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12:07 PM
TIL you can make infinite sequences in Clojure
(iterate (fn [n] (* n n)) 0) creates an infinite sequence of all square numbers, starting from 0
That's so cool
 
How do infinite sequences even work?
 
@KritixiLithos typically by defining some way to get at the nth element knowing n; often the sequence is infinite but any specific element can be retrieved in finite time
 
It's a lazy sequence, so the whole sequence isn't loaded, when you request for an element it is then evaluated
Ninja'd
@ais523 How does Fractran work? I honestly don't understand it
 
@Qwerp-Derp in terms of what it does, or how it's useful?
 
@ais523 For example, how would you make an increment function in Fractran?
So basically in terms of what it does
 
12:15 PM
what it does is fairly simple, each command divides by x and multiplies by y, then loops back to the start of the program (but only if the division by x produces an integer)
increment can't be written if you think of the number as a number
rather, you have to think of the number as a set of factors
 
Hmmm, OK
 
in Fractran programming you typically use prime numbers as variables, the prime power is then the value of that variable
so, say, the number 5 might be represented as 2⁵, you increment that by doubling it to 2⁶
you also reserve a bunch of prime numbers to use as an "instruction pointer"
so, say, you might decide to use 31 (a largish prime) as your "line number" for the increment-variable-2 instruction, and want to run "line" 41 next
that command would be 82/31
 
@ais523 I think you're going into this too advanced
I'm just confused now
 
well, let's move back a bit
our only data storage is one number
 
Because I have no prior information with Fractran and the Esolangs page is just pure confusion for me
 
12:18 PM
if we want to compile into Fractran, this has to encode: a) the values of arbitrarily many variables; b) the location of the instruction pointer
because it's the only data storage we have, so it needs to encode everything
 
Hmmm
 
we encode both using prime factors
each variable becomes a prime; we take the nth power of that prime to encode the fact that that variable has value n
also, each line of code is also associated with a prime number, which we multiply into the number to represent the fact that that line is going to execute next
so a line like [line 31] x2++; goto 41 can be encoded as 2×41 / 31, i.e. 82/31
this clearly only does anything if line 31 is executing (otherwise we wouldn't be able to define by 31), and it adds an extra factor of 2 (i.e. increments variable 2), and multiplies by 41 (i.e. goes to line 41)
this isn't the only way to program Fractran, but it is the simplest
(note that being Turing-complete doesn't require being able to handle any particular I/O format; normally in Fractran you'd require numbers to be entered as a power of 2, the replace-2-with-3 challenge just happened to be suitable for using numbers as integers directly)
 
So from what I currently understand from Fractran
If I input 2 into a program which says 5/2 for example
My output would be 5 right?
and it can't continue any further
Because 5 * 5/2 is not an integer
 
right
if your program was 5/2 2/3, then the output would be 3, because after changing 2 to 5, the second command would match
 
CMC: make a Fractran interpreter
 
12:26 PM
that might make for a good real challenge
especially as the blog post where I found the fractran interpreter I used had lots of people competing to write one
 
True. Should I post it?
 
it's not a dupe, either
I think you should post it (and possibly sandbox it first)
 
Wait, but how would the output be 3?
5 * 2/3 = 10/3, which isn't an integer
 
because the whole program runs again after any replacement
wait, I've screwed up
I meant 5/2 3/5
 
Oh
Yeah now I understand
 
12:29 PM
with 5/2 2/3, the output for any of 2, 3, and 5 is 5
I find Fractran fairly hard to program in because I keep getting the fractions upside-down
 
@fergusq Apparently in Röda [0.5=0.5] gives true
 
@JanDvorak Clojure, 98 bytes: #(loop[f % i 0](if(=(count %2)i)f(let[t(*(nth %2 i)f)](if(ratio? t)(recur f(inc i))(recur t 0)))))
 
1:23 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Stephen Scode-golf quine Generate Your Answer's Markup So, most answers follow the same general format: [language], <#> bytes code here Which is obtained with the following markup: #[language], <#> bytes code here Challenge You must write a solution that, when ran, generates the exact m...

