TeX, LaTeX and Friends

12:08 AM

Ducks watch out! ;-)

@UlrikeFischer These are really good tomatoes, btw. We get them from our farmers' market in the late summer. But I'm with @DavidCarlisle: no compromise. :)

CarLaTeX

5:05 AM

@marmot Marmots' invasion is coming!

@UlrikeFischer Pomodoro Ananas delle Hawaii! It seems to really exist!

marmot

5:59 AM

@CarLaTeX How did you know that I was about to add ducks 1 minute before I submitted the answer????

CarLaTeX

@marmot Ahahah, we should show it to @samcarter: tex.stackexchange.com/a/419414/101651

3

marmot

@CarLaTeX Now it's Juve vs. Inter (I hope ;-)

CarLaTeX

@marmot Perfect, LOL!

marmot

@CarLaTeX ... almost... it would be great if pgfplots would accept footballs as marks (mark=football ;-) ... and of course mark=duck

CarLaTeX

@marmot Oooh we should ask a feature request :)

marmot

6:12 AM

@CarLaTeX I fully agree. It's a shame that this not yet in ;-)

CarLaTeX

@marmot :)

marmot

6:39 AM

@samcarter I saw this only now. Thanks a lot! But I do not think that my answer is "better", after all the output of yours looks much better, it does not depend on additional packages and mine also fails if the document becomes too narrow. Anyway, this is mainly to say thanks!

Lyndon White

7:57 AM

I am really happy with the cool beamer tikz combo i pulled off for a background

Code:

	\setbeamertemplate{background}{
		\begin{tikzpicture}
		\useasboundingbox (0,0) rectangle(\the\paperwidth,\the\paperheight);
		\node at (current page.center) {\includegraphics[width=1.2\paperwidth]{bg/1}};

		\node[
			  rounded corners=1cm,
			  fill=white,
			  fill opacity=0.8,
			  minimum width=0.95\paperwidth,
			  minimum height=0.97\paperheight
			  ] at  (current page.center) {};

		\end{tikzpicture}
	}

I am thinking of making that a self answered question. What would be a good question title?

Ulrike Fischer

8:44 AM

@CarLaTeX Naturally! I wouldn't make jokes in such a serious matter!

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer causing trouble again I see! sourceforge.net/p/miktex/bugs/2605

Paulo Cereda

@marmot ooh

Joseph Wright

8:59 AM

@DavidCarlisle Any progress on the l3build issues from yesterday? I'll need to do any upload to CTAN today, but will hold off until I hear

CarLaTeX

@UlrikeFischer LOL

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer require("l3build") doesn't work I think if the top-level script is l3build: the 'outer' layer isn't I think seen (as it is not 'required' when first loaded)}

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle what did i do? The report is old.

@JosephWright no. I already tried it yesterday. But I would like some test there. As I'm constantly switching between my tex systems I would get errors otherwise.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Probably you are best checking the release string

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer old on miktex but someone just reported the issue appeared in texlive 2018 pretest (and linked to that)

Joseph Wright

9:07 AM

@UlrikeFischer Or rather if it exists at all: if you run directly using build.lua then it won't be defined

if not release_date then
  dofile(kpse.lookup("l3build.lua"))
end

@UlrikeFischer I'll perhaps mention that in the docs

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes (we could do that in our own build.lua so we can easily test both forms) until tl2018 comes out

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle so I was avant-garde; -)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Indeed: I'll change them I think

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I think of you more as Adventor

@JosephWright you removed the chmod :(

@JosephWright so now in l3build I do git pull; l3build install and that works but l3build no longer works:

$ l3build install
bash: /usr/local/texlive/2018/bin/x86_64-cygwin/l3build: Permission denied

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle We can out it back if you want. My thinking was that in general it's best if a Git checkout has no 'unexpected' things.

David Carlisle

9:19 AM

I have to go in by hand and chmod it again. I think either it needs to be executable whenchecked out or the install target needs to make it so (which might be tricky cross-platform)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle For us (the only people using the script directly like this) I was imagining that texlua ./l3build.lua or a kpsewhich-lookup version would be sensible

@DavidCarlisle Well on *nix install doesn't really 'work' anyway without also making a symlink: the TL'18 install on Linux only looks at the version in the managed tree

@DavidCarlisle I was mainly thinking that we should be mindful of security: if you feel it's OK I'll flip back again

@DavidCarlisle Doesn't affect me anyway ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes but I have a symlink to the ~/texmf/scripts/l3build in my path so if that l3build.lua gets updated ...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Sure, but what I mean is you have to actively do that for local testing ...

