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4:00 AM
@JoeShmo meh.
trying to understand every line is a dark road
@Semiclassical duuuuuuuuuuude what if I use a density argument
 
duuuuuuuuude
 
@Semiclassical can u take some pde classes so we have more pde ppl here
 
who buys girl scout cookies?
 
I want to say something funny but I would get persecuted.
@Semiclassical Turns out the people with a combined like 20 annals papers were right, they just didn't express themselves correctly
so, topologists.
 
4:06 AM
pdes are computation torture. the end
 
trol
 
no I took it
like almost four years ago
there's a lot of computation and if you get something wrong it screws everything up x.x
 
unless you're Yau
then you can do everything wrong and still get an annals paper
@Semiclassical I can't into matrices. A linear map $R^n\to R$ can only fail to be surjective if it's identically zero right
 
That sounds right?
 
rank nullity
 
4:13 AM
yeah
 
Here's a linear algebra thing that's bugging me.
Suppose I've got $M=\begin{pmatrix} a & b \\ c & d\end{pmatrix}$.
If I want to compute the sum of the elements, that's as simple as $u^T M u$ where $u=(1,1)^T$.
But if I want to do the trace, then that's $e_1^T M e_1+e_2^T M e_2$
Is there some obvious way, given a linear combination $xa+yb+zc+td$, to say whether I can write it as $x^T M x$?
 
algebra is too hard
 
bleh
I can do it if I use the vectorization operation $M\mapsto (a,b,c,d)^T$
but bleeeh
 
what does that do for you here
 
well, then I can just express any linear combination by a dot product e.g. $a+b-c+d=(a,b,c,d) (1,1,-1,1)^T$
but ugh
tbh this approach I'm on just feels off
 
4:28 AM
@Semiclassical did you try looking at the polynomial in 2 variables you have to satisfy to do this
it seems kind of unenlightening i guess
 
Not sure what you mean
Lemme say where I'm starting from a bit more
 
you can just compute $x^{T}Mx$ for $x = (u, v)$ and it gives you apolynomial in $(u, v)$ with coefficients coming from the coefficients in $M$.
 
hmmmmmm
That's suggestive.
 
to be expressible this way you have to have this form then
 
bleh, but that's kinda inconvenient here.
$M=(a_1 \; a_2)^T (b_1\; b_2)$ with $a_1,a_2,b_1,b_2$ column vectors
and necessarily $M_{jk}=a_j^T b_k$
And I'll further assume that these are all unit vectors.
So then $x^T M x=(u a_1+va_2)^T(u b_1+vb_2)$...meh
 
4:35 AM
delicious index hell
om nom nom
 
om nom nom on my brain
 
oh the humanity
 
Somehow there's supposed to be an inequality on the quantity $a_1^T b_1+a_2^T b_1+a_1^2 b_2-a_2^T b_2$
But that just seems so weirdly non-symmetric
 
oh crud
I think I need to scroll up. I saw something that I need
 
if a matrix is surjective, is the adjoint injective?
inb4 fredholm theory
 
4:46 AM
finite dim is easy if u assume ur on an inner product space
too tired for infinite dim subtleties
 
Yeah so in a Banach space you have that the closure of the image of $f$ is the perp of the kernel of $f^*$
 
I know
that's why I said no fredholm
 
Wait is that what you call fredholm?
 
it's all related
 
Well sure but I thought fredholm was a very specific theorem
 
4:51 AM
anything talking about the range of linear operators might as well be fredholm
@Daminark it is
 
the fredholm alternative is a specific theorem, fredholm theory is just the fredholm alternative said like 50 ways
 
fredholm alternative isn't really that specific because in applications it takes a billion forms
Like I'm trying to get a Fredholm alternative for injective elliptic operators
 
i was being very nonserious
 
So, here's the inequality I'm trying to understand how the hell it can be true
21 mins ago, by Semiclassical
$M=(a_1 \; a_2)^T (b_1\; b_2)$ with $a_1,a_2,b_1,b_2$ column vectors
20 mins ago, by Semiclassical
And I'll further assume that these are all unit vectors.
Apparently it's the case that $M_{11}+M_{12}+M_{21}-M_{22}\leq 2\sqrt{2}$.
And I have no idea how to show that.
 
