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00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

12:00 AM
1 message moved to trash
12:36 AM
@Bob Huh?
@ThatBrazilianGuy not the most SFW image
@Bob Literally a chin, a mouth and eyes. There's a children's cartoon character with the same features
Didn't think it would be seem as NSFW, so... sorry.
12:54 AM
@ThatBrazilianGuy not saying it's necessarily bad, but it's something that looks a bit odd on a work screen :P
@ThatBrazilianGuy not meant to ... mean anything, just cleaning it up a tiny bit... I could've just written a huge message too, push it off-screen
1:09 AM
No problem. I admit it was somewhat on the... grotesque side.
Damn, coming with a decent domain name for myself is incredibly annoyingly hard.
"ThatBrazillianGuy.br" ;p
I'm pretty sure thatbrazilianguy.com isn't taken yet :P
@ThatBrazilianGuy yea, I'm more or less stuck with my current one cause I can't think of anything better :P
Half the combinations I come up are taken by people who set up a blank page and do nothing. The other half are domain squatters.
I don't know how some people do it (@Avery?)
TIL: airplane wings are actually complex rpg dungeons o.o — StarWeaver 9 hours ago
@Bob I only use this handle on SU/SE and nowhere else.
@JourneymanGeek That is not my first name, contrary to popular belief ;p
1:15 AM
@ThatBrazilianGuy Journeyman isn't mine either ;p
Yeah, everyone knows it's Ash.
@JourneymanGeek your postman probably doesn't believe you :P
You just tell the human what keys to press
1:27 AM
New AMD workstations from Velocity Micro: tomshardware.com/news/…
\o/ The number of questions is less than the closevote queue. Finally....
Is there a thing to queue edits and automatically apply them slowly (assuming there hasn't been a preempting edit)?
If not, that would be a great userscript
@BenN hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I could totally use that for this
1:31 AM
now I kinda want to write one :P
Heh, that'd be great, and if you don't want to, I might take a crack at it :)
I think I've been working on trickling in edits for months ;p
the problem with userscripts is they're usually per-page
My JS skills could use some practice
Was over a thousand posts at one point
1:32 AM
so an extension might be better
Ah, indeed
@JourneymanGeek @BenN also, another problem is clashing edits
maybe better as an external app using the API :P
@Bob Hey, that could be written in a shell :D
!!tell 40244955 no
(sorry, couldn't resist :P)
Though for managing collaboration and avoiding clashes, it'd be better to have a central site
the alternative is to use aibobot, and let people review I suppose
@BenN it could even be a website!
1:34 AM
@JourneymanGeek flooding review queues is probably worse than flooding the front page
Yeah, esp. considering the 100 cap for suggested edit reviews
@Bob true
(IIRC anyway)
@BenN I'm thinking checking if another revision has been added since
1:34 AM
I'm trying not to do both tho
yea I'll take a crack at it
I'd be quite happy, and a lot more efficient if I could do, say one every half hour
than 5 at a time
hm. @JourneymanGeek if I make a meta.SU question or two for sandbox/testing, is that alright?
@Bob Indeed, having that central site could alert new editors that they're editing something that already has one batched
There's a sandbox on MSE for testing anything you like
@BenN the MSE sandbox is mostly for answers
1:35 AM
Ah, indeed
and this'll likely be 3-4 questions with minor edit flooding
@Bob that we're automating this should be a meta question anyway
which is nbd on a slow/quiet site like meta.SU but probably not great for meta.SE
Worst case, downvoting the questions sufficiently should keep them off the front page IIRC
Or is that just from spam flags?
and I'd really like to get a CM in on this
how many meta questions are we talking? ;p
1:38 AM
@JourneymanGeek oh, max of 5
@BenN I'd rather not get Q-banned, tyvm
yeah, I'd recommend posting a question on this, then I'd go mug a CM about this
Heh, it's very tough to get Q-banned on meta, and I was thinking about socks, but fair enough :)
Though actually socks could be bad here, never mind
(dodging Q-bans is one of the bad sock uses)
Q: Queuing edits to prevent flooding

Bob Is there a thing to queue edits and automatically apply them slowly (assuming there hasn't been a preempting edit)? — Ben N Let's write a script! Goals: Queue up edits so not too many are applied at once Apply them slowly with a timer Detect if a new revision has been created since the...