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle all translations are failing ;-)

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer TeX Gyre Adventor :-)

Joseph Wright

9:23 AM

@DavidCarlisle Changed again :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright thanks

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle You could just have done it yourself :)

@DavidCarlisle git update-index --chmod=+x l3build.lua

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes sure but it's best not to perform surgery on other people's babies without asking them first

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I'm always very clear that the code belongs to the team

2

Ulrike Fischer

;-)

Joseph Wright

9:25 AM

@ul github.com/latex3/l3build/commit/…

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I know, but noone believes you:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh

Joseph Wright

10:40 AM

@DavidCarlisle Did you get to the bottom of the .git business (or did it at least go away with the latest checkout)?

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle but is ifthen obsolete?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright no, but once the l3build.lua was executable it did the right thing so I'm not sure what it was doing before, but it's stopped now

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle OK, I'll probably do another release then (unless @UlrikeFischer has any comments)

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX it's as good as it ever was

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I've been wondering if I should look at automated deployment ... might be fun :)

@DavidCarlisle Yup

@DavidCarlisle We should just add etoolbox to required ;)

David Carlisle

10:42 AM

@JosephWright you mean rather than wait for someone's thesis?

@JosephWright or expl3

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Not quite the same thing ...

@DavidCarlisle There is that, true

David Carlisle

@JosephWright well I wasn't quite sure what you meant by deployment there?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Automated deployment would mean that when we (I) tag, the results automatically get sent back to GitHub (or whatever): for a script, that might well make sense. Would mean including the doc build in testing, but then we'd never overlook a missing \end{macro}

John Dorian

Can I somehow get -1 rep. to get a score of 111 ? :-) Or is this cheating?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright so automatic git push?

Joseph Wright

10:47 AM

@DavidCarlisle Something like that, but to the 'releases' area on it GitHub .. at least worth considering

@DavidCarlisle I was thinking about it as they use a Linux set up, so I can get u+x on the script without having to mess about :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I thought if you made a tag and pushed it showed up in releases at github automatically

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle I always use it but I saw a comment where someone said etoolbox should be used instead of it...

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX it really is horrible, I was given a spec that ensured it had to be horrible:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle It does, but just tags the code in the repo: automated deployment uploads a .zip of whatever the CI produces. So I can arrange to have a zip ready to send to CTAN just by tagging.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright ah

Joseph Wright

10:54 AM

@CarLaTeX Use etoolbox or expl3: both are (effectively) team-maintained, both use e-TeX, neither are constrained by the issues @DavidCarlisle alludes to

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle LOL! I find it convenient and simple, but I'm only a poor beginner :)

@JosephWright OK, I'll start using it :) (@DavidCarlisle)

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX the one useful thing I think I added to ifthen was numeric pageref testing, I don't think that's immediately in etoolbox Heiko's zref-* packages have a vastly extended set of capabilities in that area if you buy in to the whole zref system, but ifthenelse's pagref tests could probably be moved somewhere else if ifthen was to be officially discouraged (@JosephWright I don't think etoolbox has an equivalent?)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Correct: the tests aren't really tied to LaTeX

Ulrike Fischer

11:12 AM

@DavidCarlisle Really? Where is this? The documentation doesn't mention \pageref.

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle Till now, I used it only to test numbers or lenghts...

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer see it's extensively documented here: % \changes{v1.0j}{1994/11/15}{Modify \cs{protect} add \cs{@setref}}

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle Btw: A few days later a similar bug appeared with another filter (JPXDecode) sourceforge.net/p/miktex/bugs/2618. I'm currently a bit cut off the texlive mailing due to the gmane problems and can't comment to existings posts. Could you mention it?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I'll see if I can reproduce. do you know where Christian fixed it did he directly modify the pdftex sources rather than push something upstream?

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle github.com/MiKTeX/miktex/commit/… and github.com/MiKTeX/miktex/commit/…

David Carlisle

11:25 AM

@UlrikeFischer I just tried sourceforge.net/p/miktex/bugs/2618/attachment/… and it worked without error for me, I'll try the original one now...

