TRPG General Chat

12:00 AM

4

Q: Is there a standard hierarchy when two supplemental books contradict each other?

The spell, Energy Vortex, is found in: Complete Divine (p.164) as a 4th level Cleric/Druid spell (published May 2004) Spell Compendium (p.81) as a 3rd level Cleric/Druid spell (published Dec 2005) In both books, the spell does the exact same effect/range/damage (choice of acid/fire/electricity/...

BESW

...I wonder if one of the Magic Sword games would work with Trantor, that'd be cool.

AncientSwordRage

12:50 AM

@BESW these are very interesting words

BESW

@AncientSwordRage 4e artifact mechanics were kinda cool.

AncientSwordRage

@KorvinStarmast 4× figurine of wondrous power

@BESW I hardly played, despite much enthusiasm

BESW

In 4e, the elephant Figurine of Wondrous Power is an artifact, and artifacts are intelligent items with Opinions About Your Party. You're supposed to get one artifact every five to ten levels, and it sticks around with you for a couple levels before going away happy (leaving a reward) or angry (punishing you). Its attitude is tracked by its Concordance score, which goes up and down depending on what you and the artifact do together.

And powers the artifact gives you access to increase/improve or decrease/reduce depending on its Concordance score, too. So Tantron likes using his charge power, meeting other large creatures, and smashing things; he dislikes being summon indoors or underground, and taking friendly fire.

If you anger him too much he starts attacking allies whenever he's damaged. But if you make him really happy he can stay in elephant form indefinitely, and use Shadow Walk.

Artifacts were major story movers; having one dramatically changed what you could do, and provided new interesting priorities and values.

Your magic sword or archon's spellbook or whatever, has its own agenda and it's using the party as much as the party is using it.

AncientSwordRage

1:06 AM

Was this rule... Optional? I don't remember it at all

BESW

It's the GM's choice when/whether/how to add an artifact to your game.

If you don't get an artifact, the players never have reason to interact with its ruleset.

AncientSwordRage

I never read the DMG, which explains this gap of knowledge

BESW

But you could get an artifact very early in the game; since they're designed to only last a couple levels, artifacts themselves have recommended level ranges for the party to get them.

AncientSwordRage

When I played we all started with equipment so... 🤷🏻‍♂️

BESW

I liked to drop artifacts about once every five levels.

AncientSwordRage

1:09 AM

Never got to level up so we never got loot

BESW

Ah, that'd make it harder to get an artifact, yeah.

Though, 4e doesn't usually tie loot to leveling up.

Traditionally the GM is expected to scatter the loot bundles throughout the level, unless they're saving up for a dragon's hoard or something.

These days there are games entirely dedicated to the "your stuff has agendas too" concept.

Jun 6 '19 at 22:37, by BESW

Magic Swords is a two-page micro TTRPG. Play as enchanted weaponry and enact the perfect escape - if you don't blow everything up first. It's a silly and dramatic game for a different kind of sword and sworcery.

Jul 11 at 0:17, by BESW

Upcoming Kickstarter (13 Aug): Gun & Slinger by Nevyn Holmes is a game of mystery, hope, and finding your way in a world twisted by the forgotten child of a god that ate the sky.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW that sounds pretty cool

@BESW yeah, I'm surprised items are only given every 5 levels though, especially if they're meant to be spread out

BESW

...no?

Artifacts are completely independent of the standard loot/item distribution system.

They tend to turn up in the fiction alongside a loot bundle, but mechanically they're totally separate things and follow their own rules for how you get them, just like they have their own rules for what you do with 'em once you have them.

Every level the GM distributes [party minus one] magic items of [party level plus one, plus two, plus three, etc] levels, plus enough gold to buy an item of the party's level.

AncientSwordRage

1:26 AM

@BESW oh

BESW

The GM can also choose to give the party an artifact, if they choose, but the party can only have one artifact at a time and the artifact leaves of its own accord after a while.

AncientSwordRage

I've played to much magic the gathering ... I had assumed artifacts === equipment. Things make more sense now.

BESW

> artifacts are intelligent items with Opinions About Your Party

AncientSwordRage

@BESW my brain addled sleep thought that was off

BESW

AncientSwordRage

1:40 AM

@BESW this but in reverse

Bardic Wizard

2:54 AM

I have a cute little cheery thing: so today (In my time zone) is my birthday, and one of my best friends organized a whole bunch of people to text me happy birthday throughout the day as a sweet surprise. Just goes to show there are some wonderful people in the world, especially since several of these people saw me absolutely murder the entire party last time we could have rpg club in person...

