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Ben
12:18 AM
Mornin
 
hey there @Ben
 
12:30 AM
@BESW In 2000 (around the time of the first X Men movie), we visited friends in Toronto. They drove us round and said "That building is the outside of Professor Xavier's school... That (bigger) building is the inside of Professor Xavier's school... That park had the top of the Statue of Liberty in it for a couple of nights..."
 
Ben
1:22 AM
Hey @shalv sorry got sidetracked. How's things?
 
alright, as for you?
 
2:01 AM
Anyone cleverer than me have an easy closed-form expression for the expectation value of [highest 1 of 3d8]?
 
hey there @nitsua60 -- sadly, I don't offhand
 
Just 13 hours left in @DriveThruRPG's Xmas in July sale. The Dresden Files Accelerated is a top seller: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/xmas_in_july.php?affiliate_id=24139
 
@Shalvenay hiya. No worries. I should be able to construct it, but combinatorics isn't really a strength of mine.
 
@nitsua60 nor mine, sadly. how're things going otherwise?
 
I certainly would never trust a result I came up with =)
@Shalvenay Okay--worked three long days last week (incl. Saturday) so took a half-day today.
You?
 
2:03 AM
@nitsua60 ah. alright here, save for having a LaTeX problem on my hands (again) :P
 
@Shalvenay I'm pretty sure that's their motto =D
 
sadly, TeX.SE wasn't quite able to come through on my last one either -- tried the one answer that turned up, and it sadly didn't work
 
I'm pretty sure TeX.SE is how I even discovered SE.
What're you struggling with?
 
this time around, though, I have a 17x11 (landscape ANSI B) drawing in PDF that I am incorporating into my document, and I want a page number on it
thing is, that drawing extends beyond the margins LaTeX is using for the page
so if I try to have LaTeX put a number on the page, it winds up in an awkward spot :P
 
17x11 drawing is going onto a 17x11 page, or is scaled to a different size?
 
2:09 AM
@nitsua60 it's included using pdfpages so I think the page winds up 17x11
 
gotcha. Folding in the .pdf wholesale.
 
@nitsua60 exactly
 
@Shalvenay 6.46875, it turns out
 
In about an hour (8 Pacific) we continue Shadow Rift, a FATE Film at http://twitch.tv/GameratiTV Join us! #twitch… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/892202583149789184
 
@nitsua60 interesting.
 
Ben
2:19 AM
@nitsua60 how do you mean "closed form expression"?
 
In the old 2e Skills & Powers (which I'm just taking my first look at, since it came along after I left 2e) you're allowed to purchase additional HD for your roll at level-up, of which you take the highest result. I'm digging into the diminishing return that gives you.
@Ben So, in this case it worked out to (3j^2-3j+1)/8^3 for the probability of each result j. (And, of course, sumproduct on results blah blah blah to get to an expectation value.)
<[highest 1 of 3dD]> = {sum_r=1^D {3r^3-3r^2+r}}/D^3 ends up being what I was thinking of when I said "closed-form expression."
 
Hrmm. To what extent is the decimal precision useful, and to what extent misleading/inaccurate?
You're never gonna roll 6.5, after all.
 
2:36 AM
Well, it's certainly not inaccurate--it's an exact figure. It's also not terribly useful, I'll admit.
 
@nitsua60 I think I flicked through that one. It was towards the end of my 2e playing, and none of us bought in to it. Pretty sure it's on my AD&D Rules CDROM (and/or Expansion), though.
 
@BESW [citation needed]
 
Ben
@nitsua60 ah. Math.
@BESW 6.5 sided die
 
It's when SSD's having a rough day =)
 
Ben
@nitsua60 I know who you're talking about, but it took me a second. I was thinking "what's Solid State tech got to do with it?"
It was at this point, Ben knew: he was a nerd.
 
2:42 AM
@Ben Wait: hanging out in an RPG chat room didn't cement that already?
(Note to ROs: let's add to the room's tags.)
 
Ben
@nitsua60 hmm... I'd argue that there's a difference, but I don't really want to drift into geek territory
 
2:58 AM
Geake is a lumpy space rock from the 1980s, and Nerds are a lumpy candy rock from the 1980s.
It's understandably easy to get them confused.
 
