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12:08 AM
@JoelHarmon The actor from Powder?
@nitsua60 Can't say I've seen that whole thing.
I don't think I've seen any of it?
@BESW There are Redwall films, and while I may be a former Redwall fan, I think Mouseguard deserves it more. It's gotta happen.
1 hour later…
1:10 AM
And Redwall didn't start out as a comic.
1:23 AM
I want to get the Redwall series (its a big collection, I know)
The novels, that is
They're pretty good.
With some early exceptions they're very repetitive.
It's been a while since I read them, but they're pretty long and satisfying.
@BESW that is also true.
And there are some... problems... with their moral implications regarding free will, inherited sin, and genetic predisposition for character traits.
In truth I read them a good 10 years ago. Just sitting in the aisle of the library on the floor reading each one
1:28 AM
hey there @SimonH.
Nothing exceptional in the context of the rest of the genre, but not challenging the genre's problems in the slightest either. Even Tintin eventually started calling out its own earlier prejudices.
I was a bit taken aback by the threats in the books, given their usual status as YA novels, as far as I am aware
I remember once a badger threatened to stuff a rat's eyes down its throat and tear out its internal organs
I was shocked.
@Shalvenay Hey!
@SimonH. I had a friend who called them "the rodent violence books."
Different generations I suppose haha
@BESW That's an unfortunately apt description. Slavery, torture, gore, and borderline genocide.
1:33 AM
But while they were definitely gory, they weren't violent in the service of much except being violent. Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of N.I.M.H. was less graphic but much more disturbing because its topics weren't just pablum about the evil necessity of war.
@BESW Oh boy, that's a throwback. I forgot I even read that.
Also a book with an unpleasant moral, but at least it was consciously building to its apocalyptic message about the irredeemable nature of human society.
Redwall doesn't really seem aware of its theme that good people are isolated communities constantly in danger from congenitally evil outsiders, and the only defense is all-out war without honor or quarter.
@SimonH. what's up?
I wish they had fleshed out the rats more.
@Shalvenay just talking about rodent books :p
@BESW Simple plot to spend more time on characters :P
Again, 10 years. Fuzzy recollection don't hate me haha
1:41 AM
@SimonH. heheh
Outcast of Redwall was so almost good.
> Give him a name and leave him awhile,
Veil may live to be evil and vile,
Though I hope my prediction will fail,
And evil so vile will not live in Veil.
The ending was bittersweet, but the fact that the rat was evil because he was a rat and had to overcome that was disappointing.
(Spoilers: he was congenitally evil and being nurtured by the "good" guys didn't change that, all they could do was give him a redemption-equals-death conclusion.)
@BESW yeah, redemption from being a rat.
I just couldn't believe that. Outcast was one of the last ones I read because I read them out of order so I thought that the issue with rodents was more cultural, and that the villains were just from outer warrior tribes.
I thought maybe we would learn about core rat society and that they weren't all that different from mice, but in the end we found out just how little thought had been put into their creation.
I guess that makes sense, considering all the errors and inconsistencies involved in the original print version of Redwall, like the horse-drawn carriages and so on.
1:47 AM
Nooope. Rats are evil 'cause rats gonna rat. Or orcs. Or native tribes.
It's all the same euphemism-as-text with different stickers on top.
The outsider opposing us is less human than us, and we must be good so they must be irredeemably evil. But in fantasy it gets to be literal, not just propaganda.
Those black-and-white views of morality and birth are unsettling to me. I've had friends with prejudices that remind me a lot of how the mice see the rats in Redwall.
Yup. [sigh] I'm so happy I've found other, more nuanced, entries in the speculative fiction genres.
Wish I'd found them earlier.
@BESW Would you consider the idea that it's bad for children to be exposed to the sort of stories that reward prejudice in this way?
@BESW Like what? I'm interested in getting back into reading, but I'm not sure what to get into.
@MikeQ I think that's not a useful way to phrase the issue, because it presents a false dichotomy that implies a failure of the adults in the kids' lives to engage with the kids about the ideas the kids encounter.
