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7:00 PM
@TedShifrin the point is that by Sobolev theorems, $g+(\delta R_g)^*u$ is a $C^1$ metric, so the coefficients in front of the leading terms in the PDE are $C^1$
magical bootstrapping magic should then work
 
when the elements are all zero or one, you call that a (0,1)-matrix
 
Because the PDE is elliptic or something ...
 
so I think you'd call it a $\pm 1$-matrix in that scenario
 
Yeah but the shitty thing is, scal is not elliptic
It's the 4th order equation that is
 
So then bootstrapping might not be automatic. But I haven't thought about this kind of stuff in decades. Have fun :)
 
7:01 PM
And stuff above second is kind of a mystery to me
@TedShifrin you probably remember that the various curvatures are only degenerate elliptic because of diffeomorphism invariance
that's why short-time existence for Ricci flow took such a long time to get right
and what makes the Einstein equations hard, etc.
 
I remember how technical Yau's lectures were when he had just proved Calabi.
 
huh, another name in the literature for Frobenius norm is "unit column norm"
 
@TedShifrin that's a fully nonlinear PDE which is a whole other can of worms
 
it's not a common one by any means
 
Well, I don't open those cans of worms any more.
 
7:04 PM
hrm
or maybe they mean "the column norm is unity"
ugh, terminology
 
@TedShifrin thankfully I did a project on perfect fluids in GR last summer and this Kazdan-Warner stuff fits in there wrt. the techniques
 
@BalarkaSen Wait I thought I had something different
 
ugh, hell with it. Let $U_1,U_2$ be n-by-2 matrices whose columns are unit vectors.
 
Hm so where did I mess up
 
I don't see anything wrong with my computation
 
7:11 PM
Right, your computation was right
 
then $\text{tr}(U_1^T U_1)=\sum_{j=1}^n \sum_{k=1}^2 (U_1)_{jk}(U_1)_{jk}=1+1=2$
 
Hm so I guess I was thinking of $f$ and $g$ as (one-dimensional) vectors, which means when $\Bbb R$ transforms by $\varphi$ they don't become $f\circ\varphi$
 
Take a manifold $M = \Sigma \times \mathbb R$, in which there are two submanifolds (of the same dimension) $S_i = \sigma_i \times \mathbb R$
Each manifold $S_i$ has its own foliation
 
@Akiva Yeah
 
since $\{(U_1)_{jk}\}_{j=1,...n}$ is just the components of the $k$th column of $U_1$, and these are unit vectors
 
7:12 PM
Is there a foliation of $M$ that preserves the foliation of $S_i$?
 
and similarly $\text{tr}(U_2^T U_2)=2$
 
that is, for the same parameter, the foliation of $M$ intersects the foliations of $S_1$ and $S_2$ at the same parameter value
 
What I wanted to find was an upper bound on $\text{tr}(RU_1^T U_2)$ for $R$ an orthogonal matrix
 
@Slereah Nah. Take $M = T^2 \times \Bbb R$ with $T^2 \times 0$ foliated by lines and $T^2 \times 1$ foliated using the Reeb foliation. Pretty sure there's no global foliation on $M$ which restricts to those foliations.
I.e., "Reeb foliation and the foliation by lines are not concordant"
 
Dang it
Is there a reasonable criterion so that it's possible?
 
7:15 PM
The notion is called concordance of foliations so ideally look it up
 
Ah yes
Thanks
So basically I need three concordant foliations
 
And the simplest proof is just doing the old Cauchy-Schwarz idea: $$0\leq \text{tr}[(U_1-U_2 R)^T (U_1-U_2 R)]=\text{tr}(U_1^T U_1)+\text{tr}(U_2 R)^T U_2 R)-2 \text{tr}(U_1^T U_2 R)$$
 
@BalarkaSen The thing is, if $f:\Bbb R\to\Bbb R$ is thought of as a 1D vector field, then "differentiation with respect to $f$" is essentially $fD$
Like, differentiating a function $h$ with respect to $f$ gives you $fh'$
So the bracket would be given by $fD(gD)-gD(fD)$, which, when applied to $h$, gives you $f(gh')'-g(fh')'$
 
so $\text{tr}(R U_1^T U_2)\leq \frac12 \text{tr}(U^T_1 U_1)+\frac12 \text{tr}(U_2 R R^T U_2^T)=\frac12(2+2)=2$ and I'm done
 
And when you expand it out you get $(fg'-gf')h'$
and so $fD(gD)-gD(fD)=(fg'-gf')D$
so $[f,g]=fg'-gf'$
So, how do we express the fact that this is invariant under diffeomorphism?
 
