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4:04 PM
@ArtOfCode that's like ten cents :P
probably, yeah
@ArtOfCode Reservation of what?
panics and freaks out I don't have a dime in my couch cushions!
So, this MS report, one of @quartata's autoflagged FP, has two reasons that triggered. However, the two reasons are detecting "mockplus" and "mockplus.com". That appears inappropriate, because it effectively gives inclusion of a URL containing "mockplus.com" double weight. I haven't looked at the actual regexes, but it feels inappropriate to have two different rules, one which is a superset of the other.
IIRC, from looking at the reasons displayed in FIRE, it's not uncommon for this to be the case. If this is the intent, then OK. It just feels like it goes around the general rule that no single detection is to have a weight over 100.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Query ETF price data from Quandl API by bmattei on stackoverflow.com
naa- by Glorfindel
4:13 PM
Agreed, @Makyen. Doubling up like that is inappropriate and is one of the things that was noticed while the recent meta post was active. We need to clean up our regexes to remove things that trigger these duplicates.
Maybe also update the force check to check all blacklists (or all watches)?
For this specific set, one way to do that is make it such that "Bad keyword in body" doesn't detect inside URLs.
The same happens (sometimes) with websites that are both pattern-matched and blacklisted.
!!/test alphavantage.co
> Would not be caught as a post, title or username.
4:16 PM
!!/watch alphavantage\.co
@WELZ Added alphavantage\.co to watchlist
fp- by Glorfindel
@Glorfindel Why are we blacklisting if they are pattern matched?
CI on fe20988 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...
@Glorfindel I see them frequently on those 250+ weight
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev fe20988 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of alphavantage\.co by WELZ --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)
Restart: API quota is 19264.
4:19 PM
@Andy good question, I was opposed to that from the beginning.
I knew I liked you :)
Jan 18 '17 at 14:16, by Glorfindel
Yes, that's better. Still, I'm not convinced about BL'ing websites which are already pattern matched. I'd like to hear more opinions about this. It might also hurt performance.
Feb 4 '17 at 15:04, by Glorfindel
@ArtOfCode what do you think of blacklisting a pattern-matched website? I haven't done so far because 'I just don't like it'.
!!/watch shimeji-ee\.com
@tripleee Added shimeji-ee\.com to watchlist
@Andy It's mainly one user... and I think they do it to push frequent spammed urls over the autoflagging threshold
4:24 PM
@Magisch security isn't about probability, it's about avoiding unnecessary risk
Restart: API quota is 19171.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: How can I respond to well-meaning comments at the gym? by R J on interpersonal.SE
fp- by CalvT븃
> Potentially bad keyword in answer
Body - Position 16-24: mockplus
@Andy obvious question but do we know the scale of the overlap?
i agree we need to revise the guidelines but
4:33 PM
@Makyen I don't see when exactly mockplus.com was removed but it's no longer blacklisted
This is at least the second false positive I've seen in the last week, but no, I don't know the full scale. Maybe I'm just unlucky and saw the only two that this happened on
but looking back I vaguely remember now, the double blacklisting was done by Yvette in August and I pinged her here when I removed one of them
@CalvT븃 indeed, to the extent I do this it is generally restricted to pharma spam
@Andy i might be able to run tests later, throw the entire blacklist against the system, determine if there's a spam match pattern or not. I'd have to use a bastardized check_spam but that'd identify the overlaps
@tripleee Aye that's what I thought - hence the inclusion of "frequently"
Well frequent, but that was bad english on my part
@ThomasWard patterns which resemble each other might be one line of attack as well
4:38 PM
I think we just need to remove watch and blacklist altogether. Let Smokey determine the weight based off of the number tp's and fp's...
Combine into one
we had that
@CalvT븃 oh and essay writing etc but generally stuff we already know beyond the shadow of a doubt is going to be spam
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs that's how it originally was, we just had a blacklist, but we were blacklisting stuff that wasn't blacklist worthy.
watchlist was added for that reason for things to monitor but not consider blacklisted.
@tripleee I'm glad it was removed. It had to be in the last 18 days, given that the report was 18 days ago. While that solves this specific case, fortunately it sounds like we're working towards finding all the overlap for these two issues, and broader problems.
my question is what's the existing overlap, based on Andy's GH issue post
4:39 PM
@Makyen yeah probably I did it specifically in response to that FP
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs That'd add a huge delay in "reason weight calculation time"
Because the query to MS would be that much more complex to calculate (I think?)
