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12:28 AM
@nitsua60 That's one of our frequent rewatches
(btw, hi all I'm back from being busy and/or sick... my 3rd bout of cold/flu symptoms was apparently Influenza A, though by the time I found this out, I was mostly better)
 
@Adeptus Yikes, glad you're okay.
 
Thanks. I think I was less sick with this than with the rhinovirus a couple of weeks before
 
1:00 AM
Heh, just ran into a quotation of one of my answers here out in the wild (reddit) for the first time. (Sadly, not a citation :-P)
 
1:42 AM
Oh? Links?
 
@CTWind what did they have to say about it?
 
Hmm... @Miniman and @Adeptus here. I wonder which of you isn't actually just Australian?
 
It's not that the politicians aren't Australian, it's that they aren't just Australian.
 
True. A subtlety that was lost on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me but which is captured by the CNN article.
 
@Shalvenay Nothing, just the direct text with no commentary.
 
2:02 AM
@CTWind Pretty clearly a violation of the CC BY-SA 3.0 license that they accessed your work under. Message to mods?
 
Eh, I'm not too bothered by a random reddit post failing to properly cite (though possibly I should on principle anyways).
 
@nitsua60 Though, there is some grounds for argument that the one who left for having NZ citizenship, shouldn't have had to... since NZ is listed in the Constitution as a state of Australia...
 
@Adeptus How's New Zealand feel about that?
 
@nitsua60 ...How do the Māori feel about it?
I know Waitangi Day is a rather... divisive topic.
 
2:18 AM
@BESW I know I feel humbled by your fluency with diacritics in chat =)
 
Don't know. At the time it was written, they were considering being part of Federation, but rejected it. So really, the Constitution should have been amended back then, but for whatever reason it wasn't. These days, many of their original reasons for not being part of Australia no longer apply, but of course now there's a couple centuries of national identity...
 
@Adeptus It's also got that strange construction of "The Commonwealth will be such parts of [list of places incl. NZ] as are part of the Commonwealth."
 
@nitsua60 Actually, although I've memorized shortcuts for most common Pasifika macrons, the ā isn't easily available on a Mac keyboard so I just copy-paste that one.
 
@BESW I don't know about Waitangi Day, but I know Australia Day is divisive. Mostly because it's held on the anniversary of European settlement. Some indigenous people now call it "Invasion Day" or "Survival Day". So, there is some pressure to change the date, but also resistance because "it's always been on this date"
There are some serious suggestions for an alternate date, but I like this one
 
2:43 AM
@nitsua60 If I were ever to get a job involving extensive use of te reo Māori, I'd add Māori to my computer's default languages and then I'd get a keyboard shortcut mapped for it. But as is, my English default works for most of the languages I commonly use in my work.
(I have to do that for Ōlelo Hawaiʻi, too; the ʻokina isn't easy to find a shortcut for.)
 
There's another Bones Kickstarter starting on August 1...
2
 
3:03 AM
@nitsua60 Heh, I heard about that one a while back
The real question is going to be how much money he has to pay back.
They'll probably get off scot-free (pun intended).
 
@Miniman [groan]
Just for that, you get this sidewalk sign:
 
 
1 hour later…
4:39 AM
Hey, anyone up for offering thoughts on how to ask a question?
 
@fectin Sure!
I can't guarantee my thoughts will be useful, of course.
 
Cool!
So I want to ask about ways to boost caster level.
I mostly care about spells and items and such.
 
D&D 3.5, or Pathfinder?
 
Is it better to ask about that directly, or leave it open to class features too?
3.0
The former asks for what I want, the latter seems more likely to get generally useful answers
 
The former, for sure.
The more criteria you can provide, the less likely your question will get closed as too broad. You also get answers that are more useful to you.
 
4:47 AM
Cool, thanks. I started there, but was second-guessing it.
 
It's not the exact same thing, but this meta talks about this sort of thing a bit.
In general, more specific questions are better questions, and their answers are more useful to the person who asked them.
@fectin I'd even recommend going more specific - if you know what class/race/level you're going to be, it'll prevent answers suggesting stuff you can't actually use for some reason.
"Oh, there's an item that converts Turn Undead uses into caster level boosts? Well that would be great if I was a Cleric and not a Wizard..."
 
This game has had a bit of a character treadmill going, so it's also partly for future reference.
 
Yep, totally understand.
@Adeptus Rather than continuing to argue in comments, can I talk about Mage Slayer with you here?
 