7:21 PM
What's I'm finding interesting right now is that this is saturated only when $U_1=(a,b)=U_2 R=(c,d)R$
Which there should be a simple geometric interpretation of...
So I guess $a=c\cos \phi+d\sin \phi$, $b=-c \sin \phi+d\cos \phi$
 
I guess I want $[\varphi_*f,\varphi_*g]=\varphi_*[f,g]$ once I define $\varphi_*$ suitably
 
@BalarkaSen not 100% sure concordance is the notion I'm looking for
What I'm looking for is something like this :
Given $\sigma_{1,t}$ and $\sigma_{2,t}$, I'm looking for a foliation $\Sigma_t$
Is that what concordance is concerned with?
It seems to be more about different foliations on the same manifold
 
$\sum_{k=1}^{\infty} [u'_k(t) + \alpha u_k(t)]J_0(\beta_k r) = C$, with $J_0$ being the Bessel function of first kind, $\beta_k$ being its zeros and $C$ some constant. Any chance of solving this?
 
@BalarkaSen So I saw online that if it's a vector field on $\Bbb R^n$, then $[X,Y]=(DX)Y-(DY)X$, where $DX$ and $DY$ are the Jacobians ($D$ here is used like in Ted's textbook)
(like the matrix made of all the partial derivatives)
What happens if we try to define something as $(DX)Y$? Does this no longer commute with pushforwards/pullbacks, like the Lie bracket has to?
 
7:37 PM
What to do about such spammers:
 
In other words, is $(DX)Y$ not coordinate-invariant?
 
 
Can you report users on this site?
 
I don't know about that.
 
@DogAteMy: In general (on a manifold) that expression won't even make sense without a connection.
 
7:39 PM
And now, he has even changed his question!
 
Yeah but on $\Bbb R^n$
 
Someone please flag that pic for moderator attention.
And he edited again!
 
Like, it's not obvious that $(DX)Y-(DY)X$ would be invariant to stuffs but that $(DX)Y$ wouldn't @TedShifrin
 
@TedShifrin bonsoir, s'il vous plait comment trouver la dérivée du déterminant? avez vous un pdf ou il est expliqué comment montrer que W'(t)=tr(A) W(t) ?
Merci
 
hey mods
 
7:41 PM
@Abcd That's not what flags are for in chat.
 
One spammer has entered Math.SE
 
doode....
 
Do not use offensive flags for contents that is not offensive.
 
flag as spam. use on-site moderator flags.
 
Then contact the Math.SE mods.
 
7:41 PM
You're notifying all mods and user with 10k reputation across SE, not getting math mods.
 
@Vogel612 How to report spammers?
 
@Abcd Raise a flag on the main site, not in chat.
3
 
Or flag something on the main site like ACuriousMind said
 
Don't ping a mod for something mundane like this
 
Just flag the post with a custom reason. The mods will get to it.
 
7:43 PM
Non, @Vrouvrou, je n'en connais pas un. Mais si on suppose les $X_i$ indépendants, on écrit $AX_i = \sum b_{ij} X_j$ et on doit employer le fait que det est multilinéaire pour prendre la dérivée.
 
Abcd: to be fair, the reason that the question was defaced is probably that the person got what they wanted: you solved their homework for them math.stackexchange.com/a/2671020/630
I suspect that they just want to hide it from the professor now
 
Exemplifying what is so baddddd about MSE :(
 
How does one become a moderator, anyway? I guess it's a combination of rep and availability
Or maybe it's a closed group by now
 
@AkivaWeinberger You get elected.
 
7:45 PM
Ah, interesting!
 
I was actually just elected about 1 week ago
 
Moderators are elected when SE thinks there is a need
 
Well, when individual sites think there is a need
 
Unless it's on a beta site, in which case you get announced a moderator pro tempore by the SE team.
 
In my case, it's because the flags were piling up, and a different mod was stepping down, so we elected two new mods.
But with becoming a mod on one site, you also become a mod across chat, so flagging things in chat means I'll end up seeing it, even though I can't help with the vandalism in this case
 
7:47 PM
Me too.
 
@Ted okay so this is something I said to Balarka with no warranty and I just want to run it by to see if it makes sense since it just came to mind at 2AM in bed
 
What does the reply "disputed" to a flag mean?
 
I guess most of you aren't actually mods but are just users with >10k rep (like me somehow)
 
Demonark: I need to leave soon, but ok.
 
