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12:00 AM
> each of two or more words having the same spelling but different meanings and origins (e.g., pole1 and pole2); a homograph.
@ATaco that dictionary you're using sucks
like 90% of the world uses homonyms to mean homographs
12:01 AM
I think
therefore I am
no. I am
@Luis are you trying to steal my consciousness?
We can both be :-)
well, your reasoning I should say is faulty
I mean, you could be a smiley, but wouldn't you rather be a person ? :P
12:03 AM
@LuisMendo Is "Luis" pronounced "lewis" or "louise" or "louize"? :p
Your consiousness is not a result of my thinking
no. it is "loser"
@DestructibleLemon oooohh shiiiiiitttttt
my bet is louis, hard s
@HelkaHomba None, I think. It's "lwis" in IPA, one syllable. So closest to "Louise" I think, but that has two syllables and the "i" is long
Yes, hard s, as in "hiss", not "his"
(Is that "hard s"?)
I think so?
12:05 AM
so it sounds more like loose than louis?
It sounds "softer" to me
@LuisMendo huh, never heard that pronounced like that
note: it's quite annoying that test works but _t_est doesn't
@Riker That's the standard way in Spanish? Unless I got my IPA wrong
^^ Yes
I've heard lewy and lu-ess
not lwis
Influence of English, that must be :-)
12:07 AM
Good night all!
Q: Make a Rube Goldberg Quine

MD XFFor this golf, you will need to use more than one language. The task A Rube Goldberg machine is a contraption that takes an enormous number of complicated steps in order to execute a very simple task. A quine is a program that prints its source. The goal of this task is to output your original ...

12:24 AM
Does anyone here have Mathematica
does mathics work?
@ConorO'Brien No, they don't have the feature I want to test, already tried on TIO and looked in the source
@ASCII-only yes
but in raspberry pi which is hidden in drawer running as shit server and has probably melted due to overheat ;_;
@Downgoat ono ;_;
Q: Prisoner's Dilemma v.3 - Petri Dilemma

GryphonA mad scientist has just created a new species of bacterium! He has decided to name it Noblus Gentlemanus, after observing its behaviour. However, his bacteria have ran out of food, and are have declared war, as they are able to harvest other bacterium's corpses for enough food to create copies...

1:14 AM
tfw you downvote an answer and then your rep isn't a multiple of 5 so you're sad
2:09 AM
i think i got my codegolf challenge down pat codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…
2:32 AM
what do u guys think
2:54 AM
nothing to see here | rien à voir ici | nada que ver aqui
3:11 AM
@Riker history tells us everything | l'histoire nous dit tous | la historia nos dice todos
@MartinEnder @Dennis if we made a German TNB, would you guys join?
A man was riking. The man is a what? [A riker]
3:31 AM
I have three versions of TNB open :D I have TNB, LDNB, and DDB open :P
Und mir.
eh what
and me?
I was trying to go for "Me too"
Ich auch would probably be better...
3:39 AM
Ah okay.
3:56 AM
A: Should user talk at chat room in other language than english?

MosheIf there is nobody else in the room at the moment, and you want to explain things, I suppose it is okay. However, if two people began speaking in a different language in front of me (in real life) and they knew I didn't speak it, that would be rude. Considering that SE is a group of English speak...

A: What languages are we allowed to speak in SE chat rooms?

Shog9The short answer is: whatever language the other folks present in the room are comfortable speaking. All else being equal, if you jump into a room and start posting stuff that isn't understandable to the majority of the users there, you're probably going to get some pushback. And as a practical...

