Not a bar, but plays one on TV

12:00 AM

It's not about what era you're from. It's about what you said and how you said it.

user15026

I really need to watch the new She-Ra. (And finish Kipo, and Steven Universe, and and and and why are there so many awesome cartoons)

V2Blast

@Ash Oh man, you should definitely finish Kipo!

How far in are you? :)

Jeffrey Witty

@V2Blast thats the constant reply

goodguy5

boooooooooooooooooo

doppelgreener

He-Man is about to also get a reboot, so you're going to see just as much talk about it too once that happens

goodguy5

12:02 AM

(also a mild, immature giggle)

BESW

@doppelgreener I'm looking forward to it!

user15026

@V2Blast partway through episode 4, I think

goodguy5

Has anyone seen Lucifer or any other of the "is the bad guy really that bad of a guy?" movies/shows?

I'd love a Skeletor version

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 absolutely

Jeffrey Witty

ok so just so i know the sn... word is a no no. Are refrences to generations by there accepted title names also a nono?

doppelgreener

12:03 AM

Also, up until about a month ago I'd had a Skeletor avatar since Halloween, in case that helps clear things up

MikeQ

@JeffreyWitty It's not necessarily the word or label. Context is important.

user15026

@JeffreyWitty I think if you try to word police this it's not going to work out well. Just...speak with compassion.

goodguy5

@JeffreyWitty you could even say it's a sno-sno word

Jeffrey Witty

@Ash more word prevention

Mark Wells

@goodguy5 I saw the first episode of Lucifer and found the character unwatchably annoying.

Jeffrey Witty

12:04 AM

I dont want to be "that guy"

BESW

@MarkWells This.

doppelgreener

@JeffreyWitty there is not anything there about you mentioning generations, but there is something there about the value of not making sweeping generalisations

goodguy5

really, all you have to do is sincerely try not to be "that guy". the rest takes care of itself.

Mark Wells

@BESW Heehee, look at my and my amazing powers of making people embarrass themselves, it's hilarious.

Jeffrey Witty

I find this so awkward, not being aloud to speak due to peoples "personal truths"

goodguy5

12:06 AM

@MarkWells I actually really enjoyed the character and the show for what it was, but (as someone raised going to church) found the feeling of the devil being a sympathetic character to be unsettling.

BESW

@goodguy5 There are two kinds of "bad guy isn't so bad" revision stories. There's the kind that justifies liking problematic source material uncritically, and there's the kind that critiques unquestioned assumptions in the source material. Unfortunately the former is a lot more prevalent...

goodguy5

bro, at this point, it feels like you're looking for something to complain about.

Just say what's on your mind, except nicely (ish).

MikeQ

@JeffreyWitty That's fair. These chats include folks from many different backgrounds (by generation, geography, identity, etc), so moments of culture clash happen. However they are resolvable if folks involved are willing to listen to each other. One group may overlook certain topics whereas another group may take that topic very seriously.

Jeffrey Witty

but I think I will resign myself to the questions so I dont get a bad rep

open talk has too many wildcard factors these days

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body, no whitespace in body, repeating characters in body (264): To Seasoned/Long-time DnD 5e & Pathfinder 2e players. Could someone simplify the "Major Differences" in style, system, players? ✏️ by Jeffrey Witty on rpg.SE

Shalvenay

12:11 AM

@SmokeDetector rolled the culprit edit back

MikeQ

You don't need to like the She-Ra reboot. Many folks here enjoy it but you won't be faulted for not liking a TV show.

NautArch

With regards to the heman reboot, isn't Hamill voicing skeletor?

Ben

@Shalvenay Well that was mildly stressful

Mark Wells

@BESW Lucifer feels like a third kind: the kind that picks an element of the source material, discards its context entirely, and drops it into an unrelated story. (That said, I'm not entirely sure what the source material is; I heard it's supposed to be Sandman but from the little I saw, he looks like Generic Pop Culture Lucifer.)

Andras Deak

@NautArch it was mentioned here, yes

Ben

12:18 AM

"Delete it"
"well, other users might find it useful"
"DELETE IT"

Shalvenay

@JeffreyWitty -- I rolled your last edit to your question back since it kinda trashed the question. if you were trying to make a meaningful edit to it, go ahead and try again

BESW

@MarkWells Yeah, it's "We wanted to do Sandman but that stuff's nuanced and we're in the era of make-everything-a-crime-show."

Shalvenay

@Ben -- I was more thinking that the user might have had a cat vs. keyboard moment or the likes

NautArch

@AndrasDeak oh haha! Well, that still makes me very happy.

user15026

It looks like it just got edited again

Ben

12:19 AM

I think they're actually trying to get rid of it. He keeps rolling it back to that edit. They've just done it again

Might need to protect it?

user15026

And they are doing similar to other posts of theirs.

Mark Wells

@BESW At least when that show was called Elementary the guy was messed up in an interesting way.