100% agreed. The few times I've done tag edits, I hated having to do them in batches.
1:53 AM
Fleshed it out a bit more (@BenN, @JourneymanGeek, @bwDraco)
Any comments?
@Bob Smokey stores people's auth tokens for auto-flagging
Including some of mods (!)
@JourneymanGeek Can you ask them if they'd be alright with the test Qs?
@Bob err. trying to ;p
Looks very complicated to me. Perhaps there's a simpler way to go about doing this?
Can't quite get a CM
1:54 AM
@bwDraco The concept is simple. I'm just trying to flesh out requirements.
I'd hope that the only change to the normal editing workflow would be the addition of a little checkmark to queue the edit
@BenN I was thinking a button next to save
Ah yes, to save a click
And maybe a config panel for timer interval
> Minimal interference with the normal editing workflow.
Though maybe it'd be better to have an alternate button to start the edit; that one could notify the user of a queued conflicting one before they did any work
1:56 AM
@bwDraco Most likely a MVP would be just a local queue + apply on timer
then look at any collab stuff later
So the footer would say share edit edit(queue) close flag
Here's an idea: Let users edit questions with the tag, one after another, by automatically going to the next question.
or it diffs between the two
or goes after the tag.
@BenN I'd like to avoid any servers or collab until much, much later :P
@bwDraco the timing is the tricky part though
1:56 AM
Limit access to the tool to 10k users.
Right, just keeping things in mind for when we do get to that :)
@bwDraco Add that to the meta-Q (as answer?)!
@bwDraco I might throw aibobot for the edits for various reasons ;p
@BenN Yea, things to add to the meta-Q to track. At least until we have a GitHub page or otherwise :P
so I'd oppose the limiting access to 10k users just for selfish reasons.
1:57 AM
@bwDraco No point. Tool will be open-source anyway. And it only uses privs the user has.
@JourneymanGeek Aibobot has insufficient reputation to edit questions freely.
Heh, and 2K-10K users already have the ability to spam the front page, so we're not giving them anything new
> The user is still responsible for all edit content. This isn't an excuse to spam poor edits, and doesn't give users the ability to do anything they normally can't. The only purpose is to prevent flooding of the front page.
I mean... if I wanted to slowly add poor edits I could easily do a one-off script
using the API
This is more complex, because it integrates with the normal edit workflow. It's supposed to be reusable.
If someone starts adding lots of bad edits, mods suspend the user — the tool makes no difference.
@Bob also, the problem with a pure userscript is you'd need to keep the browser up
Indeed, I shut down at night
2:00 AM
> This tool only queues edits. It does not generate edits. The user must still make the edit themselves using the normal editor tools.
hah, I could actually keep this running in a linux box.
@JourneymanGeek Same with extension tbh. The problem with userscript is you need to stay on the page.
Extension just needs browser.
External app doesn't add much over browser + extension
External server could, but that's for later, maybe
@JourneymanGeek @BenN Oh, and. As above, I don't think it should help generate bulk edits. So no "retag all" :P
Right :)
Here's an idea that can speed up this process: Let users edit questions with the tag, one after another, by automatically going to the next question once the current question's edit has been submitted, through a special editing page accessible from the tag page. The system would queue and complete the edits at the desired interval as the user works on editing other questions. — bwDraco 1 min ago
The human element needs to be there.
2:06 AM
I might just main meta the issues involved...
@JourneymanGeek hm?
@Bob 1) test questions 2) test tags 3) transparency ;p
@JourneymanGeek don't really need test tags tbh :P
hah. really?
A: Individual community preferences vs. SE network policy: who wins?

Shog9 Anecdotal examples are nice and all, but here's the real question: to what extent can individual communities/sites override network policies? To what extend should they be able to do so? Well, they can override them to a fairly large extent, because the entire system is designed around commu...