@SimonH. Right now I'm a big fan of NK Jemisin, Ann Leckie, Ursula Vernon (T Kingfisher), Nnedi Okorafor...
1:55 AM
I am personally glad my mouse books didn't have those themes as a kid
@MikeQ For example, I read the Tintin books as a kid. The early ones are super racist and the later ones actively work to engage positively with diverse cultures. It was a great opportunity for my parents to talk with me about recognizing prejudices and overcoming them when I notice them in myself.
Mouse and the motorcycle didn't have war in it XD
@SimonH. yeah -- I'm developing an acquired distaste for that sort of thing myself. some contexts make it harder to deal with than others, though.
Though it may have still been racist against cats
@trogdor Well, the mouse and the motorcycle didn't have much dialogue in it either.
1:57 AM
(Similarly when I was much younger we talked about how the characters in Sesame Street are often quite mean, teasing and tricking each other. That was much better for me than either just keeping me from watching it, or letting me watch it without helping me develop critical tools.)
@trogdor If you're referring to Biker Mice from Mars, that is literally how the series started.
@Ben No, the book titled The Mouse and the Motorcycle by Beverly Cleary.
I learned something here today
@Ben no it's a book
It's about a mouse who can make toy vehicles move if he makes the engine noises with his mouth.
1:59 AM
Biker Mice from Mars isn't what I said XD
There's at least one sequel novel, and a sincere but cringey film.
I just remember the first book
Cleary is better known for the Ramona series, and Dear Mr. Henshaw.
I may or may not have even read the second one
@BESW and go backwards if he makes the sound backward
2:00 AM
@Ash XD
Her Henry Huggins books were some of the first chapter books I read myself.
I have a soft spot for the Ramona Quimby books.
Cleary had a gift for writing from a little kid's perspective of personal logic (and lack thereof) without condescension or judgement.
I don't think I read anything else by the author
@BESW Fair enough. My upbringing was different, so I usually lack insight into questions about how most people think.
2:02 AM
I wanted mice in my books at first because my favorite picture book had a mouse
@SimonH. What kinds of things do you look for in a book?
Certain ideas, characters, settings, feelings?
@BESW Usually worldbuilding and character progression, specifically.
The edge chronicles aren't particularly good, but I like them because I'm fascinated by the setting.
Okay, hm. Digger for sure.
I know the Chronicles of Narnia are fairly well-respected books, but I don't like them because a lot of the characters and settings seemed shallow to me at the time.
Jemisin's "Broken Earth" series.
2:05 AM
I second both of those recs
Leckie's "Imperial Radch" series, probably.
@SimonH. Are you familiar with the Discworld series from Terry Pratchett?
@MikeQ I've heard of them, but no, I've never read them.
T Kingfisher's "Clocktaur War" duology, for sure.
Okorafor's "Binti" trilogy: Girl leaves home, returns home, becomes home.
@BESW Oh wow, that one looks neat. Thanks, BESW.
2:09 AM
@SimonH. They're quite fun!
Ash has probably read everything I'm recommending.
@BESW The Akata Witch stuff too by her, if YA is acceptable
@BESW I have! The only one I didn't love was Imperial Radch
What do you guys think is the difference between YA and other genres? I'd think that means less complicated subjects, but I think I'm wrong.
Yes, Sunny's Adventures ("Akata Witch/Warrior" in the US) are good.
@SimonH. age of protagonists, mostly
It certainly does not mean less complex subjects
2:11 AM
@SimonH. It's largely a marketing term, applied by publishers rather than authors to describe the group they think will be most likely to buy the book.
There's no coherent content-based guidelines, it changes dramatically over time.
I feel like that label is to the book's detriment, though, because then people think its for children.
@SimonH. Average quality. I find that a lot of YA dilute their storytelling to cater to a target audience, which usually means making a simplified ripoff of a more popular story
Not to mention I'm the only child I knew at that age who was reading at all.
@SimonH. Often true, but youth readership is a massive target audience on it own.