Andras Deak

Which is to say, I know about it and I could've only picked that up here :)

Someone_Evil

Protection wouldn't do anything, locking would

BESW

@MarkWells Honestly I watched Elementary for Lucy Liu and not much else.

Akixkisu

12:20 AM

Flagging all of these for mod intervention.

Ben

@Ben I merely wisg to scrub myself from cite. Seems my opinion is not welcom. I will leave, but I want my content off the site 100% — Jeffrey Witty 1 min ago

user15026

@BESW yeah, she's why I stuck with it as long as I did.

BESW

Kinda like how I watched White Collar for Diahann Carroll.

NautArch

Well, that escalated quickly

Ben

There was a discussion recently about content ownership on the site... is there a meta for this? Or is it in the help section?

Mark Wells

12:22 AM

Lucy Liu was indeed fantastic.

Someone_Evil

Are you thinking of the licence update?

Ben

They want "all of their content removed". The thing is, it's not "their" content. Once you post on the site, the content belongs to the site

user15026

Yep.

Ben

I think @V2Blast was part of that conversation?

Someone_Evil

All your thoughts are belong to us

user15026

12:24 AM

This MSE post might help: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5999/…

user15026

Specifically this bit: "What happens to my content? Can I request it be deleted as well?
Content you've posted on the site is owned by you, but licensed to Stack Exchange, and you therefore cannot request that it be deleted with your account. Your posts will be effectively dissociated from your account; your username will no longer show on them, but it will instead show your denormalized username (e.g. "user123456" where 123456 was the user ID of your account).

However, certain posts you've made that have a score of -1 or lower will be deleted by the Community user immediately once your ac…

V2Blast

@JeffreyWitty: At no point did anyone demand you like She-Ra. All people asked is that you not refer to it (and "stuff" like it) with a term that's used as a dogwhistle to dismiss people's concerns. It's not a neutral term that has no connotations, like "Gen X-er", and it's not a term anyone uses to refer to themselves; it's only used as an insult or to be condescending/dismissive.

It's fine not to like a show. It's not acceptable to be condescending/dismissive of others that do, and it's certainly not okay to double-down on that behavior after being called out on it. So as I said, as long as you're empathetic and understanding of others, they will generally extend the same courtesy towards you.

NautArch

@BESW I was pretty disappointed in that Holmes retelling. Had so much promise.

BESW

@NautArch I thought the first season was solid, and then they slowly stopped character growth and kept rolling existing character growth back, and nope goodbye.

Jeffrey Witty

I want all my content removed asap

not my name

user15026

12:27 AM

Unfortunately, that's not how it works.

Jeffrey Witty

the content itself

have it that way then

NautArch

I'm not even sure I got through the first season

Jeffrey Witty

I'll be bad then

NautArch

No, you won't be. And if you are, you will be removed from the room.

user15026

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve, but I am sorry you've decided that this is the way forward./

Jeffrey Witty

12:28 AM

I can fake many ip's

Someone_Evil

@JeffreyWitty All that will achieve is get your account suspended (or worse)

Jeffrey Witty

accounts are free

trogdor

I un-ironically liked White Collar but i never watched Elementary

Jeffrey Witty

i only wantmy thoughts removed, please

BESW

That's a lot of effort to go to because you didn't understand the license you were granting for your content.

trogdor

12:29 AM

I think it would have made me really mad if i watched that

Jeffrey Witty

its more effort to control me

user15026

@JeffreyWitty I appreciate that you want a certain thing, but the network does not work that way, as the link I posted above mentions. We don't have any control over that - this was how the network was designed to work.

trogdor

Same with Lucifer

Ben

@JeffreyWitty Posting more is counterproductive. We do not own anything, and therefore cannot control anything. We are simply contributors, same as you.

MikeQ

Free money-wise, sure. But it's not useful. This wouldn't be the first time a disgruntled user tried to self-vandalize their content, or threaten to make duplicate accounts just to harass the site. There are specifically moderation mechanisms in place to prevent that.

V2Blast

12:29 AM

And just as a general note, regarding this room vs. the general chat: If you are worried that a conversation might be uncomfortable to some, that's part of why this channel exists; this allows there to be a space for conversations on sensitive topics to happen without forcing those uncomfortable with it to engage with them, but all the rules (including the requirement to Be Nice) still apply.

5

Jeffrey Witty

I understand it isnt you personally

I really just feel not welcome

and I wish to leave, with my thoughts

BESW

And yet, the only people you're going to be inconveniencing are the volunteers on this site.

Nobody with any authority to make changes will even notice.

Jeffrey Witty

then assist me, and I will be much more polite/kind with the matter. honestly, please

user15026

@JeffreyWitty Unfortunately, your options are a) stop using the site, let things lie b) delete your account, which will disassociate you from your content c) raise a big fuss and cause problems and ultimately have yourself suspended and still have to choose between a and b.