7:48 PM
 
We proved today in class that the Laplacian has a one-sided inverse (surjective), and our prof said that we'd need some regularity theory to get it fully
 
@TedShifrin je peux utiliser ca: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobi%27s_formula
 
317
Q: What is a disputed flag?

BrandonIn my flagging summary under the statistics, there is 1 flag listed as "disputed". This is the first time I've ever seen a disputed flag in my summary, so I'm just curious, what is a disputed flag? How would you even dispute a flag? Is this the same as voting a flag as invalid? Return to FAQ in...

 
Now, some friends of mine doing PDE have told me that harmonic functions are analytic
 
FYI, DogAteMy, we elected Pedro and Daniel Fischer a few years ago.
Yes, that's correct, Demonark.
real analytic
 
7:50 PM
What is disputable about this:
Is that even an answer? It's just a comment!
 
So would the idea be that if $\Delta u = \Delta v$, then $u-v$ is harmonic, but we're working in a space of compactly supported functions, so it has to be 0 by analyticity.
 
It's also not even true, @Abcd.
 
That's probably a good question for meta.mathematics.stackexchange.com
whoops
 
Hint: just do [meta]
 
I'm headed out now o/
 
7:51 PM
And then this implies injectivity, so the Laplacian has an actual inverse. Does that make sense? Ish?
 
Demonark: I guess I don't know the setting here. It's easy to prove using Green's formulas (based on Green/Stokes) that boundary values uniquely determine a harmonic function.
 
@Hosch250 Oooh, thanks
 
I see
 
Hm, what's the derivative of $\frac{f\circ\varphi}{\varphi'}$?
 
7:57 PM
Demonark: Compactly supported harmonic functions aren't too interesting on a noncompact space. They're already 0.
 
So it's $(f'\circ\varphi)-(f\circ\varphi)\frac{\varphi''}{\varphi'^2}$
 
Yeah that's what i was using to show injectivity. But hmm, do you know of a good source for the proof that harmonic functions are analytic, among other things?
 
Hmm, offhand I don't, but Eric or 0celo should. But my point is that you don't need it for this. It's just Green's formulas.
 
Why does it follow that an algebraic integer is a root of unity if all of its conjugates have norm $1$?
 
Wait so I know you have Green's theorem, what are Green's formulas?
 
8:01 PM
$$\sum _{r=0}^ {20} \dbinom{19}{r-1}\dbinom{20}{20-r}$$, I don't think Vandermonde's Identity can help here...
This is what I got after simplification of:
 
Google, Demonark. I have to eat lunch and leave in a hurry. You'll find 'em. Or ask me later.
 
So the real identity is, if $[f,g]:=fg'-gf'$, then:$$\left[\frac{f\circ\varphi}{\varphi'}, \frac{g\circ\varphi}{\varphi'}\right]= \frac{[f,g]\circ\varphi}{\varphi'}$$where $f,g,\varphi:\Bbb R\to\Bbb R$ @BalarkaSen
 
$\sum r\dbinom{20}{r}^2$
 
Alright, see you!
 
ABD
Hey guys, Is it possible the range have a larger cardinality than the domain ?
 
8:07 PM
For a function? No
for a graph, sure
 
ABD
Thanks :)
 
@Abcd Hey bro , do you have some tricks or shortcuts for some concepts or particular type of questions ?
 
@TedShifrin vous etes la s'il vous plait ?
 
What's the range/domain of a graph?
 
@Akiva 1) It's a folly to think about vector fields in $\Bbb R^n$. A vector field on a manifold $M$ is in general not a smooth function to $\Bbb R^n$; only if $M$ is parallelizable (i.e., $TM \cong M \times \Bbb R^n$) 2) $D$ there means the affine connection.
That's the symmetry condition I told you, $\nabla_X Y - \nabla_Y X = [X, Y]$.
The top 10 mysteries of all time
 
8:10 PM
⊢ dom 𝐴 = {𝑥 ∣ ∃𝑦 𝑥𝐴𝑦}
⊢ ran 𝐴 = dom ◡𝐴
 
@AkivaWeinberger Right.
 
A vector field on an open set of the manifold can look like a vector field on $\Bbb R^n$ if that open set is a chart
 
Sure, but think about what happens when you change charts.
 
@BalarkaSen :thinking:
 
This is the physicists's way of thinking about global objects on manifolds. Locally write a formula, see how it changes under coordinate transformations.
 
8:12 PM
yeah
It's theorem 6.34 of Lee, I think
 
Then throw in a bunch of bullshit words like "gauge transformations" randomly and you're a physicist.
 
That the two are equivalent
@BalarkaSen My feelings!
 
