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12:46 AM
@RegDwigнt I shall listen to it when I come back!
Currently holidaying without computer.
2
 
 
6 hours later…
6:46 AM
Imagines Cerb on a Pacific island with Pina Colada
 
 
1 hour later…
8:04 AM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ What one basically needs for getting it right on the issue of systematic oppression is not following the news. It's the moral worldview and knowledge of history that looks at the plight of real people, rather than listen to political propaganda and a bunch of laws.
You're argument there is basically the same as the one that American white supremacists (some of whom happen to be black, alas) make when they say there's no systematic oppression of blacks in America at all, because slavery was abolished 150 years ago.
You might say Iran didn't have slavery. Well, that's another mistake. Oppression is wrong in all its forms, whether directed at ethnic, religious, or whatever 'other's. The end result is the same: it deprives them of living a decent life. And of that kind of oppression, there is plenty in Iran, as is in many other places.
But if you still want to be a stickler for legal accuracy, then how about gays? Baha'is? How about the fact that legal Afghan residents are banned from more than ten provinces, which is tantamount to fascism?
How about half the population, women, who are treated as second-class citizens, who are direly under-represented in the Parliament, whom the Constitution deems unworthy of becoming presidents or freaking Supreme Hegemons, who can't be full judges for crying out loud?
Who have to suffer a dress code written and outlined in the law in spite of the public opinion?
 
Shall I interrupt your speech for a second?
 
How about the fact that the Constitution says every law in this land must accord with one religion as interpreted by the clerics of one sect of that one religion? And then goes on to preclude any change in that fact in future referenda? How's that for legal discrimination?
I could go on, but I hate the strictly-legal framing of the question of discrimination and systematic oppression. Again, focus on what the system does in privileging a small number of people at the expense of the rest, not what it says. Read history. Ask, for example, why should Kurds have to come all the way to Tabriz to get quality care in the first place? Questioning your own privileges is another good starting point.
 
I guess not then.
@Færd Please read what the discussion is about before you throw frankly ignorant accusations at me that I do not acknowledge that there's oppression in Iran.
@Færd Mitch asked whether there is oppression according to ethnicity, and now. I do not know of any examples, and from your response it seems you don't either.
That is not the same as saying everyone is living their happy life in an unprejudiced dreamily green utopia called Iran.
@Mitch asked if that criteria is also used to oppress people, and it's not, unless you show me some counterexamples. I'm pretty sure he didn't ask about oppression in general, as he knows the answer to that.
Baha'ism is not an ethnicity. Neither is homosexuality, or being Jewish or Christian, or a woman.
They were not part of the discussion in the first place.
@Færd So almost all of what you said is irrelevant. You say "there is oppression", and I said "there is not any prejudice merely based on ethnicity that I know, other than personal views, which are typically not all that typically held and do not stretch beyond taxi small talk." Those two are not mutually exclusive. I do agree that women are still being treated like second-class citizens in lots of cases despite state propaganda.
Ditto for other religious minorities.
 
8:22 AM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I saw your emphasis on legal ethnic oppression, and gave you some examples pertaining to that, as well as called the framing out and challenged it. I then gave other examples that do relate to the topic if you think about them intersectionally.
I guess it takes time to warm up to these ideas. Don't block it. Do some more reading and pondering, and expose yourself to uncomfortable ideas.
For now, tho, I think we're done discussing politics. I'm gonna look at that as a positive.
 
@Færd I did that a couple of years ago. I'm ready for anything uncomfortable.
But there's no need to get defensive about it.
@Færd No, I referred to that tangentially. I said something along the lines of "well, I don't see it on the streets, and Fard might have different experiences. The laws also don't say anything on this"
The worst ethnicist remarks I've heard were from uninterested cab drivers making some rude small talk.
When they're not bragging about their driving skills, that is.
I'm not sure this is even politics. I'm not defending anyone. I'm not sure that at this point anyone would unless with some dishonest intentions.
@Færd That actually furthers my point. It just happens to be so that Tabriz ended up a richer city than Kermanshah, and the war played a role in that. It's like saying I'm discriminated against because this good kidney transplant surgeon is in Tehran
 
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ It wasn't just the war. The Kurds' ethnicity and religion played a big role before, during, and after the war.
And it's all political, if you look closely. Politics of people's everyday lives.
I'mma excuse myself. See ya.
 
Cya. We can make discuss that later.
 
9:26 AM
*discuss
What is wrong with my English
 
9:53 AM
1
Q: What is the full text of the song about the failed battle of Kiska?

