TRPG General Chat

Ben

12:00 AM

I dislike Horror/Thrillers in general. I don't find enjoyment in being scared. Lol

BESW

I like horror/thrillers in limited doses and within certain parameters.

Generally if the point is just to get the chemicals pumping, I'm out.

trogdor

@Ben i like horror if it gives you a chance to fight it, jump scares don't do that

And unfortunately they are criminally over used in the genre

Ben

@BESW Yeah. I agree with that

trogdor

So I usually avoid horror

MikeQ

Jumpscares aren't horror, they're just cheap surprises. They can be used as a tool for horror, but there has to be other substance.

BESW

12:03 AM

There are some films, like Alien, which use jump scares but I'm okay with it because that's not the bread and butter of the film. It's got more than that, and the jump scares are used sparingly and with deliberation as a pacing technique.

MikeQ

Nov 26 '18 at 7:26, by BESW

Alfred Hitchcock On Mastering Cinematic Tension

►

trogdor

@BESW I agree, but at the same time I still feel like Alien,.... Lost me a lot of sleep on the back of the jump scares

BESW

@trogdor That's fair.

trogdor

Still

It's a great example of horror

BESW

There are a lot of horror films I think I'd really like except they've got one thing I just can't stand so it ruins the rest of it too.

(Often the one thing is cannibalism.)

Let's see. Other films on the list...

trogdor

12:06 AM

Yeah that's as good as anything to be upset by

BESW

Forbidden Planet, Flash Gordon, Yeelen, Richard III (1995 version), Cleopatra Jones, They Live, Sneakers (1992), Ghost Dog, Adventures of Johnny Tao, The Last Dragon, Sen Noci Svatojánské, 12 Monkeys, The Secret of NIMH, April and the Extraordinary World, Murder by Death, The Maltese Falcon, A Monster in Paris, Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure, Jupiter Ascending, Attack the Block, Lo, Lola rennt, Cold Comfort Farm, Dead Man (1995), Metropolis (probably the 1984 rock cut), Max Headroom (1984)...

Geoffrey Lim

yo

BESW

The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension, Dr. Strangelove, The Trouble With Harry, The Mummy (1932), Stranger Than Fiction, Brick, Pitch Black, Pi (1998), That Thing You Do!, Nosferatu, Kolchak, Space is the Place, Sapphire & Steel, The Dark Crystal, City of the Lost Children, Mystery Men, Legend (1985), Mad Max 2: Road Warrior, The Maiden Heist...

@MikeQ [gestures above] That should hold you for a while.

MikeQ

I recognize maybe 50-75% of these

Should I be reading the list pairwise?

BESW

No, that's pretty randomized.

Ben

12:18 AM

@BESW Love Stranger Than Fiction.

MikeQ

Oh haha I was really scratching my head trying to figure out the common themes between consecutively listed films

BESW

There are some I've paired, but that list is taken from the original brainstorm.

Like, I paired The Maiden Heist with Sneakers for obvious reasons.

Ben

Side-topic, for anyone that has read my Corruption system: I received feedback that I should switch Wis/Int for the "Madness" type. (Second Degree - adv on wis/disadv on Int). If people have thots on this, they are welcome :)

BESW

@MikeQ I've got more films I want to show, than films I've found good pairs for.

And then I got sidetracked into doing a Double Feature series with the Star Wars films because one of my friends wanted to watch Star Wars but not with people who would be annoying about them not having seen it before.

Ben

The reason I went with this was the flavour of "Madness". IMO your perception of reality is altered, so you don't understand things the same way as everyone else.

@BESW do a Star Wars/LotR double feature :P

BESW

12:26 AM

Ain't nobody got time for that.

trogdor

Lol

Ben

When Return of the King came out in cinemas, my cousins came to visit - they had the extended versions of 1 and 2, then we went and saw the trrlogy in the cinema as part of the movie release.

I think it's been long enough now that I am feeling comfortable with watching them again.

trogdor

Eh

BESW

For the record, in order:
Forbidden Planet + A New Hope + Hardware Wars
Legend + The Empire Strikes Back
Flash Gordon + Attack of the Clones
Richard III (1995) + Revenge of the Sith
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country + Return of the Jedi
Ryan vs Dorkman 2 + Yeelen

trogdor

They were fun but spending a couple hours per movie on that story again,....