Ben
Speaking of... I feel like I want to write a script/query to run through my DB and decrypt everything, just to make management easier. (I.e. run a ROT13/5 over the whole thing)
 
3:15 AM
@Ben Sorry, your db is encrypted with ROT13?
 
Ben
@Miniman yes. Simple encryption just as an extra level. While yes, that might seem like a very simple security measure, the idea that it's simply to stop someone entering the do and changing data there - this is for a middleware program we're developing
 
no, ROT2, right? (I'm assuming 13/5 is integer division, here.)
 
3:46 AM
Just upgrade to rot26
 
^^ Literally 10x better.
 
speaking of 10x better, good answer today
@Miniman I was surprised to see I only got +2 on mine, until I saw your much better answer posted within 30 seconds of mine
 
Thanks! I saw yours come up as I was still typing - you were ahead of me by a solid 2 minutes I think.
 
I did a quick edit to mine (page number), and I probably mixed up the timestamps
 
Ben
4:31 AM
@JoelHarmon ...is that a joke?
@nitsua60 rot13/5 changes the letter in an alphabet by 13 places, and an integer from 0 to 9 by 5 places. So all you need to do to "decrypt" it is put it through the exact same cycle
 
@Ben definitely =)
@Ben Gotcha--got the ROT13 part, but haven't actually used it since grade school, so wasn't familiar with the 13/5 notation.
 
Ben
Ah. It was one of those situations where the sarcasm didn't translate for me haha
 
Ben
5:05 AM
I have a thought about this question: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/104516/…
RAI: As an illusion, you only appear to be that size and shape. You would still physically occupy the same space.
RAW: Since it states that you feel like the illusion, I'd say that would mean you do occupy that space. For example, if you turned into an ant, and some one attempted to crush you beneath their foot, if you didn't occupy that physical space, they'd step on your foot, which is definitely physically larger than an ant - which definitely wouldn't feel right.
(RAI clarification: Still occupy the same space as your actual physical form, rather than the illusion's)
However that's only my interpretation, and the OP is asking for actual material stating this, so I don't think my answer would really be appropriate without any source material
 
 
3 hours later…
8:30 AM
@Miniman Indeed, if an answer gets multiple bounties, they are summed. For example, bounties that I made on @nitsua60 's answer are displayed together with 2 others as +2000.
 
@Miniman yes XD
 
That is not a single +2000 bounty, however
@nitsua60 What did you ask?
:D
 
 
1 hour later…
9:47 AM
YAY RPGaDAY!
 
10:31 AM
Hello, my question about flanking doesn't contain the word "flanking", because I didn't know the English term (which also is a reason why I couldn't find the answer to the question by myself). So I'm left wondering if I should edit the question (including the title) to make it clearer about flanking or if I should left it to keep expressing the struggle I had. What's better?
 
Hmm. That's an interesting edge case.
I'd be inclined to add the tag and leave the rest of the question alone, but I'm really not confident and would like to hear others' opinions.
 
nwp
You could add it, but I wouldn't remove the original wording because others who also don't know the word flanking are likely to search with similar wording as you and then get to find it.
 
It might even be worth a Role-playing Games Meta question.
 
Okay, I can leave it as is, but I'll definitely add the tag. Thanks!
 
Thanks for asking!
 
11:09 AM
@Ben Yes, when the ciphertext equals the plain text, it's a joke.
in English, anyway. In other languages, it may not translate well.
@OlivierGrégoire For what it's worth, I agree with nwp's logic here. You're neither the first nor the last person to deal with an oddly translated RPG, and around here we like to keep around multiple wordings of the same thing in case it helps.
 
@JoelHarmon depends... english has some special characters too. the AE ligature for example. however, these special characters are often not inside the "standard" block of letters and are treated as their parts or closest standard latin character (or have a special substitution). the AE ligature or Ä? A and E one after another. ß? SZ.
@JoelHarmon I think we have at least 3 wordings for... "how to deal with problem player of behavior X"
 
11:27 AM
@Trish Sure; we also have accents and a few other things stolen borrowed from other languages. The main thing I was going for here was a mathy pun on "translate".
 