@MikeQ oh honey you have been reading the wroooong YA then :/
2:14 AM
@SimonH. I'd say there is less sex and less explicit violence in general. The worst stuff oversimplifies things; the best deals with things in a fairly mature manner, at least by the end.
The idea of "books for kids" is relatively young, and suffers from periods of inundation by cheap cash-grab series (usually ghostwritten and published monthly).
@JoelHarmon That's a good point. With YA you won't find as much using gratuitous sex/gore/shock jockeying
But none of these qualities is necessary to the label.
Animorphs is a deliberately YA-targeted series about child soldiers that doesn't shy away from the horrific psychological trauma they endure.
Yeah YA books don't seem to have a fully coherent similarity other than being labeled as such
@BESW Fair enough. I think the most accurate, but least useful, is to point out that YA is a description of the intended audience, not necessarily the work itself.
2:16 AM
And the stigma that come with that label too
(Animorphs also deals with body horror, war crimes of various sorts... [shudder] It was great.)
I have caught myself thinking on occasion that YA meant heavy handed black and white plotlines
@BESW I liked animorphs,... But there were too many books
@trogdor It does in cases when the book was engineered and marketed toward YA audiences
I felt like it was being milked on the same themes too long for me
@BESW those books messed me up sometimes
2:18 AM
"Teenagers like to rebel, so let's make the protagonist a teenager who is rebelling against an evil regime. They're evil because they're in charge."
@MikeQ yes but, it isn't a fair universal label
Especially the last like 5 or so when shit ramped up
The "Akata" series which started this part of the conversation is pretty solidly YA in terms of marketing and readability, but it's absolutely a great series for any age.
Deals with very real weighty and intractable issues with nuance and compassion.
@MikeQ Teach them marxism when they're young, eh?
No offense.
@trogdor Hence the "in cases". I'm not saying that YA is inherently a A or B or C, however due to the law of large numbers, you end up with a lot of lazy authors who just recycle what's already popular
2:21 AM
@MikeQ I didn't mean you were, I actually just meant to refer to how I myself had applied the label in a general manner myself before
@SimonH. Might I recommend Brandon Sanderson's Warbreaker book?
@JoelHarmon Thanks man, I'll look into it
[still rummaging through GoodReads lists]
@SimonH. Fair warning: I recommend pretty much everything he's written, except for the Stormlight Archive series, which I love. It's great, but he just put out book 3 of 10, and they're each over 1000 pages. At one every other year, I'll be waiting until 2030 to get the last one. Ask a George R.R. Martin fan about that.
Oh! @SimonH. Bujold's Five Gods books. If you read just one, make it Paladin of Souls.
2:27 AM
@JoelHarmon Oh lord. I have enough trouble waiting for new video game releases :o
If you like horror, Victor LaValle and Mira Grant have you covered.
@SimonH. Hence the warning.
(LaValle's Ballad of Black Tom is especially fascinating because it's a compassionate re-telling of one of Lovecraft's more unashamedly racist stories--and yes, that's a high bar to clear--from the perspective of the black man he cast as the villain.)
Neil Gaiman is very weird, but has an excellent writing style. Patrick Rothfuss' Name of the Wind was also very good, but I was less impressed by its sequel. Still looking forward to the end of the trilogy, and the supplementary novella and short stories were also very good.
I found Gaiman very repetitive; whichever of his works you read first will probably be the ones you like most because they'll be the ones that feel new and innovative.
2:30 AM
@JoelHarmon ...and I was waiting for someone to mention Kingkiller Chronicles. Yeah... it starts great (book 1) and then takes a weird direction (book 2) and I can't really make myself interested in reading any more of Rothfuss's work
He's often heralded as a scholar of story who combines many different kinds of historical story elements to make new stories which feel timeless, but... he's honestly not drawing from a very big pool.
@SimonH. Atomic Robo is a fun action-adventure comic.
Parts of Wise Man's Fear were very good, but I don't think becoming some awesome sex ninja significantly contributed to either the development of his character or the world, so a good chunk of that book was 'meh' for me. I do know people who really liked it, though.
