The Awkward Silence - 2020-11-05

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IPS Comment Bot

1:27 AM

I love this - agile methodology, relationship edition: Breaking chores into achievable, measurable sub-tasks; pulling them off the backlog; and getting them done! — Stej 2 mins ago

#26382 Stej (306 rep) | A: Could keeping score help in conflict resolution? (score: 23) | posted 35 hours ago by days_of_fun (346 rep) | Toxicity 0.07520447 | tps/fps: 0/0

Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]

2 hours later…

Extroverted Main Man

3:17 AM

0

Q: I know everything problem!

One of my close family member(younger than me) believes that he knows everything, he never take suggestions from others also he do whatever he likes. If he fails he never talk, will cry but never takes suggestion from others to improve, suppose for example if he fails in a exam he will say that q...

3 hours later…

6:18 AM

hi

@IPSCommentBot tp

IPS Comment Bot

Marked this comment as flaggable (tp). Currently marked 1tps/0fps. beep boop My human overlords won't let me flag that, so you'll have to do it yourself.

2 hours later…

8:10 AM

Morning!

Morning!

Morning.

8:29 AM

Morning people!

In today news: a coworker that I usually don't work with tried to phone me yesterday (but I was "out of the office") and sent me a "we need to talk" kind of message (without saying about what) and now I am stress even though it's very likely nothing important

(I volunteer to a brainstorming activity the other day and it's probably related to that. But I'm brain is all like "WHAT IF IT'S NOT???")

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: How do I become more sociable with someone I've only spoken to over text?

TL:DR is essentially I've been talking to this girl a lot over text and she's really nice, however she we are hanging out soon in person and I need advice about how to maintain the type of communication we have over text, in-person. not TL:DR. I'm 19, my friend group is dating another friend grou...

socializing texting

In other news, the French lockdown is a bloody joke. Companies aren't respecting the "work from home" rule (because legally they don't really have to)

And the governement seem to be acting in a "I don't want to overreact way" but they should! And if we are still on lockdown by Christmas, it will definitively be their fault

Oh this "we need to talk" is anxiety fuel for people with imagination ;_;

@lila Yeah! I honestly don't know anyone for whom it's not stressful

We had announced that we get to "national quarantine" as they called it, and it will or will not be introduced depending on number of cases per 100.000.

8:38 AM

@lila Those "will or will not" are stressful too

@Ael Haha yes it's annoying ;_;

8:51 AM

I am currently hating my coworker who still isn't here and didn't tell me what this talk was supposed to be about!

Journeyman Geek

._.

9:08 AM

"I need to talk to you" without specifying "about XXX" should be forbidden by law! (yes, my coworker is still not here and I am slightly losing it)

:(

Journeyman Geek

and then it turns out to be nothing

"yea i wanted to ask you if you could give me 1 or 2 pencils ..."

we sometimes say we need to talk in our setting for when we need knowledge of someone on a given subject to continue

@JourneymanGeek It is very likely nothing. It's just that it is possibly something (like 10% chances that it is something) and my mind is now convinced that it is about this 10% something (am I making any sense? I feel like I don't but maybe it's just me)

Journeyman Geek

9:26 AM

/me suspects... potatos.

So, I was both right and wrong. It was about this "10% topic" but it also... wasn't? Anyway, there was no reason for me to be so stress and a heads-up about the topic would have been really nice

Journeyman Geek

It would

Well if hes a coworker I imagine its worth disclosing subject because he wouldn't discuss HR anyway. If the subject is HR it could be a bit more difficult to say in front of others "by the way, we need to talk about your departure"

9:42 AM

But if it's coworker on the same position and not someone on superior position, then they wouldn't talk about departure, I don't think peers on the same level would be messengers of departure news.

That's what i meant, although maybe phrasing was not the best

oh ok

I failed at inclusive language also because i said it's a "he" while there is no evidence it is.

