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1:05 AM
Easy solution someone upvote it and someone else downvote so the asker gets a rep increase but the score doesn't change :P (disclaimer yes I am joking please don't do this)
1 hour later…
2:17 AM
i think a lot of people are going to be getting +1s as we handle the flags
It depends on whether people downvote answers they flag.
I don't, usually, on the grounds that there's no point in downvoting if it's going to be deleted anway.
If a flag doesn't result in deletion of the answer, and I still think it's invalid, then I downvote it.
In any case, most of the answers I flag have a score of more than 2 and have been around for more than 2 months, so I wouldn't get a +1 anyway
What's our site policy on (near-) duplicate/identical answers?
I remember that we allowed them to both exist but I can't find the meta consensus post for that.
2:59 AM
@HyperNeutrino This?
@DLosc Ah. Yes, precisely that. Not sure how I didn't find it with such a clear title, maybe I just accidentally scrolled past it and missed it. Thanks!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You're welcome.
3:15 AM
@HyperNeutrino no, you're not JoKing.
You're HyperNeutrino
Gosh. Why do so many people claim to be one of our new moderators?
sigh it's been forever since I've used this, but it's time to bring it back
@Lyxal ಠ_ಠ
@HyperNeutrino that's a bold thing to say to someone who's profile picture used to be a Lenny face
@Lyxal But HyperNeutrino is one of our new moderators, don't you see. ;)
@DLosc oh
Of course
I meant to say "a specific new moderator with a username that sounds like a joke"
yeah. I was joking but I'm not joking, I was joking about being joking and I understand you were joking but I am one of the new moderators but not joking
3:20 AM
Well played
i never know how to react to name jokes
oh wait i know
@JoKing really? come on you must be joking, right?
They truly are joking
@Lyxal oh it did? n i c e
@HyperNeutrino but then I switched to Flowey because reasons
3:22 AM
undertale yay
3:40 AM
that was a fun read
congrats to our new mods!
4:00 AM
Thanks :)
Wheat Wizard is missing out on all this flag resolving goodness
That's their fault for not being online right now
Should I flag some stuff for them? :D
Lol yes (disclaimer: I'm not JoKing but I am having a joke)
I can't physically watch more than like a minute or two of the presidential debate at once it's actually so dumb xD
4:13 AM
I've been paying more attention to this mod election. At least the candidates here are trying to help, rather than gain power for some faceless political party
@RedwolfPrograms I actually get to vote in the CGCC election
So I've paid more attention here too
Even if I were old enough to vote, I probably wouldn't. I could care less which one makes my country look stupid.
@RedwolfPrograms for me it's not a matter of not being old enough. It's rather an issue of not being American.
Yeah, that's what I expected
If you're where I'm from, you don't have much of a choice whether you vote or not
It's either vote or be fined
(i was tempted to say vote or be voted lol)
4:19 AM
By some sorcery I've heard that there's a chance I can vote though I somewhat doubt this is true; my mom mentioned this to me the other day
@HyperNeutrino how so?
For reference I'm 18 and I've lived in Canada for over 16 years
@Lyxal born in the USA xD
@HyperNeutrino that's more than I can say
the only place a US citizen can't vote is in the US
wait wdym?
4:21 AM
if you're a US citizen you can't vote if you live in Puerto Rico or Guam
Why not?
but you can still vote if you live in an entirely different country
I was asking wdym to Lyxal lol. Sorry I have a habit of not using replies
@HyperNeutrino oh
Well that's because I don't live in America or Canada
@Lyxal because they are US territories, not US states
4:22 AM
can people in DC vote?
@Lyxal Oh, okay I see lol
@HyperNeutrino I don't have any chance of voting in the US election
@JoKing that makes sense. Darn technicalities
ah, I see
Wait, territories can't vote? I wish the people who designed our government spent more time on making it work instead of just making it different from Britain
@HyperNeutrino but I will have to vote in our next election down under
@HyperNeutrino The DC has a specific exception
4:27 AM
@Lyxal Ooh, cool. Unfortunately I turned 18 the year after the election instead of right before, and so I have to wait 3 years for the next election that happens every 4 years lol
@HyperNeutrino same here
My brother will be able to vote in the federal election for his first time at the same time as my first, and we're over 3 years apart in age lol
Like pretty much exactly the same
@JoKing Oh okay. Yeah it would be really silly if people living in the literal capital couldn't vote like that would make zero sense whatsoever lol
It would make about as much sense as the "electoral college" we use
4:29 AM
haven't seen an edit rampage like this before
Don't question it just leave it be
@Razetime it's literally just retags
Lotta good questions to try out
are these all tag edits
very likely they are
didn't check
yeah, adding
4:33 AM
@HyperNeutrino there's just one where "non-competing" was removed from an answer
Oh, okay. cool
Okay I have a serious question: there was once a SEDE query that showed the top scoring golfers for an input language. Where do I find it?
did hi. make it?
i don't think so
theres a lot of em
@HyperNeutrino that's the one!
no problem :D
got the outspoken badge
@HyperNeutrino it's funny because the query is a little broken
and by little i mean for some languages it really is broken
4:52 AM
like APL
and Keg
the search results are a better way to find the real query
probably this one
has the highest views
@Razetime but they're all the same query
this one a bit different
but probably still broken
best bet is to modify and see
Oh rip. is it outdated? or was it just only correct for a few langs from the start
4:56 AM
@HyperNeutrino for example, Keg comes up with a lot of people who have never used it
the one i sent is the second version
@Razetime seems to work better
but i think it's just the original with a date constraint
@Razetime it is
4:57 AM
but somehow it works better
uhhhh. that's very strange
Make the search language Keg in both data.stackexchange.com/codegolf/query/793250/… and data.stackexchange.com/codegolf/query/865867/… and set the start date to 2019-1-1 for the second
The first link produces a whole bunch of people who haven't used Keg at all (verifiable by cgcc search)
The second link actually gives a list of people who have used Keg (verifiable because I track who's used it manually)
Albeit, there are still some flaws with the second
lotta profiles still redirect to 404
but the second one works better
which is what i wanted
so im happy
I tried modifying it and now I get 0 results
5:03 AM
Oh wow
5 hours later…
10:18 AM
@JoKing oh, so someone flagged my post ages ago and nobody got around to berating me earlier?
Q: How happy is this emoticon? (2.0)