You just got rekt my dude
 
@BalarkaSen saw my post btw?
You sure it's concordant foliations?
 
Oh yeah I did
Concordant is about a foliation on $M \times I$ extending given foliations on $M \times 0$ and $M \times 1$
You're asking something along that line but not quite
 
8:14 PM
@BalarkaSen Luckily, we know that the Lie bracket is the same no matter what chart we choose.
 
yeah
It's extending foliations on submanifolds
 
I can't give you a reference for this.
 
(Though that's mysterious when you just look at the coordinates.)
 
On two submanifolds, even
 
Oh also back in SGA I think I mostly finished the explanation of the Laplacian
 
8:15 PM
I'm pretty sure it's true if the submanifolds are part of the set of Nice Submanifolds
 
@AkivaWeinberger Lie derivative is a big big big big big mystery.
 
But I don't know
 
@Daminark Yeah I got disconnected, I'm reading it now
 
Most important Diff. Geo. theorem for a physicist :p
 
@BalarkaSen To find it at a point, diffeomorph it so that the open set around that point looks like $\Bbb R^n$ and so that $X$ looks constant. Then take the directional derivative of $Y$ with respect to $X$.
That's essentially the same idea as the flowy liney thing you were telling me about before.
 
8:19 PM
Right.
 
Though, still, neither of those descriptions make antisymmetry clear.
 
I guess this will have to be a MSE question
 
hAvE yU dRaWn ThE sQuaRe
 
I don't know what square!
I've drawn a square in my head but it's bad at telling me stuff
@BalarkaSen So here's another question
 
0
Q: Extending foliations of submanifolds

SlereahTake a manifold $M \cong \Sigma \times \mathbb{R}$, in which there are two submanifolds (of the same dimensions), $S_1$ and $S_2$, such that $S_i \cong \sigma_i \times \mathbb R$. Each of these submanifolds has a foliation $\sigma_{i}(t)$. Does there exist a foliation of $M$, $\Sigma(t)$, such th...

plz halp
 
8:26 PM
Say we have a diffeomorphism of $M$ that fixes $X$ and $Y$. Clearly, it must also fix $[X,Y]$. Is there any other vector field that must be fixed?
Well, I guess $[X,[X,Y]]$ and the like
And $X+Y$
 
How can I find how many k dimensional faces is in a n-dimensional polyhedra
 
I think I mean "automorphism", not "diffeomorphism", actually
Sorry
 
($f_* [X, Y] = [f_* X, f_* Y]$ in general.)
 
Yeah I wrote that above EDIT: Oh, I wrote it with $f$ and $g$
 
@quallenjäger binomial coefficient
 
8:29 PM
How can I see this is true
 
Hm
 
Is there a way to count it?
 
I think I might know at least one case where there might not be any such foliation
 
$2^{k+1} {n \choose k+1}$
How can I see that this formula is true
 
Take two parallel cylinders in $R^n$, with opposite foliations
 
8:30 PM
@quallenjäger What type of polyhedron
 
For instance each circle is labeled by $z$ in one and $-z$ in the other
 
Oh I thought you wrote simplex.
My bad.
 
Simplex (tetrahedron thing)? Hypercube (cube thing)?
 
I don't think there would be a foliation for this
the slices would cross
 
And I think the word would be polytope in general dimension
 
8:31 PM
Is there a graph for which no optimal coloring has a color class which is maximally independent?
 
defined by $P:=\{(x_1,..,x_n)\mid|x_1|+|x_2|+...+|x_n|<1\}$
Is it right?
oh yes it is right.
missing brackets though
how can I deduce the formula that I mentioned above
 
Sounds like a hypercube.
 
\{ and \} in LaTeX
and \mid for the middle bar so spacing is nice
@BalarkaSen No, isn't it an octahedron thing? What's that called
 
Oh maybe
 
8:33 PM
Still dual to a hypercube ain't it
 
Cross-polytope
is the name
@BalarkaSen Yeah
 
So the counting shouldn't be a problem
 
Any idea how I get $2^{k+1}{n \choose k+1}$?
for numbers of k-dimensional face
 
So there are $2n$ vertices @quallenjäger
$(\pm1,0,0,\dots,0)$ and permutations of that
 
8:34 PM
Ex: The octahedron has 6 vertices, two per axis
Each face can have at most one vertex per axis
No face has two opposite vertices (again, think octahedron)
So you first choose the axes of the vertices of your face, and then for each axis you choose which of the two vertices you want to use
 