5:08 AM
Sure
 
So, fundamentally, Mage Slayer is a reaction that you take "when a creature casts a spell".
That already suggests that it happens after the spell is cast, since, if the creature is still in the middle of casting, then it hasn't cast a spell yet.
Then, as well, there's the reaction rules that say that reactions happen after their triggers unless otherwise specified.
Counterspell, on the other hand, is a reaction you take "when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell".
Present tense, casting. Then, too, the next thing it says is "You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell." I'd argue that that counts as the "otherwise specified" that the reaction rules mention.
And, in your comment, you mentioned that the difference was probably unintentional, but in the tweet I linked Crawford specifically said that the Mage Slayer attack happens after the spell.
Comments/objections/vehement disparagement of me on a personal level?
 
hmm...
 
@Adeptus If you're trying to come up with something good in the third category, I'd recommend going after lifestyle rather than appearance, it's a far more sensitive area :)
 
@Adeptus [physically recoils as if slapped] I give up, you win.
 
5:23 AM
Looking at the "ready" triggers, they can be momentary things - one example given is "when the cultist steps on the trapdoor" - probably interrupting their movement. I'm looking at reactions with that same logic - when [perceivable event], [do thing]
 
Yeah, I'd definitely argue that Counterspell is the weird one here, rather than Mage Slayer.
 
Possibly that's a difference between readied actions and other reactions
 
(And it sort of goes without saying that Mage Slayer should go while they're in the process of casting, and should probably at least force a concentration check to cast the spell)
But that's a very different discussion.
 
(when I say "perceivable event", I mean any momentary event not a discrete action - ie, "step on trapdoor" not "finish moving"; "start casting" not "finish casting")
 
Ah, right.
 
5:28 AM
So with a readied attack, you should be able to hit a mage mid-cast, an archer mid-draw, etc, if that was your specified trigger. (But looking at reaction vs ready, there may be some distinction)
 
That's a really interesting point, thinking about it.
 
and re Crawford's tweet, I wonder if he'd rule differently for a slower (non Bonus Action) spell
 
Readied actions are supposed to use "perceivable events" - in other words, they have to be in-character things. But all the reactions have mechanical, game-system triggers.
 
I can see arguments for both ways... and looks like most of the internet think it happens after the spell...
 
6:12 AM
@nitsua60 well that is a weird thing that I didn't know before
 
@trogdor You're not the only one - this is catching most of our politicians unawares, hence the resignations.
 
wow
that is a strange thing not to advertise to people running for positions in the government
 
As some politicians with reason to discredit others have pointed out, every politician ticked a box on a form that said they had no allegiance to another nation.
Whether every politician took the time to read said form I leave to your imagination.
 
ok well that makes it slightly less bad
if you are running for office and signing stuff the whole way through the entry process without reading it,........ I think I can safely assign some of the blame for when it blows up in your face to your decision,.... not to read it
 
If you read the article, it's like--one politician's mother got him dual citizenship when he was 25 and never told him.
[face/palm]
 
6:17 AM
well I did read that part
 
@trogdor Unfortunately, it's highly unlikely that the, frankly, ludicrous salary, and even more ludicrous expenses, our politicians receive will be returned, despite them now legally owing it.
 
There are some things I guess you figure you don't have to double-check because you'd kind of have to know.
 
that isn't his fault, but if this has happened to multiple people, I gotta assume they don't all have moms who just sign them up for dual citizenship randomly without mentioning it
 
@trogdor Yeah, the one who sparked this knew he had dual-citizenship, and just wasn't aware of the clause.
 
@Miniman I think I feel your pain honestly, one of our political scandals happens to be people voting to increase their own pay
that being said, most of them at least got voted out of office,... but not all
 
6:22 AM
@trogdor Sadly, their salaries and expense accounts aren't even the costliest part of it. The pension that they get having been a politician, regardless of how long, adds up to far more money in the long run.
 
@Miniman "In July 2017, Greens Senator Scott Ludlam resigned after discovering he still retained New Zealand citizenship from his birth in New Zealand. Ludlam had settled in Australia with his family aged eight, and had previously assumed he lost his New Zealand citizenship when he naturalised as an Australian citizen in his mid-teens." - source
 
@Adeptus Ah, that's my bad.
 
@Miniman well, that is ridiculous
you would think for resigning, or being impeached, especially due to,... breaking a law however slightly strange that law is, would get you a reduction in that
I mean, I get it if Australia doesn't want people in office to have ties to other countries, but I don't know if dual citizenship is the thing they should hang that kind of thing on?
 
@trogdor Ah, sorry, I didn't mean to connect that with the above - with their position not legally valid, as far as I know, the politicians resigning because of the clause won't receive any benefits going forward.
 