@ThomasWard I think @K.Dᴀᴠɪs is saying a weight per blacklist
As in each keyword or url has it's own weight
The reason weight can rebuild once per day... It doesn't need to be real time
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs Then that'd defeat the purpose as usually charcoal responds to changes faster than 24 hours usually
@CalvT븃 ah. well in order for that to happen we have to change the structure of blacklisted items completely to have a weight rebuild. Which is nontrivial and would probably require integration with MS data for weights.
and would require MS to be able to write to those specific files to update the weights.
at that point we may as well move that into a component integrated into MS rather than use the text blacklist items we've got in place, or use a database instead.
That's Smokey NG basically
Or was the proposal for
4:44 PM
@CalvT븃 It wouldn't defeat the purpose imo. We don't want to immediately say that one keyword it 100% spam. It takes days, weeks, or even months to confirm that it's spam. A 24-hour rebuild isn't going to break anything.
If it does become an issue, then it can rebuild every 12, 6, 3 hours.
@ThomasWard it's about overlap on things with weight - so not watchlist
@CalvT븃 I know it is. That was a question because it was mentioned both watch and blacklist in the GH post.
@CalvT븃 then let's focus on the blacklist. The weights for those components is handled in the MS side, IIRC.
if we do a weighted blacklist, then we would have to move some of that functionality into Smokey
or nix the blacklist files completely and write that into MS
and let MS handle the flag weights for everything
in either case, it's a whole separate challenge to add that in that we would need to be able to sync across instances, and then that becomes its own slice of hell to maintain
@ThomasWard That's K.Dᴀᴠɪs's suggestion, not mine. I think it'd be too complex for Smokey with the way things are set up at the moment
4:48 PM
ah right i'm sorry i'm working through a headache, not focusing properly.
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs see above
@CalvT븃 i got confused because you clarified KDavis' post. sorry :)
@ThomasWard Np - trust it goes soon and all that
but still a headache - postfix is not kind.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body, mostly dots in body: Add two conditions in one form by Jpie on stackoverflow.com
tp- by Jake Symons
@CalvT븃 And it's a damn good suggestion. Don't forget that. :D
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs You aren't the first to have it I don't think :P
4:52 PM
Just makes it that much better then
It's coming into exam season so I may not be here as regularly as I normally am now. Just thought I'd let you guys know.
Good luck!
@Glorfindel Thanks :)
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs Well. then we got into the logistics discussion, and where it would sit and how we'd interop that with Smokey. Smokey does the pattern matching, MS does the weights component.
to make a weighted blacklist, ideally, we have to have things all sit on once central place for things
5:12 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, link following arrow in body, pattern-matching website in body, +1 more: What Cream Performs after Application by Hernione 19 on drupal.SE
tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs
I like @K.Dᴀᴠɪs suggestion, it would look something like this:
fp- by Jake Symons
Q: Part of SO seems to think there is no election

CalvT븃This is very much an edge case, and probably not worth bothering about, but I thought I'd report it. Increasing the number past the current election (https://stackoverflow.com/election/10) in the url (https://stackoverflow.com/election/11) leads you to a page which says: There are no active ...

The mouse pointer in that screenshot is annoying me.
For peoples interest
5:22 PM
Technically it's possible to do - just use each keyword as an individual reason
@CalvT븃 I always knew the electron was all fake news :)
Would throw up some other issues with message length and condition reason count, though
@Andy edit the link to this link i.stack.imgur.com/7vlWJ.png
@CalvT븃 add in [tag:corruption]
5:38 PM
It would also slow things down to a crawl
Depends how you implement it. Shouldn't do, just get the match data and append that to the reason name.
Can a mod edit the link from my image to the one without the mousey
The last time I did the hack to try to find out what pattern matched it resulted in a 4x slowdown
because we're not using Perl and we should be
Thanks Glorifyingfindel
5:45 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer, pattern-matching website in answer: PyDSTool do not recognize SciPy version by web master on stackoverflow.com
tpu- by Glorfindel
@Catija What extra stickers did you have to send out to Franker?
@ArtOfCode Charcoal stickers.
email headed your way
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad pattern in URL body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, repeated URL at end of long post: This makes it exceedingly worthwhile by ariwe nally on workplace.SE
tpu- by Glorfindel
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted username, blacklisted website in answer, blacklisted user: How to create a site,store and view programatically in magento by Brook Davis on stackoverflow.com
tpu- by Glorfindel
6:20 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Repeating characters in answer: How does the substitution jutsu work? by Deez Nuts on anime.SE
tpu- by Glorfindel
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, offensive answer detected, blacklisted user: How does the substitution jutsu work? by Deez Nuts on anime.SE
tpu- by Jake Symons
1 hour to primaries
Good luck @ArtOfCode @Rob @Magisch @YvetteColomb @Floern
I think that’s everyone
basically half the candidature is from here in some form :P
will be interesting to see if one of us wins
Considering it's 3/13... if you've got five of 5/13... seems like decent chances.