@JoelHarmon It was great until he met the lust fairy. Then it just went bonkers.
BTW, @JoelHarmon, these recs are in the context of wanting speculative fiction which doesn't indulge in the common black-and-white morality of prejudices like savagification.
No groups that are congenitally acceptable targets, like orcs or rats, for example.
@BESW Ah, thanks. I didn't quite backscroll far enough, then; I stopped when I thought it was generic book recommendations based off character and world building.
2:36 AM
46 mins ago, by Simon H.
Those black-and-white views of morality and birth are unsettling to me. I've had friends with prejudices that remind me a lot of how the mice see the rats in Redwall.
In that case, I'd have recommended Sanderson's Stormlight Archive, because there's a race that's explicitly considered inferior. Then you learn more about them and what they do, and it's heartbreaking.
I mentioned that I was happy to have found a lot of speculative fiction which doesn't accept those tropes as a necessary part of the genre, and was asked for examples.
@NautArch In a case of weird recursion, that review in the New Yorker killed its own soul by using references to the soulless money grab that is the fashion industry.Given how pretentious New Yorker is as a rag, this does not surprise me: the writer being utterly not self aware .
The Expanse is a rage-inducing example of trying and failing miserably to describe a culturally diverse future where prejudice and bigotry takes other forms.
@BESW Books or show?
2:39 AM
The TV series does a bit better at it than the novels, but that's a low bar to hurdle.
@JoelHarmon Oh, wait, that was sandersen? I've always wanted to read that one.
The novels... well, they try but the authors have a distinct failure of imagination in the details.
I went to DetCon1, and Way of Kings was one of the books they were offering for free.
I instead picked up "Off Armageddon Reef" and later regretted that.
@BESW And Firefly was cancelled after on season. Such is showbiz
If you don't know what "Off Armageddon Reef" is, then that's pretty normal because it's not very good in my opinion
2:46 AM
Eh, I have no problem with Firefly being cancelled. It was too clever for its own good and running into Whedon Syndrom far earlier than most of his series.
Firefly was fun but I don't know if it would have continued to be
Especially if it was running in the direction of the movie
@trogdor I'm told the movie was a condensed version of what was planned for season 2 (and maybe 3?)
@SimonH. For something completely different, consider Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's Mycroft Holmes, in which Sherlock's brother goes to Trinidad to help his black friend expose a slavery conspiracy.
@BESW Mmm. Not really into mystery, but that sounds interesting.
It's not the best-written thing on the list, unfortunately, but it's not bad.
2:59 AM
For a I-thought-they-were-bad-but-they're-just-different, perhaps Jim Butcher's Codex Alera series? Basically, the Lost Roman Legion get personal elementals and start fighting bipedal canines and other foes.
Have you guys read NPCs?
I've heard good things about Codex Alera, but Dresden Files was so casual in its erasing of people of color (in Chicago of all places!) and the independent agency of women that I've felt like there are better uses of my reading time.
@BESW I vaguely recall different areas with different customs also having somewhat different skin color, but the main divides were either regional or racial (human vs. canine vs. ...), not sub-racial (ethnic? humans with different skin colors).
[wry] Human vs canine, etc, is going to be a euphemism for human vs human.
That's the way these things work: if not-humans are depicted as lesser people, it's with the same arguments used to depict certain groups of humans as less than people--that a fantasy world can make those racist arguments can true doesn't help, it just means somebody thought "What if racist justifications for dehumanization were valid?" is an interesting bit of worldbuilding. There are ways to confront and deconstruct this, but I don't suspect Butcher of having the wherewithal to do so.
And frankly I'm tired of the deconstructions too; I'm at the point of wanting my speculative fiction to explore other ways of thinking about people. Like in Binti, or Broken Earth, or Murderbot Diaries, or Imperial Radch.
Or, heck, Digger.
Which has hyena-like tribal cannibal warriors who are people based on sympathetic understandings of actual human societies with those cultural traits, rather than stereotypes of same.
There's never any sense of less-than-ing.
@BESW Do you mean "Digger, Volume 1"?