Yeelen?

MikeQ

12:30 AM

@BESW I'd expect a New Hope / Hidden Fortress combo

although Hardware Wars is short enough to add for a triple feature

BESW

@MikeQ Just add Star Wars Minus Star Wars for the same effect in 17 minutes, and still have time to watch a film that produces more conversation in the tension between itself and A New Hope.

Not that Hidden Fortress isn't great--in fact it's too good to waste on a pairing which boils down to "Hey Lucas saw this before he made Star Wars."

MikeQ

Fair enough. Would you consider Dark City / The Matrix for the list?

BESW

Pairing Hidden Fortress with A New Hope trivializes Hidden Fortress by reducing it to a Star Wars footnote. I'd rather pair it with a film that offers insight into Hidden Fortress.

Ben

I have also suggested a more "upscale" counter (instead of 10/20/30 etc, I thought of 10/25/45 and so on).

BESW

I would not pair Dark City with The Matrix, for similar reasons.

Double features are about finding movies that complement each other to bring out an unexpected insight into both.

Pairing Dark City with The Matrix would, I think, do a disservice to both because they're only superficially similar.

Yeelen

Yeelen (Bambara for "brightness"/"light") is a 1987 Malian film directed by Souleymane Cissé. It is filmed in the Bambara and Fula languages, and is based on a legend told by the Bambara people. Though the era is undefined, it is presumably set in the 13th century in the Mali Empire and is a heroic quest narrative featuring magic and precognition. It stars Issiaka Kane as Nianankoro, a young African man who possesses magical powers. Niamanto Sanogo plays Niankoro's father, who is tracking his son through the Bambara, Fulani and Dogon lands of West Africa using a magical wooden post to guide him...

trogdor

12:42 AM

Oooh I think you did tell me about this once

BESW

If my audience of the week had the stomach for it, I might pair The Matrix with A Nightmare on Elm Street 2: Freddy's Revenge.

MikeQ

I'm not seeing the pattern. How do they complement each other?

BESW

Dark City... maybe goes with Paprika.

@MikeQ They're both genre-defining films with queer subtext that went completely unnoticed outside QUILTBAG+ communities.

MikeQ

How about Dark City + Truman Show?

BESW

Not sure. I've thought about a Dark City pairing a lot and haven't found anything that really sticks the landing yet.

But it's moot because my friends have already seen it.

If I had to choose quickly, either Pi or Paprika depending on the audience.

Maaaaybe Moon?

Alternately, go for something completely un-supernatural in the noir genre.

nitsua60

1:08 AM

@BESW Metropolis with Dark City? Or maybe with Wall-E.

BESW

@nitsua60 Wait, which with Wall-E?

nitsua60

@BESW Metropolis.

@BESW mumble mumble it can go bad vs. it can get better?

Spent a week of a vacation once watching the LotR trilogy (extended cuts) on Monday, same with director's commentary on Tuesday, same with actors' commentary on Wednesday, same with production commentary on Thursday, and the appendices on Friday.
I'm not sure I'd have ever gotten through all of that in any other way.

BESW

→ 67 messages moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

→ 1 message moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

nitsua60

@BESW Ooh... I'm just catching up and see now that someone else had already brought up Dark City. And that you'd been looking for a partner for it.

BESW

@nitsua60 I think you may have something there, with the workers and the indulgent upper classes and so forth.

But then, Metropolis can be paired with just about ANY scifi dystopia because it's so seminal.

Ooh, new game: find scifi dystopias it doesn't make sense to pair with Metropolis.

MikeQ

1:17 AM

The Apple? Idiocracy?

BESW

Hey, a film I wasn't aware of!

trogdor

Star Trek

BESW

WITH MUSIC BY GEORGE CLINTON yes please I will take two.

trogdor

XP

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

KorvinStarmast

1:18 AM

@BESW heat of the night-classic

BESW

(I still haven't convinced Troggy to watch Space is the Place with me.)

