@DavidCarlisle We all know the Internet is full of fake news and similarities

@marmot marmot for president!

@marmot But your beloved Vancouver Island marmots are Canadian, and a Canadian invented the Hawaiian pizza.

@AlanMunn Nahh, even though under the present administration many Hawaiian would like to be Canadians, Hawaii still belongs to the US.

@CarLaTeX Can a president hibernate for 8 month per year? Probably not ;-)

@marmot theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jun/10/…

@marmot Since what recently happened in Italian politics... everything is possible :)

@AlanMunn But he was from Greece. Marmot population in Greece: 0. (Probably also no invisible dwarves, but it's hard to count them.;-) So you see, all consistent.

@marmot :)

@CarLaTeX Not to mention American politics...

@CarLaTeX Well, yes, many politician would do a much better job if they hibernated.

@AlanMunn We had Berlusconi, they're always late :):):)

@CarLaTeX Quick edit catch there. :)

Speaking of American politics: Canada considers tariffs on US canned water.

@AlanMunn I forgot you're Canadian: the Americans with health care and without guns

@CarLaTeX Canadians actually have plenty of guns for hunting. Just not guns for hunting people.

@CarLaTeX Although "plenty" is relative, since there's only about 36 million people total...

@AlanMunn Canned water? Do they put water in cans? It's like put pineapple on pizza... ops

@CarLaTeX You need to follow the link...

@AlanMunn Are you less than Italians? Oooh

@CarLaTeX And we have a lot more space.

@AlanMunn purchased by at least one lonely person with no concept of taste. LOL I love Canadians :)

@AlanMunn but most of it is frozen :)

@CarLaTeX Sadly, increasingly not.

@AlanMunn I never understood why anyone would pay for these "beers"... (Oh, I just realize that some people put pineapple or nutella on a pizza, so perhaps it is not too surprising.... ;-)

@AlanMunn :'(

@marmot This is also the country that brought you American cheese.

@AlanMunn Which American cheese?

@marmot No, "American" is a kind of cheese. It's a kind of polymeric cheddar coloured milk product, typically found on cheeseburgers and sandwiches.

@AlanMunn Well, this is one of the reasons why I eat neither of those. (In California, one can buy beer, but the really good one is $5 per bottle....)

@AlanMunn This is cheese: cibo360.it/qualita/certificazioni/formaggi/elenco_DOP.htm

@CarLaTeX Fully agree!

@marmot :)

@CarLaTeX This is also cheese: agriculture.gouv.fr/combien-daoc-fromages-existe-t-il

@CarLaTeX One can also get these in California, just 5 times as expensive as in Italy :-(

@AlanMunn Yes, of course, I like French chesse, too :)

@CarLaTeX And cheese is also one of the things that the British also make well.

@AlanMunn I guess you were never in Switzerland.... Once you go there, you won't touch French cheese....

@AlanMunn This is a bit hard to believe for me, I have never tasted an English cheese...

@CarLaTeX Good for you!

@marmot I have been in Switzerland. It has good cheese too.

@marmot Swiss cheese is great, even if I don't like gruviera

@CarLaTeX There aren't many soft cheeses, but many great harder cheeses, and some great blue cheeses.

@AlanMunn I've lived in France for a while and always cycled to Switzerland to get cheese.... even though things are more expensive there....

@AlanMunn blue cheese? Oooh

@CarLaTeX The most famous English blue is called Stilton. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stilton_cheese

@AlanMunn Ah... now it's clear why Geronimo is called Stilton: it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo_Stilton

@AlanMunn Blueberry cheese? Really? Sounds a bit like pineapple pizza....

@marmot Yeah, I don't think that's a traditional cheese at all. It's a shame it made it to the wikipedia page.

@CarLaTeX Cute!

@AlanMunn Not too surprising, given that pineapple pizza also made it to Wikipedia.

@marmot It's surprising it hasn't suffered from a constant edit war.

@AlanMunn At least Hopf gets mentioned at this Wikipedia site, so not all is bad....

@AlanMunn but there is the section Controversy :)

It's late for me, so I wish you all a good night/morning. :)

@AlanMunn Good night, sleep well :)

@AlanMunn Hibernate well!

@CarLaTeX @AlanMunn The UK is has world Champion cheeses: youtube.com/watch?v=-6DLahcTf-g

@DavidCarlisle If they throw it down the hill, it should not be so good :):):)

@CarLaTeX Try throwing a Mozzarella down a hill, it's useless.

@DavidCarlisle We also have grana padano and parmigiano reggiano which are suitable for that use

@CarLaTeX poor copies, to liven up those copies of asian noodles that you like so much.