That's all I can find on goodreads.
3:14 AM
I mean the whole thing, Volumes 1 through 6 or the Omnibus collection. Which can all be read online for free also.
Oh, and if you ever do want to give mystery a try, there's the Peter Grant series, which is about a black British police officer who becomes the first wizard cop since WWII.
3:35 AM
@BESW In Codex Alera, the humans are actually weaker than any other species. The bipedal canines are eight or nine feet tall with heightened strength and reflexes (and also blood magic). The marauding tribes have a spirit-bind with animals that gives them varying traits of their partner animal, etc.
All the humans have going for them is that some of them bind varying strength elementals, and they have good logistics and phalanx tactics/discipline of the Romans.
Weakness is not the same as inhumanness. Often arguments against racial equality contain the belief that the "less human" group is strong like a work animal.
There's no one quality that's going to single out the work as more or less responsible on this topic, it's about presentation and treatment as much as the individual elements.
And every work is going to be better or worse in particular areas; there's no perfect example. Everything has problems and part of living in the world is figuring out how to deal with imperfect things without rejecting everything.
There's certainly inhuman-ness, but it's not subhuman-ness. And the strength seemed to be much more of a predator, rather than a worker.
@BESW did you ever read heart of a dog?
Cause that is exactly what that was XD
For me, Dresden Files made me feel ickier and ickier the more I read, and there are authors who don't make me feel icky, so I'm gonna focus on those instead of going back to give Butcher a "second" chance after giving him more than a half-dozen chances at Dresden.
@BESW oof yeah
I kept hoping Dresden Files would,... Stop doing that
3:41 AM
And that's not the same as authors I agree with, not by a long shot. I like Mrs. Frisby very much despite disagreeing with pretty much everything it has to say about society.
As far as I read it never did stop
@BESW same, sometimes the book is still good even if the message in it is disagreeable
1 hour later…
4:49 AM
Q: What To Do When There Are No Right Answers, Only Wrong Ones

NovakThis question, about the fairness of a 7-sided die, troubles me. It is in my opinion well-thought out and well-formulated. It is asking if a particular die has had any sort of rigorous analysis (physics-based or statistics-based) performed to test its fairness. That is simple, direct, and if s...

5:48 AM
@trogdor Yeah, it's good to read things that are outside one's comfort zone, but that doesn't necessarily mean reading poorly written things which don't know what they're saying, or giving any legitimacy to obviously toxic things which shouldn't be part of a reasonable discourse in the first place.
@BESW yeah I was just agreeing with you on your point
I wasn't saying reading something that obviously has several things wrong with it is a good idea
and or something that bothers you specifically because of the type of toxicity or writing mistakes it might have
@BESW In which of those categories would you put the works of Ayn Rand
Heh fair enough. I'll leave that one alone as to avoid triggering a politics land mine
5:57 AM
yay! I got to make two good categories!
somehow that makes me extremely happy every time it happens
6:12 AM
@MikeQ I mean, I should hope no one takes offense if people criticize Ayn Rand
but I supposed it hurts much less to just not take the chance
@trogdor Any worldview can be held by somebody - I'd rather not make fiat statements to put any down
that is entirely fair
Also I tend to use oversimplified / inaccurate language that I know causes @BESW's brain to itch unpleasantly
6:27 AM
But it's fun to do that to him :P
2 hours later…
8:01 AM
Hi all
@kviiri halloo!
8:28 AM
8:47 AM
@Anaphory Did you have lunch yet?
9:41 AM
Also don't forget to bring your swimming trunks in case a good opportunity presents itself
Q: Is there a spell, weapon, or effect that causes permanent and irrevocable death?

PiomicronGoing by RAW, is there a way to (reliably) kill someone that cannot be undone? Short of outright wishing it'd never happened, I mean. I don't mean just Imprisonment, or whatever. The creature has to actually be dead, and this death has to actually be non-undoable by using something like True Res...

I wonder if it's possible to do this by draining the subject's constitution and levels.
Or does that work only in D&D 3.5?