@ArtOfCode they were saying the same thing in SOBotics
6:31 PM
"Where diamonds are made..."
I think we need to make a sing song out of that so we can play it every time someone wins :P
I'd fancy some blue too, but not on SO
A Charcoal jingle?
I had a dream, about a diamond, that was blue!
Huh I just got the convention badge on SO - only rep stopping me from becoming a mod now...
Thankfully I have no desire to be one - 2k took me long enough!
105 took me forever...
6:35 PM
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
But now it's soon returning
The spammer's job shall be retired
Our robot to extinguish is wired
♩♬ I'm (sadly not) blue, dabba dee, dabba da... ♪♫
and john Dvorak is the lead of the choir.
@Catija another 45 and you will be able to vote.
New headcanon: Smokey's body is actually the same as that of those blue CGI aliens from a certain Eiffel65 song
as long as it's not Crazy Frog, I'm happy with it...
Hampster Dance?
6:37 PM
... the nightmare returns
I should run before Byte mentions Rick Astley
I should just go edit crazy but I don't know how to edit SO questions :P
awimawe awimawe in the jungle the SE jungle we don't sleep at night...
It really isn't that hard, I did it (and also thought I couldn't do it)
@Catija Stick em on here and I'll hit improve if you miss anything
how many current suggested edits on SO?
6:42 PM
@WELZ 114
no wonder my edits always take so long
@Catija you SO logo is on (center, right of the apple logo) maybe you mean the SE logo?
@WELZ That's Andy's laptop, not mine... hence all of the programming-related stickers.
6:57 PM
@JohnDvorak curl -s -L http://bit.ly/10hA8iC | bash
7:20 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, link following arrow in body, pattern-matching website in body, +1 more: ur epidermis look healthy and balanced and by Acese 19 on workplace.SE
tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs
7:40 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: probelm in showing a google map by TaraD on stackoverflow.com
tpu- by Glorfindel
!!/watch ozessay\.com\.au
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs That pattern looks like it's already caught by Potentially bad keyword in answer and Potentially bad keyword in body; append -force if you really want to do that.
7:59 PM
@angussidney thanks and same to all!
@ByteCommander echo 'aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cueW91dHViZS5jb20vd2F0Y2g/dj1kUXc0dzlXZ1hjUQo=' | base64 --decode | xargs open -jg
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, repeating words in answer: Attributing quotes to fictional characters by senior on writing.SE
tpu- by J F
> Nominations close in 13 minutes.
Looks like SO needs to figure out that live-updating relative time stuff.
@JF open: invalid option -j
@ArtOfCode echo 'aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cueW91dHViZS5jb20vd2F0Y2g/dj1kUXc0dzlXZ1hjUQo=' | base64 --decode | xargs open
@JF that's boring
Couldn't get a file descriptor referring to the console
8:02 PM
also, video being geoblocked
lol I'm not going to make it through the primaries
Aaaand guess what metric everyone's using to vote on already -_-
@ArtOfCode :(
@ArtOfCode Overall moderation fitness?
You wish
8:06 PM
@Undo [feature-request] display the candidate's reputation in the primary monitor.
and/or candidate score
@Glorfindel Can't scrape that off the election page.
Could pull it from the API
PRs welcome
Poor Mag
@Undo is it coded in Ruby?
8:07 PM
It's all the serial voters that hate him, he's a good rebel!!!
@Undo You can get nearest 1000 or >= 20k
@Undo then I'm not much of a help.
tpu by Glorfindel
Is it normal/nice to downvote for the other candidates? like downvote the ones that you don't want (not necessarily do you not want them, but just want the others
8:13 PM
Premature prediction: I'm going to end up 11th and miss the election completely
Wait, they hide comments in the primary phase? That's stupid and only serves to create bias based on rep
@WELZ please do
Alright, here comes some downvotes!
how many open spots are there again?
@WELZ looking at trends, rep and scores, and current positions... nowhere near out of the question
8:16 PM
@WELZ you downvoted every candidate?
ughhhh why didn't you have a little more rep ;P
I am pretty confident you will make it to the election
@rene no, just all besides my top 3 picks.