DionOG post Task In this challenge, you will be given an string emoticon, and your task will be to output its happiness. How? An emoticon will always have eyes and mouth. It can also include eyebrows and nose. Each part will influence the overall happiness rating, which is the sum of happiness rating...

10:41 AM
@Neil Yeah, HyperNeutrino and I got round to clearing out all the pending flags today. There were only a few that didn't have a warning for invalidity already under them
thanks for folding your invalid answer into the valid one. I don't mind invalid solutions as much when they're added as footnotes to existing ones
11:05 AM
@JoKing Wow.
11:48 AM
@JoKing There was what 100 of them? That's impressive
there were quite a few autogenerated flags, either too many comments on a question or an answer being too long
did you know the user with the most autogenerated flags is stasoid? Presumably because the polyglot answers are always insanely long
That wouldn't surprise me
IIRC all of their posts on PPCG are to that challenge, and they've got ~100 posts
Man, its gonna be tough looking at WW's goofy avatar and associating that with "moderator"
at least they can't change their username anymore
Well, they're not literally restricted, but they made a comment earlier to that effect
12:06 PM
Q: Pristine Polyglots

caird coinheringaahingAs the title says, you are to create a pristine program in as many languages as possible. A pristine program, taken from here, is: Let's define a pristine program as a program that does not have any errors itself but will error if you modify it by removing any contiguous substring of \$N\$ chara...

@NewMainPosts Main, NMP is getting quick
12:31 PM
Q: Is that number a Two Bit Number™️

AJFaradayLet's start by defining a Two Bit Number™️: It is a positive integer When expressed as a binary string it has exactly 2 true bits OR When expressed as a decimal number, it has exactly 2 of the numeral one, and all other numerals are zero. Or as a sentence A Two Bit Number™️ is a number which co...