CopperKettleI came across a mention of the song about the failed battle of Kiska in the audiobook "The Rising Sun". I started googling, but found only two mentions, both on Google Books. Is there the full text of the song available? If the question is offtopic on History, feel free to move it to Lite...

 
 
3 hours later…
1:15 PM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ @Færd All I wanted to get an idea of was whether there are problems with ethnic groups in Iran to the same extent there are in say Turkey or Iraq. So it's a matter of degree not kind. And more concretely, if you just look at Kurds, which are a very large ethnic minority in all three states, 'oppression' is an awfully weak word for what has happened to them in Turkey and Iraq, and it seems to be much too strong a word for their situation in Iran.
(unless I've misread or been mislead by the news I've seen)
 
@Mitch And I'm saying your impression is correct.
 
@Cerberus How dare you.
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ And I'm saying I'll buy you a Coke.
 
@Mitch And I'm saying
 
Or rather, I think I'll go put milk in my tea and you can do whatever you want...
...and I'm back.
 
That was a quick milk downpour.
I'm chatting in meta.SE's chat
Did I link this here?
 
1:21 PM
That is an uncomfortable image.
 
119
Q: Let's take a look at the interaction between staff and the "power users" of the network

MithrandirRecently, it was announced that the "Hot on Meta" questions would no longer show up on the SO sidebar. Sara Chipps elaborated a drop on why: Stack Overflow Employees have panic attacks and nightmares when they know they will need to post something to Meta. They are real human beings that are ...

@Mitch Oh you have no idea
 
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ that's not a chat, that's a novel.
 
@Mitch Surprisingly, it wasn't that long when I started reading it.
It's written for 3-year-olds or something.
Or maybe that's because it didn't tell me much that I didn't already know
Either way, it's a really exhaustive wrap up of what the current situation is on meta.SO.
If you ever needed to point someone to it.
 
I didn't realize all this was happening (has happened). My only experience with StackOverflow is like the elementary programming "how do you do X in language Y".
Is the mess all over now? Or is it in the middle of being cleaned up? I need a TL;DR.
Something like "People were being dicks; some people are still dicks"
Oct 18 '18 at 23:53, by Mitch
yesterday, by Mitch
Let that be my epitaph.
On ELU, pretty much every day I wonder "What is that guy's problem?"
But it's not that serious.
It's kinda like the Kurds.
 
1:36 PM
@Mitch The TL;DR; from my very subjective standpoint, is that the company is being governed by some at times hypocritical political correctness, and when one of those holier-than-thou idiots weaponize Twitter, it makes a whole lot of mess and distrust (with the company taking the Twitter troll more seriously than the avid dedicated userbase of a site).
On the other hand, they're realizing that the very old system that definitely did not scale since 2008 needs changing.
They have also shifted their focus from building a library of detailed bladiblah to attracting and trying to help the average homework vampire stick (and they won't)
The topping being that Sara Chipps almost hinted at removing meta altogether.
The company has sent signals like "downvoting people's post is unwelcoming and rude".
You get the idea.
About the on-the-other-hand part, they've also surprisingly tried to fix some of those very old bugs and help improve the very old broken features with what the community asked.
So it depends on whether you're a half-full type of guy or half-empty.
 
hypocritical political correctness?
 
I'm a half-full guy and, despite probably overwhelming evidence as to the contrary, believe that the situation would prove. "believe" is the right word for this hoping since it seems to be faith-based anymore.
 
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I'm a 'the glass is the wrong size' guy.
 
@Mitch Have you read the meta that lead to IPS.SE being removed from HNQ entirely, causing the site to lose about 80 % of its traffic?
@Mitch Ugh, engineers
 
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I'm following links and reading... it's a lot.
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ hahah.
hah
wait
This will sound juvenile (and it is) but the whole idea of IPS sounds like it would only ever attract heated opinions no matter how politely put.
 
1:45 PM
@Mitch You'll see what I mean. Basically a Twitter troll with a thousand followers took offense to something not at all offensive (IIRC, not even out of context, but it's been a while since I could see images), tweeted "SO is hostile to women, just look", and SE responded promptly in a span of 40 minutes, removing IPS from HNQ. The real sore is the meta regulars debated and pleaded constantly so something would be done about IPS's HNQ months prior to this incident
 
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I'm more of a 'Please don't refill my glass. I want to finish it first before I get more, and I may not want more' kind of guy.
 
@Mitch They do get a fair number of "is the girl into me" questions. Sometimes there is some interesting moral or philosophical dilemma behind the post.
 