6:33 AM
America might have a similar thing going, though it might very well depend on which other country
like, I can't imagine dual citizenship with Canada could reasonably scare anyone in their right mind (except maybe the Canadians :P)
@Miniman ah ok, still not great but not as bad as I was thinking due to that misunderstanding
 
@trogdor Even there, someone holding political office while also owing allegiance to another country can be... problematic. Security clearance is a nightmare, and being involved in policy decisions can lead to issues of conflicting loyalties.
 
that is fair
I wasn't trying to say it was a complete non-issue
just that it seems odd that a mixup over something like this apparently couldn't be worked out at all
 
And it's simple enough to say "Well, Canada's ok" or "you've got dual-citizenship, but only because you were born there and you've never gone back, so that's fine", but where do you draw the line?
 
to be fair though, I have not researched the things I need to avoid in order to run for a political office,... I don't ever want a job like that
@Miniman I get that too, drawing the line properly is hard in a lot of situations
 
It's often better to be definite than realistic, if you see what I mean.
 
6:41 AM
but drawing it at "well you were born there and never went back" doesn't seem right to me at all
@Miniman yeah, I struggle with that kind of thinking sometimes
like speed limits, not that I think they are wrong everywhere here, but I seriously suspect some of them were decided in the 60's or something and then never reviewed
 
The US attitude toward dual citizenship is especially weird, as it doesn't officially endorse it but mostly allows it.
 
some of them could do to be a little higher or lower than they are, depending on area
 
@trogdor I know that you need to be born in the USA to be elected President of the USA.
 
but don't ask me to decide exactly which ones actually need to be changed or how XD
 
@trogdor Yeah, preaching to the choir here :) One of our most important and busy roads here was limited to 40 instead of 90 for a full week after all roadwork had been completed.
 
6:44 AM
@Adeptus that, I assume at least, is not literally every office though
 
It's like...seriously, guys. The ripple effect from this is literally slowing traffic down all over the city.
 
@trogdor Definitely not for state Governor... since Schwarzenegger was elected
 
@Miniman it isn't quite as bad as that here, we are a small place, but it is definitely still an annoyance at best
@Adeptus yeah there you go, President is technically the single most sensitive position anyway
not that I feel that way about it right now,.... but I won't get any further into that
anyway, I am sure a lot of people are happy that I don't make policies or laws or anything like that (including myself, usually)
 
 
3 hours later…
9:32 AM
Hello, chatizens! I have returned.
 
Hey. From where?
 
from not being here for a while
welcome back
 
@Baskakov_Dmitriy Also from a different location where I gave a very intensive and partly stressful course and where I had no internet connection. Which kept me from being here for a while.
@kviiri Did it help?
 
9:55 AM
Glad to see you back :)
 
10:13 AM
@Anaphory He replied and promised he'd look into it. No concrete results so far (that would've been quite a stretch from anyone!) but knowing the issue is being handled is a serious relief.
 
10:38 AM
@kviiri Cool! I'll check with my house mates whether something has arrived in NL in the meantime, and if not I'll also send him an email.
 
@Anaphory I think the official statement is "don't start worrying before 7 August" but I asked the Finnish RPG Facebook group and everyone's had their books for like a month and a half... so I think I had just cause :P
 
Okay, I might start worrying on 7 August then, there's enough other things I need to catch up to that I can wait until then!
 
What's the main site's policy on "How powerful is X" type questions?
My GM proposed to me a homebrewed item and I'd like some estimate on its usefulness beforehand.
 
@kviiri We have a mix of closed and open questions of that kind.
It's honestly pretty difficult to guess how the site will react.
"Is X over/under powered" tends to do a bit better, if only because so many Xs are so drastically overpowered that it's obvious to everyone what the answer is.
 
@kviiri Needs a useful set of criteria to judge by.
Powerful for what, compared to what, in what context?
 
10:46 AM
Well, in that case I'll start by probing the chat: my level 6 bard found a homebrewed item that allows him to concentrate on two spells at the same time.
Upon taking damage, a single concentration check is made and both spells fail if the concentration breaks.
The item was given as a response to my perpetual whining that I would like to do more buffing and debuffing, which just doesn't work that well in 5e because of the concentration mechanics.
 
@kviiri It's hard to say that that's overpowered, because it changes the balance of the game so fundamentally that it's just not that simple.
Like, you can now do things that would normally require two party members.
There are, for sure, things you could do with it that would make your GM regret ever letting you have it.
 