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hihya

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 now a better time to talk? trying to wrangle a post that's brushing up against the Stack length limit here

nitsua60

sure

trogdor

@BESW AUuuggghhHgg

Shalvenay

1:20 AM

@nitsua60 want me to drop the link here, in NAB, or in Discord?

trogdor

I had blissfully forgotten that was a thing and now

Now it exists in my brain again

discord's fine

Burblegrble

(I am disappointed; The Apple's score was composed by George S. Clinton. Interest waning.)

Ben

1:22 AM

My girlfriend introduced me to The Man Who Fell To Earth on the weekend

BESW

You lied to me, Wikipedia summary!

@Ben Now there's a film and a half and a handful.

@Ben If you can find Brows Held High's musical review of The Man Who Fell to Earth, I highly recommend it.

All 20+ minutes of the review are sung as modified lyrics to famous Bowie songs.

KorvinStarmast

@Ben How did you like it? It was made for a different generation. I wonder how well it has aged.

Ben

@BESW Just forwarded that on to my girlfriend. She is a Bowie fanatic.

KorvinStarmast

@Ben I liked it back when it came out, I wonder how I'll receive it if I see it again.

Ben

@KorvinStarmast To be truthful, I often don't like older movies, but that one I didn't mind

KorvinStarmast

1:29 AM

Ok, so maybe it is like a wine that ages well.

MikeQ

Stack question: What's the protocol when a new user creates a new account and re-asks their deleted question?

KorvinStarmast

flag it

trogdor

Yep

Flag it

KorvinStarmast

the mods can fuse the accounts

Ben

Even the... (not sure of the right adjective here)… stage acting didn't bother me

@KorvinStarmast Can also help them figure out how to recover their accounts

KorvinStarmast

1:31 AM

yeah, that too

trogdor

@BESW I think in all honesty I would probably be fine watching Space is the Place

It's just real weird

BESW

You might understand more of the Black Lightning jokes!

trogdor

Really?

That is also weird

Ben

So yes. She is a Bowie fanatic, to the point where she will determine if she wants to continue a conversation with someone based on their opinion of him. She is planning a tattoo sleeve dedicated to him, and listens to Bowie more than 99% of the time.

She is also 25. Which I feel adds to that whole image

BESW

...really what I'd love to track down is video recordings of live performances by George Clinton and Sun Ra.

@trogdor The George Clinton/Sun Ra music scene is their go-to pop culture reference for jokes about the superhero costumes.

trogdor

1:36 AM

Ok then

MikeQ

@BESW Ok I read up on Space is the Place, it has too much heart to be compared with The Apple

nitsua60

@doppelgreener I was about to do some sleuthing and drop a comment or two on that likely duplicate-account flagged post. But I see you're in there too--let me know if you're halfway through something and I'll pull back rather than duplicate our efforts.

BESW

@MikeQ Yeah, I got confused because the Wiki placard for The Apple left out the S in its composer's name.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 I'm about to head off for the night (wow it's late) but my current guess is it's just two people who're playing together and one decided to ask the question with their own account instead of their friend's.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Then head out, good ghost--I'll drop a comment or two.

doppelgreener

1:40 AM

ok. :)

i'll leave it in your capable hands

ttfn!

nitsua60

help... piled. (Two good comments came in as I was writing mine.)

Ben

A drum and a cymbal fell off the shelf. Badum-tss

MikeQ

@BESW I only mentioned it because I took your question very literally. I wouldn't pair The Apple with Metropolis because I wouldn't pair The Apple with anything

BESW

Fair enough.

MikeQ

Although, maybe your discerning eye can find some value in it

BESW

1:47 AM

I do occasionally enjoy really bad cinema. And most memetically bad cinema is at least entertaining; the truly awful films are never talked about because they're so boring nobody watches them in the first place.

Even Battlefield Earth is engaging to watch because it creates strong emotions in its audience.

Ben

Speaking of - I saw Captain Marvel over the weekend. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it

BESW

I found it very entertaining and fun. Its problems mostly came from being part of a franchise that's visibly starting to split at the seams.

MikeQ

I liked it. Didn't feel like the writers were just going through the checklist of Marvel movie components.

BESW

Yeah, when it was its own movie it was good!

But it got crammed with a lot of franchise upkeep work that kept crowding out the Captain Marvel movie I came to see.

Ben

It came across as its own movie, but if you didn't have any knowledge of any other Marvel movies, a lot of it wouldn't make much sense.