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ twitter has its own social media problems (facilitated by the UI).
 
Sometimes it's a husband or wife saying "I'm unhappy should I tell him/her"
 
at least it's obvious when bots post on SE.
 
1:48 PM
I have asked an IPS post to be able to vote in their moderator elections. Don't tell them I said this, but I think my situation, and other interpersonal situations that really do matter need to be consulted with a professional, not Mr. random person online
 
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ the "I'm unhappy" question is more potentially life changing than "does she like me"
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I don't think that is a controversial take.
 
@Mitch They're usually petty. Not the type you think of.
 
I'm unhappy about someone put a fork with the spoons
OMG that's what the metaphor with the oil in the lake and removing it with the fork was about.
 
There are also quite a number of questions from women which are basically "this guy harasses me what should I do". AFAIK early in its inception, IPS was a war zone and had some very sexist trolls.
I admire the people there who fought there to bring things in order
They're way more strictly moderated than ELU, if you're wondering.
If you're not wondering, then maybe pour more milk into tea.
 
I thought you did more Skeptics. Do you also do IPS?
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I do have to warm up my tea...
 
2:01 PM
@Mitch Just the one question. I lurk Skeptics though, that's true
I also have two awesome questions on Biology and one meh-probably-good question.
 
One of my pet peeves on ELU is the question that really turns out to be 'blah bl h blah how do I deal with my girlfriend bla balb'...
'... and I need a word to describe that"
ugh.
but..
I'm still trying to find the original tweet that caused the problem.
 
2:32 PM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Finally, I read it all. All the linked meta posts, found the original tweet, and followed all the comments, and looked at profiles of participants and their feeds. I also read War and Peace, Anna Karenina, and all volumes of Remembrance of Things Past, the last one three times. All editions of all volumes of Encyclopedia Britannica (even the first 1777 edition!). And youtubed all episodes of Friends. Now I think I have a (somewhat limited) perspective to say...
2
Jul 14 at 18:02, by Mitch
Dec 4 '17 at 21:05, by Mitch
Sep 2 '16 at 15:26, by Mitch
Aug 1 at 19:27, by Mitch
Jun 27 at 21:28, by Mitch
Dec 17 '15 at 15:36, by Mitch
people are idiots
 
3:11 PM
@Mitch Don't we have a tag for that? ?
@Cerberus: Where are you on holiday? Someplace fun, I hope.
 
@Robusto Oh right:
 
Or maybe ...
Because they are very likely single, no?
Single word requests are the potato chips of EL&U.
 
3:38 PM
SWRs are the FLAMIN' HOT® Cheetos of ELU.
> Lil Xan Went to Hospital After Eating Flamin' Hot Cheetos: 'It Ripped Something in My Stomach' It's safe to say Lil Xan will not be reaching for Flamin' Hot Cheetos again anytime soon. The rapper, 22, shared on Instagram that he made a trip to the hospital on Monday because of the popular orange snack.
 
3:56 PM
@Mitch SWRs are the Lil-Xan-at-the-ER of EL&U.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:30 PM
2
Q: Did EgyptAir publish this totally messed up map from Europe?

infinitezeroToday I've come across this image: While the site itself only claims that Helsinki has been moved to Siberia, you will quickly notice that most countries and even the seas are severely displaced. Googling for "Egypt Air European Map" or "Egypt Air wrong map" did not yield any results. Did the...

How messed up is it? I can't see the image
Or LOL. One of those.
 
5:52 PM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ yep, that's the same map as on skeptics.
 
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 18 mins ago, by Marshmallow
I like how Prague is hugging Moscow, and Brussels Berlin.
I'm thinking the designer used one of 'em weird graphing packages in LaTeX and got frustrated enough that didn't care about failure
The fact that the different TeX engines always take humanity and readability into account, when most people don't, is a common reason for these screw ups
 
 
3 hours later…
9:07 PM
@Mitch I would disagree that it's too strong a word for their situation in Iran.
 
9:47 PM
@Færd Yeah, I don't know anything just working backwards from absence of hearing of terrible things happening there.
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ 1) Hunh? it doesn't look like anything remotely done in TeX but 2) it could totally be explained by the designer giving up at some point.
and 3) I don't get your second sentence. who are these 'people'? what kind of humanity is in TeX?
 
 
2 hours later…
11:35 PM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ As someone who has worked with designers for decades, let me assure you that making sense is absolutely the last thing they think about.
Designers place literal accuracy, shall we say, beneath a pedestal. What goes on the pedestal is graphical design.
 

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