The Nineteenth Byte

12:00 AM

> each of two or more words having the same spelling but different meanings and origins (e.g., pole1 and pole2); a homograph.

Destructible Lemon

@ATaco that dictionary you're using sucks

Riker

^

Destructible Lemon

like 90% of the world uses homonyms to mean homographs

Riker

^

Destructible Lemon

12:01 AM

I think

Luis Mendo

therefore I am

Destructible Lemon

no. I am

@Luis are you trying to steal my consciousness?

Luis Mendo

We can both be :-)

Destructible Lemon

well, your reasoning I should say is faulty

Conor O'Brien

I mean, you could be a smiley, but wouldn't you rather be a person ? :P

Helka Homba

12:03 AM

@LuisMendo Is "Luis" pronounced "lewis" or "louise" or "louize"? :p

Destructible Lemon

Your consiousness is not a result of my thinking

no. it is "loser"

burn

Downgoat

@DestructibleLemon oooohh shiiiiiitttttt

Conor O'Brien

my bet is louis, hard s

Luis Mendo

@HelkaHomba None, I think. It's "lwis" in IPA, one syllable. So closest to "Louise" I think, but that has two syllables and the "i" is long

Yes, hard s, as in "hiss", not "his"

(Is that "hard s"?)

Conor O'Brien

I think so?

Destructible Lemon

12:05 AM

so it sounds more like loose than louis?

Luis Mendo

It sounds "softer" to me

Riker

@LuisMendo huh, never heard that pronounced like that

note: it's quite annoying that test works but _t_est doesn't

Luis Mendo

@Riker That's the standard way in Spanish? Unless I got my IPA wrong

^^ Yes

Riker

I've heard lewy and lu-ess

not lwis

Luis Mendo

Influence of English, that must be :-)

Riker

12:07 AM

hm

Good night all!

night!

o/

0

Q: Make a Rube Goldberg Quine

For this golf, you will need to use more than one language. The task A Rube Goldberg machine is a contraption that takes an enormous number of complicated steps in order to execute a very simple task. A quine is a program that prints its source. The goal of this task is to output your original ...

ASCII-only

12:24 AM

Does anyone here have Mathematica

Conor O'Brien

no

does mathics work?

ASCII-only

@ConorO'Brien No, they don't have the feature I want to test, already tried on TIO and looked in the source

Downgoat

@ASCII-only yes

but in raspberry pi which is hidden in drawer running as shit server and has probably melted due to overheat ;_;

ASCII-only

@Downgoat ono ;_;

New Main Posts

-1

Q: Prisoner's Dilemma v.3 - Petri Dilemma

A mad scientist has just created a new species of bacterium! He has decided to name it Noblus Gentlemanus, after observing its behaviour. However, his bacteria have ran out of food, and are have declared war, as they are able to harvest other bacterium's corpses for enough food to create copies...

king-of-the-hill

user165474

1:14 AM

tfw you downvote an answer and then your rep isn't a multiple of 5 so you're sad

user165474

1:31 AM

Best language ever!

Helka Homba

1:50 AM

Anyone for a game of chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/53490/contact

Destructible Lemon

maybe

Sami Altamimi

2:09 AM

i think i got my codegolf challenge down pat codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…

Sami Altamimi

2:32 AM

what do u guys think

Riker

2:54 AM

nothing to see here | rien à voir ici | nada que ver aqui

Leaky Nun

3:11 AM

@Riker history tells us everything | l'histoire nous dit tous | la historia nos dice todos

@MartinEnder @Dennis if we made a German TNB, would you guys join?

Destructible Lemon

A man was riking. The man is a what? [A riker]

3

inspired by this

DJMcMayhem

3:31 AM

Fascinating

user165474

I have three versions of TNB open :D I have TNB, LDNB, and DDB open :P

ATaco

Und mir.

user165474

eh what

user165474

and me?

ATaco

I was trying to go for "Me too"

Ich auch would probably be better...

user165474

3:39 AM

Ah okay.