I can do some very specific things that would normally require two party members, but I don't think that's an issue in itself.
I mean, I could do things like stack Haste on my friends and Slow on my enemies for a hilarious kiting exercise, but that's something I could already do by sharing the burden with my wizard friend.
 
7
Q: Are spell comparison questions on-topic and sufficiently objective?

B. S. MorgansteinAfter asking this question (Functionally, how does Power Word Kill work?), it was suggested to me in the comments that I may instead want to ask how Power Word Kill compares to other level 9 spells. I wanted to know if questions of this type are: a) On-topic - while I am tempted to say yes, sin...

 
nwp
You could fly with greater invisibility and shoot down arrows for 10 minutes. Even without proficiency 600 attacks should do some damage.
Although that can probably already be done too.
 
I once built a 3.5 character who could cast four or five spells each turn.
 
10:58 AM
@nwp I mean, that's a fundamental point here - it won't let you do anything that you couldn't do with 2 party members.
Anyway, I gotta go for a bit.
 
Time Stop.
Time Stop.
Time Stop.
Time Stop.

And for the rest of my turns.... how about some Delayed Blast Fireballs?
 
@Miniman Yeah, this is a serious limitation that I think ought to make it more reasonable.
 
It came out to, um, 4x(4d4+4)-1 fireballs of about 24d6 each, Reflex half damage per. Oh, and make 'em nonlethal sonic balls so they don't damage the infrastructure.
 
We already have a wizard along with my bard, so we could do all these weird twinned buffs if we wanted to.
 
(The -1 was for an action to jump into the bag of holding the monk was holding open for me.)
 
11:07 AM
Portfolio of Holding, the far more obscure cousin of the Bag of Holding, does little to reduce its contents' weight, but does provide a reasonably good expected long-term revenue for them.
 
11:31 AM
@kviiri hmmm, I wonder... can you glue lots of dimensional holes onto the pages of a Folio book (12 x 17.5 inches / 307 x 445 mm) and then make it a "catalogue of wares"?
 
@Trish Oh boy, that'd be something!
 
@nwp Oh comeon, you take a catalogue of wares (see above) up and just empty it - the damage of falling, medium sized boulders should accumulate high enough, and since falling time is not factored in, you will likely smash everybody!
 
 
1 hour later…
12:42 PM
@Adeptus That's... probably not quite true. The constitutional term is "natural born citizen" which, problematically, is not strictly defined either in statute* or in case law. Some argue that "natural born citizen" should be read as "citizen by dint of their birth," or "citizen at the time of their birth." The edge-case has to do with children born to US citizens while abroad who, as long as the parents attest to desire their child's citizenship, are citizens at birth by statute...
rather than "naturally."
This almost certainly would have become settled law in 2008 had John McCain won the election, as he was born in a naval facility in Panama (proper) while his parents were living in the Canal Zone. (IIRC.) That's because (a) it would have gone all the way to the Supreme Court and (b) IMO they would have ruled 9-0 to state that a citizen at birth by the 1790 Naturalization Act qualifies as a "natural born citizen."
 
@nitsua60 general stack question: if someone has answer that you think is mostly right, is it worth discussing with them to make a change or is better just to submit your own answer?
 
If for no other reason than they would not have allowed themselves to come to the conclusion that a person who suffered torture as a POW, served in Congress for decades, and then won the national election, could not be the President.
@NautArch I usually drop a "+1 already, but I think xyz could use abc improvement" comment; if they agree, great! If not, come back in a day or two to craft your own.
* - even more frustratingly, there's an attempt to work on "natural born citizen" in statute, but it's not settled whether that applies or whether it'd fall to the Supremacy clause.
 
@nitsua60 gotcha
 
@NautArch Or do it now. I don't think there's really a "right" or "wrong" here.
 
@nitsua60 I think I'd rather give them a chance first. The rest o the answer is topnotch and I don'tw ant to reinvent the wheel or copypasta it with the single change I'd like to make.
 
12:51 PM
Sounds good!
 
1:28 PM
Morning friends!
 
Good morning!
 
@nitsua60 50 years from now we'll see a court case over whether kids developed in medical artificial wombs count constitutionally as "natural born citizens".
(I am half joking and all serious with that. Someone's going to try to do that.)
 
@doppelgreener 500 years from now we'll see a court case whether functional but disembodied brains developed in artificial wombs as spares count constitutionally as "citizens"
 
@eimyr That one will draw on court precedent that will be set 250 years from now determining whether artificial intelligences with equivalent capacities to human can count as citizens.
 