 
^ Very sure that's a dupe but can't find it
 
Anonymous
1:43 PM
@BusinessCat Found it
 
@Mego I like the irony that somebody also commented on that one saying they're sure it's a dupe but can't find the original
Is this doomed to be an endless chain of dupes where one person remembers it being a dupe but can't find the original?
 
I was searching for markup not markdown >_>
 
1:59 PM
…I just realized why it's called Markdown…
 
@Fatalize why?
 
It's just a stupid pun with markup (language)
 
Question: should a != b always be the same as !(a == b)
 
^ you a word
 
@Downgoat Yes.
 
2:02 PM
Well theoretically it's preferable yes
NaN and other quirky things might screw things up unfortunately
 
I was wondering if in certain cases with other classes such as Date you might want them to not have exactly exclusive behavior
ok, yeah
 
At any given time, assuming a and b are both initialized, one of a == b or a != b should always be true, assuming == is a true value comparison in your language
 
When I write long conditionals with ! and == and != I want to be able to refactor it with some de Morgan's laws with guarantees that it works
 
@KritixiLithos Isn't that expected? 0.5 is after all 0.5.
 
Anonymous
@Fatalize Agreed. While it can't be completely avoided due to IEEE 754 weirdness, it should hold as often as possible.
 
2:07 PM
@Mego When I start comparing floats I know in advance that it will be bugged :p
 
@Downgoat NaNs and Infs could make things complicated
 
Anonymous
@Fatalize Yeah, I just assume that the float comparisons aren't going to work right and get pleasantly surprised when they do
 
Wouldn't it be interesting to ban != and == for floats all together?
 
Anonymous
s/!= and == for //
 
Huh?
What is s/!=?
 
2:14 PM
he's saying "Wouldn't it be interesting to ban floats all together?"
sed regex to remove != and == for, so it's just ... ban floats...
 
@KritixiLithos Oh, 0.5=0.5 is false in Röda. That is a bug. Though it is probably not wise to compare floatings anyway because of rounding errors.
 
@fergusq Braingolf takes a good approach to rounding errors: Don't support decimals :D
 
@Mayube So only rational numbers?
 
Yup. Doesn't support strings either, converts the characters to their unicode char code equivalents. Although it does have an operator for converting them back for printing them.
Makes string comparisons pretty much impossible though
 
@KritixiLithos Fixed the bug.
 
2:37 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

1Darco1It's Time for Angles code-golf Sandbox Note: other title ideas include "Time to look at things from a different angle", or playing with the word "Angel(s)" but I appreciate suggestions of other creative and/or funny titles The Task Imagine an analog clock displaying some time HH:MM. You are gi...

 
We need more number-based challenges :P
 
@Mayube you can make those
 
@NathanMerrill questions his sanity
 
@LeakyNun I already did today
Remember? We had a good 5 minute discussion about leading zeroes in base 10 integers because of it
 
2:50 PM
@Mayube alright
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Felipe Nardi BatistaRing me when our cup noodles are ready code-golf I'm currently cooking us some cup noodles, but we're really sleepy at the moment. They'll be finished in 1 minute from now, can you wake me up then? Problem: Write a program or function that waits 1 minute of busy waiting (so that you too doesn'...

 
@Mayube wasn't a good discussion
 
Also, maybe this is a british thing, but good 5 minute discussion doesn't mean it was a good discussion, but that it was a "good 5 minutes", synonymous with "solid 5 minutes". Kind of like saying "The server was down for a good 4 hours".
 
@Mayube I know, I was just joking
 
@Mayube welcome to text-based communication where vocal inflection goes out the window
;)
 
2:57 PM
@Poke Thank you but I've already been welcomed to- oh, I get it :P
 
6 messages moved to Trash
 
@mınxomaτ I had my money on Mego for this but I guess he's not around
 
Hmm, would "Is my string significant" be too similar to my earlier "Is my integer significant" challenge? Basically the same thing, but instead of comparing the sum of the digits, you'd compare the sum of the charcodes
 
3:01 PM
roger that, won't post.
Also I really gotta stop calling em charcodes. Everyone knows what I mean, but they're called ASCII values :P
 
100% hammer as dupe
 
Anonymous
@Poke I go to make a cup of coffee and I miss getting to trash the nonsense :(
 
Heh, I just sat down with a new cup moments before trashing
 
@Mego The nonsense was basically emojis and noise apologies, so it wasn't that good to trash anyways ;)
Also, aren't you getting tired of trashing stuff?
 