Anonymous

3:56 AM

5

A: Should user talk at chat room in other language than english?

If there is nobody else in the room at the moment, and you want to explain things, I suppose it is okay. However, if two people began speaking in a different language in front of me (in real life) and they knew I didn't speak it, that would be rude. Considering that SE is a group of English speak...

Anonymous

34

A: What languages are we allowed to speak in SE chat rooms?

The short answer is: whatever language the other folks present in the room are comfortable speaking. All else being equal, if you jump into a room and start posting stuff that isn't understandable to the majority of the users there, you're probably going to get some pushback. And as a practical...

Leaky Nun

@Mego the French version of TNB has been around for centuries. I don't see any problem.

Anonymous

TL;DR: you probably should make a German-speaking room unless it was on the German language site

Leaky Nun

unless you're trying to have a crackdown on every foreign language room

are you going to have a crackdown on the French TNB?

Anonymous

@LeakyNun My understanding is that the French room is more geared towards learning French. Is that incorrect?

Leaky Nun

3:58 AM

@Mego well sure

Anonymous

I can't crack down on anything. I'm just a guy pretending to be a penguin on the internet.

Leaky Nun

then the German room can also be geared towards learning German

Anonymous

Duplicate rooms get closed by mods. I'm certain there's a German learning room on German Language

Riker

> The short answer is: whatever language the other folks present in the room are comfortable speaking.

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino 404

Riker

4:00 AM

@HyperNeutrino sigh it's the é in the url

taco's userscript breaks that, the message/ becomes messagé

user165474

sigh

Riker

I've sent a pr already

user165474

I'm disabling that for now

Riker

that and >> into the >> char

user165474

wtf

user165474

4:00 AM

oh right i didn't turn it off

Riker

^^

Anonymous

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a German language learning room or a French language learning room. I'm just saying that maybe those rooms would be more appropriate under the respective sites for those languages, rather than PPCG.

user165474

in Das Deutsch Byte, 3 mins ago, by Hyper Neutrino

I like how the german room is half german and half korean

Leaky Nun

@Mego is the presence of those rooms bothering you (or any mod) in any way?

Riker

@Mego that is a good point

Anonymous

4:01 AM

@LeakyNun It's not that they're bothering me. You're reading this situation completely wrong.

Riker

@Mego you're being very pointed about it, so it's hard to decipher your intentions

@DestructibleLemon wait what about me

Anonymous

I'm just offering a suggestion. I'm not saying "do this now or else", especially because I don't know what the "or else" would be.

Riker

yea, you don't seem to be offering in a particularly polite way. there's nothing wrong with how you're saying it, but it appears to imply you dislike the situation

Downgoat

@Mego That is talking about english chatrooms with different languages. We have specific rooms for separate languages I don't see how that is a problem? (or am I missing context?)

Riker

it mentions the latter too

Anonymous

4:05 AM

Ultimately I'm just responsible for this room and for chat flags on chat.SE, so if you guys do decide to make Das neunzehnte Byte (thanks Google Translate), more power to you. But if mods/10k users on chat.SE have to start dealing with foreign language flags (more than we already do with the foreign language SO sites), someone might decide to shut it down.

Anonymous

@Riker I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

Riker

@Mego I understood that reference.gif

@Mego unrelated note: that is a weird way to say 19 (neunzehnte)

Anonymous

@Riker It's what Google Translate gave me for "nineteenth"

Riker

yep it's accurate

just weird

ATaco

(German Numbers are not my Forté)

Anonymous

4:08 AM

I speak very little german :P

Dennis

@LeakyNun I might, but probably not.