5:43 AM
adjoint usually implies inner product space
 
5:59 AM
@Semiclassical If $M=(a~b)^T(c~d)$ you have $a\cdot c+a\cdot d+b\cdot c-b\cdot d$ which factors as $a\cdot(c+d)+b\cdot(c-d)$ which is maximized when $a\|(c+d)$ and $b\|(c-d)$ are parallel which yields a max value of $\|c+d\|+\|c-d\|$. If you draw a unit-side rhombus and notice the perpendicular diagonals split it into four right triangles, you see this is $2[\cos(\theta/2)+\sin(\theta/2)]$ (where $0\le\theta\le\pi/2$ wlog). Maximizing that is simple.
also, what kind of operations on a matrix would yield an expression like $M_{11}+M_{12}+M_{21}-M_{22}$? Maybe like ${\rm tr}([\begin{smallmatrix} 1&1\\1&-1\end{smallmatrix}]M)$
also, where $\theta$ is the angle between $c$ and $d$ ^
 
6:18 AM
Testing mathjax $\ce{H2O}$
$/ce{H20}$
 
6:29 AM
@anon hmm, I like that last one
 
 
2 hours later…
8:23 AM
@Balarka you here?
 
9:06 AM
Hi,

is that true ? $||A^2|| \cdot ||{A^2}^{-1}|| = ||A|| \cdot ||A|| \cdot ||A^{-1}|| \cdot ||A^{-1}||$
for $A \in \mathbb{R}^{n \times n}$
 
@0celo7 oh I forgot to give you the non-Fredholm answer earlier, whoops
In case it's still something you want to know, for matrices rank-nullity is all you need
Let's say you have an $m\times n$ matrix, it's surjective iff the rank is $m$. Well, its transpose is $n\times m$ and also has rank $m$. But by rank-nullity the kernel is $0$
 
9:48 AM
Hi,
Is it true $\forall P\in \mathbb Z[x,y] $ with $P(4,3)=P(2,4)=P(4,4)=P(1,2)= P(1,3)-3$, then$\forall R,Q \in \mathbb Z[x],P(x,y)\neq R(x)+Q(y)$ ?
source : les dattes à Dattier
 
10:11 AM
@Alessandro My internet broke, but now I am
 
Cool
I might have forgotten the name of the book and the author to, umh..., find a copy of it
 
Ah yes
It's Candel-Conlon "Foliations I"
you can copyleft it in libgen
 
is that what kids say these day for "steal"
 
please
copyleft $\neq$ stealing
 
Tell it to the judge, criminal scum
 
10:22 AM
I'll go to the Russian judge
 
30 years gulag
 
How fortunate, my favourite Russian bookstore had a copy with fast delivery, it just arrived
 
@Slereah only to you for baseless accusations of me being a thief
 
Uhm I'm not sure I have the background to read past the index, which chapter were you thinking about?
 
“What is the definition of a circle?” asked the examiner.
“It is the set of points in a plane, equidistant from a fixed point,” Edik replied.
“Wrong,” said the examiner. “It is the set of *all* points in a plane, equidistant from a fixed point.”
Math seemed pretty harsh in the soviet union
 
10:28 AM
@Alessandro pg 110
"End of Manifolds"
Don't worry about the background, you have it. If we run into some terminology I can explain
 
“What is the definition of a circle?”
4
Q: A new characterization of an annulus in the plane?

DattierLet $K$ a connected compact subset of the Euclidean plane which has an infinite set of reflection symmetries. Does this imply that $K$ is an annulus ? Source : les dattes à Dattier

 
@Slereah It is true. The vertex set of a regular polygon is not a circle to me
 
"Although this makes sense forall connected, finite-dimensional cell complexes" can't ends actually be defined in any topological space?
 
"A talented Jewish mathematician sometimes found an education at the Institute of Metallurgy or the Pedagogical Institute. Others would enroll in the Institute of Railway Engineers, whose Russian abbreviation sounded like MEED. This led to the saying, “Esli zheed, idi v MEED”—“If you’re a Jew [the rhyme scheme requires a pejorative term here], then go to MEED.”"
 