12:24 PM
-16
Q: Do warlocks regain all their spell slots on a short rest?

Andrew FranklinI keep seeing all over the internet that warlocks get all their warlock spell slots back on a short rest. However, none of the page references seem to point to the correct spot. Do you know if this is true or not and what page it can be found on?

Wow, the site really does pile down on RTFPHB questions when it's about DnD...
 
@kviiri RTFB!!!!
but not the sections of lucky/halfing luck. Those are okay to miss :P
 
nwp
Or all the different pages on what requires concentration.
I had my first 1-shot on roll20 yesterday. It was pretty cool.
 
@nwp nice! Storytime!
<sits down in what kids today call criss-cross applesauce>
 
Granted, it's exceptionally poor research effort when a question concerning warlock's spell slots didn't check warlock's class pages' section on spell slots...
 
@OlivierGrégoire My table does flanking and it's great - but just be warned that a LOT of 5e abilities run off of having advantage. If you make it easier to gain advantage (with the variant flanking rule), those will trigger more often.
 
12:35 PM
@NautArch what triggers from advantage besides sneak attack?
which will trigger from flanking anyway btw
 
@Szega maybe triggers is the wrong word, hmm.
Let me do a little bit of research on that, but it definitely makes things easier. Like GWM.
 
it is more that many features grant advantage as a reward, so their weight will lessen if it is easier to obtain
2
 
@Szega That is a much better way of saying it.
 
I would also think of limiting movement inside the reach of someone if I introduced flanking
 
@Baskakov_Dmitriy I was figuring (algebraically) the expectation value of a "roll 3d8, take the highest" roll.
 
12:41 PM
@Szega Yeah, my table does a lot of repositioning to get flanking once in reach.
 
otherwise all the participants of the battle will form a conga line...
 
@Szega that usually doesn't happen unless both your party and the monsters are all melee combatants.
 
I personally don't like flanking for advantage that much, it's too easy to trigger and detracts from the aesthetic quality of combat in my opinion :)
 
@NautArch well, yeah, but even a 2+3 long line looks ridiculous
 
@Szega For what it's worth - it hasn't happened in our group. And we've got 2-3 player melee characters and have fought other melee monsters.
 
12:44 PM
I think using facing would be better. Side-hits do not give Adv, but backstab does.
 
generally the terrain and the needs of the battle dictate positioning more than optimal choices.
 
nwp
@NautArch Adventurer's Guild sent us to get rid of a bear. The villagers wanted to get rid of some hunters with traps. Some halflings were lost and a druid child. We basically avoided all the fights and the plan for my warlock to move hex around and gain temporary hitpoints didn't even trigger once.
 
@NautArch It is not an iron rule. But our party crystallised into a line near immediately upon hearing we are using the flanking rules :)
@nwp Sounds like you just had to set the forest on fire, since everyone inside was on somebody's wanted list :)
 
@Szega haha. The vast majority of our fights don't involve us having time to set up. And our Barbarian basically leroy jenkins' it a lot. Which is fine with his 25 AC.
 
@NautArch is it 5e? if yes, wow 25 is a lot. What level?
 
12:47 PM
25 AC is huge, especially for a barbarian because they also have a ton of damage shaving.
 
nwp
@Szega We wanted to play, not screw with the DM. Although I did consider making a wild magic sorcerer and hope for a fireball.
 
@Szega Yeah, 5e. Barbarian is 12th level I think now (possibly just 11.) Rolled good stats, got a Tome of Bodily Health and a +3 shield (random treasure roll)
@nwp I am so disappointed in the wild magic system. The 1/20 chance of it triggering simply isn't high enough.
 
@NautArch the threshold should be =spell lvl, not flat 1
@nwp I am still waiting the for the true tale of the shortest lived character (or party) where the wild mage explodes on the very first spell and is reduced to ash :)
 
@Szega that's a great houserule! I'm going to suggest it...
 
nwp
Although wild magic surge has other issues. "A wild modron/1d6 flumphs appear" is really bad for a new DM to deal with.
 