@DavidCarlisle :P

tug.org/tug2018/abstracts/wright-faq.txt

@JosephWright tug2019 should be in Northampton, save you travelling so far to give all the talks

@DavidCarlisle That has occurred to me

@DavidCarlisle It looks a bit like a larger version of a UK-TUG meeting ...

@DavidCarlisle I have wondered when someone will say 'Could you run it, say in that place near Didcot'

@JosephWright @PauloCereda does the venue have windows?

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle Oh come on, sometimes I get us a room with windows

Time to get my (delayed) train ...

For LaTeX only a certain list of unicode chars are supported. Is there a list of those somewhere (preferably as hex or similar)?

In an application I'm doing an automatic report in PDF via pdfLaTeX and for some reason the data contained 200E which was not support by pdflatex, so I'd like to parse the data in advance to ward of strange input.

@daleif The declared unicode chars depends on the encoding used by the document. With T1 ot1enc.dfu and t1enc.dfu are loaded. It shouldn't be too difficult to parse the files.

@UlrikeFischer Thanks, I'll see what I can come up with

@JosephWright and good light!

@JosephWright ooh shaky train

@egreg oh no

@PauloCereda Mainly just delayed: my original one was cancelled, this one is running late. Will make up the time by not getting a lunch break ...

@JosephWright oh no, you better have lunch!

Then break something. :)

Guys, out of curiosity, what's your monitor size? Mine's 21", but I am thinking of getting a 23".

@PauloCereda At work, I am totally spoiled with a 27" thunderbolt display. Away from work, I only have the builtin 13" display of my laptop.

@daleif utf8enc.dfu has all the ones latex knows out of the box

@PauloCereda something quick like crispy duck rolls perhaps?

@PauloCereda I have 23" with 1920/1080 resolution. It is quite old (5 years).

@daleif eek U+200e wouldn't be so easy to handle

@PauloCereda I will: timing looks like I'll have longer-than-expected change in London, so I'll pick one up

@DavidCarlisle Currently I just defined the char to do nothing, but it seems better to just clean the input and remove everything that is not ascii or in that utf8 list

@PauloCereda I will: timing looks like I'll have longer-than-expected change in London, so I'll pick one up

@daleif yes but that's a right to left mark, if you just ignore it and typeset the document backwards, it may be better to do nothing?

@DavidCarlisle well it is inside a Danish text.... there will at most be Danish or English text here.

@daleif actually 200e is left -to-right not right-to-left so I suppose ignoring it is OK, not quite as invasive as 202e:-)

@HaraldHanche-Olsen wow, 27"! I don't think I can handle a larger screen!

@DavidCarlisle sigh

@UlrikeFischer Cool, I am thinking of one of these, but newer. :)

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@JosephWright phew

@daleif well presumably whoever added a U+200E was in an environment that was RTL and wanted to get back to LTR Danish (unless it was just a chance random control sequence, which seems unlikley)

@DavidCarlisle It seems to be an ordinary Dane (from the name, so I have no idea where that char came from)

And since it is invisible, the user does not know it is there either

@PauloCereda ive got 22 i think at home. At work its 19 and thats too small. However, at home its wall mounted and atwork i have it elevated, which helps

@yo' Ah good point, Tom. :)

@UlrikeFischer if you want to see a travis setup setting environment variables for TeX (SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH in this case) then you could look at github.com/OpenMath/OMSTD/blob/master/.travis.yml (and the run script in that directory) (brought it back here as not really ms takeover related)

@yo' ooh

@DavidCarlisle just replacing everything not from utf8enc.dfu or ascii by a msg, seems to work just fine.

@DavidCarlisle What do you think of pgf using \write16? tex.stackexchange.com/a/435226/2388

@daleif I should probably make it easier to downgrade the not set up for latex error to a warning, perhaps inserting ? or some such.

@daleif I think you should check that you not suddenly loose other chars defined by other font encodings. E.g.

\documentclass{book}%
\usepackage[LGR,T1]{fontenc}
\begin{document}
{\fontencoding{LGR}\selectfont αβγ }
\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle ok I just found tug.org/pipermail/luatex/2015-November/005485.html. So imho the use of \write16 by pgf is plainly wrong ...It is still the right suggestion to do this "To be portable and use an unopened stream you can use any number bigger than 127 or use \@unused"?

@UlrikeFischer yes seems to be the right suggestion, does pgf just use this once in \def\pgflog{\write16} or some such, or is it all over the source?

@DavidCarlisle I found at least five files:

basiclayer/pgfcoreexternal.code.tex
frontendlayer/tikz/libraries/tikzexternalshared.code.tex
libraries/pgflibraryprofiler.code.tex
math/pgfmathfloat.code.tex
utilities/pgfkeysfiltered.code.tex

an also a number of pgfplots files.