Anonymous
@EriktheOutgolfer Never will
 
3:15 PM
@EriktheOutgolfer I imagine trashing chat messages to be similar to deleting old/bad code
feels great
 
Yep
 
Many things feel great but you eventually get tired. Yeah, it does feel so great to relieve yourself from utterly utter NOiSe!!1.
 
Anonymous
We don't let Downgoat trash stuff because he'll end up trashing the entire room :P
 
Only the room? I thought he'd kick the entire crowd too!
 
Anyway, I think we should delete TNB at some point and restart a new one.
 
3:18 PM
Explain why?
I think we shouldn't for the same reason we've stopped retiring sandboxes.
 
Too much trash is collecting
Also in the sandbox, it is very cumbersome.
 
Anonymous
@flawr I'm not really sure what that would accomplish
 
Anonymous
Also we couldn't call it The Twentieth Byte because that name is already taken :P
 
The problem with creating a new room is it would cost us 2 bytes in the URL.
 
Anonymous
And that's absolutely unacceptable
 
3:21 PM
@Mego That one was not entirely serious=)
 
Anonymous
@flawr Ah, ok I was worried it was a genuine suggestion
 
But the one with the sandbox is=)
 
@Mego I don't know if that's what flawr meant.
 
@feersum Let's just rename it to TNB and we save a nother bunch of bytes
 
Anonymous
Yeah the Sandbox is a nightmare
2
 
3:22 PM
@flawr But then it wouldn't have 19 bytes anymore.
 
We don't need the name anyway. chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/240
 
@EriktheOutgolfer and that's a good thing cause golfing is what we do here
 
Anonymous
But we don't really have a good solution for sandboxes. Our current one is more organized (no more sandbox retirement), but is unusable on mobile, and nigh-unusable if you have the rep to see deleted posts.
 
The other solution would be for SE staff to come and nuke posts from orbit, but that would be overly excessive.
 
Proposal: recycle sandbox posts for posted challenges by editing them into entirely unrelated challenges :P
 
Anonymous
3:25 PM
@feersum Then we'd be shoving the nightmares into the edit histories.
 
The real #1 reason that wouldn't work is vote counts.
 
Anonymous
That too
 
Anonymous
It would be nice if votes could be cleared upon deletion, so that there's a blank slate when posts get undeleted
 
Then you could delete-cycle without really changing anything.
 
The sandbox could follow the 4chan thread expiration model. Expired things end up in the trash an archive.
 
3:29 PM
Thread expiration is an absolute nightmare by itself.
 
CMC: Given an int, increment it if it's positive, decrement it if it's negative, and return 0 if it's zero.
 
ah dammit I can't Braingolf that
 
@Phoenix Jelly, 2 bytes: +Ṡ
 
@Phoenix Pyth, 3 bytes: +._
@EriktheOutgolfer if only "sign" in Pyth weren't a biliteral
 
Braingolf really needs a way to tell the difference between 0 and negative integers
 
3:38 PM
Maybe if you increment and then see if the integer is still <1 or not?
 
hmm, good point
ok this is gunna be a mess, brb while I figure it out
 
So, there are 3 possibilities: a > 0, a < 1 and a + 1 = 1, a < 1 and a + 1 < 1.
 
@EriktheOutgolfer yeah but Braingolf also can't do nested ifs, so it's gunna be real tricky. Not impossible though
 
Anonymous
@Phoenix Actually, 3 bytes: ;s+
 
3:41 PM
Nothing beats my Jelly though.
 
Python 2, 19 bytes: lambda n:n+cmp(n,0)
 
Oh my for a moment I thought your golfing had serious issues.
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Somebody'll find an obscure language that has a 1 byte builtin for it
 
@EriktheOutgolfer heh
 
@Phoenix CJam: ri_g+
 
3:43 PM
Actually maybe it isn't possible
 
@BusinessCat I swear the input takes up almost half of your code length
 
The problem with CJam :(
 
maybe I'll add a function to push the sign of the last item on the stack to the end of the stack
 
Has to be a better way.
 