12:45 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

ZgarbFind a divisibility pattern code-golf number-theory Background Sometimes when I'm golfing a program, I'm presented with the following situation: I have an integer value \$x\$ on some fixed interval \$[a, b]\$, and I'd like to test whether it's in some fixed subset \$S \subset [a, b]\$ with as fe...

2 hours later…
2:34 PM
Can anyone chime in on an answer which reverses true and false results? (it does correctly do so, it's just that false means true and visa versa)
Would that usually be allowed?
Yeah, that's usually allowed
You can disallow it if you want to though
Well, I'm not sure, was just looking for some input. Thanks
This is the latest meta consensus I believe
@JoKing @HyperNeutrino @WheatWizard I just lost 500 rep due to forgetting to award my 3 bounties. Is that something the mods can fix?
3:17 PM
@Adám I can't find any options in the post timeline to interact with the expired bounty; however, I will ask the mod network and get back to you on if there's anything I can do. In the meantime if any of the other mods figure it out that would be great but I'll give you an update as soon as I find out.
3:36 PM
@HyperNeutrino Thanks. I don't mind redoing the bounties (I'd either need mod help due to the required amounts otherwise increasing, or have to reward something else), if can just have the rep back. (Btw, the reason I wait until the last moment is so that the community has maximum benefit of an interesting old challenge getting exposed.)
@Adám Update: bounties are generally never refunded and it's the responsibility of the user to track the expiration and a reminder and grace period are given to avoid this. Unfortunately, I can't do anything about this.
I understand why you delay rewarding bounties for exposure (I do this too) and I explained this when I asked but it seems the consensus is that it's just unfortunate and we can't do anything about it. Sorry.
Oh well, another SE policy hurting the community ¯\_(⍨)_/¯ Why am I not surprised?
@HyperNeutrino Can you at least allow me to redo the bounties with the same amounts?
3:55 PM
@Adám It seems I cannot. However, I would be willing to set bounties if you let me know which answers you wanted to give them to. Unfortunately I can't refund your reputation or reset the cap.
@HyperNeutrino Oh, that was all I was asking for. I don't care about my rep. I care about the people I promised it to actually getting it.
@HyperNeutrino 200, 200, 100.
@Adám Done :)
@HyperNeutrino Wait, does this mean you spending your personal rep?
Doesn't the reputation of moderators mean nothing?
@pppery Doesn't reputation mean nothing?
4:06 PM
@Adám Oh. Yeah, it's not something I'm doing as a moderator I'm just rewarding these answers because I want to see them be rewarded and as a fellow high(ish)-rep user it doesn't really matter to me anyway :)
@HyperNeutrino Oh wow, that's really sweet of you. (Time to go hunting for high-quality HN posts…)
@pppery I mean past 20k reputation doesn't really make a difference anymore, though for a while I cared a lot about reputation because it was an internet number that made me feel good about how much time I spent on this site lmao
but yes, as a moderator it matters even less because I don't need reputation to perform my tasks
@Adám aw haha thanks, that wouldn't be necessary but I appreciate it :)
okay now I just gotta make sure I don't forget to reward them cuz that would be... really unfortunate lol
Interesting thing about rep is that it is created by upvotes.
@HyperNeutrino Don't worry. SE will remind you ;-)
@Adám true lol :P
Huh. Yeah, reputation is an infinite resource because it can be created arbitrarily
now i'm wondering
besides upvote, accept, and affiliation, what other methods of creating reputation exist?
Accepted edits.
4:10 PM
downvotes destroy reputation and bounties keep the net reputation the same
Wait you get reputation for those? Cool, that makes sense but I guess I just forgot about that
this is probably my only opportunity to give a moderator a link to the Help Center: codegolf.stackexchange.com/help/whats-reputation
Only when your edits need review, I think.
Of course, you have 20k rep, so you can't earn any more reputation from accepted edits.
> Reputation is entirely optional
No it isn't.
@thedefault. I certainly hope I won't need help people to link me to Help for actual things I need to know, I'd like to think I can do my moderator duties to serve the community not vice versa :P but thanks, BTW
Oh wait, technically 25k is the highest privilege level, oops
@pppery I mean even just at 2k you can't anymore because your edits just go through
4:14 PM
You can still earn rep from tag wikis if you have between 2k and 20k
oh! forgot about those. yeah
oh getting 6 red flags (was there a term for that?) also destroys rep
but rarely do the users that this applies to actually have any reputation to be destroyed
@HyperNeutrino right, til2.
Of course, the other thing that destroys rep, and probably the biggest rep-destructor of them all, is users deleting their accounts.
That's true.
Heh, in theory, everyone could loose their privileges if everyone went around and removed all their upvotes…
4:17 PM
You can't unupvote inactive posts, though :(
Q: Get me back down to 1 rep!