@UlrikeFischer oops no it gives t syntax error with luatex

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle yes for me too. With pdflatex both are currently ok (but I haven't updated today) but the JPX-example fails with lualatex.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I BCC you on the texlive mail

Ulrike Fischer

11:47 AM

@DavidCarlisle saw it, thanks.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle I read BBC :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda if you read BBC you should know about the hat you should wear if you give an arara talk at tug2018

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda last picture here (I wonder if the 5th picture is @egreg) bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-43342846

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle :D

Harald Hanche-Olsen

11:57 AM

@DavidCarlisle The dog, you mean?

David Carlisle

@HaraldHanche-Olsen dog's not green, can't be him

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle Well you know the saying: On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

We have talking marmots, ducks who insist they're working on their thesis … why not a motorcycle riding dog?

CarLaTeX

12:41 PM

@DavidCarlisle Once I brought my doggy to the polling station, but she couldn't vote because she was 17

CarLaTeX

1:02 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen and you're a bee :):):)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@CarLaTeX No, a carnivorous fly.

CarLaTeX

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Oooh

samcarter

1:26 PM

@CarLaTeX @marmot Very nice usage of the football ducks!

CarLaTeX

@samcarter Yay!

Ulrike Fischer

@samcarter @CarLaTeX should we discuss which team is winning here?

CarLaTeX

@UlrikeFischer Looking at the current situation of Inter, there's no fight :)

Paulo Cereda

1:54 PM

@CarLaTeX GOAL

mickep

I wonder why the alpha in TeX Gyre Bonum is more or less indistinguishable from a in math mode. In the following image, guess which one is a and which one is alpha:

CarLaTeX

2:13 PM

@PauloCereda Who scored the goal?

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX a duck :D

samcarter

@LyndonWhite Nice background image! Which satellite is it? Your user image looks a bit like the Hawking signature in the CMB, which makes me wonder if the satellite is related to this?

@marmot I really think, that your answer is better. I don't like the hard codes values in my one. I could replace the left hand boarder with the respective length, however I don't know how to remove the hard codes limit in the domain. I tried to simply increase it and let it run of the page, however this leads to "value to large" errors ... so I really think that your answer is better!

David Carlisle

@mickep would you ask the same question about capital alpha and capital a ?

mickep

@DavidCarlisle Of course not. I'm just used to other fonts where the lower case a and alpha differ so that one can use them in the same formula. With these ones, it is impossible.

@DavidCarlisle (the first one is a and the second alpha, but you probably had already found that out).

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@mickep My own guess was the other way round.

mickep

2:25 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Mine as well. :)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@mickep I seem to recall a similar problem with the Euler fonts, where $\nu$ and $v$ are really hard to tell apart.

mickep

(I just accidentaly wrote $\int_a^b \alpha f=\alpha\int_a^b f$ and was surprised by the result. It is no big deal, I will use another letter or switch the greek ones for something similar looking if I find it)

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Indeed, I think that is also the case with mathdesign/newcentury schoolbook if I remember correctly. But that is somehow a bit more understandable (for me).

David Carlisle

@mickep that's what I'd have guessed but It's not that different from computer modern where nu and upsilon are visually kept distinct form the math italic u and v but only just, if you showed them out of context in an image as you just did it may be hard to spot the difference

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@mickep Personally, I'd consider it a bug. A math font in which you can't easily tell α and a apart is just unusable, in my opinion. I'll try to remember to stay away from this font in the future.

mickep

When searching for bugs and tex-gyre I land in debians bug reporting system, is that the right place to file a bug about bonum? (not this one, which is probably not a bug)

Paulo Cereda

2:30 PM

QUACK

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda :):):)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda But I already ate.

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh

mickep

The kerning between $f$ and the parenthesis is not too good. This also happens for other combinations with $f$.

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda You mean QUARK(S), the tiny subnucleonic particles....

Harald Hanche-Olsen

2:34 PM

@mickep I have a feeling this has been discussed here before.

David Carlisle

@mickep I think you are supposed to use the email address in the "contact" link at gust.org.pl/projects/e-foundry/tex-gyre

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Feb 14 at 17:32, by David Carlisle

\yskip\noindent In the latter case, we might have |info(q)=null|. This
is not the same as |math_type(q)=empty|; for example, `\.{\$P\_\{\}\$}'
and `\.{\$P\$}' produce different results (the former will not have the
``italic correction'' added to the width of |P|, but the ``script skip''
will be added).