3:47 PM
C, 22 bytes: f(x){x+=(x>0)-(x<0)*2}
 
@Phoenix how?
@EriktheOutgolfer UB!!!11!!!!!!11
 
That's noise.
 
JS, 16 bytes: a=>a+(a>0)-(a<0)
 
Anonymous
There is a message there, but obscuring it in a dumb internet meme isn't useful
 
oh right, there is something wrong with my golfing skill
 
3:49 PM
Idk, bit wise magic
 
@LeakyNun Not Phoenix, but I think that the method used in my answer might help (not the UB part).
 
Braingolf, 3 bytes: !s+ :3
 
Python 3, 22 bytes: lambda n:n+(n>0)-(n<0)
@Mayube could you explain it?
 
Anonymous
And yeah, there's UB there, but there's UB in quite a few of the C golf tricks
 
s pops last item on stack, and pushes it's sign (1 for positive, -1 for negative, 0 for 0), ! stops it actually popping the original item (so it just reads but doesn't remove), + adds the last 2 elements together. Braingolf implicitly prints last item on termination
 
3:50 PM
did you just add a sign function?
 
of course, s was added to Braingolf after the CMC was posted so take it with a pinch of salt
 
alright
 
OK why a CMC was starred?
 
I've seen much worse things getting starred...
 
@Mego what took you so long lol
 
Anonymous
3:52 PM
Hmm?
 
your answer to my challenge
 
Anonymous
I've been working all morning
 
but my question was posted yesterday
 
Anonymous
I was working yesterday too :)
 
Anonymous
Spoiler alert: us adults have to work most days
14
 
3:54 PM
lol sorry
 
@LeakyNun But yeah that's basically what I do with Braingolf's development, i find a challenge it can't do, or has extreme difficulty doing, and add functions to make it easier. I don't want to add a builtin for every possible thing, because we have Mathematica for that, but I want it to be able to, at the very least, complete any number processing challenge relatively easily
 
@Mayube alright
 
Hint: Mathematica isn't free or golfy.
 
It's free as in beer.
Online interpreter.
 
where's the online interpreter?
 
3:59 PM
Like, full-version online interpreter, not limited at all.
 
It's "free" if you buy a Raspberry Pi :D
 
Anonymous
@MartinEnder Just like car keys are "free" if you buy a car
 
Because they ultimately steal get money when you buy a Pi?
 
@EriktheOutgolfer I never said it was either
 
This is more like buying keys and getting a free car.
 
4:01 PM
I should make a language that just maps every Mathematica builtin to a single byte character :P
 
In chrome, launched with --force-device-scale-factor=2, PPCG will get an anti-aliased favicon. That just looks wrong.
 
But you'd have to download the car.
 
You wouldn't steal a car
 
Anonymous
@Dennis Are you implying that we would download a car? :O Such slander!
 
Anonymous
(and yes, I would absolutely download a car)
 
4:02 PM
I think that it's a golfing language or something.
 
mthmtca
 
Anonymous
@Phoenix Sounds like you're trying to talk with your mouth full of marbles
 
No it's a language Legion made.
 
This is for Wolfram Language not Mathematica AFAICT.
 
4:08 PM
aren't they the same thing?
Wolfram Mathematica (usually termed Mathematica, Mathematica software suite) is a mathematical symbolic computation program, sometimes termed a computer algebra system or program, used in many scientific, engineering, mathematical, and computing fields. It was conceived by Stephen Wolfram and is developed by Wolfram Research of Champaign, Illinois. The Wolfram Language is the programming language used in Mathematica. == Features == Features of Wolfram Mathematica include: Libraries of mathematical elementary functions and special functions Support for complex number, arbitrary precision arithmetic...
The Wolfram Language is the programming language used in Mathematica.
Seems like Mathematica is technically the software, while Wolfram is the actual language
 
Mathematica is the full environment, Wolfram Language is only the language.
 
What does Mathematica have that Wolfram doesn't?
 
The lab is a feature-complete implementation which acts the same as mathematica.
 