Even when you did know a lot about it all, it was a bit tricky to follow at times

MikeQ

1:59 AM

I suppose that's what happens when a movie is designed not to be a standalone film, but as a big part of a larger cinematic continuity

Ben

Other than that (and my personal feelings about Sam Jackson) it was an enjoyable movie

MikeQ

Aww you didn't like 90s Good Cop Nick Fury?

Ben

I did... when I look back on it all, I have no real issues with it

V2Blast

I am excited to watch it

Ben

My issue is actually from The Hitman's Bodyguard.

BESW

2:02 AM

In the context of the film on its own, Fury worked well. But the film's focus on his facial injuries would have been baffling for anyone who didn't know about his eyepatch from other movies. Similarly, Coulson served no purpose in the film except to remind you that he exists--I'm guessing because they want to have him show up in Infinity War or something.

Ben

Basically, Samuel Jackson is one of those characters that can't really break away from his own persona, IMO. Like, every time I see him, I don't see the character, I see Jackson.

Fury on the other other hand, he works well in. So much so that I can see past Jackson, and identify the character as Fury, if that all makes sense

BESW

@Ben I think I get it, except that for 90s Nick Fury I kept seeing his character from Die Hard III.

Ben

A little bit, yeah.

BESW

But yeah, there are some actors who are almost always "[actor] in [movie]" rather than "[character] played by [actor]."

Harrison Ford made a solid career off that too.

Ben

My issue is that in Hitman's Bodyguard, his character is never wrong, everything he does is above and beyond, and even when he creates chaos, it always comes back around as the best thing to do. For whatever reason. Needless to say that performance (or at least that character) has had a fairly big impact upon me

@BESW Yes.

Will Poulter is actually one of my favourite actors for the exact opposite reason

BESW

2:08 AM

I've barely seen him in anything, but I know the kind of actor you're talking about.

Ben

He plays the "strong man" in Maze Runner, the annoying tag-along cousin in Narnia, and the dorky teen in We are the Millers. Each role I see him in is a completely different character. Which I feel is done really really well

@BESW Tom Cruise is a prime example of this

BESW

And then there's actors who are used as [actor] in [film] despite them being totally capable disappearing into their character work if the director lets them.

Bruce Willis used to be that, I'm not sure he cares enough to even try anymore. But watch him in Death Becomes Her some time.

Ben

I suppose there are various degrees... on one end, you remember the character, not the actor, on the other end you remember the actor and not the character.

BESW

And Keanu Reeves is actually a really great character actor if you get him a director and a DP who know how to use him.

Henry's Crime is a great example of how to use your Keanu Reeves to subvert expectations.

Ben

I feel like Harrsion Ford is probably somewhere in the middle? Like, no one can do Han Solo/Indiana Jones, except Harrison Ford.

BESW

2:12 AM

Yes, but that's because they ARE Harrison Ford.

He's got some range, but it's mostly a volume/intensity control.

Ben

Yeah. I think it's probably like a half/half thing... Ford brought them to life, with such energy that it is the foundation of who they are. Whereas Cruise is just Cruise. I do not remember the names of any roles he plays.

I think the only one is Jack Ryder, because that's the name of the film. Lol

BESW

And then there's the actors who have amazing range but can't control it. 2000s-era David Tennant, I'm looking at you.

I didn't realize just how out of control he was until I saw him in Hamlet and every time Hamlet got excited he turned into the Doctor.

Ben

Maybe? I honestly haven't seen much of his work - Dr Who primarily, and Jessica Jones.

@BESW Ah right

BESW

He seemed to learn a lot on Broadchurch, and was much more in control in Jessica Jones.

Ben

Oh and Harry Potter. That was just... odd

BESW

2:18 AM

His voice work is almost always just "Do the Doctor voice!" but I'll chalk that up to direction.

Professor Honeycutt was completely undifferentiable from the Doctor.

Ben

Was he in St Trinnians?

BESW

...which reminds me of Arthur Darvill visibly trying to break out of his Rory character in the early parts of Legends of Tomorrow.

@Ben St Trinian's 2, yes.

Ben

Yeah. I can remember being excited to watch it, but now I don't really remember much of it at all

BESW

@Ben "Cameo as insane man with no characterization" has got to be hard.