HyperNeutrinoThis is not an invitation for you to downvote everything I've posted. Just sayin' ;) Challenge Figure out how I can get myself back down to 1 reputation. Details will follow input format, then followed by output. Input Input will consist of the my current reputation, the number of questions ...

4:51 PM
@pppery Call to arms?
Why did I just get the Mortarboard badge on Meta??
5:14 PM
@Razetime No, that's not what I meant?
oh I'm not going to get reputation notifications for the next while lol
6:00 PM
Any feedback on this?
@HyperNeutrino Why not?
@cairdcoinheringaahing Created bounties, and you don't get notifications until you've earned enough rep to offset all of that lost rep lmao
at least, I think this is how it works
Nah, you still get the little green +10s :P
But only the next day IIRC
Oh okay :P I guess it's just if your daily net rep is negative you won't get notifs in the meantime
Yeah, they don't notify you about "negative net rep changes" for a given day. So you could hit the rep cap and get a +200 bounty, but you won't get any notification if you've given a +500 bounty away that day ಠ_ಠ
6:05 PM
yeah ._. kinda wack but. oh well
@HyperNeutrino Aside from having no idea where to start, it looks good to me :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing Thanks :) Haha, me neither. I haven't even made the reference implementation yet so I still have to make that and generate sample cases lmao
Reference implementations can be tough :/
I'm currently having to work out the outputs for one of my sandboxes by hand because I have no idea how to code it :/
Oof :/ feels bad
At least I don't have to golf it lol
There is that :P
7:03 PM
CMQ: If a challenge is guaranteed to have only rational number as output, rather than real numbers, is it reasonable to require the program to work regardless of floating point errors, assuming they output as a fraction/list of numerator and denominator?
As in, perfect accuracy being required?
Yeah, but only for fractions
So floats are acceptable to fail due to f.p. issues, but fractional representations can't
Ignoring things like integer size limits on the num/denom, I'd say that rule makes sense
I can't think of any reason an answer's output as a fraction would legitimately need to be inaccurate
7:21 PM
Any feedback on this challenge?
2 hours later…
9:24 PM
do we have any word square challenges i.e. given a list of n words of length l, output l of those words so that the result is its own transpose?
1 hour later…
10:26 PM
Thoughts on this challenge proposal?
@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm looking forward to answering it
That's my feedback
While good to hear, it doesn't help me get it to the point where you can answer it :P
10:48 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing I want to give feedback, but then it might give away my plans
But I think it's in good position condition
@Lyxal not to be too serious, but if you have actual feedback, I'd prefer to hear it than have a loophole or something exploited if/when I post it
I've lost too many challenges to someone finding a loophole :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing okay say a language is incredibly hard to install locally, but is on TIO. My layer takes longer than 60s to execute hence making tio execution impossible. Is that an issue?
Or is that simply clever thinking?
@cairdcoinheringaahing also, wouldn't a post with say 100 layers really skew robber's scores if that's the only answer they crack?
Perhaps maybe there should be a limit on the number of layers
I say maybe because I would really not like it if there was a limit
If you get what I mean
@Lyxal Generally speaking, if a language is on TIO, Dennis managed to install it. If it was difficult, you can go through the talk.tryitonline chat logs to find out how :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing I guess so. So it's not an issue then?
@Lyxal Yeah, I was trying to think how to avoid an issue like that
10:54 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing because that may or may not be what I'm gonna do
@Lyxal I don't think so. Or, at least not enough of an issue to have to deal with
@Lyxal Your score as a cop is equal to the number of languages you use
So even if no robber decides to crack your 100 language monstrosity, I'd be surprised to see it win
@cairdcoinheringaahing ah I see. The less layers the better
@cairdcoinheringaahing 100 was just a general example. I was thinking more lol
Robbers can choose which answers to crack, and can take their own score into account when doing so
