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12:19 AM
> Have you ever wished you could follow the logic of your teenager to better understand some conclusion he or she has drawn?
this is clearly a personal attack, i am so offended
It says you can also reverse the roles...
@Bookworm By the way, we have a Thomas MIddleton topic challenge suggestion.
Anyway, I should be in bed.
why does the tsundoku stay up late?
Blame The Witch and Macbeth ;-)
casts a sleeping curse on Tsundoku
12:32 AM
@Tsundoku yeah I upvoted that months ago and I'm sad it's sitting at two votes. Middleton slaps.
12:51 AM
Probably downvoted by the resident Shakespeare fanatics.
1:21 AM
@Bookworm HNQ
2 hours later…
3:29 AM
I finally went through and upvoted all the Topic Challenge posts I liked
@NapoleonWilson I thought I was one of the resident Shakespeare fanatics and Tsundoku one of the others ... he proposed it, I upvoted it ... I think it's the Shavian freaks :-)
Actually I just looked. It has one upvote (mine).
It also has mine!
3:50 AM
@bobble Oh it's sitting at one upvote now. Someone must have downvoted I guess
You can see vote breakdowns
Click in between the voting arrows
Also, I just got a Necromancer badge from that thread ... I had no idea community wiki posts were eligible for badges even
@bobble I learn sth new every day. Yup, two upvotes, one downvote. At least on that thread one wishes downvoters would share their reasoning .... Randolph always does.
It's actually a privilege - Established User - awarded at 750 rep
(why they didn't name it "see vote counts" is beyond me)
3 hours later…
6:38 AM
You didn't know you can do thar? It's one of the most important privileges.
7:37 AM
@verbose Here's an example of a "the author doesn't really care, it's just a bad novel" answer, although it wasn't particularly well-received (no votes either way).
@Tsundoku That question went HNQ but not for very long.
@verbose I don't always :-) In fact, funnily enough, I just checked and I was the downvoter on the Middleton proposal! Nothing against him or his works, I just don't feel that classic English literature is in the spirit of "getting outside our site's main domains of interest" that topic challenges are supposed to be. (Neither is William Blake, which I proposed back in 2017, I'll readily admit.)
@NapoleonWilson s/most/least
@Randal'Thor I think our site's main domains of interest appear to be Tolkien, Rand, Shakespeare, and a few other well-worn authors. I think it's fine to focus on relatively obscure topics or authors even if they are within the Anglo-American tradition. If our visitors aren't reading Ko Un, they're not reading Middleton either.
Also, Andrew sent me a bunch of screen caps from the BNA that in fact does show a superstition around Macbeth dating back to the 1920s, so that answer is due for another revision, this time reverting to the 1920s claim of the original. Sigh.
8:04 AM
Afterall, if the topic challenge is something exotic like Fontane or Maltesian murals of the 2nd century, you only really got Rand alThor and bobble asking questions about it anyway, the same people who'd ask 5 questions against eachother every day no matter the topic.
@verbose I'd better read the current version before it disappears then ;-)
8:19 AM
@Randal'Thor but you can always read through the edits, right? I guess that's why the winky face. Oh well. Ignore me.
2 hours later…
10:08 AM
@NapoleonWilson The question askers are not the only ones who read the works, it's also those who post answers. But the answerers aren't listed in the topic challenge summaries on Meta.
Renaissance England is a different culture than 21st-century England - or any 21st-century country. "The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there" (L. P. Hartley)
10:34 AM
@Tsundoku that is a shattering novel. I enjoyed hartleys stories and then read the go-between. It was so heartbreaking I couldn’t bring myself to read the pimp and the alimony
*shrimp *anemone fucking autocorrect
but I’m older now maybe I’ll feel differently
3 hours later…
2:03 PM
@Tsundoku Call it my personal voting habit on topic challenge proposals then :-) It's just a downvote, I'm not trying to disallow anything.
2:23 PM
@verbose I know they are eligible because I have a bronze nice answer badge for scifi.stackexchange.com/a/146188/4918 . It's basically a trophy that I hold in my display for the whole community, because it's a lot of other users who did the actual identification, I just helped collect them into a single post.
I edited some of the identification into it based on chat and the other answer and comments, but also other users edited identifications directly into it.
scifi.stackexchange.com/a/153285/4918 is my other such community wiki, no badge I think, and most of the costumes not identified.
2 hours later…
4:16 PM
Every time I see a HNQ post from Space Exploration about Perseverance, for a split second I think it's a question about Preservation.
Would you like me to ask such a question?
@Randal'Thor Snort
Close votes appear to have aged away for this question (or it got closed and reopened; no way to tell without an edit history)
@bobble There's an edit history, just click the clock on the left.
ah, nice!
4:20 PM
Isn't it nice to click the clock?
> "I can't rick out, with my click out" -- Alcinja
isn't it "Alconja"?
yes, and "rock" and "clock"
@bobble For extra points, ask on Space Exploration about the Preservation of Perseverance, how fast it might decay/corrode over there.
Should the tag be ? (It's on one question, which is on the front page, so swapping out the tags would be easy)
I kept the middle name because the question and Wikipedia did, but now finding his author's site it is just www.benjaminsaenz.com