Salut Anna Ershler
Tu es en vacance ?
Combien tu as ouvert de compte ici ?
S'il le faut en fait tous les participants de ce chat, ne sont que tes avatars ...
Les gnostiques sont vraiment bizarre...
 
10:34 AM
@Alessandro I think so
 
Vous ne savez pas que le fait de se sentir supérieur aux autres vous rend en fait, inférieur aux autres...lol
 
@Slereah but he used the words "the set", not "a set", so the examiner is wrong!
 
I think you define an end of $X$ to be a decreasing sequence $U_1 \supset U_2 \supset U_3 \supset \cdots$ such that $X \setminus U_i = K_i$ is a compact set.
 
@skullpatrol it's a trick
u see
Edik was a jew
 
Wikipedia agrees. So for example $[0,1]\times[0,1]$ without the corners would have $4$ ends, which makes sense
 
10:35 AM
So he was excluded on that basis
 
And then you topologize that somehow.
 
Bon aller je te laisse, tu feras la bise à Poutine de ma part...lol
 
@Alessandro Well I think for bad topological spaces the endspace gets weirder
Who cares?
 
@BalarkaSen $U_n$ is a connected component of $X\setminus K_i$, not the whole complements (you'd always get a single end otherwise I think?)
 
Probably
I'm going to read the book now
 
10:37 AM
@Slereah EEEWWW :P
 
USSR gave Jews hell of a hard time
 
There's actually the definition in the book, maybe reading it instead of speculating is a good plan
 
But looks like our guesses were not far from the right one
 
There's too much clutter here. Let's move elsewhere
 
10:40 AM
I'll stop.
 
11:09 AM
Determine $F_{2 ^{2^{2018}}} \text { mod } (2^{89} -1)$ of the Fibonacci sequence (remember that $2^{89} -1$ is a prime integer).
 
11:24 AM
0
Q: Derivative of a product with respect to the multiplier and generalization

user8469759Say I have a differentiable function $$ f(x) = f(g(x),h(x)) = g(x)h(x) $$ If I compute $df/dx$ I can apply the product rule, but what about $$ \frac{df}{dg} = ? $$ what can I do in this case? The only attempt is this one $$ \frac{df}{dg} = \frac{df}{dx} \frac{dx}{dg} = \left(g'(x)h(x) + g(x...

 
Oh, fait alors Anna toujours a volé à droite à gauche des résultats que tu n'auras jamais trouvé toutes seules, et cela pour avoir ta médaille...lol
Vraiment, cela fait pitié tu insultes les auteur des résultats qui t'intéressent tu les décourage et t'approprie leur travaille
cela porte un nom : VAMPIRE !
Mais tu n'es pas la seule dans ce cas tes collégues aussi suive ta pente
Cela fait vraiment pitié
Heureusement que les Gauss et compagnies ne sont pas tombé de se travers...
Mais va savoir, en louchant sur des livres non publié, parce que les auteurs étaient honnis...lol
PLAGIAIRES !
vous manquez singulièrement d'imagination, et vous croyez qu'en faisant des cérémonies barbares, cela va vous rendre plus intelligent...vous êtes vraiment des idiots...
Tchuss.
 
0
Q: Derivative of $\left( a_{i,j}(x_{i,j} \right)_{1 \leq i \leq n, j \leq 1 \leq n}$

user8469759Hi guys I have a matrix in $\mathbb{R}^{m \times n}$ where each entry $a_{ij}$ depends from a different vector variable, namely $$ a_{ij} = a_{ij}(x_1^i,x_2^j) $$ So in case $m = n = 2$ it would be something like $$ A(\vec{x})=\begin{pmatrix} a_{11}(x_1^1,x_2^1) & a_{12}(x_1^1,x_2^2) \\ a_{21}...

 
11:53 AM
vous manquez singulièrement d'imagination, et vous croyez qu'en faisant des cérémonies barbares, cela va vous rendre plus intelligent...vous êtes vraiment des idiots...
Tchuss.
 