Besides, the main point of the scoring system is to have a somewhat fair, objective scoring criteria
If you do have one with a lot of languages, someone might look at it and go "I'mma crack that" just because of how many languages, and not even care about the score
Then again, if you have a better scoring system in mind, I'd love to hear it
10:57 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing so if I make my cop answer as unappealing as possible, I could potentially have an easy safe answer. Good to know
But not a high scoring one
@cairdcoinheringaahing no, no. The system is good! I just didn't realise it was less is more
@cairdcoinheringaahing that's right
@Lyxal If you write a fully readable and commented piece of code for a golf challenge, you'll have an easy valid answer, but not a high scoring one
@Lyxal Not challenging you to find one, dw :P Just open to suggestions
@cairdcoinheringaahing ah, but people will say "it's not competitive" and delete it. In the case of the cnr, people would (probably) leave it alone
@cairdcoinheringaahing I wasn't thinking you were pressing for a new system either. I fully think that it works well
11:02 PM
It seems like it would be really easy to find super obscure languages to use, and win easily, unless I'm misunderstanding the way it works (which I most likely am :p)
TBH tho, this one and my sandboxed pop-con aren't the next challenges on my radar. I kinda want to just post all my nice easy math-y code golf challenges before I think about my weirder ones, but basically all my sandbox challenges are weird ones :/
> It has an English Wikipedia article, an esolangs.org article or a Rosetta Code article at the time this challenge was posted, or is on Try It Online!. Having an interpreter linked in any of these pages makes that interpreter completely legal.
@RedwolfPrograms Languages do have to be on TIO/Wikipedia/esolangs, so there's a limit to how obscure you can go
There are a lot of languages on the esolang wiki, though
That's why I've given robbers 14 days instead of the standard 7 days (and I'm gonna start a chat room for robbers to discuss cracking answers)
I think that competitive cop answers will have to find a way beyond just "obscure language" in order to stay safe and still have a chance of winning
11:05 PM
I think another possible option for limiting languages used is "any languages which have been used on this site"
The problem with that is that that list isn't widely/easily available
It seemed to work for the previous two questions I based the challenge off, I don't see why it won't work for this one
Besides, in my view/experience, people tend to place less emphasis on the winning criteria, especially with non- questions, and instead try to have fun. There'll be some people who will try to win above all else (e.g. finding super obscure languages), but generally the best answers come from people's ingenuity with somewhat known languages
You're probably right. With a chatroom to work with other robbers it probably would be a lot of fun, especially if the languages chosen are just obscure enough to be tough, but not just random items from the list of esolangs.
Looking forward to when (if) you post it
Hopefully :)
TBH I'm looking forward to someone included Piet or something similar in an answer
That reminds me of a bunch of cool esolangs, but now I can't talk about them or I'll give away what I'm going to do :p
> unable to find a rpffo of this.
Me trying to spell "proof"
11:22 PM
Did you type that with your hands on the wrong sides of the keyboard :p
No, I just typed it without looking, way too fast :P
Wait, you capitalize the P in :p? Am I doing it wrong?
Personal preference I guess
Or my tongue is just slightly more rounded
:P :p ;P ;p all the same to me
11:27 PM
I see :P and ;P differently, but case of P is irrelevant :P
Fancy version is :ℙ
@cairdcoinheringaahing you think that's bad. 90% of the time when trying to get to code golf stack exchange on mobile I rely on auto correct to fill the url
Because I miss the keys so many times
E.g. Voeegolf
And it always predicts the right url
I type with two fingers, so sometimes I get misaligned and type a whole sentence iddawr vt ibw jwt
Its inconvient because the en r button is right next to things like the backspace button, the period, etc
I knownthatbsometimes while writing comments on mob8pe, I've accidenfally pressed enter too early
11:31 PM
I hate that so much...even on my laptop I'll either type a `\` by mistake before hitting enter, or hit enter while trying to delete something