@fergusq Thanks. It was a very weird bug when I figured it out
 
@Mayube things unrelated to core functionality, like the ability to imbed Wolfram|Alpha.
The language is just a specification.
 
4:27 PM
61
Q: Is Mathematica an Implementation of the Wolfram Language?

Eric BrownI am trying to figure out what the announcement of the Wolfram Language means for Mathematica. Is Mathematica an implementation of the Wolfram Language, or is it something else?

 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

SvetlanaMinimal QWERTY The task -- to output the layout of a QWERTY keyboard: QWERTYUIOP ASDFGHJKL ZXCVBNM But, you will be scored based on the length of your code, and on the number of distinct characters in it. Rules 1) The code must output the three lines of text above (or the text above with op...

 
5:15 PM
@WheatWizard how do you make Wise print characters?
 
@MistahFiggins your wise hint does not give any ascii output
Just 3 numbers
I did say a self ban from contacting in chat about that
 
You can easily compute a letter's ASCII if you know that A is 64 + 1 (or a is 64 + 32 + 1)
I just wanted to verify both at the same time
whatever, no one got it anyways
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

totallyhumanHE DOES NOT COMETH Write a program or function that will, given a string, strip it of zalgo, if any exists. Input Input may be passed via command line arguments, STDIN, or any other standard method of input supported by your language Input will be a string that may or may not contain zalgo ...

 
5:36 PM
 
@Riker The strips about his weird computer problems always crack me up
 
yep
 
@MistahFiggins I just was messing with the tf2 server room, and I thought you were referring to the goat's endless computer problems :p
@flawr already seen taht :p
it's actually quite disturbing to someone who enjoys baked beans
 
5:40 PM
for the lazy:
Netcat (often abbreviated to nc) is a computer networking utility for reading from and writing to network connections using TCP or UDP. Netcat is designed to be a dependable back-end that can be used directly or easily driven by other programs and scripts. At the same time, it is a feature-rich network debugging and investigation tool, since it can produce almost any kind of connection its user could need and has a number of built-in capabilities. Its list of features includes port scanning, transferring files, and port listening, and it can be used as a backdoor. == Features == The original netcat...
 
> Developer(s) *Hobbit*
 
> Too libre! Must destroy!
 
So, everyone but me in my fourth period is taking AP exams. My lunch got extended by ah hour.
 
The actual reason it blocked it is because it can be used as a backdoor by lazy script-kiddies.
 
I don't actually have to be at school today, because I'm "taking an exam" for IB
even though I'm testing in HL, my CS teacher has everyone in the class take the SL
 
user165474
5:44 PM
I have a PD Day today ^-^
 
I'm also in the IB-curriculum
The DP-ers in our school also have exams now
 
Too many two letter acronyms.
 
IB = International Baccalaureate, DP = Diploma Programme, HL/SL = Higher/standard level, CS = crow-scaring
 
@MistahFiggins international baccalaureate, high level, comp sci, standard level, professional development day
DP was new to me
@Phoenix nice, lol
why aren't you taking the AP exams? just didn't want to do that?
 
I did AP calc but didn't take the exam
Because it was expensive and I wanted a free A+
 
5:51 PM
CMC: what languages are you fluent in
 
Anonymous
PD = Personal development?
 
Spoken/programming?
 
user165474
@Mego PD = Professional Development
 
@Riker Processing
 
user165474
Sorry, wrong ping.
 
5:52 PM
@Riker german?
 
I meant both spoken and written :p
@flawr so both answers are acceptable @KritixiLithos
@flawr how different is swiss german from germany-german?
is it just the accent?
 
@Riker No, quite a bit stronger.
I mean even in swiss-german there are so many strong dialects that you sometimes have difficulty understanding eachother.
There is also no grammar.
 
Therefore Switzerland should ditch German and switch to French fully
just sayin'
 
@flawr ah ok
 
You mean swiss-french?
 
5:55 PM
@flawr "stickenwurdstogether"
 
no, no French. No octante or other ridiculous things
 
@Fatalize not biased at all
 
Absolutely not
 
@Fatalize Because quatre-vingt dix-huite makes it so much easier
 
@Fatalize let's ask TuxCopter, he's another unbiased judge
 
5:56 PM
@flawr But at least you don't sound Swiss, or even worse Belgian :p
 
@Riker How's that different from hyphenation in other languages?
 
user165474
@TauNeutrino Welcome to StackExchange! :) Once you get 20 reputation, you can chat. Hope you enjoy your stay!
 