@mickep ↑↑↑ And surrounding discussion.

David Carlisle

@mickep is that xetex or luatex?

@HaraldHanche-Olsen a most reliable source

Paulo Cereda

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda What the heck ...

Ulrike Fischer

2:39 PM

@mickep We had this discussion in mid february (and also on the context list). With lualatex something like this works:

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmainfont{TeXGyreBonum}
\setmathfont{TeXGyreBonum Math}
\begin{document}
(or about $f$)

(or about $f \tracinglostchars=0 \Uchar"EEEFF$)

\end{document}

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer a puppy <3

Ulrike Fischer

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer does context hide this or does it just live with it and make the user add such things?

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Looks rather like young bears to me

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@ChristianHupfer If you are familiar with the Dilbert cartoon, you'll know that heck is the place you end up if you're not quite bad enough to go to hell. The place is ruled by the Prince of Insufficient Light, often depicted carrying a giant spoon.

Christian Hupfer

2:44 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Dilbert isn't very well-known in Germany, I would say

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle Well in february the \mathcal{P} was wrong in context too, but Hans wrote "hm, seems that i messed up a pointer ... i'll fix it ..." and I tried it now and the spacing is ok. But I tried now with \setupbodyfont[bonum] and then the f looks wrong too. Imho context does a lot "ad-hoc" correction (and the section in the luatex manual about math italics sound rather disgruntled).

marmot

3:05 PM

@samcarter I guess one may unify the answers to one in which one uses the distance between ` (current page.west)` and (current page.east) in order to set the plot range... next time ;-) And thanks for the edit of my soccer answer!!! BTW, what is a Hawking signature?

David Carlisle

3:16 PM

@UlrikeFischer yes I always get scared to ask about italic correction in math:-)

marmot

@DavidCarlisle Is it because you are scared of Italian mathematicians in general? ;-)

David Carlisle

@marmot not of Italian mathematicians, Dutch typesetters:-)

marmot

@DavidCarlisle Well, the way you interact with @egreg suggests otherwise... ;-)

David Carlisle

@marmot oh him? I'd forgotten about him, quite unscary

marmot

@DavidCarlisle Seems like pizza with pineapple has tough side effects....

Ulrike Fischer

3:32 PM

@DavidCarlisle Hans probably is scared to get ask about it ;-)

mickep

@DavidCarlisle luatex (using ConTeXt with luatex)

@UlrikeFischer Oh, I now have some vague memory of that. In the end, the solution is some kind of hack it seems, no?

@UlrikeFischer So, do you suggest that I write to the list about this, or should I try to manually change kerning using the .lfg file?

@DavidCarlisle Thanks, perhaps that is the best way to go, since I guess this is a font issue.

Ulrike Fischer

3:47 PM

4

@marmot @PauloCereda ^^^^

Christian Hupfer

@UlrikeFischer Scary hooligan duck?

Ulrike Fischer

@mickep Better you than me, I had already my round with Hans regarding italic correction ...

mickep

@UlrikeFischer Yes, he probably loves me after my last two subjects, so what the heck :)

David Carlisle

@mickep just start your message with "Ulrike told me to complain to you", and then you should be safe.

3

mickep

4:05 PM

@DavidCarlisle Haha, this is a good reason for you to subscribe to the ConTeXt list.

barbara beeton

4:46 PM

@marmot -- just couldn't let the statement stand in tex.stackexchange.com/a/419417 about the creator of tex being responsible for the suppression of parskip in minipages. it was the creator of latex. (was probably unintentional, but please don't get the two mixed up.)

marmot

@barbarabeeton Thanks!

samcarter

5:54 PM

@marmot Some fluctuations in the CMB map from WMAP that look like SH

marmot

@samcarter Thanks! (Yes, I have hear about this before... but completely forgot about it)

samcarter

@marmot Looks nice! Winston cones or art?

marmot

@samcarter No it is at the Aspen Center for Physics. This one (or another very similar one) really goes back to Hawking, at least according to what I have heard. He saw it in a garden, said that it would remind him of the wavefunction of the Universe, the owner heard that and donated it to the Center. (No guarantee that this is all true, but I heard this story from another famous physicist...;-)

samcarter

@marmot Oh, what a wonderful story!

mickep

6:13 PM

@UlrikeFischer I now sent an email to the list. We'll see if there is any response.