Well, the problem is that "irrevocable" always boils down to the GM deciding whether Wish can do it.
10:16 AM
@kviiri That's a thing I forgot 3 weeks ago, unfortunately.
No, I haven't had lunch.
I don't know much about your tastes, but there's a very good ramen place in the old market hall of Hietalahti and my SO just asked me if we could go there. (she also likes the milkshake bar conveniently next to it, hehe)
Also conveniently, the best burger place in Helsinki, if that's more your style :)
I have a preference for vegetarian stuff if given a choice, does the ramen place have veggie ramen?
One reason I didn't even grab a sandwich is that I found a new way to mess up train ticket bookings: I have booked for the wrong week, the wrong month, the wrong time-of-day and the wrong destination in the past and learned to check these. This time I managed to book the wrong direction, Helsinki→Turku, without noticing until I was in Turku station; the train I needed left 12 minutes earlier than the time I had in mind, so I was in a rush.
I mostly noticed because there was no 12:37 train on the departures board, only a 12:25 one, so I checked my ticket whether I accidentally managed to find some other train station of Turku (suburban or something) for departure. But no, Turku was just the destination of my ticket.
Maybe at some point I'll have learned booking exactly the ticket I need. This is not that time, though.
10:34 AM
The only problem with Fat Ramen is that it's a bit of a walk to there from your hotel
Is it a walk through a nice area?
Which might be a problem if you're hungry then and there :)
I may be hungry, but over the last weeks my body should have got used to irregular feeding, so I don't anticipate that being a problem.
The tram connection is also pretty good
if you want to buy a ticket
@Ben honestly one of the best perks of being a diamond moderator is being able to edit my comments no matter how old they are
10:47 AM
Getting a 72-hour tram ticket for core Helsinki sounds practical, I guess.
10:58 AM
@AVeryLargeBear Hi!
@AVeryLargeBear Hi!
What's new?
@Anaphory Depends a bit on where you want to go. HSL (the mass transit authority) sells relevant tickets of three categories: tram, city-wide and metropolitan area. City-wide works on the buses, metro and Suomenlinna ferry (not on the Vallisaari ferry, though) and the metropolitan area works if you want to go to the neighboring towns of Vantaa or Espoo
Espoo has the Nuuksio nature park, Vantaa has the Kuusijärvi lake and sauna. Of course determining if a three day ticket is worth it for possible visits is a problem of optimization :)
anyway, this reminds me, I need to start packing up my things so you won't have to wait for me
I'll keep popping by in chat en route
11:25 AM
I'll probably chat to you about it when there, but probably a 48h city-wide would be good, for getting to the airport on Sunday I need a regional one anyway so it's not worth trying to include that in the other one, and I saw that HSL has 48h ones (in Copenhagen and Stockholm it was just 24 or 72h).
11:42 AM
Anothet stackizen is joining us, btw. Ilmari Karonen
@Ben (If it's really bugging you and it's unambiguously improvable, an elected moderator can go back and edit anyone's comment. The other three probably wouldn't abuse their powers this way, but I'm clearly a lower-character mod.)
@kviiri \o/!
We're waiting at Arthur's restaurant
@doppelgreener Cool! I just dropped my backpack and will be on the way downstairs now.
@NautArch I see you're not on my punchspace game-organizing list. Would you like to be? The pitches people put together for the "summer season" are going out today for voting/selection/commitment/"Avengers, assemble!"
12:00 PM
@nitsua60 Hey, you know the Soulmonger question?
@Piomicron yup!
Are you ready for Tomb of Annihilation spoilers?
If so, I'll drop the answer in chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/66684/…
@nitsua60 let’s hear em
12:17 PM
Urrgh the haze from Kilauea is making it hard to think. Must be awful for the people actually in the same island chain.
Not as bad as when Anatahan erupts, of course. But if it continues it'll probably be like the 2015 Southeast Asian haze.
...wait, was it Anatahan or Pagan that erupted most recently? It's probably a sign of... something... when you can't remember which order your local volcanoes erupted in over the last ten years.