@UlrikeFischer boo suggest they change all \immediate\write16{..} to \pgf@typeout{....} then define that in one place:-)

@DavidCarlisle I made a bug report: sourceforge.net/p/pgf/bugs/488. I also added one for pgfplots. And I found \write16 in latex.ltx, in miniltx.tex, in ulem, in lots of tex4ht files ... I wonder which one really matters ;-)

@DavidCarlisle I insert <undef uft8 char, code ...>, seems enough. This is for internal use only, not it does not matter.

@UlrikeFischer I don't think it will be relevant in this case. If it is, then somebody is trolling us

@daleif sure but that means you are doing some search.replace prepass and not everyone would so easily do a search replace to remove all characters not in a given list.

@UlrikeFischer I wonder if we should change the ones in latex.ltx (they are safe enough, but the 16 sets a bad example) (@egreg, @JosephWright)

@DavidCarlisle Probably better to avoid an explicit number.

@egreg can't really afford to allocate a stream in the format I'm trying to remember why we don't just use \@unused

@DavidCarlisle Because it's unused? :-)

@egreg \typeout uses it..

@DavidCarlisle ? I thought the main point of 16 is that is it outside the normal range. So wouldn't \immediate\write200{something} be okay as replacement?

@UlrikeFischer yes until Hans decides to offer 1024 write streams

@DavidCarlisle Well one could define a command and adjust it if needed. Or use 123456. Should be large enough ;-)

@UlrikeFischer but the point is those messages are in everyjob so even though they appear at the start of latex.ltx (from ltvers.dtx) they probably don't need to be using \immediate\write at all and could use \typeout

@DavidCarlisle up to you to decide this ;-). But imho \write16 should better be avoided even if it doesn't do harm. Some people do look in the sources ...

@UlrikeFischer there's a 17 as well..

@AlanMunn -- which has been watered down into "american cheese food spread". even more synthetic. (but my husband and i just enjoyed a spread of new england-made cheeses at a local restaurant. the sheep's milk "great blue" and a sheep+goat brie relative were particularly tasty. so there is hope ...)

@DavidCarlisle Yes, saw it.

@PauloCereda -- i think it's 27", with 13"x25" dimensions. resolution 2048x1152 (used to have a higher resolution, but the graphics card burned out, and they don't make anything with higher resolution any more, at least at a price that's acceptable to management.) don't know how old it is, other than "very".

@barbarabeeton oh my!

@PauloCereda you need to be able to spot misplaced commas

@DavidCarlisle hm?

@PauloCereda Not that your manual is titled a,r,a,r,a ;)

@PauloCereda well I mean barbara does need a high res screen. As your document is empty, no commas are misplaced by definition.

@TeXnician ooh

@DavidCarlisle ooh efficiency

Oh wait...

@barbarabeeton My impression of the history of American food culture is that is largely died in the 1950s and is only recently starting to come back, at least in some domains (craft brewing, for example).

@AlanMunn reminds me of egreg and % at end of line

@AlanMunn -- craft brewing started a little further back than "only recently". doug henderson, who was active with metafont and blue sky into the 1990s was one of the founders of portland's "hair of the dog" microbrewery. and one of the providence microbrewery/brewpubs (union station) also started about the same time. they earned my appreciation by serving wheat beer and home-made root beer.

@barbarabeeton I guess the older we get the longer "only recently" lasts... :)

@AlanMunn -- true. but this undoubtedly informs the practice of giving directions by "where x used to be". very common in these parts, and often greeted with a quizzical expression on the face of the person requesting directions.

@barbarabeeton That's so true. When I lived in Montreal my girlfriend's family had a summer house in Vermont, and one time we were asking for directions and somebody literally said "turn left where X's barn used to be, the one that burned down".

@AlanMunn -- i love it!!! one of my favorite directions was from a fellow employee who lived in the country, and gave a map to her house with one intersection marked (by a really good drawing) with a field occupied by a tree and one cow. at the time, it was superbly accurate.

@barbarabeeton I also got lost in Ohio once, and went into a pharmacy to ask for directions. I had a map, but the cashier couldn't identify where they were on the map. So she sent me to the pharmacist, who said, well I'm not really from around here, I live 10 miles east. A surreal experience.

@AlanMunn, @barbarabeeton In Minas Gerais, you can hear "it's right there." Then you walk 20 kilometres. :)

@marmot British man denied Swiss citizenship for raclette ignorance.

Mission accomplished. :-D

@PauloCereda That's like how Venetians give directions: “tre ponti, do cale e te si rivà” (three bridges, two “calli” and you've arrived). Then it's several bridges, a huge number of turns and asking for directions again and again.

@egreg ooh :)

@AlanMunn I am not surprised. One should know these things. (But they also do not issue passports for marmots, their excuse is that they cannot get fingerprints.)