12:56 PM
@NautArch It happens more often if the player makes liberal use of Tides of Chaos, and the GM wants a Wild Magic Surge to occur.
 
@nwp yeah, you gotta read up on those
 
@nwp Things like this feel more like they're designed for a computer game than a tabletop RPG that has to be actually GM'd :)
 
@T.J.L. we generally like it to occur. It's fine. Our DM is experienced so that really isn't as much of an issue. In a fight against an Adult Green Dragon, it went off and unicorn appeared.
in the middle of a lake.
 
@NautArch If so, then the Sorcerer should use Tides as soon as he gets it back, and the DM can trigger a roll on the Surge table on the very next casting.
 
@T.J.L. that's a good point - but still the 1/20 is a really small chance for such a fun mechanic.
 
1:01 PM
@NautArch The 1/20 is only for while Tides is unused. Use Tides, and it goes straight to the table (at the DM's choice), and Tides comes back.
 
> Wild Magic. When using magic, you get a boost when you don't roll any pluses; the GM gets a boost when you don't roll any minuses; and something about the scene changes dramatically when you don't roll any blanks.
 
@T.J.L. well golly gee. I did not notice that.
 
nwp
@BESW That sounds like Fate.
 
Yup.
 
nwp
I watched some of the buffy fate thing linked a while back. Somehow I cannot get into fate. I think it is too open for me.
Maybe it would get better if I actually read and understood the rules.
 
1:06 PM
@NautArch The GM has a lot of control over it, but only if the player gives up that control by using Tides of Chaos.
 
Fate core rules in comic form by @Upto4Players! 🎉 http://www.uptofourplayers.com/fate-core-rules/ https://t.co/CHRDmt1oYN
2
TableTop's demonstration of Fate is also quite helpful.
 
In effect, the character has the option of embracing chaos to his advantage (to use exactly the right word), with the knowledge that it may bite back.
 
nwp
I've heard people complain that it is not interesting after the 5th time you've been a potted plant. It's just annoying to have to roll all the time for something that 95% of the time does nothing and 5% of the time basically also does nothing.
 
Morning friends!
 
Hi!
@nwp I can relate to this sentiment.
 
1:13 PM
@nwp my table feels otherwise about rolling :) The more dice we roll, the happier we are.
@B.S.Morganstein howdy!
 
I had a general question on how to form this question to be SE appropriate: I'm curious which classes peak early (that is to say, get their "best" class-specific abilities earlier), and which classes peak later. My problem is that I don't know how to get this out of the realm of opinion
 
@BESW Lovely little comic.
I linked it to my RPG table, let's see if they like it :P
 
@B.S.Morganstein and depends on what "peak" is based on.
 
If you provide a specific criteria for "peak" it would be answerable
 
Yeah, thats the problem, I'm having issues narrowing down exactly what peak means
 
1:16 PM
@B.S.Morganstein My hunch is you're talking about damage output?
@B.S.Morganstein but maybe it's access to class abilities?
 
Well, first thing first, do you mean only class features? Or does spell access count? Because, if you ask me, since a wish can literally do anything, any class that gets it peaks at whatever level they get 9th level spells
 
@NautArch Damage output is definitely part of it, though I was ideally hoping to get a broader range of answers considering that some classes don't emphasize damage output (eg Lore Bard)
@NautArch @Adam Yeah class features is definitely closer to what I have in mind
 
One could reasonably narrow it down to just "combat", for example, but even that is a vast field. A barbarian will probably do less damage in a single encounter than a sorcerer, but more during ten back-to-back encounters. And absorb more enemy hits while at it.
 
But technically every class gains access to class features at level 3, right?
 
nwp
You could use a commoner as the base line and check how much more damage and survivability each class at each level has and then display that in a graph. But it is really difficult to factor in how much of a bump a spell slot gives.
 
1:18 PM
@B.S.Morganstein Or earlier. Clerics even choose their subclass in 5e at level 1.
 
@nwp but then how do you judge 'survivability'. Glass cannons vs tanks.
 