@AkivaWeinberger Let $\gamma^X_p$ denote the integral curve of $X$ starting at a point $p$. Draw the square $\gamma^X_p[0, t] \cup \gamma^Y_{\gamma^X_p(t)}[0, t] \cup \gamma^X_{\gamma^Y_{\gamma^X_p(t)}(t)}[0, t] \cup \gamma^Y_{\gamma^X_{\gamma^Y_{\gamma^X_p(t)}(t)}(t)}[0, t]$, is what I meant, where $X$ and $Y$ are scaled to be unit vector fields, say.
I'm become the god of horrendous notation
 
@BalarkaSen the hell is this
 
A square
 
@BalarkaSen SEND ME A PICTURE
 
Are those vector flows
 
8:37 PM
WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU JUST WRITTEN
Sorry that was instinctive
 
@Alessandro
This is getting out of hand
 
I'm sorry for shouting at you
 
@AkivaWeinberger How does the binomial coefficient come into play<ß
I still cant get how to count it.
 
Choosing the axes
Choose the axes, choose the vertices for each axis
^Picture
See how you have six vertices, call them X+, X-, Y+, Y-, Z+, and Z-
Say I want to choose an edge
First I can choose two axes (say I want X and Z)
Then I can choose the signs (say I choose X- and Z+)
That specifies an edge
specifically one in the top back of the picture
Note that for a 1-dimensional vertex (e.g. an edge) I had to choose two vertices
 
@Akiva In any case, more seriously, I wanted to draw a square of flowlines
 
8:42 PM
@BalarkaSen Also are any of those meant to have ${}^{-1}$ signs on them
 
Oh yeah probably
 
and for 2 dimensional I choose then three axis?
 
rip
Well not inverse signs, some t's would be -t's
 
Didn't I find an MSE question that had that picture on it a while ago?
@BalarkaSen Oh yeah
 
$\gamma^X_p[0, t] \cup \gamma^Y_{\gamma^X_p(t)}[0, t] \cup \gamma^X_{\gamma^Y_{\gamma^X_p(t)}(t)}[0, -t] \cup \gamma^Y_{\gamma^X_{\gamma^Y_{\gamma^X_p(t)}(t)}(-t)}[0, -t]$
4
Fixed.
 
8:43 PM
This?
 
Right
 
Yeah but how does that relate to flowlines
 
To Lie bracket you mean
 
Yeah I mean
 
I mean too
 
8:44 PM
the definition where you see how fast one vector field changes as the manifold flows through the other vector field
 
Hm
Let's thonk about this for a while
Also can you please star the thing I wrote above
"Balarka I think I'm gonna have to flag that message for inappropriate content" - @Daminark on discord
 
Wait what if $X$ is constant again
On $\Bbb R^n$
 
So the flowlines are straightlines
 
Not $Y$'s
 
Sounds like you'll precisely get dir derv of $Y$ along $X$
It's be a parallelogram with top and bottom parallel straightlines
and $Y$ goes, does it's thing, comes back, does it's backward thing
 
8:50 PM
So you start at $0$
you go to $\epsilon\hat\imath$ following $X$ for a bit
You got to $\epsilon\hat\imath+\epsilon f(\epsilon,0)$
You go backwards to $\epsilon f(\epsilon,0)$
and then uh you go to $\epsilon f(\epsilon,0)-\epsilon f\big(\epsilon f(\epsilon,0)\big)$?
Wha
 
Oh no I see
I see I see I see
 
Enlighten me oh knower of secrets
 
@AkivaWeinberger It won't be a full square in general as in the picture you gave me, right? So like say you start with $p$ then doing this ends you up at $q$
This means the flowline of $[X, Y]$ goes from $p$ to $q$ in time $t$
 
Right so the point is that dividing by $\epsilon$ (or $\epsilon^2$?) and taking the limit should give us $f_x(0)$
 
That's what's happening
 
8:56 PM
And how do I get that from $\epsilon f(\epsilon,0)-\epsilon f\big(\epsilon f(\epsilon,0)\big)$
Maybe, actually
maybe this would be better if I follow $Y$ first
So I start at $0$
I go to $\epsilon f(0)$
I go to $\epsilon f(0)+\epsilon\hat\imath$
I then go to $\epsilon f(0)+\epsilon\hat\imath-\epsilon f(\epsilon f(0)+\epsilon\hat\imath)$
 
Hmm
 
I finally go to $\epsilon f(0)-\epsilon f(\epsilon f(0)+\epsilon\hat\imath)$
 
what are we doing
 
Trying to relate a wobbly square to a directional derivative
 

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