She is no more and I never got guts to talk to her. If anyone else in the same situation it's better to talk before it's too late. — Gauche 19 secs ago

I didn't even notice that thing with inclusive language :o

so don't worry it's ok

Journeyman Geek

9:57 AM

:(

@AnkitSharma So sad :'(

@ArthurHv It's someone in another "department" but who is also the "head representation of employees". So when I talk with them, it's sometimes about work and it's sometimes about more "personal stuff" that are linked to the workplace

That's why I was so stressed. I don't like "personal stuff" discussions

@AnkitSharma (I just now realizing that you are the OP). Was it covid? Or something else? Do you want to talk about it?

10:21 AM

@Ael suicide but I don't have much details

We were not in touch so heard from my family member what happened

@AnkitSharma I was fearing that. It's very common for trans people to die that way. Especially when they are rejected by their family

There is no point in guilting yourself from not being closer and not getting in touch. You don't know if you could have changed anything. And now it's done, regret bring nothing good anyway

Maybe a lesson that I should be more approachable to people I care for

@AnkitSharma I don't want to burden you, but I don't think being "more approachable" would be enough. People who are depressed tend to close themself from the world. They have a hard time seeking help when they need it. If you want to actively prevent anything like that in the future, you will need to go out of your way to check on people and to often send them reassurance that you love them, you care for them and that they have value, that they deserve to be loved and to be happy.

Also, (and I know it didn't apply in your case but since we are talking about this...) if anyone is talking about suicide, even if it seems to be in a "joking" way, please take them seriously. A lot of people who attempted suicide did talk about it before hand. But people just didn't took it seriously

@AnkitSharma Don't beat yourself up over this. Suicidal thoughts are a serious mental illness, requiring a doctor. You could have been as helpful as a cup of chamomile tea against a lung infection: basically nothing you could have done would've cured this.

10:34 AM

It doesn't mean that all people talking about suicide are seriously considering it. But if someone is indeed talking about it, please be extra-careful

And I agree with Tink. You probably were in no position to prevent them from suicide. If someone is suicidal, you can prevent it short-term but you really need a doctor to actually solve the issue in the long-term

I had Suicidal thought myself in past too so i can understand that

Only thing is hearing about this for a person who you saw growing up and who tried to be there for me when it was new school for me in early childhood and I was all alone

Now when she was all alone I chicken out of the situation

Please don't poison yourself with blame, it's definitely appreciated to help other people but ultimately you aren't responsible for mental health of other people, some concerning signs are extremely subtle and definitely expected to be missed if you aren't a professional therapist, it is each person's own responsibility to let themselves be helped in the long run if the remission of their mental disorder is to be stable.

And hearing my own mother being insensitive to this and have so cold shoulder for lgbt community when I am gay myself

@AnkitSharma I'm so sorry to hear that :/

She refered sex change with a hindi word called "kaand" which means scandal in more bad way

10:43 AM

@AnkitSharma I think, what is important to remember is that, yes they are things you can do as an individual to prevent that from happening. But ultimately, what one person can do is very limit when the rest of society (and even your own family) reject you

Agreed

@AnkitSharma Some people put sex change and and homosexuality in different bags. It doesn't necessarily mean your mother rejects you

I know the society is too slow to change on transphobia for me as well, but it just takes time

@ArthurHv she got only one bag to put it all, I know it and planning to come out soon

Society supposed to be the support system but end up being a mess

My mom's reaction when I came out was kind of funny. Over the time she accepted it though. The sooner you come out the sooner it can happen

She told me "I hope it's not your last invention to piss me off"

@AnkitSharma That's why I love internet so much. Thanks to it, I get to hang out in private and safe places were everyone is LGBT+ and/or autistic like me. It's probably one of the main reason I have barely any depression left anymore

10:49 AM

@AnkitSharma There are... different parts of society that can lend support for different things. I have friends to support me when my parents won't. I hope you can have that too :)

@ArthurHv lol sorry sound funny 😂

@Tinkeringbell I do but being a dumb human you look out for family acceptance first

I do have a dream of gay wedding with my bf with family and friends around but it seems I might end up marrying in Canadian court for document purpose

And I do hope you get that too, but if it's not a realistic outcome, there isn't really much use in getting your hopes up.

Better be positively surprised than disappointed.