@nwp That would be superb, but not sure if its realistic to ask the stack to graph each class for me at each level as compared to a commoner of a similar level
To give more perspective of what I had in mind: after playing a totem Barbarian, I found that he peaked fairly early on, upon gaining resistance to all damage types except psychic. While he did get better as the class progressed (more rages, crit dice, etc), most of the class remained built around his tanking abilities
 
nwp
@NautArch Make a graph for damage and another for survivability? And another for burst and another for sustained damage/survivability. It would be a massive project.
 
So I would have classified this character as having peaked early
@nwp I agree, it would be massive
This question is also coming from a place of ignorance when it comes to comparing the base classes in 5e, since my knowledge is generally from what I've seen playing, and the PHB, but there are not many resources comparing different classes along similar metrics
 
@B.S.Morganstein It seems to me it is less about "peaking" and more about iconic features, no?
 
1:22 PM
Hence why I started with "peaking" as a point of comparison
@Szega Iconic features is also getting closer to what I have in mind
Like the moment when the class really comes into its own
(I apologize, I know I'm still sounding vague)
 
No need to apologize, really. What you're discussing is a complex topic to formalize and it's not your fault it's hard, it's inherently so.
 
@B.S.Morganstein It's still general, but maybe the question is when a single class comes "online". e.g. gets most of their standard go-to good stuff. But even that is hard to judge. Is a paladin online when they get smites? Is it when Auras get activated? Is it when the improved divine smite comes online?
 
@B.S.Morganstein I would think that most subclasses get those abilities early. dependin on class lv1 to 3. Few defining features come after that
 
@B.S.Morganstein In that case, I would argue it's whenever the class chooses its sub-type. That's when all of the iconic "This is what I'm going to be about" abilities start showing up
 
@kviiri Appreciate it. To give another example, arguably a Rogue would "peak" when getting access to sneak attack, since as far as I can tell the rogue builds I've encountered often focus on maximizing opportunities for sneak attack and maximizing its damage
 
1:24 PM
@kviiri There are a number of free setting/adventure workups, called Worlds of Adventure for Fate, available from Evil Hat. My group really likes the He-Man/Thundercats homage "Masters of Umdaar."
 
@B.S.Morganstein so rogue peaks at level 1 :p poor Rogues
 
@NautArch Coming online is exactly what I mean
@Adam lol exactly, hence my problem in defining what it is I'm looking for
 
@BESW Yeah, I've been peeking through them from time to time. I'm particularly interested in Venture City because I've never played superheroes, and the one where everyone's a god whose name escapes me :P
 
there is another "wave" around lv14-16: dragon wing for sorcerers, big game-changers for warlocks and the like
 
@Szega yeah, and this is where @nwp's suggestion of graphing it out I think makes a lot of sense, but I worry is too demanding for this site
 
1:25 PM
@B.S.Morganstein To complicate this further, all "main spellcasters" get a major power surge whenever they unlock new spell levels.
 
I've also had success with the third-party adventure/campaign/setting Aeon Wave, which is a kind of cyberpunk espionage/murder mystery.
 
@kviiri Indeed they do, thanks for the complication :P
 
Especially level 3, they go from three L1 slots to four L1 and two L2 slots. That's a huge improvement.
 
@kviiri It's such a big surge, that it's often the only thing besides hit points that they get that level
 
@B.S.Morganstein I do not think it can be put on a graph, you can't really quantify these. It is more of a list
 
1:26 PM
@BESW I thought you performed the murders and made sure it was a mystery. 🤔
I must've misread the synopsis.
 
@Adam Well L3 is one of the biggest relative surges in my opinion and it also unlocks subclass features for Bard at least :)
 
@doppelgreener That's definitely how Trogdor played it in the solo session.
 
@BESW that must be why. :D
 
@Szega I'm really open to any answer format. The goal of the question is to get some general comparisons between the classes of when, as @NautArch stated, they "come online" and gain their main abilities
 
@kviiri But other classes, like Wizard or Cleric, don't really get anything at that point. For both of them, all they get are access to new spells
 
1:28 PM
The campaign proper opens with someone's memory copy asking you to find out why their original "committed suicide" off the top of the tower where they had a top-secret tech job.
 