5:17 PM
@Randal'Thor Before the clock icon, we just entered the URL for the edit history meta.stackexchange.com/q/76566/222298
@b_jonas I used to do that too, but it's easier now.
By the way, I got Os Lusíadas from a library, but I haven't yet started to read it. I might not have the patience to read the whole thing, depending on how pleasant the text is, but I'll read at least some of it.
In which language?
5:50 PM
@Randal'Thor If it is just your personal preference, shouldn't we edit the guidelines for voting? They are currently formatted as if they represented a quote from a community decision, which is misleading, IMHO.
@Randal'Thor Hungarian. It's a modern translation.
@bobble Based on his home page at Schimon Schuster I would keep the middle name. www.benjaminsaenz.com has only a temporary page, so I wouldn't use that as guidance for the moment.
@b_jonas see, all y’all know so much about how this site works
I never expected this short answer about Bool-var to become one of the three highest-voted answers I have ever contributed to Lit SE.
I had only ever used the clock to check in on the outcomes of reviews (Suggested Edits, LQP, etc.)
6:02 PM
@Tsundoku Sure sure.
yesterday, by Tsundoku
@Bookworm A boolean variable, surely? :-P
Remember who SE's core userbase is. ;-)
@NapoleonWilson Yep, I wanted to quote that back to you before you edited it ;-)
@Tsundoku Well, those were always the guidelines written on meta, since user20 started the topic challenge program and created a vision for it back in 2017. My rebooted meta post copies that part from the original one.
When you said "Narrowing it down [...] is something that I can't remember discussing", I conceded that not everyone has to vote according to those guidelines - I do, but if a piece of classic English literature makes it to the top of the list, it'll certainly be selected rather than disqualified - but it was always part of the advisory guidelines for voting on topic challenge proposals.
6:18 PM
Well, in that case, I'm adding that L. P. Hartley quote to my Middleton suggestion.
@bobble By the way, that was a very helpful spell. The witches were powerless against it :-)
@bobble Hello Smimi, I'm Rand.
@bobble Spelling wasn't very regular in those days, but still ... ;-)
@Randal'Thor I fear you have mistaken me, good sir, for I am but a humble bobble
6:22 PM
Better than a bumble hobble (aka a bee with a missing leg).
Do not hurt thyself, dearest Mith! No danger am I in.
Oh dear. Lynn's infected bobble.
I assure you, I am in the pink of health.
@PrinceNorthLæraðr you have a lot to answer for
6:27 PM
you've infected bobble
What a slanderous accusation! Why dost thou not trust my words? I hath no infection.
(grumble grumble I changed tense halfway though writing the sentence and forgot to fix it)
7:00 PM
And in which tense would "thy" have worked there? ;-)
@bobble "hath" is third-person, not first-person.
@Mithical Lynn?
An author, perchance?
an RPG character of North's
Bah, I'm not good at old English
Perhaps I should scurry away in shame
Verily, if thou hast turned a rocket-propelled grenade into a character, then should I salute thee for thy fertile imagination.
@bobble don't worry, I'm not good at it either
7:07 PM
Marry, younglings, then sit you down upon yonder tussock and take heed.
The suffix -(e)st doth succeed the verb in the case of second-person singular, while the suffix -(e)th doth play a similar role in the case of third-person singular.
I know, thou knowest, he/she/it knoweth.
I do, thou dost, he/she/it doth.
I have, thou hast, he/she/it hath.
Now we run into the problem of "bobble doesn't know the name of grammar things"
You know what a second person is, though?
My knowledge of grammar is more instinctive "that looks wrong" than "oh, there is a disagreement between the tense of the predicate and the noun phrase" (note: I have no idea what either of those things are)
@NapoleonWilson it's when you've got one person and someone gives you another
Another way today's youth oft err is the declension of the second-person singular pronoun. "Thou" is nominative (subject), "thee" is accusative/dative (object), "thy"/"thine" is genitive (possessing).
Fie upon thee, for thou hast done me wrong. I declare thy mother a hamster, and thy father passed unto thee the scent of elderberries that thou dost now possess.
7:11 PM
Speaking a branch of Germanic that hasn't simplified all thse things away already either helps with these Old English things, too.
clop clop clop clop clop
@bobble Zounds, then 't seems thou hast the appearance of a natural speaker of this strange tongue.
More of a reader. I have a larger reading vocabulary than speaking vocabulary
That makes sense.
Speaking is active and reading is passive. You probably also have a much bigger hearing vocabulary than speaking vocabulary.
I also have some speech problems that make certain words hard or impossible to pronounce
7:17 PM
@bobble Old English? Early Modern English! (Shakespeare) Or Middle English! (Chaucer) Sorry, the pedant force is strong in this one.
time machine noises
Also true.
There, now I'm back to speaking modern English.
insert Beowulf
@Tsundoku TBF, she said "old English" not "Old English" - it could be just an ordinary adjective :-)
7:19 PM
I am such a pedant that I even listed thou, thee etc. in the list of pronouns on my profile :-P
Oh, that can easily be construed as trolling, though. Pronouns aren't a joking matter.
I give them options. Surely that's not trolling?
@NapoleonWilson And I have a complaint form, which you should really try if you haven't already ;-)
Oh, I'm not complaining, you do what you think is best.
7:42 PM
Q: What does "I ween that you are better where you are" in "The Heart of the Raven" mean?