Ben

"Who's British and eccentric?"

MikeQ

2:50 AM

@Ben and lives under the sea?

Ben

My head immediately jumped to a French variation of Spongebob then... for some reason.

MikeQ

@Bookwyrm Ahoy and welcome to the frustrated DMs club

trogdor

Shalvenay

hey again @Bookwyrm

trogdor

Bookwyrm is an awesome name by the way

MikeQ

2:56 AM

@Bookwyrm You mentioned a session zero. Do your players know (out of game) that there is a story that you want them to follow?

BESW

Shalvenay

3:11 AM

hey there @DaleM :)

V2Blast

3:23 AM

the grab tag could use some tag info

also maybe it should be merged with the grapple tag, idk

Glazius

Mmm.

Do I really feel like declaring it exclusively the provenance of the 4e grapple-light state and playing tag police?

Could probably stand to be synonymized with grapple, given that the idea of that thing extends beyond just D&D.

Oh, I don't have the score for it.

Hmm.

Ben

3:40 AM

Just got clarification about my Corruption - They suggested that I impose disadvantage on Wisdom, and advantage on Intelligence, because "Int is stuff you know; Wis is spacial awareness/ social understanding"

Which I suppose makes sense. Your knowledge is being increased - seeing and hearing things others don't comprehend, and you ignore your surroundings more.

Glazius

If you wanted to get cute you could give people a corruption die and get spookity if it rolls higher and hits or rolls lower and misses.

Er, to roll advantage, I mean. One of 'em black with red numbers on d20s or like that.

Ben

@Glazius So, embrace the corruption to try and impose advantage?

Glazius

Nah, just flavor.

Ben

Not sure I understand what you mean then

Glazius

"Goodness, these ruins were set down during the reign of King Mushushu the first, 1500 years ago! THEN HE DIED AS ALL THINGS MUST."

Or were you just talking about saves?

Ben

3:53 AM

Checks and saves

user15026

4:59 AM

@BESW this took me longer than I want to admit to to figure out what was going on

Ben

Welcome to the RPG.SE lair, where the conversation topic changes at the suggestion of the DM asking for a Perception check

trogdor

@Ash to be fair it's a fairly weird,... Crossover

user15026

This is true, and I forgot about the older style logo.

V2Blast

5:24 AM

@Glazius I've suggested it on meta:

0

Q: Should the [grab] tag be merged with the [grapple] tag?

I just noticed that the grab tag existed recently because I saw it added to a Pathfinder question. It seems very similar in scope to the grapple tag. The grapple tag info/wiki says: For questions about grappling — wrestling, or engaging in unarmed, nonlethal combat where the goal is often to...

trogdor

@Ash older style logo?

Ben

5:52 AM

@trogdor [Secretly watches from the sidelines because I too, apparently missed the reference]

V2Blast

Judging from the outfits in that second SpongeBob image: Doctor Who

Ben

Oh right! I should have recognised that scarf

The Oracle

0

Q: Should the [grab] tag be merged with the [grapple] tag?

I just noticed that the grab tag existed recently because I saw it added to a Pathfinder question. It seems very similar in scope to the grapple tag. The grapple tag info/wiki says: For questions about grappling — wrestling, or engaging in unarmed, nonlethal combat where the goal is often to...

discussion tags synonymization

trogdor

6:26 AM

I assume it's like, the older logo for either Spongebob or Dr Who

BESW

Ben

Yeah, That one

BESW

Fourth Doctor era logo.

Ben

Same as the scarf :P

trogdor

oooooh in the corner

Ben

6:30 AM

G-9. Ha. Love it

trogdor

I hadn't even seen that

Ben

Who is Plankton meant to be? It looks like he has a Goatee, so I'm guessing the Master?