@AnkitSharma I know some people who did a "proper" marriage ceremony 15 years after they actually got married. Maybe you could do that too?

@Tinkeringbell yes

@Ael I am up for that

11:05 AM

@AnkitSharma I translated a bit of a Dutch song for you. It was written by Herman Finkers, and I think you'll like his train of thought ;)

Having an enemy isn't so bad, you can handle that.
But when your friend starts hitting
An enemy, love him steadily, forgive him everything,
Because he doesn't know what he's doing, while a friend realizes full well.

An enemy hits you, that's what he's your enemy for.
You turn the other cheek, you feel like a saint, and live will just go on.
An enemy does what he is for, it's the friend that will betray you.

You are so sad you could die, and Peter's eyes are getting tired.
While you are bleeding from pure fear your apostle is the most scared

11:32 AM

Lol @Tinkeringbell

3 hours later…

IPS Comment Bot

2:05 PM

I know people acting like that just because they seek attention, and think they'll make more friends because it makes them soooo clever and coool. They just don't realize how annoying this can be, or they would change their attitude, I know for sure :/ Then, in OP's case, family member denies the existing problem, it doesn't mean they're narcissistic. What makes you think that? (so the -1 for me, sorry...) — OldPadawan 1 min ago

#26396 OldPadawan (19370 rep) | A: I know everything problem! (score: -2) | posted 1 hours ago by Astralbee (26677 rep) | Toxicity 0.43589994 | tps/fps: 0/0

Matched regex(es) ["+1"]

@IPSCommentBot tp

IPS Comment Bot

Marked this comment as flaggable (tp). Currently marked 1tps/0fps. beep boop My human overlords won't let me flag that, so you'll have to do it yourself.

I am wondering, this is quite side to that, what evidence we have regarding the prevalence of narcissism personality disorder ?

I see people calling others narcissist left and right, but that sound quite difficult to establish and statistically unlikely in general

For example the evidence is all around social media, we tend to take photos of things that are the most important for us because we focus the most of our time on these most important things, and a lot of social media profiles if you look them up then you see profiles with hundreds and thousands of photos and almost all or all of them are selfies, that means that the most important thing for them is themselves. I don't say whether it's good or bad, just how it is.

@lila Yeah, but that's not what is called "narcissism personality disorder"

2:16 PM

yea I'm more interested into the later kind, people that supposedly manipulate others for their benefit, lack empathy etc. etc. what I believe was called sociopathy or psychopathy at some point

@lila why did ya flag as tp?

@CaldeiraG Because it had -1 and was a lot chatty, isn't that unwelcome or am I missing something? It should be fp?

@lila There is a question at the end that would improve the answer, so I think it should be a valid comment

Ael said it all

it is a legitimate question

(though, it's true that it's also a bit too chatty)

2:18 PM

ok

@IPSCommentBot fp

IPS Comment Bot

Switching feedback from tp to fp. Currently marked 0tps/1fps

@IPSCommentBot People with low self-esteem can act like that too. It doesn't mean that they are narcissist (it's easier to acknowledge that you are wrong when you have high self-esteem)

@ArthurHv Manipulating others for benefit is not narcissism, it's machiavelism.

@IPSCommentBot good bot :P

obs: bot will only reply (15% chance) if you reply to a comment

@IPSCommentBot for example

IPS Comment Bot

@CaldeiraG You're telling me.

2:22 PM

well XD

But they are often present together, with the third thing you mentioned psychopathy which is decreased empathy, they form dark triad.

@lila Not in the terminology for medical science, it names something quite specific. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder but then you have people that call others narcissistic for the reason they just try to manipulate things vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/questions/2192/…

@CaldeiraG I'm trying to help but sometimes I do this automatically and I make mistakes, s o r r y for i n c o n v e n i e n c e ;_;

@lila no problem, it's not gonna do much if you don't flag the comment itself :P

@CaldeiraG Oh okay, but as I understand our responses make the bot learn something, don't they? I don't want to teach the robot to be dumb ;_;

2:26 PM

@lila that's the point of the bot :P

to learn

based on feedback

@CaldeiraG You're telling me.