Ben

@JeffreyWitty I am sorry to hear that. A difference of opinion can happen, and does happen. The best way to manage this is to forget it and move on. Making all this effort is only making your own issue worse.

GcL

12:31 AM

@Ben I read a similar discussion thread about removing code from Linux. In short, you can change the license going forward, but can't rescind the previously granted license. CC-by-sa is the same.

MikeQ

If you really feel unwelcome, and aren't just having a bad day, then you are free to leave. Nobody can stop you. However the fact is you posted content onto StackExchange, and now StackExchange kind of owns that content. You can leave with your thoughts and your pride, but there's no way to take back your site content.

BESW

Assist you how? To get the site's license changed? A lot of people don't like the new license and have been shouting about it for months.

Jeffrey Witty

Its all about the snowflake thing

user15026

@JeffreyWitty We can't assist you any further than we have already - none of us have the power to do what you're asking. This is how the site is set up to operate.

user15026

@JeffreyWitty All we asked is that you not use a phrase that is harmful and disparaging and degrading to people. Compassion and kindness.

Jeffrey Witty

12:32 AM

so why not allow me to fill the question with blank sopce

GcL

@MikeQ the creators still own it. Everyone else has a license to use it.

Jeffrey Witty

space*

I want to remove my words

all of them

user15026

@JeffreyWitty that's vandalizing the site.

Someone_Evil

Because it harms the site

Ben

The words will still be there.

MikeQ

12:33 AM

No, it's not that you said snowflake, it's that you're trying to remove site content in a statement of "help help I'm being repressed", when we both know that you don't need to do that. You had a dispute in chat (which happens because site users are humans) and now you're taking out your frustration on the site. There's a mature way to go about this and you're choosing not to do that.

Ben

The edit history is a part of the question - it cannot be removed

user15026

@JeffreyWitty see, though, you don't - the licence means that it's owned by SE, now.

Jeffrey Witty

ok, I will be petty and waste unpaid ppls time then

sorry guys

I really am

GcL

@JeffreyWitty you already granted the license to use it. Ownership doesn't allow you to rescind that license.

BESW

Excellent, then you're not going to waste this room's time anymore.

Oh hey, somebody beat me to the kick-mute with a suspension.

trogdor

12:35 AM

Ugh

MikeQ

@BESW Now they're writing offensive words into the posts.

GcL

@JeffreyWitty your endeavors could be an interesting use case that drives the development of a script or tool to mitigate an edge case. At the very least, that will be interesting to someone.

Ben

@JeffreyWitty If you are sorry, then don't do it. Your problem is with the organisation that owns the site. Vandalizing the site can't, and won't achieve anything. There is nothing we can do. You will have to contact the site owners, post over on meta.stackexchange.com . That is your best bet

goodguy5

This particular drama is very confusing.

MikeQ

@goodguy5 It happens. Disgruntled users try to lash out with whatever means available.

Ben

12:37 AM

Literal people.

GcL

Sorry to come into the chat to find someone so unhappy with the site.

Ben

Didn't realize that was him.

V2Blast

...Well then.

BESW

← 79 messages moved from RPG General Chat

← 2 messages moved from RPG General Chat

GcL

Of all the things to want to take back, commentary on role playing game issues is pretty low on my list.

goodguy5

12:39 AM

but I don't even understand what to be disgruntled about.

When I had my special chat time-out, I was mildly disgruntled, because I didn't feel like it was properly explained to me what the offense was.

This was even less severe and more lenient and less of an issue.

NautArch

@BESW went to go brush my teeth to see if they cooled down first...guess they didn't

And to cool myself down

I've never kicked anyone and was wary

trogdor

@NautArch that's why i just stopped talking ( i wasn't brushing my teeth, but i was trying to wait for this to,.... Stop)

GcL

They seemed civil in chat. Disgruntled definitively, but I'm gonna ruin my posts is more of a toddler tantrum.

trogdor

Unfortunately it just escalated till he was removed

goodguy5

and with a really weird choice of slurs.

very unCanadian

trogdor

12:41 AM

And i guess now he's making a rucus elsewhere on the site :/

GcL

Did he insult people? I might have missed it. Mobile client is limited.

user15026

@NautArch Being a mod in the Bridge for so long has given me a bit of "remove with expediency" attitude, apologies if I mistepped.

Someone_Evil

Let's remember to be nice, even (especially) if we feel disgruntled by something

user15026

I just wanted to give everyone a chance to breathe and regroup - I figure that there's no world where taking 30 min at least to breathe is a bad thing.

NautArch

@Ash ohgeez, no. My apologies for not pulling the trigger earlier.

GcL

12:43 AM

I didn't get the not nice vibe. Came into the middle of a lot of frustration vibe.

doppelgreener

@GcL Yes. A good thing you did.

Limited and contained.

Thanks y'all.

Transcript for

Not a bar, but plays one on TV