BESW

6:52 AM

Sounds right.

user15026

@trogdor oh I just figured I had remembered it wrong and assumed I had forgotten and maybe that had always been the logo and was sitting here all worried I had messed up the references and was feeling so awkward

trogdor

@Ash oh

I just thought you recognized something I hadn't seen

which actually was right

user15026

Yep. My brain just gets scrambly sometimes because I do have a lot of memory leaks.

user15026

So I tend to assume I've forgotten a thing rather that anything else

trogdor

I have that for people's names, under certain circumstances

like people who I have known long enough it's no issue

people who I have been Aquanted with who's name I should supposedly know by now though,......

user15026

7:13 AM

Oh names are so slippery.

user15026

Names and faces are hard.

user15026

A lot of things are slippery but names and faces are super so

trogdor

7:49 AM

mm I actually like

I remember faces really well

which makes it weird when I remember someones face and I know I am supposed to know them, and I don't

especially if they start talking to me like they expect me to know who they are

and I know it isn't a mistake because that face is in the memory banks

and I mean,... my memory is usually pretty good for other stuff

especially specifically stuff I have read

but man people's names just slip right out of there

kviiri

8:53 AM

Hello

trogdor

hi

Derpy

morning

SmokeDetector

9:50 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body, potentially bad ns for domain in body, potentially bad keyword in body (101): On the brink of know about the blessings of this product! by zamzem on rpg.SE (@doppelgreener)

doppelgreener

11:52 AM

@Rubiksmoose Thanks for the poke about the character sheet. I've deleted your comment and mine so I can avoid misleading and confusing the querent.

goodguy5

12:06 PM

groan

kviiri

1:47 PM

sup

goodguy5

so tired.

baby+DST= sad

kviiri

@goodguy5 Ow. Take care, friend

goodguy5

my sentiments exactly

Rubiksmoose

2:18 PM

@goodguy5 That's an OP combo.

goodguy5

@Rubiksmoose it definitely feels against designer intent

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 I think in this case you mean Designer (capital D) intent ;)

GreySage

3:36 PM

I have been smitten by the dreaded curse known as Daylight-Savings Time.

Derpy

@GreySage You mean the evil conspiracy the farmers started to kidnap an hour as a revenge against city folks who eat their vegetables?

vicky_molokh

Everyone should just live by UTC. ^_^

Derpy

@vicky_molokh balpha time.

and in case you don't get it, either ask balpha or look here

(I suggest looking at the link - it's actually pretty funny and you may discover a part of Stack Exchange history that you didn't knew about)

Rubiksmoose

4:06 PM

Second opinions: Is the edit to this question enough to make it not a dupe? I'm leaning towards yes.

The question of unarmed strike and whether it counts towards threat when "unavailable" and if you can let go and strike (or strike with another appendage) gives it a slight nuance that the other doesn't seem to explicitly cover.

doppelgreener

4:20 PM

I just noticed this room has over a million all-time messages. (1095k at the moment.)

Rubiksmoose

woohoo!

nitsua60

@doppelgreener What fraction do you think you've read?

doppelgreener

maybe ten percent at a generous estimate

i'm not very good at reading backlogs

Rubiksmoose

I'm not good at reading any logs! Must be a druid thing ;)

doppelgreener

4:42 PM

@Rubiksmoose i get it :D

Rubiksmoose

I'll take it! lol

Rubiksmoose

4:53 PM

Huh, instead of getting hit by DST in the form of tiredness I seem to be maniacally cheerful today lol.

doppelgreener

that sounds positive

doppelgreener

5:06 PM

@Rubiksmoose FWIW, on this comment, you may be interested to know that a number of other systems actually do feature various things that address that problem of players not hooking into what the GM's doing.

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener oh yeah I'm sure. But I don't think that answer is very useful regardless. Asking a DM to ditch a whole campaign/system and start over with new ones is very rarely (in my experience) a useful recommendation for a querent.

At least the way I read it.

I think there are definitely cases where it can be useful and is the best answer, I just think this one is suggesting something much more drastic than is needed here.

doppelgreener

Since the players aren't buying into it in the first place, it sounds like the kind of thing I'd do.

(Just to be clear I'm not saying the answer's great since it should also talk about how to resolve this in D&D if it wanted to be great, nor calling out your comments as at all inappropriate — this is something I'm leaving in the community's ballpark to work through.)

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener Hmmm but they've already played and completed multiple 5e campaigns together. It seems to me that OP is asking how to get the PCs to engage with the plot devices they are throwing at them. But the PCs are much mroe interested in other things like combat.