Though, for now, the bot doesn't really learn anything

@ips by the way, cat please?

IPS Comment Bot

user image

@IPSCommentBot Meh, maybe another cat?

IPS Comment Bot

user image

2:28 PM

Ah, better!

@ArthurHv ok I'm not medical professional ;_;

@Ael You're telling me.

@lila What else is new?

(that's probably not the right phrasing, but I don't remember it ^^)

@Ael well, i'm no expert in ruby or machine learning so yeah x)

@Ael that's probably the right phrasing

@CaldeiraG Oh, I wasn't saying that for you ^^ I think the bot is good enough as it is. So unless someont really wants to play with it, we don't actually need it to learn

@CaldeiraG It's okay, I am observing and I definitely see that the bot is smarter now than before, trust me, it works.

2:35 PM

@Ael yea true

@lila eheh sure does

@lila Question was maybe a bit too specific to be answered by non-professionals yes :p

@ExtrovertedMainMan If anyone has a moment of energy to spare, this question could really use some eyeballs

What do you think this site could do to get people to moderate these types of questions a bit better?

@ArthurHv With good enough Google skills, I believe you could find an answer

yea well i browsed wikipedia and found satisfying information

@ArthurHv See, it means that I could have answered you if I was currious enough ^^

@Tinkeringbell IMO, IPS looks a bit like a gosht town lately. What we lack is "humanpower" (eg: more people willing to moderate). I'm not sure asking the current people who are moderating would be enough to "moderate better"

(Or maybe I'm just pessimistic)

@ArthurHv By the way, what's the answer? What part of the population actually has Narcisism? 5% ? 1% ? Less?

2:42 PM

less than 1%. Also not all narcissist are sadists.

which mean the real dangerous people there are like maybe 1 out of a thousand

@Ael Yeah it may be too quiet... but I know you and Arthur at least can close vote, and Caldeira can flag... and I don't like calling people out but... I often feel the chat is busier than the site, while I had hoped chat would keep an eye on site too.

Do you think lowering the amount of needed close votes may help? We can request/discuss that on site meta, but a more informal discussion here seems nice too...

@Tinkeringbell I'm guilty of that too. I don't read as many posts (questions and answers) as I use to. Lately, the only questions I will read for sure are the ones related to LGBT+ and mental health. As for all the other questions? I guess it will depend of my mood and at what hour of the day they are posted

I have to say i haven't been on the main site for a while XD

:D I love all the chattiness in here, and how people bond, don't get me wrong...

But it often seems to drown out the more serious 'site' business like organizing a bit around moderating newest questions.

I usually browse question for answering and not exhaustively, moderation isn't my core aim. Some questions slip through... I also get a bit tired that we have to recall manually every newcomer this isn't just a site to know what to text to your date.

2:50 PM

@Tinkeringbell I just took a look at the most "recent" closed question (going back a little more than month) and in all of them except one (1 out of 8) we needed the help of a mod to close it. So yeah, I think lowering the number of needed close vote would help

Somehow I think that the site format is ill-suited for what we try to achieve. We give people plaintext area to speak about their problems, so they just fill with what matters to them and not what's a good question.

IPS is also not a profession or a hobby and getting "specialist" feel bogus.

Even though don't get me wrong I think some respected poster are actually knowledgeable in it.

@ArthurHv I do believe that I am (somehow unfortunately) specialist in IPS questions related to mental health, LGBT+ issues and autism. But that's not a knowledge I could have choose to learn. It's just that life happened and now I know about this. I mean, as much as I read about romantic relationship, I will probably never know enough to answer a question about this (unless I have some other experience not related to the area that could help)

I don't think it is mutually exclusive to chat and to moderate, I feel more as IPS is blessed with active chat than cursed with lack of moderation, also the chat feels more relaxed and doesn't require conscious mental effort as moderation, you just witnessed an example of this as I made sub-optimal response to the IPS Comment Bot because I was in "chat mood" and not focused.

But I am coming from a small village named Pets SE and maybe I have a bit narrow viewpoint? :D

@lila No thats also true when I relax from working i just prefer chatting than moderating.