V2Blast

3:26 AM

@ThomasMarkov I suspect the WotC perspective would be "the SRD is not a rules reference, so the renamed versions of stuff in it aren't relevant to questions about the 5e rules". Likewise, when stuff in the SRD is contradicted by the published books (e.g. the sword of sharpness does 14 extra damage on a nat. 20 per the DMG, vs. 4d6 extra damage in the SRD), only the DMG's text is relevant

(For reference on what the SRD actually is, if not a rules reference: "The Systems Reference Document (SRD) contains guidelines for publishing content under the Open-Gaming License (OGL).")

Thomas Markov

3:42 AM

@V2Blast You should write that in an answer.

linksassin

@BardicWizard Happy birthday!

Thomas Markov

It’s imo a better answer than the one I received.

@BardicWizard whoa it’s my birthday in 17 minutes (local time)

Bardic Wizard

4:26 AM

@ThomasMarkov happy birthday!!

V2Blast

5:20 AM

@ThomasMarkov Is there a mainsite question? I just assumed you were asking the chat :P

ah, found it:

0

Q: Are the spells Leomund's Tiny Hut and Tiny Hut considered the same spell for the purposes of combining magical effects?

The Player's Handbook contains the spell Leomund's Tiny Hut, and the Basic Rules contains an SRD version of this spell called Tiny Hut. The descriptions of these spells are completely identical. The rules for combining magical effects say: The effects of different spells add together while the d...

dnd-5e spells

V2Blast

7:03 AM

posted an answer :P

Hot RPG Questions

1

Q: Are the spells Leomund's Tiny Hut and Tiny Hut considered the same spell for the purposes of combining magical effects?

The Player's Handbook contains the spell Leomund's tiny hut (on p. 255), and the Basic Rules contains an SRD version of this spell called tiny hut. The descriptions of these spells are completely identical. The rules for combining magical effects say: The effects of different spells add together...

dnd-5e spells stacking simultaneous-effects

StuperUser

9:00 AM

Morning all

Got a downvote on https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/174191/does-adding-multiple-skills-when-combining-creatures-cause-balance-issues

Is there anything that should be improved on the question?

AncientSwordRage

@StuperUser I think someone may disagree with the premise

BESW

Aug 25 '16 at 22:19, by BESW

It's been my observation that one downvote means "Take a look at what you can polish or re-focus, but otherwise just accept it as noise."

AncientSwordRage

@BESW agreed

StuperUser

Thank you. Yeah, without any more information from the downvoter I couldn't see an issue. It's a short question and I've framechallenged it myself in an answer. Yeah, it felt like a noise downvote, but didn't want to blithely carry on if it was a blindspot for me.

BESW

Always fine to check in with chat about these things! Thank you.

AncientSwordRage

9:10 AM

@BESW I thought you said cat then and I still agree

BESW

Also true.

AncientSwordRage

Also, someone's been bumping disarm questions

Someone_Evil

10:08 AM

@AncientSwordRage That would be @V2Blast realizing the tag got made and that I forgot to also go round and add it to the old questions :)

V2Blast

accurate :P

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil I want going to name names, but that seems right

V2Blast

@StuperUser not really tied to the downvote on the question, but you don't need to announce that you're challenging your premise to do it.

Someone_Evil

It sure helps it not get mistaken for a NAA though

V2Blast

Plus the structure of your answer seems to be a bit too short, and emphasizes the fact that you're challenging the premise over the actual main point of the answer (i.e. you're saying "I'm doing X because Y", where Y is the actual main point of your answer, and X is just sort of meta-commentary about what your answer is doing - but phrasing it that way seems to emphasize X over Y)

@Someone_Evil I suppose, but even in its current form I did wonder to myself whether/how it was addressing the issue (for both questions it was posted on :P)

Someone_Evil

10:15 AM

Well, the issue is they were trying to create an X suing method Y and ran into an issue. Frame challenge-y answer is to say "use method Z instead"

BESW

It's always helpful, frame challenge or not, to have a "this is the effect my suggestion creates and why I think that effect is the solution to your problem" section.

V2Blast

yep. (even when it's your own problem you're trying to solve :P)

It was just a matter of the answer(s) not completing the thought/filling in the gap

StuperUser

10:51 AM

@V2Blast @Someone_Evil I've added some more to one of the answers including some references to where in the DMG the relevant details are, so it feels like a good and useful answer to the specific issue of each NPC type and the process of creating monsters in general rpg.stackexchange.com/a/174223/3819

StuperUser

11:08 AM

Not only but also, rpg.stackexchange.com/a/174224/3819

Added some more references to what the balance issues should be.

It turns out the section of the DMG about creating and modifying NPCs/Monsters has a bunch of information that answers my questions about modifying a monster and is relevant to them! Who knew?!

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov am I making sense with my comments here?

Hot RPG Questions

10

Q: Are creatures that are immune to disease affected by the harm spell?