Xirema

I think the person giving the answer is 100% correct in their observations about the limitations of 5th Edition D&D's rules for non-combat role-playing, but yeah, "just change to a different game system" is not good advice; you can't just transplant an entire campaign to another system without putting in a lot of work converting things.

Rubiksmoose

I'm not sure how the suggestion for switching to a new RP-focused system would help that in particular. Or am I misreading the situation here?

@Xirema oh yeah they are spot-on on 5e's weaknesses and something I fully agree with.

Xirema

5:15 PM

Critical Role might have done that, but they at least had the benefit of converting from "d20-based game derived from the traditions of wargaming simulators" to "d20-based game derived from the traditions of wargaming simulators".

Rubiksmoose

In this case, the PCs seem averse to RP if anything. So I would have suggested moving to a more combat focused system if anything right?

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose problem: players don't hook into anything story-related. solution: other games have explicit mechanics that guide players into the stories which D&D altogether lacks, or an overall framework that makes "players wander around not doing story things" an almost unheard of (and easily managed) eventuality.

Rubiksmoose

I can see what you are saying and I guess it all depends on what you think the issue the players are experiencing actually is.

Because if the players are not engaging because they don't want plot or RP, then forcing the group into an RP heavy system is just going to cause more issues right?

If they aren't engaging because 5e is not providing the right tools to inspire them to engage with that aspect though, I can see how switching would help.

@doppelgreener But don't get me wrong! I really appreciate the comment. I hadn't considered the problem from that vantage point at all. So thanks for that :)

doppelgreener

5:37 PM

@Rubiksmoose also true

@Rubiksmoose 'cause they don't exist

D&D 5e is not just not providing the right tools, it doesn't provide the tools, really, and provides a lot contrary to the goal

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener absolutely they don't. I fully believe that most of the great stories that come out of D&D come in spite of the system, not because of it.

At least narrative stories., Tales of mechanical hijinks and such are at least mostly encouraged by the system and do provide that kind of entertainment in droves for those that want it.

Evenin'

Evening o/

What's up?

Just ragging on D&D currently ;)

you?

kviiri

5:45 PM

Hey me too! (elsewhere, and not very much)

Although I should be working on my research code :)

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri well then whadya doing here! We'll just distract you lol

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose I need intermittent breaks to recharge!

Plus I'm quite down on my social meters

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri that is very fair.

Which is the perfect cue for chat to go dead of course

kviiri

Agreed

KorvinStarmast

brains ... as chat goes undead ...

Rubiksmoose

5:55 PM

Has anybody played any interesting non-D&D RPGs lately?

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose Lady Blackbird was fun at least! And I'm having lots of fun role-playing in Kaiserreich although that probably doesn't count :>

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri I really want to play LB.

It is on my shortlist for my group. Though because of rotating DMs my opportunity only comes every so often.

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose It's pretty good! I mean, the system's not really very special itself, but it's just so easy to take for a spin.

And the advice on how to run it is solid

Rubiksmoose

I'm still reading and listening and prepping for my upcoming game of Paranoia and feeling excited and a bit anxious at the shift in tone, rules, and party mentality and how my players will like/adapt to it.

Then again, I'm always anxious about something and RPGs I've run have tended to come out better than I've feared.

@kviiri I've sadly not even read though it yet (though I know I can for free)

Sam

@KorvinStarmast @Rubiksmoose umm my question about what happens to a shapeshifter who gains an alter

Rubiksmoose

6:05 PM

@doppelgreener can you add a comment to this post about being able to edit and reopen with a mod flag? I'm worried that they are new and won't know they can do this.

Sam

Sorry I'm having trouble with this sites chat feature on my phone. On moment

Rubiksmoose

@Sam no worries :)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, toxic answer detected (160): How can I get players to focus on the story aspect of D&D? by Adam Prime on rpg.SE (@doppelgreener)

Sam

@KorvinStarmast @Rubiksmoose umm my question about what happens to a shapeshifter who gains a template while in an alternate form has been put on hold for not being clear and specific but I edited my question to be more clear and specific before it got put on hold. I'm not sure how to reword my question to be even more clear and specific than what I edited it to. Since you guys were 2 who put it on hold, could you help me reword it? I thought my edit was pretty clear cut so I'm at a loss here.

kviiri

@SmokeDetector Ugh, seriously

Rubiksmoose

6:10 PM

1

Q: What happens if a creature that's assumed an alternate form gains a template?