@HyperNeutrino s/Deutsch/Deutsche/

user165474

whoops

user165474

thanks

Dennis

(wth)

Oktett if you want to avoid the lean word. ;)

user165474

lol

user165474

4:18 AM

@Dennis How do I remove the element at index x from list y in Jelly?

user165474

(or index y from list x)

Dennis

@HyperNeutrino tio.run/nexus/jelly#@/9w55qjkwus9f///2/839BAR8EIiI2B2ASITQ0A

;/ can become F is the list is flat.

user165474

oh ok thanks :D

Downgoat

4:32 AM

@TuxCopter question: what does "Est-ce que celle-ci vous vont" mean, google translate is going crazy

Leaky Nun

@Downgoat we have a french room

ATaco

I accidentally moved the contents of / to /webserver;-;

Downgoat

@LeakyNun yeah, but tux not pingable there

Leaky Nun

your sentence doesn't make sense, unless "celle-ci" is plural, in which case it means "do these go to you"

Downgoat

exactly!

@LeakyNun context:

I am a salesperson in a shoe store. You have come in to buy boots and I am waiting on you. Please answer my question.
Vous désirez Monsieur (Mademoiselle)? Je voudrais des bottes.
En cuir ou en caoutchouc? Je le veux en cuir
Quelle est votre pointure? Elle est trente-neuf
Est-ce que celle-ci vous vont?

Phoenix

4:34 AM

On the old crappy mobile chat site code formatting appears in Times New Roman.
I can't use the new one because borked badly ok my phone.

Leaky Nun

@Downgoat I've no idea then

ATaco

I have successfully killed my Remote Server.

nice

a-ta.co may be down for a while.

user165474

rip

Phoenix

tbh I mostly expect these kinds of stories from downgoat.

ATaco

Good thing I keep a backup!

It's just old!

user165474

4:37 AM

lol

ATaco

Why is Linux so easy to kill...

Why was I signed in as root is another question.

These questions and more will not be answered.

user165474

you were signed in as root :I

user165474

why :I

ATaco

> These questions and more will not be answered.

user165474

if you are doing random stuff as root then you usually deserve whatever happens to you :D jk :)

ATaco

4:39 AM

Maybe It's time I started doing regular backups...

user165474

use github ffs :I

ATaco

But then I need to keep the server up to date!

Phoenix

Personally I prefer git lab.

Downgoat

@Phoenix :|

Phoenix

Idk what you're replying to because crappy old mobile site

user165474

4:47 AM

10 mins ago, by Phoenix

tbh I mostly expect these kinds of stories from downgoat.

Phoenix

It's true tho.

rm -rf ~ comes to mind

ATaco

rm -rf ~ atleast won't ruin your linux installation.

Phoenix

CMC: given a potentially infinite input stream of text, write the entire input up to the current point at each newline.

Anonymous

@Phoenix Which time?

user165474

sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root /

user165474

4:49 AM

btw don't do this in case you don't know what it is for any non-linux people

ATaco

Also don't do mv /* ~/*

Phoenix

It will be a syntax error for non Linux people

ATaco

It doesn't even ask you if you do that.

user165474

don't do anything with /*.

user165474

@Phoenix true

user165474

4:50 AM

i guess i meant people who don't know bash

Phoenix

To my great disappointment mv /dev/zero ~/ does not write infinite zeroes and just makes a generic, useless empty file.

Anonymous

@Phoenix I'm not sure what you expected. That's not at all how device files work.

Anonymous

Now cat < /dev/zero > ~/zero would in fact do what you think.

Phoenix

That was literally day one of having a Linux.

user165474

me using linux: rm /dev/null

user165474

4:54 AM

a while later: computer freezes for some reason

Anonymous

Based on all of the horror stories I'm hearing about people with Linux, maybe you should have to have a license to use Linux :P

user165474

lol :P

Anonymous

Take a class, prove knowledge, then you get to plug in that Live USB

user165474

idea: just don't mess with important files or things like ~, /, /*, etc

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino Linux newbs don't know that they're important

user165474

4:56 AM

ooh cat /dev/zero > /dev/null

user165474

@Mego true

user165474

Then again, I knew /dev/null is important and I deleted it anyway because I'm dumb :D

Downgoat

@Mego I'm citing this next time someone says use linux

ATaco

It's my Linux, I'll break it how I like.