Also as you can see, I also sometimes miss the spacd button completely
That, and I manage to hit the erong buttons while yyping on Mobil e too (thisnmessge had an accidengal keyboard swioe in the middle of a sentecns)
In conclusion, thank goodness for autocorrect
Because otherwise everything I say would be a garbled mess of characters
You njever realize how mucyh it;s useful util you don't have it
@RedwolfPrograms tocotru. Way too teuw
^ too true. Way too true
I think that‘s probably enough misspellings for now :P
11:36 PM
I was simply demonstrating the pains and joys of SwiftKey
@Lyxal Oh yeah, I'm awful when it comes to typing on mobile
@cairdcoinheringaahing yet I somehow manage to do 70ish% of my CGCC contributions on mobile lol
CMQ: I know this has been tried multiple times, but would people be interested in yet another attempt to clean up the Sandbox? (And I mean a full on effort, where cleaning it up is the primary focus)
What all is involved in that?
11:41 PM
Personally (and this is open to feedback), my plan would involve spending a week or two fully categorizing the however many undeleted posts, at which point, we VTD some, post some to main and let the rest be improved and then eventually posted
@cairdcoinheringaahing I say once it reaches 3k answers (currently 2956), we do something about it
New box, old one as dup
And empty the box every 1k answers
But, most importantly, we suspend new answers for a certain amount of time while we work on it, to avoid new answers being buried
@Lyxal We've already tried that, it didn't work
@cairdcoinheringaahing oh
Would closing it then reopening it work for that?
I think so
The problem is is that it'd require full on community engagement, rather than just a few users, so it's an all or nothing plan
11:44 PM
I wouldn't be of much help yet as I still can't delete / view deleted posts
It would probably take about 2 minutes per answer on average. That's 100 hours total, not too bad divided up over 20+ people
But I'd chip in where possible
Because most of us don't have the delete privilege, could we make a long list of answers to delete (such as "posted to main" ones) and have a moderator or two go through afterward?
I'll post a meta discussion in the next few days if it seems like people are behind this, I just wanted a gauge of interest first
I'd totally help. I don't have too many useful privileges, but I have a lot of time and care about the community
11:46 PM
@RedwolfPrograms Not even a moderator. IIRC 10k+ users have 20 VTD/day, so with enough users, we could delete plenty of old, dead answers
@RedwolfPrograms same
@cairdcoinheringaahing 20? I thought I'm only getting 5 when i get 910 more rep
Oh, it's 10k? I thought it was 20. This might be easier than I was thinking (but still a lot of work :p)
@cairdcoinheringaahing and even still, that's only VTD questions isn't it
I'll write up a meta proposal in the next couple of days to get a better judge of how people feel about it
Not sure, my internet's so bad it won't load the privilege page :/
@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah it's 20k+ that can VTD answers
Not 10k
And it's 5 votes per day + 1 per 1k up to 30 votes per day
So not even you can delete answers yet
11:50 PM
Looks like we might need a moderator to help, but 20k users can definitely do a lot to help
If there's support for this on meta, I'll write up my full plan and see what people think, but I'm not planning on deleting too many posts, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue, especially given that we do have a fair number of 20k+ users still around
@Lyxal ...I should've known that
I think I was remembering the times before the rep levels changed, when I had access to all the privileges
I assume we'll need to delete 80% or so, which I estimate would take around 20 hours of moderator time.
@cairdcoinheringaahing right now, there's only 67 20k+ users
@RedwolfPrograms That's high
And I'm thinking around 30-50% are inactive now
Leaving 30ish users available
That could work maybe
11:52 PM
I'd estimate around 25% straight out deletion, the rest would either be post to main or improve then post
I don't know, if there's 3000 of them a lot are probably just "posted to main" or sth like that.
Actually never mind, appears only around 50 of them are
Unrelated, but I wish I could pick which of my challenges had become popular. So many of my highly upvoted ones are super trivial, when the ones I'm most proud of just ended up kind of ignored /:

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