12:17 PM
Is this true : $(\Sigma_1 \times \Bbb R) \# (\Sigma_2 \times \Bbb R) \approx (\Sigma_1 \# \Sigma_2) \times \mathbb R$
 
12:29 PM
"But for higher d, these ad hoc methods no longer work. Nevertheless, there is an elegant proof of Theorem 1, due to Mazur, and known as Mazur’s swindle. "
I've been swindled!
Hm
$$(\Sigma_1 \times \Bbb R) \# (\Sigma_2 \times \Bbb R) = [(\Sigma_1 \times \Bbb R) \sqcup (\Sigma_2 \times \Bbb R)] / \sim$$
I guess I'd need $\times$ to be distributive with $\sqcup$
which sounds reasonable?
it is true for unions
So that should be true
 
12:49 PM
What is the definition of a linear space, when used for the lie group $GL(n)$, it's not a vector space, but then what does it mean to say that it is a linear space?
 
1:00 PM
I cannot work out from head to toe what Dattier is on about, other than it has something to do with an annulus algebraic thing
 
@Slereah sorta reminds me of “Wigner’s surmise”
@Secret there are some people who just exist in their own mathematical world
 
Seriously, I would be more willing to talk to him if he did not always implicitly force people to say he is superior
 
Yep
Living in your own world is fine so long as you don’t insist that other people should live there too
4
 
I also ramble a lot of weird maths I do on this chat and other places, but I never force anyone to accept my ideas, in fact, I am happy whenever they found something that is limiting or makes no sense, because the collaboration process will allow us all to refine our knowledge on the field in question
That's why the literature exists, it is there to give us a bearing on what we knew so far as a species
 
Right. There’s a measure of humility that’s needed
 
1:17 PM
The humblest quote I've heard in awhile is Einstein admitting to a twelve year old how weak he is at math.
 
Einstein was pretty bad at GR, too
He barely did any GR solutions
Or even theorems
How many GR things can you think that involve Einstein
 
1:35 PM
Not counting the field equations themselves?
 
Hey @Kasmir
 
Though his path to those was certainly not a straight one, and his algebra work on them had a tendency to go haywire
 
@MatheinBoulomenos heey mathein :D
I got your email ! :D
But I think you missunderstood me yesterday >< i said tomorrow at 11 am ><
@MatheinBoulomenos but thanks alot :'D
 
you said 13 am is fine
 
13 am ...
 
1:38 PM
Yes yes my point is that we have 1 day more
 
haha =p
anyway :D i hope it was not stressfull for you
 
He did a lot for GR
 
no, it's fine
 
But not so much the mathematical aspect
 
1:38 PM
it was fun
 
@Semiclassical what is wrong with 13 am?
I mean it is understood what is meant ._.
 
yo what is up DRAMALERTNATION
 
@MatheinBoulomenos thanks a million again ! :)
 
1 hour past 12 am is 1 pm
 
I know semi -.-
 
1:40 PM
11 am = -1 pm
 
@Semiclassical only with probability 1/3 for me
mostly likely it's 1 am and I'm deep in sleep
 
The weird thing is 12 am = 0 pm
 
but there is no danger of missunderstanding anyone who uses 13 am
using 1 am however
 
Oh damn. I forgot that 11 pm plus one hour is 12 am
 
could lead to comfusion if one does not distinguish am from pm :D
 
1:41 PM
just use the 24 hour system
there's no confusion there
 
haha yes i think that is the right way
 
I use the 45 hour system
 
@MatheinBoulomenos tbh that’s the right solution
 
It's 27 past 15
 
in the US one also talks about military time
In which case 2 pm = 1400 hours for instance
Which is said as fourteen hundred hours despite that hundred having no real meaning
 
1:44 PM
@Semiclassical Are you available right now ? I have a question that's bothering me . @skullpatrol told me I could ask you.
 
Depends on the question
 
@Semiclassical The question is how to prove the Calabi Yau conjecture.
 