4

Phoenix

Linux is fun because it breaks. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Jan Dvorak

5:04 AM

I'd prefer a system that doesn't break unless I want it to. Perhaps not even then.

ATaco

Then don't make like taco and use su -c

Phoenix

@Mego why cat < /dev/zero and not cat /dev/zero

What does su -c do

user165474

How to break operating systems:
Linux: mess around without know what you're doing
Mac: idk i'm not a mac user
Windows: install it

Phoenix

s/install/update

user165474

:I no i mean windows always is broken

user165474

5:07 AM

can someone verify if this is right? det(transpose(matrix)) == -det(matrix)

user165474

wait no

Downgoat

@HyperNeutrino are you using :| for your emoitocon for some reason look weird

user165474

det(transpose(matrix)) == det(matrix) because cofactor expansion

Downgoat

:O you are using lowercase L

user165474

Capital i

Downgoat

5:08 AM

Poll which one is best: :I :l :|

user165474

:I

Jan Dvorak

:| is the only symmetric

user165474

strawpoll.me/13024654

user165474

rip the strawpoll font is weird

user165474

For reference: :I :| :l in that order

user165474

5:12 AM

I vote for capital I because when you actually force a face with that expression, the sides of your mouth form small "creases" (for lack of a better word) which is represented by the semi-serif

user165474

Jelly Question, how do I do something like 3 -> [[[1, 1], [1, 2], [1, 3]], [[2, 1], [2, 2], [2, 3]], [[3, 1], [3, 2], [3, 3]]]?

Arjun

Hi

user165474

Hi.

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino p

Anonymous

Oh wait I missed the extra braces

Anonymous

5:16 AM

pœs

user165474

Does't appear to work :(

Anonymous

Are you sure? Click the link

Anonymous

It gives the exact output you specified

user165474

oh well i must be integrating it incorrectly into the rest of my program. my bad. thanks!

user165474

FFS I'VE LOST 11 REP TODAY

Adám

5:20 AM

@Mego Would it be in idea to create a meta post listing PPCG specific abbreviations, and link to that in the room description. I'm thinking things like TNB, CMC, VTC, TIO, etc.

Arjun

What is pseudorandom?

user165474

Random that's not really random.

Arjun

i.e. as much random as possible in the real world?

@Adám VTC?

user165474

Vote To Close

Anonymous

@Adám VTC isn't a PPCG-specific abbreviation (though other places on SE tend to use CV more). But yeah, I think that a meta post would be a good idea. I'll bring up the room description link with the other ROs.

Adám

5:22 AM

@Arjun See?

Wheat Wizard

@Arjun It means that it is deterministic given enough information about the system.

user165474

Respectively, the abbreviations are The Nineteenth Byte, Chat Mini Challenge, Vote To Close, Try It Online, Et Cetera

Anonymous

@Arjun Actual randomness is possible in the real world. Just not in mathematics.

Arjun

@Mego How?

Wheat Wizard

many rngs are seeded by time. If you know the time it was seeded you know the result

@Arjun radiation

Arjun

5:23 AM

Eh?

Radiation?

Anonymous

Nuclear decay is completely random

Wheat Wizard

and other quantum phenomenon are entirely random as far as we can tell

Arjun

Completely random?

Wheat Wizard

Bell's theorem

Bell's theorem is a "no-go theorem" that draws an important distinction between quantum mechanics (QM) and the world as described by classical mechanics. This theorem is named after John Stewart Bell. In its simplest form, Bell's theorem states: No physical theory of local hidden variables can ever reproduce all of the predictions of quantum mechanics. Cornell solid-state physicist David Mermin has described the appraisals of the importance of Bell's theorem in the physics community as ranging from "indifference" to "wild extravagance". Lawrence Berkeley particle physicist Henry Stapp declared...

Anonymous

If you have a sample of a radioactive element, you can estimate how long it will take for half of it to decay. But with just one atom, you have no idea when it will decay.

Arjun

5:25 AM

@Mego Is it proven to be random, or we just don't know?

Anonymous

@Arjun It's been proven. See WW's link to Bell's theorem.