Ulrike Fischer

6:31 PM

@mickep I see you mentioned my name as @DavidCarlisle wanted ;-)

mickep

@UlrikeFischer Well, but perhaps not in the way he had in mind. I hope it was OK with you (after all, you were the one mentioning that).

Joseph Wright

7:16 PM

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer Latest l3build sent to CTAN

David Carlisle

@JosephWright a whole load of p*tex updates I see

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yup

@DavidCarlisle I'm running the test suite now to see what might have changed

@DavidCarlisle I suspect proper p-LaTeX support should get on to our 'radar'

David Carlisle

@JosephWright 何がうまくいかないか

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Don't you get technical with me

David Carlisle

@JosephWright there seems to be a lot background "history" leading to the variants

Joseph Wright

7:28 PM

@DavidCarlisle No new failures: still just the LuaTeX ones that require updated .luatex.tlg files plus the couple due to the new logging line (u)pTeX has added

@DavidCarlisle Certainly, but we really should try to get a handle on it

@DavidCarlisle The 2e suite doesn't even run (u)p-TeX with an unmodified format file ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes (I might update the graphics-def tlgs)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I am enjoying being able to just type l3build <whatever>

  Check failed with difference files
  - ../build/test/d3dvips.luatex.diff
  - ../build/test/d3dvisvgm.luatex.diff
  - ../build/test/m3box001.ptex.diff
  - ../build/test/m3box001.uptex.diff
  - ../build/test/m3coffins001.luatex.diff

@DavidCarlisle ^^^

egreg

7:46 PM

Everybody harvesting rep while I’m at a basketball tournament?

David Carlisle

@egreg no, just generating test failures:-)

Joseph Wright

@egreg Score many?

marmot

@egreg I guess your score at BB is even higher than in TeX?

David Carlisle

@marmot you need \zz not \input :-)

marmot

@DavidCarlisle OK, can't wait learning from your answer what \zz is this time ;-)

David Carlisle

8:00 PM

@marmot it's \input (the version before latex changed it)

marmot

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I am reading this, so you better hurry up ;-)

marmot

8:12 PM

@DavidCarlisle Nice zzolution! Nice anzzwer!

David Carlisle

@marmot latex's non expandable input is a pain I'm tempted to suggest that (at least in luatex) we use the primitive \input (@JosephWright)

John Dorian

Is TeX.SE appropriate to ask questions about mathematical typography (i.e. typography used to typeset mathematics)?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Hmm

@DavidCarlisle Risky

user279540

Why is vim so hard to figure out >:(

Maybe I'm just dumb

Are you guys all like LaTeX gods ?

lol

John Dorian

@user279540 There are some LaTeX gods here (though they propably won't admit it), but I am a noob :-)

user279540

8:22 PM

For some reason I am unable to compile with vim-latex. I get a confusing error message

Same

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@user279540 No, this place is mostly populated by ducks and those who eat them.

user279540

Lol

Im one of the ducks

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@user279540 Then watch out. As for vim-latex, never heard of it. Maybe someone else did.

user279540

Ok...does anyone else use vim?

Joseph Wright

@user279540 Logically yes :)

@user279540 What message?

user279540

8:26 PM

|| I can't find file `0'. 0
|| Emergency stop. 0
[Quickfix List] :latex -interaction=nonstopmode -file-line-error-style 0

The 'quickfix list' doesn't work

!latex -interaction=nonstopmode % works, but I don't want to have to type it everytime I compile

and I'm not sure why it works or why the error occurs

David Carlisle

@user279540 use emacs (@PauloCereda)

@JohnDorian mostly, no, purely design questions with no tex aspect are usually off topic (the network has a site for graphic design)

John Dorian

@DavidCarlisle Yes I know there is a graphic design page with a typography tag. But I wonder if there are many people around over there with experience in mathematical typesetting. Haven't tried yet though.

user279540

what is (are?) emacs?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@JohnDorian Indeed, the (very few) graphical designers I have come across appear not to have a clue about mathematical typesetting. But you could search the site and see if there are questions on the topic there already.