@rene I did too lol... Except my picks
@rene 11/14 of them
break time; afk
8:17 PM
The votecount userscript/extension is very helpful for me (as I don't have 1k rep) I use it on almost every site lol
flags @WELZ for serial downvoting :P
they should let nominees actually earn and loose rep like normal questions, would make it really fun! (but it's a terrible idea)
@ArtOfCode don't worry - I'll be with you
@angussidney you can click on the nomination section and the comments show
Yes, but what drive-by voter is going to do that?
8:38 PM
fp- by Glorfindel
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Find the highest point in a given radius by Elis on stackoverflow.com
in SO Close Vote Reviewers on Stack Overflow Chat, 1 min ago, by John Dvorak
@rene FR: make a bar chart for the current score
@SmokeDetector n
9:12 PM
!!/watch mymountain\.xyz
@WELZ Added mymountain\.xyz to watchlist
CI on cc9b465 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev cc9b465 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of mymountain\.xyz by WELZ --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)
Restart: API quota is 16095.
@angussidney Thank you, and goodluck to everyone
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer: Prepaying a loan: Shouldn't the interest be recalculated like a shorter loan? by Judy Parker on money.SE
tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs
!!/watch scott\W*larry\W*918
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs You don't have code privileges, but I've created PR#1774 for you.
9:21 PM
@SmokeDetector k
@WELZ it won't hurt to watch it, but I feel it's less than 10% likely to be actual spam. But let's see :)
@Glorfindel was thinking same thing.
Merged SmokeDetector #1774.
CI on 9e3f8f3 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...
Restart: API quota is 15858.
9:38 PM
How indicative have primaries been compared to the actual results in the past?
@JAD That... would be cool info to see
In primaries, everyone gets 14 votes... in elections, they get one... I'm sure things tend to be the same, but not identical.
@Catija 3 votes in elections
1st, 2nd and 3rd choice.
No... you get to pick three people in order of preference. Only one of those votes ever counts.
I'm pretty sure that they have some algorithm that included the other votes (just not as strongly)... I kinda remember reading that.
but I may be wrong
A: How are moderator election votes counted, in plain English?

yhw42Meek's method of STV is an iterative process that approaches the will of the people asymptotically. TL;DR Your vote, valued at 1.00 vote, is applied to your candidates in the order you rank them. Each candidate only uses as much of your vote as needed to become elected (shared equitably betwe...

9:44 PM
No. If you vote for someone and they meet the quota for election, a fraction of your vote for them will be assigned to the next person in your list
doesn't seem that "plain-english" to me... whatever
@Catija so your second choice does matter.
just not nearly as significant as 1st
I never said it didn't. I said you only get one vote.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Beginning of an essay: To read or ought to see by vatule on english.SE
Your one vote can be divided up into smaller pieces... but you only get one vote.
fair enough.
9:46 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly non-Latin answer: How to edit an existing graph in tensorflow and add new operation by Sama on stackoverflow.com
tpu- by Floern
If you see anything upvote-worthy (or downvote-worthy) on GD.... I'm only 3 rep away from 3k.
!!/watch sweet-16\.ca
@WELZ Added sweet-16\.ca to watchlist
!!/watch sweet16basketball2018\.ca
@WELZ Added sweet16basketball2018\.ca to watchlist
Restart: API quota is 15729.
it's loading, give it a minute
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body, blacklisted user: sweet 16 Basketball by vatule on english.SE
tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs
!!/watch sweet16basketball2018\.ca
9:52 PM
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs That pattern looks like it's already caught by Potentially bad keyword in answer and Potentially bad keyword in body; append -force if you really want to do that.
!!/watch sweet-16\.ca
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs That pattern looks like it's already caught by Potentially bad keyword in answer and Potentially bad keyword in body; append -force if you really want to do that.
!!/watch sweet\W*16\W*(basketball)?
@WELZ Added sweet\W*16\W*(basketball)? to watchlist
Should have been (?:basketball)? ;P
9:53 PM
make a PR and I'll approve it
what is ":?"
non-capturing group
non-capturing group. trip will be up your throat if you dont use it
nobody cares though
Restart: API quota is 15701.
9:54 PM
@quartata uhhhh no... not nobody... huh @tripleee?
@quartata @K.Dᴀᴠɪs English?
when I am doing regex golf, I have to not use it on purpose :P
@WELZ it doesn't save what it captures in between the parenthesis
sometimes you might want to refer back to it: this is called a backreference
A: What is a non-capturing group? What does (?:) do?