The harm spell, flavourfully, states it creates a virulent disease You unleash a virulent disease on a creature that you can see within range. It later calls out that Any effect that removes a disease allows a creature's hit point maximum to return to normal before that time passes. But no wh...

dnd-5e spells disease

AncientSwordRage

> Your maximum HP is your maximum HP, you can’t have more than your maximum except by having temporary hitpoints in addition to your actual hitpoints.

this may sound dumb, but is there a source on this?

Thomas Markov

11:48 AM

> A creature's current hit points (usually just called hit points) can be any number from the creature's hit point maximum down to 0.

Morning friends

Pureferret

@ThomasMarkov Bor Da!

Thomas Markov

I just deleted my comments

Pureferret

@ThomasMarkov Likewise

Thomas Markov

@Pureferret theres a typo in your profile bio

I'm a recent graduate with a perchant for Java, Science, Coffee, and all sorts of Games!

Perchant (noun) a bird tied by the foot, to serve as decoy to other birds by its fluttering.

NautArch

and repetitive! Java is another word for coffee :P

You do have a penchant for grammar, @ThomasMarkov

Pureferret

11:52 AM

@ThomasMarkov I will get to it one day

Thomas Markov

haha

Pureferret

I've customized my profile around the stack network, so to change it I should change it everywhere individually or in bulk then re-customize

Thomas Markov

12:24 PM

It seems my question about tiny hut was somewhat polarizing.

its at +7/-5 right now

KorvinStarmast

@Pureferret My brother and I are home brewing an artifact which more or less 'unlocks' powes as the players level up. (Granted, none of the current players are of the right class to use the higher powers, but who knows what the party will look like when the levels change? We have quite a bit of transition, and some players retire a PC and start another one...)

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast Similar to the Vestiges of Divergence from EGtW?

KorvinStarmast

They just stumbled across it in an introductory adventure, and have already been attacked by the cult that it originally belonged to. (Gave me a chance to try out the NPC Bloodhunter from Mercer's home brew. It was OK as an NPC)

@ThomasMarkov Not sure, I'll have to go and look that up.

Thomas Markov

> Typically, the advancement of a Vestige of Divergence echoes its wielder’s own journey of self-discovery, whether that involves triumph or failure. However, a Vestige of Divergence might evolve on its own during moments of duress or desperation for its wielder, granting additional aid in times of need. These moments of advancement are up to the Dungeon Master to identify and enforce, and might manifest in unexpected ways.

KorvinStarmast

@Pureferret Ah, there's an easy ask from the DM. (Not!) I wonder if someone can craft those ... hmmmm....

Thomas Markov

12:29 PM

> A Vestige of Divergence typically remains dormant until its wielder achieves 9th level. It becomes awakened between levels 9 and 15, and achieves an exalted state between levels 16 and 20. Ultimately, though, this progression is determined by the Dungeon Master.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov Seems like standard Bakerian bloat; since I've not played in an Eberron campaign at those levels, I may be mistaken though.

Someone_Evil

You could just buy elephants. They're only 200 gp a pop (PHB 157)

6

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov what my brother and I tried to do was unlock one ability at a time so that the item goes from uncommon, to rare, to very rare, to legendary, to artifact due to feature addition some what comensurate with tier of play. Not sure if we have achieved that, however, and we won't know until/if the game gets into Tier 3.

MikeQ

1:02 PM

@KorvinStarmast IIRC, that would be from the Wildemount book, referring to campaign-specific macguffins from the Critical Role show.

NautArch

@MikeQ never heard of it :P

Thomas Markov

Whoa, I think an artificer with crossbow expert can use a shield and a handcrossbow and still get both crossbow attacks

Someone_Evil

Can't they just take repeating shot?

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil Yeah, that's how. repeating shot eliminates the need of a free hand to reload. So you can have a shield and handcrossbow and get multiple attacks.

Someone_Evil

1:18 PM

Ah both as in Action+BA, I assumed they'd also be getting Extra Attack (which the battle smith does)

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ Ah, so it wasn't Eberron? Well, Matt M is bloaty ... and bloat is easy to do in home brew.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Welp, seen 3 character sheets so far...no 10' pole.

they'r enot going to find the entrance :(

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch What? Going into a Gygaxian dungeon with no 10' pole? I wonder of Mage Hand will suffice for a lot of that poking and prodding ... we'll see, I guess. We didn't have cantrips in the auld daze ...

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I've told them to include it and still no one puti it on their sheet.

Mage hand will work for some things...but not all.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch You can lead the kids to books, but some of them will try to eat the books ...

My granddaughter is just beginning to enjoy being read to by my daughter, however, she also tries to grab the corner of the book and chew on it. (She's 11 months old)

We get to see that action thanks to face time sessions ...

NautArch

1:25 PM

board books are the best for that!

KorvinStarmast

I don't miss teething ...