David Carlisle

@user279540 it's an editor (but vim and emacs users are famous for not speaking to each other:-) it even has a wiklpedia page of its own:

Editor war

Editor war is the common name for the rivalry between users of the Emacs and vi (usually Vim) text editors. The rivalry has become a lasting part of hacker culture and the free software community. The Emacs vs vi debate was one of the original "holy wars" conducted on Usenet groups, with many flame wars fought between those insisting that their editor of choice is the paragon of editing perfection, and insulting the other, since at least 1985. Related battles have been fought over operating systems, programming languages, version control systems, and even source code indent style. Notably, unlike...

Harald Hanche-Olsen

8:39 PM

@JohnDorian I see 25 questions tagged “mathematics” there.

user279540

which is better?

vim vs emacs

letsgo

which shoudl I use

Is it possible to use both vim and emacs?

David Carlisle

@user279540 emacs, of course:-) (but I have used emacs almost every day since 1987 and never used vi at all) so this is hardly an in depth objective comparison

Ulrike Fischer

Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.

John Dorian

@user279540 Why not use a pure LaTeX editor?

Joseph Wright

@user279540 There's an editor 'war': both are perfectly good editors, there are arguments both ways

John Dorian

8:42 PM

@user279540 I like TeXStudio a lot. It has a lot of LaTeX-related functionality by default, is open source, actively develped and customisable

David Carlisle

@user279540 yes of course they are completely separate programs, you can install both, most linux systems will have both installed already

@JohnDorian it fails my editor test though.

user279540

Why don't people use both

?

Lol

John Dorian

@DavidCarlisle sorry, what is your editor test?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@JohnDorian @DavidCarlisle is it emacs?

user279540

I have started to use vim because it is faster than a normal tex editor

David Carlisle

8:45 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen yes, exactly

user279540

Im so confused now :p

which is more powerful

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@user279540 Don't worry, that's normal around here.

user279540

which is faster

which is better?

David Carlisle

@user279540 basically if you are happy using vim, that's fine, several people here use it. you could ask a question on site about the error above and someone will probably help

user279540

:P

WHy don;t poeple use both?

shouldn't that be the masterrace option :P

Harald Hanche-Olsen

8:48 PM

@user279540 They're too different. Cognitive load and all that. But I do use vim sometimes, for small, quick editing jobs. Emacs for major editing tasks.

John Dorian

@HaraldHanche-Olsen But: graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/…

Joseph Wright

@user279540 You can do, but I guess people who like one or the other strongly use it for everything. (I use neither, but I'm not a proper programmer)

user279540

Time to go god mode; learn both editors; diss all the people who think one is better than the other.

If you went try hard is it possible to learn both editors?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@JohnDorian Hmm, I see. And one comment suggests asking on math.se. Where it is probably even more off topic than here.

Joseph Wright

@user279540 To some extent: like I say, I use neither regularly but I can use both to some degree

user279540

8:53 PM

For TeX which is faster

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@user279540 I'd suggest learning one at a time, to minimize confusion.

user279540

OK

Do you know both

?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@user279540 Both can keep ut with your typing, no question about that.

user279540

Lol

Joseph Wright

@HaraldHanche-Olsen :)

user279540

8:55 PM

I mean there are shortcuts like `/ for vim etc.

oh wait

nvm

Joseph Wright

@user279540 Whichever one works better for you: there is no right answer

user279540

thats with my extension

user279540

9:06 PM

dang I have a new purpose in life

to destroy the editor masterrace

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@user279540 Just remember this: ed is the standard editor

Alan Munn

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I think this joke might stream past some people.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Oops, you said ed not sed. :)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@AlanMunn Yes, like anybody under 50 or so.

@AlanMunn Just quoting the ed man page.

David Carlisle

@HaraldHanche-Olsen we shouldn't allow under-age people into this chat room

Alan Munn

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I don't think I've ever used ed.

user279540

9:12 PM

The ed utility is a line-oriented text editor. It is used to create, display, modify and otherwise manipu-
late text files. When invoked as red, the editor runs in "restricted" mode, in which the only difference
is that the editor restricts the use of filenames which start with `!' (interpreted as shell commands by
ed) or contain a `/'. Note that editing outside of the current directory is only prohibited if the user
does not have write access to the current directory. If a user has write access to the current directory,

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@user279540 One great advantage of ed is its terse error messages.

egreg

@marmot My job is to teach young referees

user279540

the fck it I'm out; sticking with standard gui and microsoft word master race.