@doppelgreener Perhaps we'll see a court case about whether or not Cesarean is considered "natural born"
 
1:39 PM
o.o
 
@doppelgreener I now want to re-read the short story "Linia Oporu" ("Line of Resistance") by Jacek Dukaj
 
nwp
@eimyr don't worry, in 20 years the apocalypse will make the idea of a constitution obsolete
 
@doppelgreener I think that one's actually settled, to the extent that the phrase "natural born citizen" is settled anyway. A while back the Dept. of State and the Customs and Immigration Service rewrote the definition of child to stop requiring a genetic relationship and to only require legal parent-status not precluded by someone else's biological+legal claim in the jurisdiction where the thing is happening.
 
@nwp "Consitution" will be only about how much rotten meat you can eat before get sick.
 
IOW I can go to Nepal and have a Nepalese woman gestate the embryo of an egg donor and a sperm donor, receive the child at birth, and be it's parent for all purposes of US law--including ligitimation and tramsmission of citizenship--as long as the donors and the gestational mother have all renounced their legal rights in Nepal.
 
1:43 PM
@nwp I remember reading an analysis once about the US civil war. It took the stance that losing the war was basically apocalyptic for the south, in the sense that their entire way of life was pretty much shattered all at once.
 
(I mention Nepal because I believe this particular constellation actually happens there. [rummages])
 
@Adam What end point were they trying to make? Cause "the war was apocalyptic to the south" doesn't get me to an end-point.
 
@nitsua60 oh good!
 
@doppelgreener I happened to fall down this rabbit-hole when my sister-in-law was a surrogate mother.
 
@godskook I think it was something like: when you think of an apocalypse, you think of the end of the world. The end times. Flames, and anarchy and all that. But an apocalyptic event doesn't necessarily have to mean the end of our existence. It then went on to demonstrate the point using the civil war as an example
 
1:50 PM
o.o
 
@Adam So, trying to point out the existence of a cultural or societal apocalypse, as distinct from a civilization- or species-level apocalypse?
 
That's a good way of putting it, yeah.
 
2:08 PM
@Adam I mean....ok, they might have a point, in as much as it was a harsh situation to be in. About 1 in 30 Confederate citizens died in that war. Otoh, its not like it does much for my sympathies. Which again, leaves me wondering, what's the thrusting point, i.e., the reaction they want me to have, for what the author is saying?
 
@godskook It's not making any point about the south one way or the other. It isn't trying to make you sympathize with them or with the union. It was just a piece about how, from a certain point of view, an apocalyptic event doesn't necessarily mean the end of all things. An event which immediately ends a certain way of life, or that begins a new era could also be considered apocalyptic.
And it used the US Civil War to demonstrate what that might look like.
The discovery of fire, the manufacture of steel, firearms, or the creation of the internet could all, in some way, be considered apocalyptic.
 
Seems like the sort of thing that needs to be written and read by people who've not experienced apocalypse. I doubt my neighbors, the Schagticoke Tribal Nation, need anyone to tell them that apocalypses don't require meteor-strikes.
 
@nitsua60 Wowsers. :O
 
2:44 PM
@Adam I just gotta question the author's choice of example. The Civil War, while brutal, was not, afaik, notably brutal relative to other conflicts which could be picked. World War 1 would've, as far as I can tell, been both a far more apt example(a more brutal war) and far less controversial as an example.
 
Or the fall of Rome, a very commonly-cited inspiration for Post-Apocalyptic fiction.
 
@godskook The overall brutality of the choice of conflict as well as the moral stance on each side was irrelevant in the analysis. It wasn't about "How sad it was for the south that everything changed" it was "Everything changed, so to them it was an apocalypse" WWI was also apocalyptic, but not because it was bloodier. Either make fine examples.
@kviiri Also a very good example of an apocalyptic event.
 
@Adam was just about to type something similar. Apocalyptic isn't a descriptor of the events leading up to it - it's a descriptor for what happened after it.
 
Some time ago, maybe a ear, maybe two, someone on this chat pointed out to me that high fantasy often has post-apocalyptic elements (quite possibly because of borrowing from the fall of Rome).
"We have these irreplaceable magical artifacts left by the great mages or gods of the past" is hardly different from "We have this salvaged tech from the early 2000's. How did they ever build these things?"
 
Hi all!
Can I ask your opinion about a homebrew feat I'm making?
 
2:51 PM
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" -- Aurthur C. Clarke
 
@Szega It's OP :)
 
@Szega Yup! It's probably best to get back on topic anyway. What system and what feat?
 
dnd5e
Scroll Scribe
Prequisite: being able to write down spells
First you have to prepare the scroll. For every level of the spell the process takes 2 hours and consumes 25 gp worth of fine inks and materials. After that you need to cast the spell into the prepared scroll, which is successful only if you pass an Intelligence(Arcana) check with a DC 10 + the level of the spell. Failure on the test ruins the scroll.
 