@BESW Has the haze blown across the pacific already? (As in, did it reach Guam?) ... I have an old memory of haze from Mt St Helens and Mt Pinatubo both spreadhing haze/dust across large amounts of the globe as the wind patterns did their work...
Yeah, we've had noticeable Kilauean haze for four or five days now.
They keep saying the winds will shift it away from us tomorrow... tomorrow... tomorrow...
My friends who just got back fro ma trip to Kuaii said that nothing had reached them yet. (Not sure whether local wind patterns blow the stuff away from them or not ...)
Hmm, heading to USGS for a few looks at what they have mapped out.
And depending on where they were visiting, there's mountains.
I live in an area of the island that's probably trapping the haze. [sigh]
My sinuses feel like they're filled with rocks.
12:33 PM
Heh, when I lived in Taiwan, we were above the city on a mountain, while those who lived in Taipei had to deal with the city being more or less surrounded on three sides by mountains, so with certain winds, it all blew in there and stayed there. Sorta like LA.
On the plus side it's not thick enough to form a visible coating on everything. Yet.
Both our local volcanoes and the 2015 Haze did that.
@BESW I wonder if it could have lasted three seasons (Firefly); at some point, what you say about the Whedon syndrome would certainly have arisen (IIRC Angel only lasted two seasons)
But our visibility has definitely dropped.
@KorvinStarmast Oh, Whedon Syndrome isn't getting cancelled.
Feb 21 '14 at 3:34, by BESW
Whedon Syndrome is what I call it when a show with a wide variety of interesting and engaging storytelling devices stops using them, and instead repeats this one formula: Choose a popular character. Make her happy. Take away her happiness as brutally as possible. Linger on her misery.
Feb 21 '14 at 3:34, by BESW
Bonus points if the happy/misery dynamic is romance-based.
Feb 15 at 22:09, by BESW
As in, "Dollhouse is specially designed to accomodate Whedon Syndrome," or "Agents of SHIELD is evidence that Whedon Syndrome is inherited."
Just popping by to fish for reopen votes (or discussion about how I should clarify the question) for: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/123672/…
Morning Nerds
12:47 PM
I just watched baby eagle poop
Is baby eagle still baby? He looks more teenage size
what kind of eagle?
@Ladifas Sorry don't know enough about dnd/bx to make any useful commentary
12:52 PM
@DavidCoffron I can't get it to load through the work filters :(
@BESW Hmm, I was never aware that the series "dollhouse" was a thing. I guess I stopped watching TV shows for a while; might take a look at season 1 if I can dig it up on Hulu or something, might not. Son and I have a date to watch a couple episodes of the new westworld, which has a different take on the robot/self awareness thing. (Season 1 was pretty good, albeit creepy).
@AVeryLargeBear Here's a picture to tide you over then:
@DavidCoffron Don't worry. I realise there's only a small subset of users who could satisfactorily answer the question. I'm just hoping that a slightly larger subset think that it can be answered!
12:54 PM
It's not as cute as I was hoping for ;)
But I guess most baby birds are ugly
@AVeryLargeBear Used to be way cuter
It's grown up, let me see if I can find some older pictures
@Ladifas Even without B/X experience (I was raised on BECMI), I think we can probably help talk through some of the question's issues. For me, it it screams both "this feels like fishing for ideas" (not great in Stack-world) and "there are definitely people here who can help!" (what Stack's best at).
So I feel like we need to focus the question in a way that fits a little better.
The typical question is "what's the problem" you're having that you think importing B/X rules helps with? Then ask about that problem, rather than presupposing that importing B/X is the solution.
@AVeryLargeBear Newborn ^
Or, digging down one layer, perhaps you're trying to import B/X rules for $REASONS, and you're having trouble making them work. (Mechanically, "feel," whatever.) If you dig into that a bit there's probably a workable question there?
I guess what really feels like it's not fitting is that you're trying to find a solution to a problem you haven't actually encountered yet.