@Mego the French version of TNB has been around for centuries. I don't see any problem.
TL;DR: you probably should make a German-speaking room unless it was on the German language site
unless you're trying to have a crackdown on every foreign language room
are you going to have a crackdown on the French TNB?
@LeakyNun My understanding is that the French room is more geared towards learning French. Is that incorrect?
3:58 AM
@Mego well sure
I can't crack down on anything. I'm just a guy pretending to be a penguin on the internet.
then the German room can also be geared towards learning German
Duplicate rooms get closed by mods. I'm certain there's a German learning room on German Language
> The short answer is: whatever language the other folks present in the room are comfortable speaking.
@HyperNeutrino 404
4:00 AM
@HyperNeutrino sigh it's the é in the url
taco's userscript breaks that, the message/ becomes messagé
I've sent a pr already
I'm disabling that for now
that and >> into the >> char
4:00 AM
oh right i didn't turn it off
I'm not saying there shouldn't be a German language learning room or a French language learning room. I'm just saying that maybe those rooms would be more appropriate under the respective sites for those languages, rather than PPCG.
in Das Deutsch Byte, 3 mins ago, by Hyper Neutrino
I like how the german room is half german and half korean
@Mego is the presence of those rooms bothering you (or any mod) in any way?
@Mego that is a good point
4:01 AM
@LeakyNun It's not that they're bothering me. You're reading this situation completely wrong.
@Mego you're being very pointed about it, so it's hard to decipher your intentions
@DestructibleLemon wait what about me
I'm just offering a suggestion. I'm not saying "do this now or else", especially because I don't know what the "or else" would be.
yea, you don't seem to be offering in a particularly polite way. there's nothing wrong with how you're saying it, but it appears to imply you dislike the situation
@Mego That is talking about english chatrooms with different languages. We have specific rooms for separate languages I don't see how that is a problem? (or am I missing context?)
it mentions the latter too
4:05 AM
Ultimately I'm just responsible for this room and for chat flags on chat.SE, so if you guys do decide to make Das neunzehnte Byte (thanks Google Translate), more power to you. But if mods/10k users on chat.SE have to start dealing with foreign language flags (more than we already do with the foreign language SO sites), someone might decide to shut it down.
@Riker I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
@Mego I understood that reference.gif
@Mego unrelated note: that is a weird way to say 19 (neunzehnte)
@Riker It's what Google Translate gave me for "nineteenth"
yep it's accurate
just weird
(German Numbers are not my Forté)
4:08 AM
I speak very little german :P
@LeakyNun I might, but probably not.
@HyperNeutrino s/Deutsch/Deutsche/
Oktett if you want to avoid the lean word. ;)
4:18 AM
@Dennis How do I remove the element at index x from list y in Jelly?
(or index y from list x)
;/ can become F is the list is flat.
oh ok thanks :D
4:32 AM
@TuxCopter question: what does "Est-ce que celle-ci vous vont" mean, google translate is going crazy
@Downgoat we have a french room
I accidentally moved the contents of / to /webserver;-;
@LeakyNun yeah, but tux not pingable there
your sentence doesn't make sense, unless "celle-ci" is plural, in which case it means "do these go to you"
@LeakyNun context:
I am a salesperson in a shoe store. You have come in to buy boots and I am waiting on you. Please answer my question.
Vous désirez Monsieur (Mademoiselle)? Je voudrais des bottes.
En cuir ou en caoutchouc? Je le veux en cuir
Quelle est votre pointure? Elle est trente-neuf
Est-ce que celle-ci vous vont?
4:34 AM
On the old crappy mobile chat site code formatting appears in Times New Roman.
I can't use the new one because borked badly ok my phone.
@Downgoat I've no idea then
I have successfully killed my Remote Server.
a-ta.co may be down for a while.
tbh I mostly expect these kinds of stories from downgoat.
Good thing I keep a backup!
It's just old!
4:37 AM
Why is Linux so easy to kill...
Why was I signed in as root is another question.
These questions and more will not be answered.
you were signed in as root :I
why :I
> These questions and more will not be answered.
if you are doing random stuff as root then you usually deserve whatever happens to you :D jk :)
4:39 AM
Maybe It's time I started doing regular backups...
use github ffs :I
But then I need to keep the server up to date!
Personally I prefer git lab.
@Phoenix :|
Idk what you're replying to because crappy old mobile site
4:47 AM
10 mins ago, by Phoenix
tbh I mostly expect these kinds of stories from downgoat.
It's true tho.
rm -rf ~ comes to mind
rm -rf ~ atleast won't ruin your linux installation.
CMC: given a potentially infinite input stream of text, write the entire input up to the current point at each newline.
@Phoenix Which time?
sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root /
4:49 AM
btw don't do this in case you don't know what it is for any non-linux people
Also don't do mv /* ~/*
It will be a syntax error for non Linux people
It doesn't even ask you if you do that.
don't do anything with /*.
@Phoenix true
4:50 AM
i guess i meant people who don't know bash