Baaasically it seems that if the SU mod team and community are OK with some test questions for a specific, SE-constructive purpose, it should be good
2:12 AM
hmm. I'm ok with it. But we're certainly trying to solve a very specific problem that annoys me ;p
Indeed, but it appears to have rung a bell with some other members as well :)
(also, darn it. I'm PRETTY sure as a mod I don't rate an exobrain ;p)
I've heard that term a couple of places but haven't been able to figure it out from context - what does it mean to "rate an exobrain"?
Apologies if I'm missing something well-known
eh, somewhat of an inside joke.
jmac used to joke a few mods were his exobrains - basically so he didn't have to remember everything
2:17 AM
I think Ash (the mod, not the dog) has that in her profile
Heh, that sounds right
Well, its not quite my memory that's faulty. I just tend to be a little nervious about bending the rules without approval ;p
(tho once I do... mwahahahaah)
Heh, bending rules without checking with anyone would indeed be bad
Hence the need for a meta question and SU mod team consulting :)
2:20 AM
All: superuser.com/questions/1254314/… user asks question, same username submits an answer that quotes existing answer to a different question , I already flagged as a duplicate
@BenN I don't really think of test/sandbox questions as breaking rules, tbh
bending ;p
@JourneymanGeek Not even bending... it's meta, after all
Posting the test Qs on the main site would be bending/breaking
@BenN I've been meaning to learn how to make webextensions anyway, sooo... opportunity! :P
2:37 AM
@Bob eh. Not everyone would see it that way, and its nice to deal with these things on solid ground, by burying naysayers in precident ;p
@JourneymanGeek true...
Regarding the storage of tokens on the server, perhaps it would be better to not do that and instead just have the server coordinate timing between clients
TIL Xbox One internally uses Hyper-V, with games running on their own hypervisor partitions. (@BenN)
So clients could say "hey, I have this many edits" and the server's like "OK, I'll let you know when you can do one" and then later it's like "hey, you can fire one of those now"
@BenN that's what smokey does tho
and smokey is much more automated.
2:42 AM
@BenN that would require push notifications
which are a bit iffy
alternatively the client could poll I guess
but yea that's for later too :P
I think polling would be OK
Virtualization for gaming!
And Discord seems to do a fantastic job of keeping the push notifications alive
I could imagine people wanting to use this synchronization but not wanting to hand over their account to <insert RA regular here>
Smokey only needs a relatively small count of people to power the autoflagging
@BenN I don't want to deal with the security hassle either :P
2:45 AM
Polling every 5-10 minutes should be OK: "hey server, when can I do this edit?"
well, it wouldn't even need to be push
just basically go "ok, these edits are queued"
Then the client waits that long, does the edit, and says "yay it worked!" and the server's like "cool, I'll dequeue it"
@JourneymanGeek that's only if the server is submitting them
the idea is the client always submits the edits
@Bob or the server keeps track of which edits which client is planning to submit.
Yep, that's the strategy I'm describing
There's slight potential for DoS by saying "hey, I'm doing a thousand edits!" and never doing them, but that shouldn't be terribly hard to automate against, and any abusers could probably be handled individually without terribly much trouble
2:47 AM
though, that would need some degree of time sync?
@BenN server can check for failed edits. Too many failed ones and you could block em
@BenN I'm gonna create a github repo in a min, post this stuff there :P
cbf looking back at chat later
Heh, OK :)
2:49 AM
@JourneymanGeek @BenN @bwDraco So. Naming! What should this be called?
maybe with more eeeees
"Deferred retagging"
lol, I like TrickleEdit
2:49 AM
SuperMultiEditCollider? :p
Heh, I like TrickleEdit as well :)
EditSync seems like it focuses too much on ... syncing. Ditto for retagging.
and really the goal here is... trickled edits...
Cause goal #1 was to prevent edit flooding
Indeed, trickling is exactly what we're doing
Heh, any preferences for an OSS licence? (@JourneymanGeek, @BenN, @bwDraco)
2:52 AM
ehh. up to you. I'm doubtful there's any commercial application for this ;p
My biggest OSS repo is CC-BY-4.0, I'm happy with it
MIT, BSD, GPL, Apache, ...
@Bob Apache License version 2.0
@BenN IIRC CC isn't great for code, so... :P
I usually use MIT
I saw that warning, but it seemed to be a perfect match for what I wanted, so I went ahead
2:53 AM
Apache works for me :P
Yep, Apache looks good, as does MIT
> (b) You must cause any modified files to carry prominent notices
stating that You changed the files; and
oof, I don't like that
@Bob the test posts should be ok.
@JourneymanGeek thanks. CM-approved? :P
2:59 AM
@Bob Stack Overflow's code license is MIT. Perhaps we should go with that instead?
@JourneymanGeek Any chance you can edit a quote into the meta-Q/A so I can link to it?
@bwDraco The one thing I do like about Apache 2.0 is the contribution licensing clause :P
(yea, I know this is probably small-ish - but I'd like to make it easy for other people to submit pull-reqs if they want...)
3:05 AM
You might as well use CC0 if this is your intention.
I'd personally prefer Apache 2.0 for new projects. It's permissive enough to allow broad integration with both open-source and proprietary software, while also providing solid protections, including against patent claims.
> patent claims
(well, the latter is only relevant if the software contains patented technology)