@Adam This is exactly the type of debate I'm hoping the question would spawn
 
@Adam Oh, it does seem so indeed.
 
nwp
@B.S.Morganstein except SE really hates debates
 
(It's not unlike Who Censored Roger Rabbit that way.)
 
morning @B.S.Morganstein
 
1:29 PM
Granted, access to the next level of spells is very powerful, especially for flexible casters that can prepare new spells every day. I think that's why bards and sorcerers get other features, their known spells are pretty much locked in
 
@B.S.Morganstein We already mentioned 'debate', 'opinion based' and 'list'... seems like the job for a discussion forum
 
By the way, a question so insignificant I won't bother answering it on the main site, inspired by this: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/104483/…
 
@Szega or here in chat? :D
 
@NautArch It will get really choatic if we start listing all the classes.
 
Is the adventuring day exp table on 5e DMG page 84 wrong?
 
1:31 PM
But I'm not against it theoretically
@kviiri in what way?
 
The table is clearly labeled "Adjusted XP per Day per Character", but the accompanying text refers the table as XP earned.
 
@Szega we could create a new room for this little panel discussion...
 
XD
 
Also, the text says the table can be used for encounter difficulty calculations, which further muddies the issue of whether it's supposed to be adjusted or earned XP.
 
@nwp I'm aware
Morning @BanjoFox
 
1:32 PM
@Szega people interested can each take a class and state when they think it comes "online", then everyone looks at a different class and does it again.
 
@Szega Entirely possible, though I was hoping to find some more objective way of asking this question
 
@kviiri Yeah, I wondered about that too. I mostly use encounter difficulties on their own to put together days
 
nwp
You could try to simplify it. Each point of HP gives 1 point, damage reduction makes it count double, AC is turned into some factor, each point of average damage over 10 rounds gives a point, healing gives a point and so on. Except the results are mostly defined by how many points everything is worth, so it is not actually helpful.
 
@kviiri The rule books are all full of text that would seem at first glance to be perfectly clear, yet people still come here to ask questions.
 
@NautArch That would be great. Again, I'm looking for a way to compare classes temporally (eg how long it takes a rogue to come online vs a bard vs a sorcerer). This would be useful to help people choose their classes, as well as helping people optimize multiclassing
 
1:34 PM
@nwp But it is not primarily about power level, more the "feel" of the class
 
(Context for those who don't GM 5e: the DMG has guidelines on encounter building, basing the difficulty of the encounter on the total experience value of the monsters. For difficulty calculations only, the XP is given a multiplier because fighting five monsters at once is harder than fighting them one at a time. The table is unclear about which of these two it actually refers to - earned XP or the adjusted XP used in difficulty math)
 
Or if anyone has suggestions on how to make this a more objective question I'm all ears
 
nwp
@Szega I have no idea how to turn the feel of a class into points in order to compare classes.
 
@Adam The DMG feels like it's less polished anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more such mistakes there.
 
1:36 PM
@B.S.Morganstein We could judge features by the number of times they come up in an average day... but that is quite convoluted to calculate
 
lol @NautArch
 
@NautArch "I'm all ears!"
 
maybe define "levels" like: "once a week" / "once a day" / "3+ times a day" / "even more"
 
An average day is very dependent on the group playing.
 
@Szega We could, though I'm not sure if that would be the best way of finding the "peak" of each class. For example, raging as a Barbarian is fairly limited to start, and eventually becomes unlimited at higher levels. But I still think the defining moment of a totem barbarian would be after taking the bear totem and gaining resistance to all damage except psychic
 
1:38 PM
Our group doesn't seem to like the traditional tunnels, traps and trolls -style dungeon hack that much, for instance.
 
@B.S.Morganstein raging is counted every time it affects the damage you take or deal, not when you enter it
 
@Szega Ahh I see
 
@kviiri same here. I don't think we've ever even done a session like that.
in my 2.5 years or so of playing with this group
 
@NautArch We gotta define an arbitrary "exemplar group". And this being DnD, their day should involve 50%+ dungeon crawling
 
@Szega i don't wanna go in the dungeon!
 