To my great disappointment mv /dev/zero ~/ does not write infinite zeroes and just makes a generic, useless empty file.
@Phoenix I'm not sure what you expected. That's not at all how device files work.
Now cat < /dev/zero > ~/zero would in fact do what you think.
That was literally day one of having a Linux.
me using linux: rm /dev/null
4:54 AM
a while later: computer freezes for some reason
Based on all of the horror stories I'm hearing about people with Linux, maybe you should have to have a license to use Linux :P
lol :P
Take a class, prove knowledge, then you get to plug in that Live USB
idea: just don't mess with important files or things like ~, /, /*, etc
@HyperNeutrino Linux newbs don't know that they're important
4:56 AM
ooh cat /dev/zero > /dev/null
@Mego true
Then again, I knew /dev/null is important and I deleted it anyway because I'm dumb :D
@Mego I'm citing this next time someone says use linux
It's my Linux, I'll break it how I like.
Linux is fun because it breaks. Wouldn't have it any other way.
5:04 AM
I'd prefer a system that doesn't break unless I want it to. Perhaps not even then.
Then don't make like taco and use su -c
@Mego why cat < /dev/zero and not cat /dev/zero
What does su -c do
How to break operating systems:
Linux: mess around without know what you're doing
Mac: idk i'm not a mac user
Windows: install it
:I no i mean windows always is broken
5:07 AM
can someone verify if this is right? det(transpose(matrix)) == -det(matrix)
wait no
@HyperNeutrino are you using :| for your emoitocon for some reason look weird
det(transpose(matrix)) == det(matrix) because cofactor expansion
:O you are using lowercase L
Capital i
5:08 AM
Poll which one is best: :I :l :|
:| is the only symmetric
rip the strawpoll font is weird
For reference: :I :| :l in that order
5:12 AM
I vote for capital I because when you actually force a face with that expression, the sides of your mouth form small "creases" (for lack of a better word) which is represented by the semi-serif
Jelly Question, how do I do something like 3 -> [[[1, 1], [1, 2], [1, 3]], [[2, 1], [2, 2], [2, 3]], [[3, 1], [3, 2], [3, 3]]]?
@HyperNeutrino p
Oh wait I missed the extra braces
5:16 AM
Does't appear to work :(
Are you sure? Click the link
It gives the exact output you specified
oh well i must be integrating it incorrectly into the rest of my program. my bad. thanks!
5:20 AM
@Mego Would it be in idea to create a meta post listing PPCG specific abbreviations, and link to that in the room description. I'm thinking things like TNB, CMC, VTC, TIO, etc.
What is pseudorandom?
Random that's not really random.
i.e. as much random as possible in the real world?
@Adám VTC?
Vote To Close
@Adám VTC isn't a PPCG-specific abbreviation (though other places on SE tend to use CV more). But yeah, I think that a meta post would be a good idea. I'll bring up the room description link with the other ROs.
5:22 AM
@Arjun See?
@Arjun It means that it is deterministic given enough information about the system.
Respectively, the abbreviations are The Nineteenth Byte, Chat Mini Challenge, Vote To Close, Try It Online, Et Cetera
@Arjun Actual randomness is possible in the real world. Just not in mathematics.
@Mego How?
many rngs are seeded by time. If you know the time it was seeded you know the result
@Arjun radiation
5:23 AM
Nuclear decay is completely random
and other quantum phenomenon are entirely random as far as we can tell
Completely random?
Bell's theorem is a "no-go theorem" that draws an important distinction between quantum mechanics (QM) and the world as described by classical mechanics. This theorem is named after John Stewart Bell. In its simplest form, Bell's theorem states: No physical theory of local hidden variables can ever reproduce all of the predictions of quantum mechanics. Cornell solid-state physicist David Mermin has described the appraisals of the importance of Bell's theorem in the physics community as ranging from "indifference" to "wild extravagance". Lawrence Berkeley particle physicist Henry Stapp declared...
If you have a sample of a radioactive element, you can estimate how long it will take for half of it to decay. But with just one atom, you have no idea when it will decay.
5:25 AM
@Mego Is it proven to be random, or we just don't know?
@Arjun It's been proven. See WW's link to Bell's theorem.
Proven in the physicists sense of the word.
@Mego I bet I won't understand almost everything from it. :P
I'll try to simplify it
There are three important properties in physics: locality (stuff is only directly influenced by its immediate surroundings), realism (stuff exists and happens independent of our consciousness and observation), and causality (if event A happened before event B, event B cannot have caused event A).
5:30 AM
Err, that's not a great explanation for realism. Let me try again
The idea of classical physics is that every system can be perfectly calculated by its initial conditions. This means that if some behavior seems random we don't know enough about it. There is some "hidden variable". Bell's theorem shows that certain QM systems cannot be explained with hidden variables, without violating locality. Thus locality, an extremely important and well believed pillar of modern physics, is falsy or there is true randomness in the universe.
I saw a good video of this somewhere
Yeah that's a good explanation
or we live in a multiverse
Q: Make a Number Triangle