.... not sure that's going to be an issue ;p
@JourneymanGeek, @BenN, @JourneymanGeek => github.com/RootAccessOrg/TrickleEdit if you want to add issues
Nice; I'm watching the repo (as Fleex255)
I'm probably about to zzz soon so feel free to ping me if there's anything I can help with tomorrow
Thanks for your enthusiasm about the project :D
3:28 AM
I hope no one has pulled it yet, cause I just rewrote the initial commit
anyone use transparent bridging for their DSL internet connection?
3:43 AM
@KronoS I have at one point with a Westell 6100G.
I have a DSL connection with two DSL lines
the modem is in transparent mode and I have my DD-WRT router connected
I'm trying to make sure I have my connection correct
one side of the DSL's is showing as connected, and I'm only getting half the speeds
no clue what transparent bridging even is...
@allquixotic basically where the modem just passes the traffic through to the router
OH, so where it doesn't act as a layer 3 router, it's just a layer 2 switch
there's a little bit of smarts to it, but it's essentially turning it into a bridge
sure.... I can't remember the layers... been a while since I've dealt with that terminology
3:49 AM
I think what you want to do is have all of the hosts that are connected to both the modem and the router be mutually addressable by MAC address at the Ethernet layer (layer 2), without having to be "routed through" an intermediate IP address hop (layer 3) in their routing table
so instead of -> -> ->, from the IP layer it would be a "direct" -> connection
number of IPv4 hops from source to destination: 1
simply by hitting the MAC address of
(this would be determined by the Address Resolution Protocol)
that's basically what a bridge is; the implied thing being bridged is disparate Ethernet networks
@KronoS I don't think an ethernet bridge between two routers with separate WAN links will (by itself) enable you to double your speeds, though.
if DSL circuit #1 gets 3.5 Mbps and DSL Circuit #2 gets 3.5 Mbps, but have different public IPs, then any singular transaction (be it a TCP socket or a UDP data session) with any given server will take place exclusively on one of the two circuits
Same public IP address
I think it's just a dual bond of the connection
oh... weird... do you know if you're under carrier-grade NAT?
if you're under CGN, then it's still possible that you might have difficulty "bonding" them without a remote server, because your hop from your network edges (your two modems) to the ISP's infrastructure will not retain the session state (e.g. the TCP socket reply port)
if you really want to see if you can get double the speed by using two lines, then try Speedify -- don't join the two modems together at Layer 2; instead, connect up two ethernet cables (or one WiFi and one Ethernet, or two WiFi, or one USB and one Ethernet, etc., however you want to do it) to a single PC, and turn on Speedify
it'll detect you're connected to two WANs, and load balance your data traffic between them, giving you an effective throughput around 85-90% of the combined speed of the two on an ideal, low-latency single download, up to ~50 Mbps
not sure how having the modems have the same public IPs changes that, if at all -- I've never seen two separate WANs with the same public IP before
@allquixotic its the same line going into the modem. It's just dual bonded at their end
so I have two 30 meg connections for a total of 60 megs
it's all done within the DSL modem
I think
so one physical DSL connection to one modem delivering two separate "lines"?
receiving two lines
4:02 AM
maybe two PPP WAN links
gosh it's been a long time since I've thought about PPP.
1 physical, but dual bonded (I think within the wiring itself)
I have dual circuit fiber at home but it's nothing like this - there's one fiber optic cable that connects to the Optical Network Terminal, and the ONT spits out two completely separate Ethernet cables with their own DHCP server, their own account, separate speeds, etc.
so even at the IP layer they're separate, which is how I would expect two DSL lines to be
I wouldn't be able to really tell you how it works
just know that I can see two connections on my modem GUI
and when both are up I'm getting twice the speeds
oh, so you can get twice the speed
4:05 AM
19 mins ago, by KronoS
one side of the DSL's is showing as connected, and I'm only getting half the speeds
meaning I'm getting half of the speed I'm expecting
because one line isn't working correctly for some reason
OK... so you paid for 30+30. But you're only getting 30?
OK, that sounds like a problem that is likely unrelated to transparent bridging, in my opinion
2 mins ago, by KronoS
and when both are up I'm getting twice the speeds
can you recreate that condition by connecting a computer directly to the DSL modem and turning off "transparent bridging" mode?
i.e., can you re-create 60 Mbps speed just by temporarily removing your router from your network setup, and using your modem with the NAT enabled?
the weird thing is that the modem GUI is showing the other connection as down
but I'm not sure if that's a symptom of the bridging for a problem with the connection
4:11 AM
I would start by reversing the change made to the bridging, and make sure the modem is configured to route (you should get an IP from it on your computer via DHCP), then see if you can get 60 Mbps back "at will" simply by making that config change
if you can, then you're in the "Doctor, it hurts when I do X!" "Then don't do that!" situation until you can figure out how to fix your bridging config
1 hour later…
5:14 AM
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Ok deletes
it was auto-converting
which is a pretty dumb 'feature'
A: TrickleEdit: Queuing edits to prevent flooding