Wheat Wizard

Proven in the physicists sense of the word.

Arjun

@Mego I bet I won't understand almost everything from it. :P

Anonymous

I'll try to simplify it

Anonymous

There are three important properties in physics: locality (stuff is only directly influenced by its immediate surroundings), realism (stuff exists and happens independent of our consciousness and observation), and causality (if event A happened before event B, event B cannot have caused event A).

Anonymous

5:30 AM

Err, that's not a great explanation for realism. Let me try again

Wheat Wizard

The idea of classical physics is that every system can be perfectly calculated by its initial conditions. This means that if some behavior seems random we don't know enough about it. There is some "hidden variable". Bell's theorem shows that certain QM systems cannot be explained with hidden variables, without violating locality. Thus locality, an extremely important and well believed pillar of modern physics, is falsy or there is true randomness in the universe.

I saw a good video of this somewhere

Anonymous

Yeah that's a good explanation

Arjun

Hmmm...

Jan Dvorak

or we live in a multiverse

New Main Posts

0

Q: Make a Number Triangle

The first 3 iterations of the "Number Triangle" (or a variation thereof) are n=1 1 121 11111 n=2 1 121 12321 1222221 111111111 n=3 1 121 12321 1234321 123333321 12222222221 1111111111111 Challenge Given an integer n output the nth iteration of the "Num...

code-golf number sequence

Jan Dvorak

5:31 AM

which is just a populist term for saying that the Universe exists in a superposition of all possible states

Wheat Wizard

@JanDvorak Whether or not there is randomness in the many world hypothesis is more of a philosophical argument

Anonymous

Locality is important because it's very related to special relativity. Locality plus special relativity means that an event at a point A cannot cause a simultaneous event at a different point B (because that would be FTL communication).

Jan Dvorak

@WheatWizard Not quite. Many worlds let you preserve locality (which is nice if you believe in the theory of relativity) at the expense of realism.

Arjun

@JanDvorak Yeah, that sounds cool.

Jan Dvorak

But yes, it leads to the same set of observations as the Copenhagen interpretation

Wheat Wizard

5:34 AM

I just meant that whether you experience randomness is philosophical because we start to break down conceptions of self.

user165474

:o I segfaulted Jelly

Wheat Wizard

Even with the many worlds hypothesis one could argue randomness does occur.

@Arjun youtube.com/watch?v=9rIy0xY99a0

skip to around 8:30

Jan Dvorak

"self" is mostly a linguistic tool.

Wheat Wizard

or watch the whole thing

user165474

8:23

Jan Dvorak

5:36 AM

Many worlds hypothesis doesn't require randomness.

Wheat Wizard

@HyperNeutrino I already linked that.

user165474

I know

user165474

That one starts at about the right time though :P

Wheat Wizard

Oh ok thanks

user165474

:)

Jan Dvorak

5:37 AM

It took me eight seconds to realize why I no longer watch vsauce :-D

Anonymous

Another way around Bell's Theorem is superdeterminism - everything is completely determined, and there is no such thing as free will. People tend to not like that idea, though.

Jan Dvorak

I choose to redefine free will

user165474

will is very expensive

Wheat Wizard

@Mego But people like classicism and that also takes away their free will so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jan Dvorak

The true way to take away free will isn't determinism, but employment.

4

ATaco

5:42 AM

After some stress, a-ta.co is back online.

user165474

yay

Adám

@Mego OK, posted. NMP should pick it up soon… ;-)

user165474

NMP = New Main Posts or New Meta Posts? Which one are you referring to?

Adám

@HyperNeutrino Intentionally ambiguous abbreviation.

user165474

:I

user165474

5:46 AM

Also, why are you linking to SO?

Arjun

@WheatWizard Watched full video. Makes sense. I like VSauce.