Ricardo NoldeLet me try to explain this with an example. Consider the following text: https://stackoverflow.com/ https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/regex Now, if I apply the regex below over it... (https?|ftp)://([^/\r\n]+)(/[^\r\n]*)? ... I would get the following result: Match "https://stack...

I didn't read the answer, but @ 1705 upvotes I think it should be fine
(.{3})\1 will match any three characters, followed by those exact same three again for instance
the parenthesis save what matches in group 1, hence \1
9:58 PM
still confused, but if it makes sense to do it like that, by all means
but since we don't care about this you can put ?: and have it act more like "normal" parenthesis
@quartata Stop saying "we"... Because there is the regex police up in here
cough trip cough
so does it actually save resources to make your groups non capturing?
probably not
does the regex even run any faster?
10:01 PM
probably not
(only ostensibly)
might depend if it does not have a qualifier?
that's different
@Rob is rocking!
actually yes
for this regex since the group will be empty most of the time people really don't care
10:03 PM
a group with a qualifier can match different text each time it is used
only last capture is kept
the only language that doesn't do it this way is .NET regex
so still it's fundamentally style
and I know which one won't confuse anyone reading it
The actual use case for it so that you don't have to count groups when you want some capturing and some non-capturing:
(.)(?:.)(.) you want to be able to refer to the first one as 1 and the end one as 2, not skip over 2 because of the middle one
and it would make a piece of code that uses a regex to extract information from a sting simpler
oh no I'm starting to sound like Thomas I need coffee
10:08 PM
@quartata too late. The transformation has already begun
@quartata PM me some
so sleeepy


SmokeDetector will require a full restart to pull changes: True
So Thomas's primary personality trait is to be sleepy?
10:09 PM
charcoal test is eating the CI messages
I thought it was the evil eyes
marginal difference
It depends on what the overall regex is used for. At some point, the regexes could be used to capture the matched text, perhaps including text after the match. The regex text which you're providing is used to build the actual regex, which might include (probably does include) multiple such strings. As @quartata has indicated, if there's a capture group defined later in the overall regex, then you can't reliably refer to that group, if the text you provide contains an (earlier) capture group.
Feature request: Make primary upvotes award 10 rep. No rep cap
10:17 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer: iPhone: Is it possible to send Push-Notifications from a website? by ben on stackoverflow.com
tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs
@ByteCommander no parent site, tags don't work here
@SmokeDetector K
What's a "porni"?
It's it some kinda food?
he forgot a space... unless you were being funny
10:19 PM
"I like porni"? He wants to say pony, surely. Right?
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs you should calibrate your humor detector like right now
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ it's hard to tell with your eye lashes in your name
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs ಠ_ಠ
There's nothing wrong with my eyelashes
Except they're Kannada
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ what happened to "I'll keep a consistent name from now on."?
10:26 PM
@WELZ my name is consistent, even though it's not the same
@SmokeDetector have they spammed before?
Someone search MS pls
I'm gonna stop tagging you lol, seeing that annoying face in every damn message is annoying.
@WELZ ಠ_ಠ
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ nope
@SmokeDetector N then
10:29 PM
tpu- by Makyen
@WELZ haha fail
@SmokeDetector K I trust @Mak's decision
!!/watch-force pcsoftwarereview\.com
@WELZ Added pcsoftwarereview\.com to watchlist
CI on cb38f38 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...
Restart: API quota is 15391.
@SmokeDetector naa-
@doppelgreener naa
10:34 PM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ yea
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, no whitespace in answer: Git push existing repo to a new and different remote repo server? by 4067098 on stackoverflow.com
@SmokeDetector K I just feel like flagging this as NAA
@doppelgreener oh thee wanth starth thy war?
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ nay! prithee not at all
10:47 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Looping a MIDI sequence in Java by PQCraft _ on stackoverflow.com
It isn't.$\mathstrut$ — Ivan Neretin 18 hours ago
@SmokeDetector K
naa- by doppelgreener
Who needs zero width spaces when you haz MathJax?
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ i'm interpreting that as someone strutting after saying "it isn't"
@SmokeDetector thoust art pacifist
@doppelgreener well, it matches his attitude
11:47 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: Signature Capture on SO Invoice by InfoSourcing on stackoverflow.com
fp- by doppelgreener
question is seeking a plugin, answer provides a relevant suggestion and discloses affiliation
vtc'd question though as seeking library recommendation

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