@BanjoFox And any sufficiently advanced magic is...?
 
@Szega How hard is 10+Spell_level in 5e?
 
2:52 PM
Still magic?
 
@godskook Not very.
 
@godskook basic DC to cast from a scroll over your level
 
And how expensive is 25g?
 
@godskook half of a healing potion; not too expensive
 
Compared to scroll cost.
 
2:53 PM
@godskook writing down a spell into a wizard book is 50gp/lvl
 
@Szega does this mean anyone can create and use a scroll of any type? or do the same class requirements remain?
 
@Szega, don't care. That doesn't provide "fuel".
 
@NautArch the only prequisite is as mentioned
 
@NautArch In 5e, you can only cast a spell from the scroll if it is an eligible spell for your class, if I recall correctly.
 
2:54 PM
basically wizards, with Ritual Caster feat or tomeLock
 
@Szega SO baically, this is allowing players to create magic items, but removing the use prerequisite and moving it to the scribe?
 
@NautArch I'm not sure. ATM both checks remain
 
@Szega 25 gp for the school that you chose at lvl 2
 
@Szega that'd be incredibly over-powered in 3.5, with similarly-based skill checks.
 
@Szega I definitely think both checks should remain (and the oriignal scroll requirements for it be on your list)
 
2:55 PM
@NautArch you have to be able to cast the spell, as that is part of the process
 
@Szega and then it's just a normal scroll with all the same requirements? So really this is about allowing a PC to craft a magic item?
 
@NautArch exactly
 
@Szega I don't know your party, but I'd be slightly worried about some more min-maxy players taking a several week holiday to forge hundreds of spell scrolls.
 
@Szega is it 25g per spell level or 25g total?
 
@godskook per spell level
 
2:56 PM
@Szega What are the differences between giving someone this feat and giving someone a ring of spell storing?
 
@nitsua60 I was wondering the exact same thing
 
@Szega While researching, came across page 140 of the DMG (Scroll Mishaps) could be fun to include those :)
 
@Szega Ok. You're using non-standard phrasing for that, then and that's throwing at least me off.
 
@nitsua60 you can craft scrolls of any level. RoSS is limited to 5 slots worth of power
 
@nitsua60 it takes a feat, it costs you gp to change the spell, but you can distribute them through the party as you wish
 
2:58 PM
@Szega How much would a cantrip scroll cost? A level 0 spell by these rules costs 0 gp and a DC 10 check.
 
@Adam up to debate, 25gp or 10gp, dunno
 
For a rules nerd that I am, I'm still not sure if cantrips are officially spells in 5e or not.
 
Opportunity cost of a feat. Monetary cost, but not that large? Unbounded capacity. No attunement. Distribute at will.
 
Embarrassing!
 
@kviiri they are, but there are some special rules for them
 
2:59 PM
Yeah, I'm personally worried about unbounded capacity.
 
Seems pretty strong, though a feat-slot ain't nothing.
 
@kviiri Cantrips are officially level 0 spells
 
@kviiri If I make it "sit" in the slot, it might not "feel ok"
 
@Szega Take a look at the downtime unearthed arcana. It gives some guidance on magic item crafting. BIggets thing is that the cost/time to carft is much bigger.
 
@Adam Source?
 
3:00 PM
@Szega I'm thinking about downtime--this is a ludicrous way to bank spell slots given even just a week between adventures.
 
@Szega It probably wouldn't, and you might have to hammer some narrative into making it work for your players, but I'd recommend at least having a hard or soft cap on the amount of spells currently extant as your scrolls.
 
@nitsua60 that's kind of why i like the downtime rules as a means of balance for this.
 
@NautArch next time i introduce a funny way of speaking in a game, "biggets" is gonna be in their vocab.
 
@Adam Well, there I have it.
 
3:01 PM
@NautArch You mean the existing ones? Like you could make scrolls using usual magical crafting rules, but it'd take 10 days just to make one L1 scroll?
 
I think the rules in the DMG make a lvl 1 scroll cost 100 gp and 4 days for one person.
 
@Adam (I always get the 5gp/day and 25gp/day bits mixed up if I don't look them up first.)
 
A cap on the cumulated slot levels seems better, because if I make it take weeks, they will never craft any really
or make them only useable for 3 days or so
 
Object lifespans are hard to implement in a fun way though. They tend to involve bookkeeping.
 