David Carlisle

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ?

user279540

The wth does unix mean master race AKA this generation

Harald Hanche-Olsen

9:14 PM

@DavidCarlisle correct

marmot

@egreg Ohh, hope you tell them to give the players enough space(s) ;-)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@marmot @egreg is more adept at avoiding spaces

David Carlisle

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I think we probably lost the few who got this far

Alan Munn

@user279540 Now you sound like a bot.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle good.

Alan Munn

9:18 PM

@DavidCarlisle I'm not lost, I'm just ignoring you. (Not very effectively, though.)

2

David Carlisle

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I think that only you and I are here.

user279540

whatsabot.com

imabot.net/

barbara beeton

9:49 PM

@JohnDorian -- there are a few of us here with some familiarity with mathematical typography. but whether the question is strictly on topic here may be a matter of how the question is phrased. i can point you to a couple of references, but i'm about to leave.

@user279540 -- if you have used emacs long enough, it gets "into your fingers", and if forced to use something else that is very different, you are likely to make errors at the worst possible moment, when you are acting on instinct and the brain doesn't even engage. if you've never used any editor, try several, and choose the one you like best for the jobs you have to do.

John Dorian

10:09 PM

@barbarabeeton I am thinking about questions like: Do you think math font XY fits well with text font YZ? What are the pro's and con's of the AMS Euler font? Is it appropriate to have a higher leading in math texts than in pure latin text?

user279540

Isn't LaTeX pretty much built to fit 'math typography'

Alan Munn

@JohnDorian I would say the first question is definitely off topic. The second is borderline, since it will be largely opinion based unless there are specific faults with the font. The third is also pretty much opinion based too.

@user279540 Yes, but there are still plenty of aesthetic decisions that can be made and which require human intervention.

John Dorian

I often have the feeling that a slightly higher leading can improve legibility quite a bit in texts with lots of inline math

user279540

@barbarabeeton I guess it can kind of be related to switching keyboards. After typing on qwerty for so long, its hard to use anythign else.

John Dorian

But I'm not sure if that breaks some typographic rules I am not aware of

Alan Munn

10:17 PM

@JohnDorian That's probably true. As long as the leading is consistent throughout the document, I don't think it's a problem. Most of the 'rules' are rules of thumb.

John Dorian

10:33 PM

I want to ask a question of the form "How can I make [...] output a warning whenever ...?" But what should [...] actually be, i.e. what outputs a warning? Is it TeX, LaTeX, pdflatex, ... ?

My guess: It's the engine, i.e. pdflatex/xelatex/lualatex

Alan Munn

@JohnDorian It's not really engine specific. There are a bunch of errors/warnings that any class or package can generate. texdoc clsguide to see them. I'm sure we have a question on this.

1

Q: how to throw a warning in latex?

I want to know how to throw a warning when latex reach to a certain point. For instance: \switch [\exp1] \case{{case 0}} %do whatever \case{{case 1}} %do whatever \otherwise %throw warning \endswitch Is it possible to do it?

John Dorian

10:49 PM

@AlanMunn Oh, I just asked my own question... tex.stackexchange.com/questions/419561/…

But it seems to be relatively independent.

Alan Munn

@JohnDorian Is this a duplicate? tex.stackexchange.com/q/261170/2693 The last comment is germane: there's not any way to do this by annotating the log, at least not in pdflatex.

John Dorian

@AlanMunn It seems so. Unfortunately, the question is not really answered. Should I delete mine anyways?

Alan Munn

@JohnDorian if you like. Or we can just close it as a duplicate.

John Dorian

@AlanMunn And what can I do to get an actual answer to the question? The solution to the other question was simply to color all inline math which is neither what I nor the other OP asked for, although he did not complain.

@AlanMunn Ok, actually he did complain^^

Alan Munn

@JohnDorian Yes, that's why I mentioned the last comment: it's not really possible to do what you want.

@JohnDorian And John has given you an answer (not entirely serious though...). :)

John Dorian

11:02 PM

@AlanMunn Ah right I managed to somehow overread both the comment and you pointing me to the comment^^

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