I don't know what a raclette is. Is that thingy used to play tennis and hit the ball?

@PauloCereda No Swiss citizenship for you then.

@AlanMunn oh no

@AlanMunn @PauloCereda The Swiss are going to ask your neighbors if you deserve becoming a citizen....

@marmot @AlanMunn can I have at least a Swiss army knife?

@PauloCereda Yes, it's called arara.

@AlanMunn YES

@AlanMunn: I will send you 1 ton of mate

@PauloCereda vvv

@PauloCereda pineapple and cheese go well together

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@AlanMunn: semiotics question: if SpongeBob SquarePants who lives in a pineapple under the sea orders pizza, does it count as a pineapple pizza?

hmm go to add travis to a gh repo and it says Note: GitHub Services are being deprecated. Please contact your integrator for more information on how to when did that happen?

@JosephWright ^^

@PauloCereda <3

@DavidCarlisle developer.github.com/changes/…

@AlanMunn yep that's what the text I copied linked to (link didn't copy) I wonder if travis will move to webhooks of if the CI will move to .... azure perhaps....

@DavidCarlisle I don't think this change is related to the takeover. (It seems to have been put in place earlier.)

@AlanMunn yes but ...

@UlrikeFischer I fixed your readme github.com/davidcarlisle/lua-font-pond/commit/…

@DavidCarlisle No idea.

@DavidCarlisle When I activated travis some weeks ago it already said that services are deprecated and added travis as an app (I don't claim that I understand the difference ...)

@DavidCarlisle ;-). Perhaps I should write in german. We have much more words with z.

@UlrikeFischer yes I was doing the same to my fork which is when it told me

@UlrikeFischer:

heck failed with difference file
  - ./build/test/test-kpsesearch.luatex.diff
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** ./build/test/test-kpsesearch.tlg	2018-06-06 20:14:39.932648924 +0000
--- ./build/test/test-kpsesearch.luatex.log	2018-06-06 20:14:40.644338800 +0000
***************
*** 1,4 ****
  This is a generated file for the l3build validation system.
  Don't change this file in any respect.
! yes
  (test-kpsesearch.aux)
--- 1,4 ----
  This is a generated file for the l3build validation system.

@DavidCarlisle yes that's my problem. With travis the testfile doesn't find the duckchess-glyphs.pdf which is in the texmf tree.

@UlrikeFischer ah OK give me a minute

@UlrikeFischer All checks passed

@UlrikeFischer I'm sure it's possible with docker but i used the simpler shell script setup we use for the latex tests, You could grab the fiels from my fork, or I could make a PR?

@JosephWright might possibly recognise the files

@DavidCarlisle I can grab them. Thanks that looks good! Why aren't you using l3build but texlua build.lua?

@UlrikeFischer because the files I copied were were written before you could do that, blame @JosephWright for not travelling backwards in time, as he wrote both

@UlrikeFischer it does a tl install from scratch, but after the first successful run, it caches the installed texlive tree and can re-use that next time

@DavidCarlisle ^^^

@DavidCarlisle How long is it cached?

@UlrikeFischer since there are only two tests, that's impressive!

@UlrikeFischer long enough, i don't know a month or so, or it re-creates it, actually it doesn't save so much as it either copes a compressed image from tlnet and then installs, or it copes a compressed archive of the cache and unpacks, but it doesn't save hours, but for the latex tests it spends a lot longer doing the actual tests than setting up

@DavidCarlisle But tlmgr update --self --all --no-auto-install is executed everytime? So that one always have a current texlive?

@UlrikeFischer yes, it just does the initial install if there is no tlmgr in the path, if there is, it is using the cached one, then it always does the tlmgr update lines

@DavidCarlisle You should thank me for having stolen the tick.

@egreg I'm sure you had my best interests in mind.

@DavidCarlisle As always!

@UlrikeFischer Until you delete it

@JosephWright searching for uk tex faq:

kleen-tex.co.uk/frequently-asked-questions

@UlrikeFischer Yes: that is a choice but by-design, as it means the system will (a) be the same as we are probably using on our own machines and (b) pick up issues with any changes in packages loaded

@DavidCarlisle :)

@JosephWright How do one delete it if one wanted do it?

@UlrikeFischer you could always make a checkin with the cache line commented out of the yml file

@UlrikeFischer There's a button on the Travis-CI website

@JosephWright oh yes forgot about that:-)

@JosephWright Is there in l3build an option not to check files which don't have an tlg?

@UlrikeFischer texlua build.lua check `echo testfiles/*.tlg | sed -e 's@testfiles/\([^ ]*\).tlg@\1@g'`

@DavidCarlisle boo. I will never be able to type this on a command line ;-)

@PauloCereda we can offer a few other swiss related garnements:

@UlrikeFischer c'est sexy