The stock DMG rules do seem a little hard to justify at the higher levels. a 9th level scroll takes a stupid long time to make.
@nitsua60 I tried implementing them in my game and gave my players 2 weeks of downtime. They all avoided crafting anything.
 
3:08 PM
@doppelgreener What's it going to mean?
 
@Adam Well, they can craft 70gp-worth? What's that get someone? IME it just takes one player who likes the "away from table" game to start throwing things out there--that'll get the others to see the fun and table-utility.
 
I never found downtime rules interesting enough, so we usually just say something like "you spend two to three months recovering from your previous adventures. A lovely holiday!" and maybe some extra RP fodder like "how does Tuikku the Thief pass the time when off-duty?"
 
@nitsua60 For scrolls, they had enough time for one person to craft 3 cantrip/1st level scrolls, since magic items are 25gp per day. And if the casters had worked together, they could've pumped out 2 level 2 scrolls. At least that's what I did.
 
@godskook means biggest, but said biggets.
like aks vs ask
 
@Adam That's true. And hopefully, seeing some casters consistently have a little more cap-room, the others will see the wisdom =)
 
3:15 PM
One of the players asked "If I can craft scrolls, can I craft magic items instead?" I told him that the methods for making these items was lost to time, so he would need to find a magical formula for them somewhere in the world before that. He spent his downtime researching where a formula might be, so I can't exactly be mad at him for that.
Of course, he was miffed when the first lead he took went cold, but he'll just have to accept it isn't that easy to unearth the lost secrets of a bygone era.
 
3:27 PM
@godskook for my education: is E6 a thing that has any roots in 3.0, or did it only arise in 3.5 times?
 
@nitsua60 It seems it was born between 2006-2007: enworld.org/forum/…
That places its origins firmly several years into D&D 3.5e's run, where 3e arrived in 2000 and 3.5e arrived in 2003.
 
@nitsua60 Timing-wise, E6 is a 3.5 construct. No idea if 3.0 played an unusually high role in it other than as the precursor to 3.5. As @doppelgreener notes, its about 4 years too young for there to be much question on the subject, given how ubiquitous 3.5 adoption was.
 
Thanks @doppelgreener, @godskook.
 
@doppelgreener I believe it is related to Bigly.
@nitsua60 @Szega More that you'd allow the feat of crafting them - but use the rules in downtime as guidance for time/cost.
 
@NautArch If you're going to use the DT rules, why do you need the feat? All you need is the DMG guidance, no?
 
3:39 PM
@NautArch @doppelgreener Bigets n. - 1. something that has been bigly embiggened. 2. reg, Tennessee Bigots. Ex. Bigets is a perfectly cromulent word.
 
@nitsua60 Maybe? But Unearthed Arcana isn't official, either. Using their direction on how to approach a specific feat is what I was recommending. Or use the DMG guidance (but if the DMG has guidance on this, why the need to include it in downtime and make it different?)
 
"'Cromulent?' That's the bigets word I know!"
 
@eimyr This definition is clearly unpossible. Utilizing these words may summon a kwyjibo.
 
@eimyr the biggets thing is the embiggendst thing
 
y'all'st'd've
 
3:44 PM
outfrom'wayfrom
E.g. "Y'all'st'd've get outfrom'wayfrom that expensive car!"
 
I'm so angry I can't share my joy when watching Silesian dialect videos with non-polish speakers.
 
4:38 PM
@BESW I found a Worldbuilding.SE question relevant to me!:
60
Q: How Long Could an "Eternal" Fire Last?

mmurHow Long could an "Eternal" Fire last? At some point there is a fire very spiritually important to a certain people - so important that they build a city around it, and begin developing an empire with one of their main motivations being to provide fuel to the fire. They believe that if it burns...

 
haha
 
:D
 
/facepalm
 
I have a campaign setting sitting on the backburner that prominently involves a city built around an eternal fire.
(I paused in the middle of that sentence to reflect on good wording choice.)
 
and you're considering having a non-eternal eternal fire?
@doppelgreener slow clap
 
4:46 PM
@NautArch this one just tells me a bit more about how I'd do it. :)
 
I mean... wood fuel is easy... you cut down one part of the forest and replant while the next part gets used up :P
 
Yeah, though the idea of huge kilns is awesome.
Basically: Volcanic caldera, poisonous lake, toxic fumes emanate from the lake so nothing can survive near the volcano, poisonous rivers leading away from the lake kills things far away from the volcano. Humans and dwarves come in, find out the hard way that the toxic fumes are flammable, and thereafter keep the surface of the lake burning to cleanse the fumes. The ash produced is considered holy and gets used in a water filtration system that also cleans the river water.
So everyone gets clean water and clean air and everyone's happy. Especially the elves whose land this is, and whose forest is being harvested for the wood. Except the humans and dwarves were historically only offered living in this area as temporary refuge, and the young generation of elves wants to drive them out by force, because they cannot accept on principle that these people have overstayed their welcome and are harvesting an elven forest.
It's an unstable situation and I wanted to send the players in there to be the wrecking ball of plans & schemes players always are.
Importantly though they could choose whose plans & schemes to wreck, and how, and make their own as well.
 