1:41 PM
@NautArch that is my secret: everything is a dungeon (ok, it is not mine, but Angry's originally)
 
@Szega What do you mean, "counted"?
 
@godskook I proposed counting how many times a feature comes up
 
To gauge a feature's impact on the game.
 
to quantify "usage"/"effect on play"
 
nwp
@BESW It still feels more like "Let's make up a story (be creative)" and less like "Let's play a game (with rules)". But I can see how that would be considered the same thing or even the interesting part by some.
 
1:45 PM
Usage-rates are not great values, alone. A trivially weak ability, like (+1 HP and +1 damage) would come up LITERALLY all the time, but is obviously weak compared to having 1 9th level slot.
 
@nwp There's rules and there's rules :)
And not all rules are crunchy!
 
@godskook there are not many features that are this lackluster
are there any?
we wanna judge existing features, not all possible ones
 
nwp
If a rogue has a melee buddy they get to sneak attack all the time, otherwise basically never. It's super hard to factor that in.
 
@nwp they can still hide. so we eyeball it at 60% of all attacks
 
@nwp Apocalypse World (which is not Fate, but has a similar-ish design philosophy) for example has more comprehensive rules than DnD 5e does for pretty much all situations that don't involve combat. They're different kinds of rules, for sure, and don't probably even feel like rules for someone used to DnD.
 
1:50 PM
@Szega arguably, every time a strength based character uses an ASI on their strength, they are primarily just getting +1 to hit and damage. Most of the other stuff that strength helps with isn't used much. At least in my experience
Though, a +5% chance to hit isn't trivial compared to just +1 hp.
 
DnD 5e is practically GM-led free-form outside the crunchiest parts. But this is a litany I find myself repeating a bit too often these days so I guess it's better I don't start it again :P
 
I feel like I've unintentionally opened a whole can of worms
 
@Adam I am trying to be as vague as possible on purpose
 
@B.S.Morganstein and we hate love you for it. We love worms.
My bard is about to hit level 12 and I'm debating on Inspiring Leader vs A Dex ASI to get my AC to 18.
 
@Szega Oh I know, I'm just pointing out the use of a feature which is a small passive boost that, while not necessarily trivial, is pretty small and is used for every single attack from then on.
 
1:53 PM
@NautArch Are you a selfish group or a cooperative group?
 
@Szega My point was to demonstrate that "feature power" and "frequency" can variate independently, and thus, you can't solely quantify things on that dimension and expect useful results.
 
@godskook we can make another axis, but that will multiply the number of categories
 
@B.S.Morganstein little bit of column A, little bit of column B
 
@NautArch What's your current AC? 17?
 
lets use only 3 levels: "minor boost" / "major boost" / "qualitative boost"
 
1:54 PM
I think I'll probably take the feat. +1 AC doesn't really help me that much. I don't plan on getting hit to need it - and if I do get hit, 17 vs 18 isn't much of a difference.
 
@NautArch and temporary hitpoints are nice
 
nwp
Especially when you can give them to a whole army.
 
When in total danger, I can activate my insect swarm and blind everyone around me and run away. And giving 19 temp HP/SR to me and my party is pretty sweet when the only healers are me, a mystic and I think our warlock.
 
@NautArch which edition are you playing?
 
@Szega 5e
 
nwp
1:56 PM
@NautArch I haven't found any healing for 5e warlocks yet, not counting the temporary hitpoints from kills.
 
@NautArch then how is a warlock your healer? some weird UA subclass?
 
@B.S.Morganstein there also isn't really another feat that grabs my interest. And we've opened up unearthed arcana feats as well as homebrew
@Szega not sure...maybe it wasn't him. COuld be another character that has access to some limited healing. But really my bard is the primary healer in the group now.
 
@NautArch What weapon do you use, and do you already have any feats? Also how is playing bard, I was thinking of starting a bard in my new campaign (starts at level 3)
 
@B.S.Morganstein No weapons. Just Eldritch Blast (warlock 2 dip). I've got Lucky and a tweak of one of the feats on that homebrew list that lets me force disadvantage on the first check/save for an illusion 1/SR.
I never stop playing my Lyre, so using a weapon isn't really an option.
 

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