NautArch

definitely don't miss that

KorvinStarmast

But I will soon be old enough that I may revert to drooling again ... 😛

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast My daughter finally quit eating books.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov Glad to hear that; does that mean she just graduated from college? 😁😆

Thomas Markov

1:28 PM

haha no shes 17 months.

KorvinStarmast

Not sure if you have seen the movie adaptation of The Name of the Rose - that will scare anyone off of eating the corners of book pages ...

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast ha! phenomenal movie and book.

KorvinStarmast

Yeah, quite the masterpiece

Thomas Markov

She really loves this Noah's Ark book (Amazon link). She will sit for tens of minutes flipping the flaps on this one.

NautArch

1:41 PM

@KorvinStarmast Gave them another reminder :P

Thomas Markov

@NautArch How do you store a 10' poll?

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov carry it? One player is smart and getting a collapsible pole

for one of their common items

Thomas Markov

That's nice. We break ours into pieces and have the druid cast mending when we need it to be 10' long.

NautArch

oh, it's just common. I'm letting them buy it.

one guy playing a tabaxi warlock said "I can cast jump at will and have a climb speed, i don't need a pole"

okeydoke!

Thomas Markov

can you jam the poll into the ground then use your climb speed to stand on top of it?

NautArch

1:49 PM

@ThomasMarkov acrobatics check!

Rubiksmoose

@ThomasMarkov That's actually a pretty clever idea...

Not sure what advantage you can cheese out of that but it is clever

NautArch

If there was someone with a backstory involving a circus, i'd allow performance :)

Rubiksmoose

"Well my whole family was in the circus. Then they all died in a murder disguised as a freak accident. I trained hard for years to get revenge. This rich guy adopted me and trained me..."

So I climb up the pole?

NautArch

roll that d20!

Rubiksmoose

d20

Dice Service

1:54 PM

16

NautArch

you make it with flourish.

Rubiksmoose

woohoo!

Thomas Markov

@Rubiksmoose combine with a single immovable rod for an infinite ladder.

NautArch

You find a location to firmly plant the pole and swing yourself up to the top, balancing on one foot on the end.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Here's what that looks like. (Kinda NSFW? - shirtless guy in a primetime network TV show)

Also RIP Sam Lloyd :(

Thomas Markov

1:58 PM

NVM still wouldnt work with immovable rod

Rubiksmoose

I do love the immovable rod. One of my favorite items to get or give.

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose likewise

Rubiksmoose

Just open ended enough to allow for some awesome creativity, but also almost no way to break the game with a reasonable DM.

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose for a given definition of break the game

Rubiksmoose

indeed lol

Thomas Markov

2:04 PM

@Rubiksmoose My personal favorite use is whipping it out when you get swallowed by a big creature.

Where you going buddy? NOWHERE

Rubiksmoose

Brilliant :)

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov thats exactly where my mind went too

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov Excuse me while I whip this out?

AncientSwordRage

@NautArch can you activate items with a whip?

I kow that's not what we're talking about, but I prefer this topic

NautArch

@AncientSwordRage not a mel brooks fan?

It's just a proclamation for being named sheriff. sheesh.

AncientSwordRage

2:12 PM

@NautArch I am, but I'm a little rusty

KorvinStarmast

2:45 PM

@NautArch "So, we are really going pole vaulting in the Tomb of Horrors, really!"

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Party is still pretty combat focused in design. ANy encounters should be dealt with swiftly.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose "And then, I started pole dancing and that's how I ended up on America's Got Talent !"

@NautArch Wait, is the sheriff near? heads off to bake a pie

NautArch

^this guy blazing saddles

MikeQ

3:00 PM

@NautArch This looks like a job for Poley, the animated 10 foot pole DMPC

NautArch

@MikeQ If that ever comes up, they're fighting Clippy

Thomas Markov

3:23 PM

my leomund's tiny hut question got 1k views in 18 hours

Ah, hot network question hit it.

NautArch

One of my players added a magic item to their DNdbeyond build and now we can't figure out where it's from.

Someone_Evil

Does it have a name?

NautArch

Platinum Tower Shield

Thomas Markov

Sounds quite valuable.

Is it made entirely of platinum?

NautArch

dunno, can't find it :)

Thomas Markov

3:29 PM

its not in homebrew...

NautArch

and i can't find it just searching the interwebs

Thomas Markov

that means your player created a homebrew item and it isnt public.

NautArch

He didn't, though.

I trust him

Thomas Markov

Ah, one of your players created it and that shares it with everyone in your campaign.

NautArch

ohhoho!

Thomas Markov

3:31 PM

everyone in the campaign will have it show up in the item lists.

NautArch

It's on stackizen campaign!

so one of those created it!

but wait, shouldn't I see it?

if it's in my campaign?

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