Adám

@HyperNeutrino Fixed. Thanks.

user165474

:) np

Adám

@all Please contribute to this.

user165474

lol I'm just going through the protected questions list rn and unprotecting some ones that were autoprotected by Community

Adám

5:51 AM

@HyperNeutrino Hm, we should flag Community for vandalism. It really hurts our community. :-/

Martin Ender

@LuisMendo one thing I forgot to mention. the built-in way to compute the signum is =, which branches based on a value's signum, but it's not particularly golfy

user165474

yes :-/ community hurts our community. 10/10

Arjun

@WheatWizard Should I use "(pseudo)randomly" in my challenge or "randomly" will do?

Wheat Wizard

probably pseudo

Arjun

Okay, thanks :)

ais523

5:52 AM

I'm curious as to what's up with the recent spate of questions deletions of questions by a suspended user; was that some sort of plagiarism issue or the like, or was something else going on?

user165474

We need to overthrow Community. >:-)

Anonymous

@Arjun We assume that people don't have radioactive samples or hardware that can detect quantum tunneling, so specifing pseudorandom seems like overkill

Adám

@Arjun If we don't we should have a meta policy post suggesting that by default, random means random (and with linear distribution if nothing else is stated). How many questions actually require real randomness?

Anonymous

@Adám I think you mean uniform, not linear

New Meta Posts

2

Q: What are the PPCG specific abbreviations?

Newcomers to PPCG are often compelled to ask what many of our abbreviations stand for. Let us list them here so this information always will be easily available.

discussion chat new-users faq-proposed

Arjun

5:53 AM

So, "random"?

only

Adám

@Mego Yes. I'm trying to get dressed to go to work.

ais523

@Mego /dev/random often makes use of hardware randomness sources in practice

Adám

@Arjun No, not until we have that meta post.

@ais523 Really, like what?

user165474

Do I get a badge for unprotecting a lot of posts? c:

ais523

hard drive rotational speed is a well-known one (because most computers have hard drives, and it's affected by random motion of air molecules)

Anonymous

5:55 AM

@ais523 That's not the same as true randomness, though. It just seeds based on uncontrollable (but still deterministic) things like internal temperature and such

Phoenix

But people have ssds now.

ais523

I'd argue they aren't deterministic; quantum theory implies that at least the low bits are true-random

Jan Dvorak

There are hardware keychains that amplify shot noise

@ais523 nah, the platter rotation is determined by newtonian physics, which are deterministic

ais523

@JanDvorak the physics laws themselves are deterministic, but they only produce deterministic outputs given deterministic inputs

and one of the inputs is the position of all the individual air molecules

Jan Dvorak

false

shot noise is non-deterministic

ais523

5:57 AM

I was talking about drive rotation there

Anonymous

IIRC gas molecule movement isn't truly random - the contribution that QM (and therefore true randomness) makes is so small that it doesn't make much of an impact.

ais523

I know that noise diodes are a commonly-used source of randomness, and at least two sources of noise there can count as hardware randomness, I think

(both thermal noise and shot noise)

Phoenix

Brownian motion is nondeterministic right

user165474

but what about random (<-- incorrect use) things decaying randomly (<-- correct use)?

ais523

radioactive decay is believed to be truly random; at least, there's no known way to predict it

only the average rate over time

Jan Dvorak

5:58 AM

Radioactive decay is also a quantum-mechanical phenomenon

Adám

Interesting code golf idea: generate a (truly) random number. You can't outsource it (online, OS, etc.) so you have to access one of HDD rotation speed, internal temp, camera, mic, etc.

ais523

dupe

Adám

@ais523 ?

ais523

it'll take a while to find the actual post

Anonymous

@Adám So what you're saying is that you want this argument to overwhelm the comments on that question

Adám

5:59 AM

@Mego No. Not it the question states what is considered valid.

ais523

51

Q: Improvise a Hardware Random-Number Generator

Your task is to improvise a hardware random-number generator with whatever hardware you have lieing around. Challenge Write a program with the following properties: It prints either 0 or 1 (and nothing else). The output depends on a physical process and not just the internal state of the comp...

popularity-contest random hardware

user165474

yay i finally finished a jelly thing I've been trying for like 10 minutes

Transcript for