Yeah, it’s side-to-side oscillations
and as JR noted there it comes down to carefully writing down the restoring force as a function of the angular displacement
 
@Semiclassical So , the restoring force would be $2Tsin\theta$ ?
 
1:50 PM
hmm. Yes, insofar as theta is the angle to the vertical
 
@Semiclassical which can then be written as $mg\sin\theta$ ?
 
not so sure about that off the top of my head.
 
well at equilibrium position , $2T=mg$ , so...yea @Semiclassical
 
The bigger concern I’d have is the center of mass position as a function of theta
 
@Semiclassical yes that is my doubt ideed
 
1:53 PM
An approach that should also work here is to deal with torque instead of force
Not completely sure that’s easier but it may be worth trying
 
@Semiclassical oh yes ! I completely forgot about it . Can you run me through it ?
 
Topologists, I need aesthetic advice
 
Not right now, no. On here via mobile
 
What would be the ideal symbol to define the glueing of two manifolds
 
@Semiclassical okay just let me know how to proceed with it
 
1:55 PM
For the simple pendulum using torque
 
Say I have a manifold defined by the gluing of a manifold triad $(M, \partial M_1, \partial M_2)$ with a homeomorphism $h : \partial M_1 \to \partial M_2$
What should be the ideal symbol for it
 
@Semiclassical Thanks , I'll try it again and will let you know.
 
Can't use the $M_1 \cup_h M_2$ of the gluing of two manifolds
Since this is a single manifold
 
Some things that will changr here: For one, the moment of inertia will not just be mr^2
And it’ll depend on how you choose your axis of rotation
 
@Semiclassical yes , will I need to integrate it from the point of suspension ?
 
1:58 PM
Depends. Do you know the moment of inertia of a disk?
That’s the only integral you’d possibly need to do here
(And possibly the parallel axis theorem)
 
$I_{disc}=\frac{mR^2}{2}$ for an axis passing through the center and perpendicular to the plane of the disc
 
Right.
 
Oh no
Apparently the standard paper on cutting and pasting manifold is in German
Differenzierbare G-Mannigfaltigkeiten
Cut and paste-related things are apparently under the symbol $SK$
 
Hmm @Semiclassical do I calculate $I$ like perpendicular to the plane or parallel to the plane of the disc ?
 
Some horrible German words I assume
 
2:02 PM
So if you take the line through center of the disk as your axis it’ll be that. That may or may not be the smartest one here
Remember how torques are defined as vectors and you’ll have your answer
 
@Semiclassical uhmm, I don't get that.
 
Then you should review how torque works
 
SK is Schneiden and Kleben
 
okay
@Semiclassical Got it , since $\tau$ will be into the plane of the disc , so should be $I$ !
 
2:31 PM
@Tanuj not sure what you mean by that
As ever in a torque approach, the main thing to clarify is what your choice of axis is
Without that there's always going to be ambiguity
 
the axis surely has to be through the point of suspension and perpendicular to the plane of paper
 
with the latter, I'll agree entirely.
the former isn't actually necessary but it's an obvious choice and certainly a reasonable one
 
@Semiclassical okay got you.
 
Oh.
Which point of suspension?
There's two here :/
 
@Semiclassical the point where the whole system is hanging from
 
@Semiclassical ahhh righttt
 
Yeah.
So you either need to pick one of these support points specifically, or you need to choose the center differently.
 
What should be it then ?
 
I'll suggest the latter. To me the best choice here is the midpoint between the two points of support.
 
@Semiclassical I don't know man , is it feasible ?
 
2:38 PM
Yes. The choice of axis cannot make a difference in whether the problem is solvable or not.
All it can do, for better or worse, is make solving easier.
Moreover, there's at least one benefit to picking this point over one of the support points: The displacement from the midpoint to the center of mass stays the same, regardless of the angle of deflection.
Another choice, I should note, would be to take the center of the disk.
I'm not sure which of these two is easier.
Hmm. Maybe it is just as easy to pick one of the support points, though.
I'm being a bit indecisive, I know.
I think the center of the disk is easiest, in fact, because then the weight of the disk doesn't produce a torque with respect to this axis.
 