3:07 PM

@ArthurHv True, and I'm working on a post to discuss what we can do to improve that a little.

@Tinkeringbell Yay. I'll be happy to contribute

3:20 PM

0

Q: How to encourage questions to actually focus on the 'interacting' part of Interpersonal Skills?

Arthur summarized most of the problem very well in chat: We give people plaintext area to speak about their problems, so they just fill with what matters to them and not what's a good question. I can confirm this. Recently, it seems, IPS has seen more bad and mediocre questions than good ones. ...

discussion featured questions

Okay so I did a bad thing and skipped on the last 30 minutes of work to finish that for you.

Now be distracted too!

:D

If someone cares: I put the featured tag on it so perhaps it will be more visible to newer people on the site... there seem to be a few around. :)

Introverted Meta Man

3:55 PM

1

Q: How to encourage questions to actually focus on the 'interacting' part of Interpersonal Skills?

Arthur summarized most of the problem very well in chat: We give people plaintext area to speak about their problems, so they just fill with what matters to them and not what's a good question. I can confirm this. Recently, it seems, IPS has seen more bad and mediocre questions than good ones. ...

discussion featured questions

3

4:26 PM

@Tink I just notice that we don't have a link to the sandbox in interpersonal.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic. Maybe we should add one at the end? (in the part where we suggest users to pop in chat if they don't know if there question is on topic or not)

5:14 PM

@Ael Could do that, yes! Can you put it on the meta please?

5:42 PM

I starred this, you could also star this to elevate in right down panel.

6:03 PM

@Tinkeringbell I just put it as an answer (a very short one with almost no explaination. Sorry about that ^^')

@Ael No worries! The thread is for gathering ideas so if you have any more, just put them up :)

If I need more explanation to see its merits, I will ask.

@Tinkeringbell I have another one but that one would need SE would be a feature request (I'm going to post it tomorow because I can't remember in which site I saw it done). It would be about making an improvement to this page: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/ask (SE has worked a lot on it recently so I figured it migjt be worth a shot)

@Ael Yay! It's always good to get feedback so this makes me happy :)

6:21 PM

Okay people I'm a bit confused at interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/26361/1599 ... Anyone here that can tell me what I wrote wrong?

It's gotten two silent downvotes but I can't see why.

It wasn't me, promise ;_;

I'm not asking who it was XD I'm trying to figure out how to improve the answer :P

@Tinkeringbell Because Tim Post lost his keys :p

@Tinkeringbell Oh then it's okay because I don't even know who it was, but I know who it wasn't ;_; and I also know that it wasn't my mom because she doesn't know English, and it wasn't my dad because he doesn't know how to use a computer ;_; sorry, maybe you are not in the mood for jokes ;_;

@lila Well, maybe it was your cat

6:34 PM

If we just ignore the fact that I don't have a cat (which is sad) then it even makes sense :D okay, who was the second downvote then?

@lila Hahaha jokes are always good :) I just didn't see the joke in the first one XD I always say that stuff when I feel slightly attacked :P

7:34 PM

Didn't see any reason to downvote that, there is maybe something that sound defensive toward OP: " And on your side, from your description of yourself I don't mind believing that the 'negative feedback' they're not taking well might have been delivered totally wrong."

that part could magnet downvotes maybe, that's the only thing

Thanks! I'll get onto that then :)

7:50 PM

> And on your side, from your description of yourself there's a real chance your social awkwardness didn't help.

Better, @Arthur ?

8:02 PM

yea better

well i imagine at least, im not really so sure it was that

could have been grief from previous post you did as a moderator also

Yeah... I dunno. Usually I get 1, not 2 ;)

8:46 PM

| This post is hidden. It was deleted just now by a modulator <> . |
/\ |How to win friends, influence people, be
-4 |successful in interpersonal relations? Let's
\/ |begin the discussion, write your comments
. . |in the answers below.