@nitsua60 do you happen to know what book for AD&D would have beasts and animals in it? I found a Druid Companion but its for 2nd edition
 
5:12 PM
@doppelgreener If the fumes are flameable, why do they need extra wood to burn the fumes? just to make the ashes?
 
@Trish To keep the fumes burning -- they're not guaranteed to self-perpetuate their own fire, so they tend an eternal fire to keep the lake burning.
 
@doppelgreener that wouldn't bneed to be that large... just about... two or three trees a day.
 
There's a watchtower built at the top of the caldera where you can look out over the lake and watch fire streak across its surface as new pockets of gas catch alight.
 
How do they account for the weather? What happens when it rains or snows?
 
@MikeQ That's why I liked that worldbuilding question. The dude talked about using enormous woodburning kilns, and I realised, hey, I never actually thought about what would happen when it rains.
(Snow wouldn't be a concern, but rain and heavy wind would be.)
 
5:18 PM
The best options that come to mind are: 1. a semi-enclosed structure, resulting in a "fire temple", or 2. wizards set up enchantments to block off natural effects
 
Depends on the depth of the caldera, the ammount of gas getting out... and if they manage to place a clay dome over the caldera, funneling the gas to one place to get a self sustained burn
 
5:30 PM
I still like the kiln building idea, maybe something like... To protect the fires, the dwarves created a massive engineering marvel in the caldera: a behemoth of ritual chambers, maintenance walkways, and tunnels for managing heat and water flow. The resulting structure is considered a "holy temple" at the center of this city. Now the GM has a plot-relevant set piece that can also serve as a possible dungeon.
 
:)
 
@BanjoFox african or european?
 
They didn't specify... :D I was hoping to find a QnA as good as you and failed v.v
 
Family was watching Smurfs Lost Village this weekend and I see the Joe Manganiello was one of the voices. Wife says "oh, that's Sofia Vergara's husband". I follow with "yes, and he's really into D&D. Kind of their entertainment poster child for the developers right now." Wife responds, "Really? Maybe I need to think about this some more..."
 
"the developers' -> D&D?
 
6:15 PM
maybe developers was wrong word. PUblisher may have been better :)
 
Oh okay :)
 
@NautArch I mean, I don't blame her. Joe Manganiello could make me rethink any of my life choices.
 
6:37 PM
@Yuuki hahaha. I'm just happy tabletop gaming and D&D has a popular entertainment figure helping publicize it :)
 
Vin Diesel doesn't count?
 
@NautArch The google cards on my phone tell me that D&D is supposedly having some kind of renaissance with all the high profile players and successful streams.
 
@BanjoFox For me, not as much. DId he stop doing stuff with D&D after his movie came out?
 
@NautArch Afaik, he's NEVER stopped doing things with D&D. And by "doing things" I mean playing D&D privately. No idea how much D&D-stuff he does within his career.
And.....rep-capped.
 
@godskook In that case, I still love Vin. :D
 
6:46 PM
Is rep/day a per-stack setting or something that holds for all stacks?
 
Apparently, Vin had a fake tattoo of his character's name on his stomach for one of his movies
 
lol
 
@NautArch Like, I'm getting results suggesting that Riddick is based off Diesel's Drow PC.
 
@godskook that's...beautiful.
 
And at which point, that makes Pitch Black a movie about Drizzt
 
6:50 PM
@godskook racist! not all drow are the same! :P
 
@NautArch No, but apparently all Drizzt clones are :P
Think about it, in Pitch Black, Riddick is a "misunderstood" outsider from a "clearly evil class of people" being constantly judged by everyone else not by what he is but by prejudice. And then he saves the day. Also, something something angst.

Clearly Drizzt. :P
 
@godskook Is this when I should say that I've never read any of the Drizzt stories?
 
@NautArch Neither have I :P
(I'm just going on the community's meme-Drizzt)
 
@godskook hahaha!
I'm in the middle of a couple of series' right now, but waiting on library availability to finish. History of Bellevue hosptial in the meantime :)
 
@godskook Also has darkvision
 
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