@DavidCoffron <3
that bird has grown so much so quickly
1:17 PM
@nitsua60 I'll have a think about it. My problem is that, by the time I have actually attempted to import some of the ideas and have run the session, it will be too late. Such sessions are unlikely to become commonplace in the campaign - I'm not sure I could face 10 players every time!
The stack is quiet today.
@DavidCoffron That is much cuter
But I will think further about how I might import some of the changes (and read the book a bit more, but @KorvinStarmast makes the point that a lot of this stuff wasn't unique to any particular book), and see if I can formulate a way of doing it, then ask about that.
1:33 PM
@Ladifas I run 10-15-player sessions with distressing regularity: the thing that's worked best for me is either co-GMing or having a player-assistant. When I co-GM we usually split one running the "mechanical" bits, the other putting the dice and pencil down and just roleplaying/narrating what's going on. When I've got a player-assistant it's a lot of the traditional "caller" stuff in exploration/combat.
In social situations the table(s) usually fracture into small groups and I have the player-assistant precede me to each group in turn to get a sense for what their objective is, they eavesdrop on the scene, and we move on. I can usually "get through" 4 groups/independent scenes in 10-15 minutes this way, then we bring the whole group back together and the player-assistant recaps a "here's what everyone did in town today" while I'm jotting notes for my future self.
@nitsua60 I'm stressed just reading about it
1:57 PM
“I’m running a bit late because of who I am as a person” is probably the most honest “running late” message I’ve ever received.
2:09 PM
@nitsua60 Starring that chat note on big groups. (The co DM or player assistant is, I found, a must when a group gets that big)
@KorvinStarmast And, while hectic, a hella-lotta fun =D
15 players???
@SPavel Teenagers, nonetheless!
@nitsua60 Ah, so only 3 will actually show up
@nitsua60 oof
2:12 PM
15 teenagers is just a classroom
"Ok class, who can tell me what element a red dragon is weak against? No Braedynn, not fire. Your fighter takes 50 damage."
@SPavel Ah, but fifteen teenagers with soda and chips and brownies and license to shout and dice and computers and "varsity D&D" sweatshirts... it's not just a classroom =)
(Plus, we play in a conference room. We're not barbarians!)
@nitsua60 With 15 players, at least one's gotta be a barbarian
@SPavel [Hayden whispers] "Unobtanium. It's unobtanium. That stuff works for everything."
@SPavel They're still outside the building--haven't figured out the keycard-entry yet.
@SPavel Surprise?
2:16 PM
2:34 PM
I googled a toucan skeleton and idk what I was expecting but
@nitsua60 don't leave barbarians to figure out the keycard-entry system for a long period of time, or they will resort to the more classically successful method of simply removing the door from the doorway.
2:48 PM
The images make my mobile client sad.
this is totally super hiper mega off topic but... does anyone here knows anything about REST requests?
@ColinGross I could hide them
@Helwar like as in web development REST requests? restful design, etc?
@doppelgreener those exactly
@Helwar I know too much about those. What's your issue?
And how comfortable are you with the command line?
eh I'm trying to send SMS using our website
a company has given us a test account taht we can use
and pointed me to the tutorial
I am utterly lost
2:55 PM
is this "i don't know what i should do with their API?" lost or "i haven't written a web page/server before" lost?
You have a serverside application to do so? and there isn't a graphical interface?
I have done a few webpages, but that was time ago
I don't know how to interact with their api
I mean, i'm on javascript, and know that I have to make an XMLHTTPRequest
Gotcha. I'd start by installing the chrome extension postman. It's a decent GUI for doing REST work.
usually the basic idea is you send a HTTP request to the URLs they give you, potentially using a HTTP GET/PUT/POST method as appropriate, and pass data either as query parameters in the URL or as your request body.
This is a SOAP interface?
2:57 PM
@doppelgreener I don't know how to pass the data
they give examples but they are just random lines of text, i don't know how to fit them into the request
@Helwar they ought to tell you how it needs to be passed, such as whether they expect XML, JSON, query parameters, etc
I don't hink this is SOAP, i don't know what SOAP is either
for the moment, i have encoded my authorization in Base64, that I knew how to do

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