@Semiclassical If that's the case , then there wouldn't be any force providing torque
 
Wrong: There's still the forces from the strings.
 
ah correct ,they are not connected to the center
 
right.
The moment arm diagram is also useful to remember, though I'd suggest rotating the one I'm going to link by 90 degrees:
 
@Semiclassical what would be the distance of the force of tension from the center of the disc ?
 
2:48 PM
in which case torque = (moment arm)(force)
@Tanuj depends on what you mean
 
like how would you use that here torque = (moment arm)(force)
 
center of axis in this case is the center of the disk
i guess you could equally well draw it as
the moment arm is the same in both cases, just a bit different way of orienting it
anyways. the weight force in this diagram would produce a torque = (moment arm)(force) with respect to the center of the disk
 
3:07 PM
@Semiclassical shouldn't the torque be due to tension only ?
 
yeah. I shouldn't have called the force up there the weight
it's just any force which acts vertically.
But I'm getting a bit dubious of what I have there.
 
Hey, is there an elementary function $f$ such that $f$ has an elementary inverse but $f'$ doesn't have an elementary inverse?
(Local inverse)
$e^{e^x}$ fits the bill
 
wHaT Is eLeMenTaRy
the easiest way to shut down the poser of these kind of questions without even attempting to answer the question like a real man
 
yea
 
elementary has a meaning though
it can be defined
I was just memeing
 
3:18 PM
@Tanuj Huh. Do you know what the final answer is?
I seem to be getting (1) as the answer.
 
@Semiclassical $2\pi \sqrt{\frac{l}{g}}$
its C
 
hmm
actually, I meant to say $2\pi \sqrt{R/g}$
which still disagrees, of course.
 
the explanation they've given is **"For the given situation disc will perform
translatory motion in radius l. Hence case is
like simple pendulum"**.
 
3:21 PM
is that the easiest way to shut down the people who use the easiest way to shut down the questioner @Akiva
 
But yeah the inverse of its derivative is $\ln(x)-W(x)$ which is not elementary as $W$ is not elementary
@BalarkaSen Hm maybe
 
@Semiclassical What do we do now
 
::crying laughter:: of course Besse have the wrong convention for the Riemann tensor
because being consistent would just be too easy
 
get flicked
 
Welp, looks like I have to do everything by hand because all of the equations are suspect
 
3:31 PM
I think I see what’s wrong with my approach, but I don’t see an easy fix for it @Tanuj
 
@BalarkaSen do u want an exercize
 
hmm @Semiclassical another question that goes over my head
@Semiclassical Another one maybe ?
 
@Semiclassical
YDSE stands for Young's Double Slit Experiment
 
Ugh, diffraction gratings
 
3:34 PM
@Semiclassical one of the worst aspects of physics
undeniably
 
@0celo7 agreed
 
Double slit is fun. Single slit is interesting. Diffraction gratings...euugh
 
its euugher ! or maybe euuhgest !
 
I know there’s a formula relating the maxima spacing to the grating
But I don’t remember it
 
oh ?
 
3:37 PM
Yeah
 
oh for the love of god
they define divergence with a minus
is this for real
I think I'm being punked
 
0
Q: Computing the gradient of the following function

user8469759Let $$ f(x_1,x_2) = \frac{1}{\sqrt{x_1^2+x_2^2+1}} \left(x_1,x_2,1 \right) $$ For $i = 1,2$ we have $$ \partial_{x_i} f = \frac{1}{\sqrt{x_1^2+x_2^2+1}}\left(\partial_{x_i}x_1,\partial_{x_i}x_2,0 \right) +\frac{-x_i}{\left(x_1^2+x_2^2+1\right)^{3/2}}(x_1,x_2,1) = \frac{1}{\left(x_1^2+x_2^2+1\ri...

 
3:59 PM
in endspace and other crap, 8 mins ago, by Balarka Sen
This means $K_{r(e_{n_k}, e_{m_k})} \subset K_{r(e_{n_{k+1}}, e_{m_{k+1}})}$ by our chosen increasing exhaustion $K_\alpha$.
I have transcended reality and meaning
 

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