Bobas_PettThe first 3 iterations of the "Number Triangle" (or a variation thereof) are n=1 1 121 11111 n=2 1 121 12321 1222221 111111111 n=3 1 121 12321 1234321 123333321 12222222221 1111111111111 Challenge Given an integer n output the nth iteration of the "Num...

5:31 AM
which is just a populist term for saying that the Universe exists in a superposition of all possible states
@JanDvorak Whether or not there is randomness in the many world hypothesis is more of a philosophical argument
Locality is important because it's very related to special relativity. Locality plus special relativity means that an event at a point A cannot cause a simultaneous event at a different point B (because that would be FTL communication).
@WheatWizard Not quite. Many worlds let you preserve locality (which is nice if you believe in the theory of relativity) at the expense of realism.
@JanDvorak Yeah, that sounds cool.
But yes, it leads to the same set of observations as the Copenhagen interpretation
5:34 AM
I just meant that whether you experience randomness is philosophical because we start to break down conceptions of self.
:o I segfaulted Jelly
Even with the many worlds hypothesis one could argue randomness does occur.
skip to around 8:30
"self" is mostly a linguistic tool.
or watch the whole thing
5:36 AM
Many worlds hypothesis doesn't require randomness.
@HyperNeutrino I already linked that.
I know
That one starts at about the right time though :P
Oh ok thanks
5:37 AM
It took me eight seconds to realize why I no longer watch vsauce :-D
Another way around Bell's Theorem is superdeterminism - everything is completely determined, and there is no such thing as free will. People tend to not like that idea, though.
I choose to redefine free will
will is very expensive
@Mego But people like classicism and that also takes away their free will so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The true way to take away free will isn't determinism, but employment.
5:42 AM
After some stress, a-ta.co is back online.
@Mego OK, posted. NMP should pick it up soon… ;-)
NMP = New Main Posts or New Meta Posts? Which one are you referring to?
@HyperNeutrino Intentionally ambiguous abbreviation.
5:46 AM
Also, why are you linking to SO?
@WheatWizard Watched full video. Makes sense. I like VSauce.
@HyperNeutrino Fixed. Thanks.
:) np
@all Please contribute to this.
lol I'm just going through the protected questions list rn and unprotecting some ones that were autoprotected by Community
5:51 AM
@HyperNeutrino Hm, we should flag Community for vandalism. It really hurts our community. :-/
@LuisMendo one thing I forgot to mention. the built-in way to compute the signum is =, which branches based on a value's signum, but it's not particularly golfy
yes :-/ community hurts our community. 10/10
@WheatWizard Should I use "(pseudo)randomly" in my challenge or "randomly" will do?
probably pseudo
Okay, thanks :)
5:52 AM
I'm curious as to what's up with the recent spate of questions deletions of questions by a suspended user; was that some sort of plagiarism issue or the like, or was something else going on?
We need to overthrow Community. >:-)
@Arjun We assume that people don't have radioactive samples or hardware that can detect quantum tunneling, so specifing pseudorandom seems like overkill
@Arjun If we don't we should have a meta policy post suggesting that by default, random means random (and with linear distribution if nothing else is stated). How many questions actually require real randomness?
@Adám I think you mean uniform, not linear
Q: What are the PPCG specific abbreviations?

AdámNewcomers to PPCG are often compelled to ask what many of our abbreviations stand for. Let us list them here so this information always will be easily available.

5:53 AM
So, "random"?
@Mego Yes. I'm trying to get dressed to go to work.
@Mego /dev/random often makes use of hardware randomness sources in practice
@Arjun No, not until we have that meta post.
@ais523 Really, like what?
Do I get a badge for unprotecting a lot of posts? c:
hard drive rotational speed is a well-known one (because most computers have hard drives, and it's affected by random motion of air molecules)
5:55 AM
@ais523 That's not the same as true randomness, though. It just seeds based on uncontrollable (but still deterministic) things like internal temperature and such
But people have ssds now.
I'd argue they aren't deterministic; quantum theory implies that at least the low bits are true-random
There are hardware keychains that amplify shot noise
@ais523 nah, the platter rotation is determined by newtonian physics, which are deterministic
@JanDvorak the physics laws themselves are deterministic, but they only produce deterministic outputs given deterministic inputs
and one of the inputs is the position of all the individual air molecules
shot noise is non-deterministic
5:57 AM
I was talking about drive rotation there
IIRC gas molecule movement isn't truly random - the contribution that QM (and therefore true randomness) makes is so small that it doesn't make much of an impact.
I know that noise diodes are a commonly-used source of randomness, and at least two sources of noise there can count as hardware randomness, I think
(both thermal noise and shot noise)
Brownian motion is nondeterministic right
but what about random (<-- incorrect use) things decaying randomly (<-- correct use)?
radioactive decay is believed to be truly random; at least, there's no known way to predict it
only the average rate over time
5:58 AM
Radioactive decay is also a quantum-mechanical phenomenon
Interesting code golf idea: generate a (truly) random number. You can't outsource it (online, OS, etc.) so you have to access one of HDD rotation speed, internal temp, camera, mic, etc.
@ais523 ?
it'll take a while to find the actual post
@Adám So what you're saying is that you want this argument to overwhelm the comments on that question
5:59 AM
@Mego No. Not it the question states what is considered valid.
Q: Improvise a Hardware Random-Number Generator

WrzlprmftYour task is to improvise a hardware random-number generator with whatever hardware you have lieing around. Challenge Write a program with the following properties: It prints either 0 or 1 (and nothing else). The output depends on a physical process and not just the internal state of the comp...

yay i finally finished a jelly thing I've been trying for like 10 minutes

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