BobA list of questions used for testing: TrickleEdit test question

Just wanted to collect them in one place for easier deleting/undeleting
Arn't you glad I talked to a CM first? ;p
5:24 AM
@JourneymanGeek I was tempted to slap a "mod approved" sticker on it :P
but, yea, thanks
that's what the comment is for ;p
@JourneymanGeek comment?
oh, I meant a literal image "sticker" (linking to your answer)
Cause @Bob asked. This is fine. And not in the drinking coffee in a fire sense. At most, drinking good coffee in a nice cool room sense. — Journeyman Geek ♦ 12 secs ago
@JourneymanGeek oh, I meant "what comment" :P
now you have one
5:30 AM
lol, thanks
@JourneymanGeek idk how long this'll take; I've done userscripts (nice and quick) but never full extensions before :P
we won't run out of edits any time soon ;p
@JourneymanGeek which browser are you using now, anyway?
vivaldi - works with chrome extensions or firefox
this'll likely start off as a Firefox WebExtension, plus polyfill for Chrome, and with a bit of luck it should run in Edge
If I'm running this over a period, I'll be running it on FF cause that's what phoebe runs
5:35 AM
@JourneymanGeek downside is you'll have to do your edits on there
at least for now
extension => pretty easy (I think...)
server => quite hard
@Bob that's ok
I could hook up phoebe to a 4k screen. I just run it on the tiny one cause that's all I need for managing the gui stuff on it ;p
(fedora lxqt running qbitorrent. I literally just need the gui for rss feed management)
6:35 AM
hm, 3g 3310 varient straitstimes.com/tech/… ;p
@JourneymanGeek I miss my nokia with the mini joystick :P
(and heh, my jelly's actually not a bad secondary phone)
7:28 AM
can I help at all o_O
an edit bot for like, nuking dead tags?
well, more a bot for letting you trickle edits in slowly
@djsmiley2k sure
especially if you can tell me why this works if I step through the debugger but not if I let it run by itself :D
7:56 AM
hm. @JourneymanGeek @BenN might have to use the se api :\
hmm. @JourneymanGeek, could you create another test question? effectively a copy of this one
I just need one from a different user
Q: TrickleEdit test question 2

Journeyman GeekThis is a test question used while developing an extension. Please do not upvote or downvote this question. This question will be deleted when testing is complete. Don't close it as a dupe either please.

@JourneymanGeek thanks
@Bob lol magic? :P
ok I have no idea what the author param is sent for :D
8:21 AM
@JourneymanGeek how many posts are you thinking of queuing up at a time?
minimum of 5. 30 would be nice ;p
8:35 AM
@JourneymanGeek ah. I'm trying to figure out whether I should copy the web request or use the api :P
I think under 50 is doable
50 would let me do one every half hour with spares :p
8:51 AM
@JourneymanGeek biggest problem with the non-api route is a maybe expiring auth token...
oh well, I'll do more tomorrow
3 hours later…
12:03 PM
@Bob not sure if I mentioned, android pay supports AMEX in the UK now.
@OtherCat using it?
12:19 PM
@Burgi maybe this one is more accurate adzuna.co.uk/jobs/value-my-cv
the average wage on there for the uk is £33k, far more like it
12:51 PM
@Bob failing to.
KFC doesn't accept Amex so doesn't work with android pay when linked to Amex :-(
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