If I have a shapeshifting character who's currently in human form and magical shenanigans ensue which grants him a template, what happens when he shifts to a new form or back to his original form? Does he retain the template in all forms? Only his original form? Or only in the human form? More s...

dnd-3.5e character-templates

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose Hehe :) No rush. It's a fairly quick one, at its core

The roll system isn't exactly complex but we still managed to play it wrong (or my players managed to)

Sam

@Rubiksmoose yes, that's the one

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri It isn't letting me see what was flagged. Did you catch it?

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose Flagged rude or abusive

Sam

@Rubiksmoose I'm at a loss because I gave a precise scenario afterwards so I'm really not sure what I could add

Rubiksmoose

6:14 PM

@Sam unfortunately I'm not experienced in 3.5 enough to help reopen it for sure. Let me give it another lookover though and see if there are any suggestions I can make.

kviiri

@Sam Hello o/

Sam

@kviiri hello

Honestly I'd appreciate any help from anyone.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, toxic answer detected (160): How can I get players to focus on the story aspect of D&D? by Adam Prime on rpg.SE

kviiri

I can't really help with 3.5e, all that template stuff is quite foreign to me

Frankly, based on what little I know of them I'm only happy I haven't had them in any game I've played x)

Xirema

@Sam The question seems answerable, but I don't have 3.5 experience, so I could be wrong about that.

doppelgreener

6:20 PM

@Rubiksmoose I'm not fully across what's going on, is that a comment you're able to leave or do you think it needs to come from a diamond? You are one of the most senior community members, and you can also say things like that to teach people about process.

(man, I remember when you were new like it was last week, but all of a sudden you're at nearly 60k)

kviiri

Rubiksmoose is to rep like post-WWII Japan was to GDP

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener well it is deleted now (for better or worse) so I can't leave a comment. But I did make an edit which presumably fixes the issue and left the suggestion in the edit description.

Daw :) It does seem like not that long ago doesn't it?

doppelgreener

The question's not deleted, did you mean that answer from the Adam dude?

They seem to be rage quitting the site so I'm gonna just leave it be.

Rubiksmoose

Oh yeah. Oops. I guess it would help if I specified that wouldn't it?

Ah ok.

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose yes lol

Rubiksmoose

6:27 PM

Well then. Sorry for that pointless diversion.

doppelgreener

No worries

Sam

So I decided to edit my profile and became confused when i tried to change my profile pic. It gave me one option, which was kinda a purple version of what i already had but it said i could use the whole site to upload pics. How do i do that?

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri oh dear lol

@Sam hmm let me see if I can figure out what the option you are referring to is

can you upload a screen shot here by any chance?

@Sam yeah I think if you 1) pop into at some other time you might have more luck (we do have knowledgeable 3.5 people about). You could also post a comment on your question and ask that. 2) 3.5 people might read through these logs later and be able to help you regardless of if you are in here. I am legitimately sorry for not being able to help though.

doppelgreener

6:44 PM

@Sam you choose between either the gravatar linked to your email, or you can upload an avatar image directly to stack exchange. Gravatar is basically an "upload your avatar once, use it in several sites" service.

In lieu of an uploaded avatar it gives you an automatically generated geometric one.

kviiri

I used my geometric one for ages until I decided to use an otter type of avatar

GreySage

@Sam Embrace your inner geometry, my brother!

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri You just decided one day you otter change it huh?

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose Yeah. Too bad I'm out of otter puns to make now

Rubiksmoose

Yeah I'm sure you've never heard that one before.

kviiri

6:47 PM

:-)

@kviiri dawwwwwwwww

We watch otter videos with my SO (significant otter) quite often. She affectionately refers to Ryer's species, the North American river otter, as "spade noses" because their nose looks a bit like the suit of spades in playing cards

And sea otters are sea teddies.

Sam

@kviiri well it seems I cannot brain today for I has the dumb. Now I can't even figure out how to get back into profile editing to take a snapshot. I am not on my game today.

goodguy5

@kviiri sea lingerie?

Rubiksmoose

Otters are adorable. When holding hands it increases 1000%