MithicalThe chorus of the song "The Heart of the Raven" by the German band MONO INC. goes like this: But here in the raven's heart Your heart is beating on I ween that you are better where you are You're here in the raven's heart No matter where you've gone I'm sure that you are there among the stars T...

Since when have archaic words not had a higher "poetic quality"? ;-)
Since they weren't archaic?
Probably, yes. That would be an inverted "since", though.
8:29 PM
@bobble creeping ahead of @CowperKettle in the rep leagues with tag wiki edits ...
Q: "My father declared he should invent a slip button"

QuuxplusoneFrom Lady Saba Holland's memoir of her father the Rev. Sydney Smith, published circa 1855: The reigning bore at this time in Edinburgh was ——; his favourite subject, the North Pole. It mattered not how far south you began, you found yourself transported to the north pole before you could take br...

darn, didn't edit in time
anyhow, I'm open to suggestions on the work tag I just added, and I'm pretty sure we don't use time-period tags so I took the liberty of removing it
@Rand al' i've been ranting every word i know in English trying to get your attention you know where. Word of the day "quiescent."
Sorry I haven't been around your neck of the woods for a while.
But that is a good word.
8:35 PM
A herd of giraffes putting their heads together might look like a small wood, but there's no wood of necks in my neck of the woods.
A long neck at that. With a good head on shoulders. Just wanted to say hello.
And knew where to find you.
Back to my hidey hole. Sorry to interrupt.
8:53 PM
Does this "Sign of the Times" question have too many different questions? Or would they be related somehow?
Also, not sure if either or would work
Q: What is the main idea behind Thomas Carlyle's "Signs of the Times"?

ParoxyiaWhat is the main idea behind Thomas Carlyle's "Signs of the Times" (1829)? What is the literary and sociopolitical background of the essay? Is he just mirroring the 19th century sentiments or there is something beyond what is obvious?

^ that one
Or even /. As you can probably tell, I'm confused what the question is asking
I'm slightly confused too, but it seems at least plausible that all the sub-questions tie together.
Any tag ideas?
9:01 PM
It's too broad. I VdTC
"What is the main idea behind this work" is always too broad.
Isn't that what the tag is for? A broad review of a work?
Though the essay is too long for a proper close reading
@bobble Old English is not the same as Shakespearean English, which is Early Modern English.
2 hours ago, by Rand al'Thor
@Tsundoku TBF, she said "old English" not "Old English" - it could be just an ordinary adjective :-)
@Tsundoku I'm always tempted to put "I / me / my" as my pronouns but I'm worried I'll get yelled at for trolling. Seriously, though, they are my pronouns. I don't use any others in reference to myself. Not the royal We, not the third person.
@Bookworm It would probably be good if I could write a nice comment welcoming the OP and asking them to clarify exactly what they're asking; probably offer tags at the same time. However I do not have the bandwidth to write such a comment at the moment.
9:13 PM
@Randal'Thor And wherefore hast thou omitted thine from thy exposition?
@bobble What's the main idea behind the comment you would like to write? You may describe it in old English.
9:30 PM
@Tsundoku "I 'ave no effin' i-dea wha' yer askin'. T-me, there's a mite too many questions in yer post."
All you need to do is add a smiley face and it's ready to go.
Anyway, I'm going to repeat that spell from yesterday, but a few hours earlier than usual.
sleep, tsundoku, sleep!
g'nite Strobby 😴
10:11 PM
> Our plans for your first fall at <university name>
(subject line of an email)
I... don't think you thought the implications of that line through

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