[friends] [awkward-situations]

wut

Plis don't downvote plis ;_;

Stop downvoting yourself :D

:D

9:09 PM

Did you know that sunlight (or more specifically, UV-B light) is the only thing that is confirmed to be both carcinogenic and beneficial at the same time? It's not joke by the way, it's serious.

And thanks for star I'm glad you liked my dumb joke :D

1 hour later…

10:13 PM

@lila Sure, but not both at the same time AFAIK

You have UVA, UVB and UVC. I'll leave the rest for the discreet googler

I just gave an astrophysics talk in another chat and I feel exhausted

@M.A.R. I didn't mean both at the same time, you are correct ^.^

@M.A.R. Okay what chat room so I could read it?

@M.A.R. UV-C is in sunlight, but it doesn't reach Earth surface.

@M.A.R. Okay I found it, it's in English Language room.

Wow okay, no wonder you feel exhausted.

@lila Oh just ELU chat

I think it's interesting that, as I've read, people with certain diseases were studied and they had lowered vitamin D levels but supplementing vitamin D didn't resolve the problem, it was actually lack of sunlight that was the cause, it turns out that sunlight has more benefits than just facilitating vitamin D synthesis.

@lila Hmm, I haven't studied the mechanism, but it sounds perfectly possible

10:29 PM

@M.A.R. Okay so in short, for example, sunlight elevates level of nitric oxide, the signaling molecule, where it shines. I know that it dilates blood vessels and thus reduces blood pressure, I've read that medical nitroglycerin also works by being a substrate for NO production.

That's pretty interesting

Yeah, they call agents like NO "vasodilators"

When plaques form in vascular walls and the endothelia can no longer secrete NO, it's often the main cause of atherosclerosis and some forms of stenosis

@M.A.R. I am sneakily watching you and reading your messages on ELL chat but it is too late for me to focus on understand, this late my brain turns off for physics ^.^

Otherwise it would have been possible for endothelial cells to work around the plaque and regulate blood flow

@M.A.R. I am happy you think so, and I'd guess so, I remember you are on medical studies after all ^.^

@M.A.R. I didn't know this, it's also interesting, I never thought about how it forms on more detailed level.

@lila This stuff is exactly what I'm studying this semester

10:36 PM

@M.A.R. Oh nice, I didn't know! But do you mean vasolidators, or the mechanism underlying arteriosclerosis?

Both

Just not the sunlight mechanism

ok nice ^.^

10:51 PM

@M.A.R. Oh and by the way that study I've read about was actually based on cases from Iran! It was about an enormous increase of multiple sclerosis cases after Iranian Revolution that changed the way people dress in a way that greatly decreased skin exposure to sunlight.

@lila That study sounds a bit biased

I would be cautious of trying to further political agendas and make it seem like science.

Iranians are often just D-deficient. I haven't researched this thoroughly myself to see whether it has to do with our diet, but I suspect it might be the cause. And I'd believe that, far more important than hijab, urbanization and more indoor lifestyles would be responsible for lack of sun exposure.

@M.A.R. Maybe it is, I don't know, I'm not saying whether it was or not I'm just recalling what I've read.

@M.A.R. I'm not familiar with Iranian politics and I didn't even know it could be seen as promoting a certain agenda ;_;

To prove that hijab has had a significant effect one should compare MS incidences between irreligious women that had to wear chador after the revolution with religious folks that continued with the same clothes

But that data would probably be very hard to obtain

@lila Oh, I don't mean you, but the people who conducted that study.

@M.A.R. oh ok ^.^

I found this smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/…

And yeah, they do seem biased.

Iranian folks who've emigrated, like Ms. Pakpoor here, don't tend to have a good experience of Iran; that's why they emigrated in the first place! . . . for political or religious reasons. It's kinda a conflict of interest anyway.

But anyway, attributing a spike in cases in Isfahan from 2005 to 2009 to chador doesn't seem to make much sense, does it? People were required to wear chador since 1979, and they've even gotten a bit laxer

For all I know better hygiene might explain it adequately

11:31 PM

I think I understand, thanks for info, as I see it was a lot deeper than I assumed and there is a lot of information to be missed for anyone who is, like me, not familiar with Iranian politics.

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