Is that your sock?
 
@Fatalize I like that swiss is still above belgian
 
@KritixiLithos nope, check the proflie
 
user165474
5:57 PM
No. It's my brother.
 
user165474
My sock would be "HyperBot".
 
user165474
Which I am making soon, but not right now.
 
I come from a region next to Switzerland, I guess in North France it's probably swapped between belgians and swiss
(swisses?)
(swissi?)
 
@Fatalize I'd actually vote for romansh if there should only be one language. But then again, even they have 3 sublanguages.
@Fatalize schweizer
@Fatalize But I fear if you'd actually hear me talking french, you'd probably wish for me to change back to swiss german.
 
which one is smaller: average byte count of jelly programs in PPCG or reddit server uptime in days
reddit is down again
 
6:00 PM
reddit is up here?
 
here too
 
> Partial Outage -- redditstatus.com
 
I'm quite sad that this name was wasted
4D (4th Dimension, or Silver Surfer, as it was known during early development) is a relational database management system and IDE developed by Laurent Ribardière. 4D was created in 1984 and had a slightly delayed public release for Macintosh in 1987 with its own Programming Language The 4D product line has since expanded to a SQL back-end, integrated compiler, integration of PHP, and several productivity plug-ins and interfaces. Some of the plug-ins created by 4D include 4D Write (a word processor), 4D Draw (to draw shapes), 4D View (somewhat like a spreadsheet, but with extra functionality) and...
 
reddit search source code: if(true) { crash }
 
^
 
6:01 PM
> silver surfer
 
error: expected ‘;’ before ‘}’ token
 
yes
 
I guess even calling crash causes an error.
ninja'd=)
 
that gave me bad flashbacks
 
@quartata when you first learned programming?
 
6:02 PM
no not that
What Riker linked
 
user165474
@KritixiLithos Also, I wouldn't say welcome to my sock. That would just be weird. :P
 
@Riker Befunge-93/98, Wise, Java, English, Spanish, Del|m|t, and maybe hexagony.
 
did not expect that
 
where is that from?
 
6:14 PM
who the hell uses go
 
google
 
Alice is on that list :P
 
@KritixiLithos Not that Alice
 
45 Alice
...ninja'd
 
user165474
lol I told Smokey to ping me here anytime it detected something bad on codegolf about 2 days ago and it's never pinged me here. yay ^-^
 
6:20 PM
it has pinged you on SO, I saw that, but I don't think on ppcg
ppcg doesn't get that much spam
mostly bad questions
 
user165474
Yeah. Smokey won't detect SO-style questions on PPCG because they're not spam, just bad for our site.
 
@HyperNeutrino Because it can only ping you in rooms it's already in
 
user165474
Oh.
 
user165474
How do I get it here? Though actually, having it here might be a bad idea, but it might be helpful since that way it will report PPCG issues here.
 
it's prolly easier just to let it ping you in charcoal
cc @flawr but he's already seen it methinks
 
6:32 PM
What is it with flawr and plane crashes?
4
 
kek
 
@MistahFiggins I think it's -A you can use -h for help
 
@JanDvorak Röda, 125 bytes Try it online!
 
6:48 PM
@KritixiLithos that took a while :p
 
@Riker really cool performance=)
 
yep
"sadly" the plane didn't crash
 
yes, really unfortunate
 
@Riker I was working on it since I saw the CMC, so many bugs
 
lol
 
...of course -_-
 
TIL in Chrome Ctrl+Shift+W doesn't close the current tab, it closes the current window. RIP
At least I know about Ctrl+Shift+T
 
@betseg That's a standard key combination. It's in FF and IE too.
I also expect it's in Opera.
 
too close to Ctrl+W IMO
 
Here's a more "realistic" interpreter of Fractran: Try it online!
 
6:56 PM
what OS are you using?
 
windows I'd assume
cmd-shift-w does the same thing on mac
 

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