@ChristopherEstep do you not agree that most equality measures have had to be 'forced' on society at large? I'm not saying this is a case where that needs to happen, but objecting to being forced is no reason to attack the idea itself.
@M.A.R. Wel how one acts within and around the workplace is a matter of values and opinions. Where we filter questions based on the value of the qeustion and aswers have.
@M.A.R. what site are you speaking of btw? since HNQ destorys most Images except puzzle but then again thats just one odd site all together
Honest question: Can you really expect to make statements like "virtue signalling","keep that gender nonsense off this site","Diversity losers", "So fucking sick of the gender crusade" and not expect someone to comment back about it? And then they're the bad person for being too sensative?
I've tried to give good faith here, but at some point a person needs to step back and realize that they are not as open-minded as they think they are about an issue.
@DoritoStyle No, but then again I don't think that was ment to be as such. However I see the Point where someone would say just dont as one has yet to read between the lines.
@DoritoStyle I would love some People to take that Point, as I am currently getting a bit tired of that with certain People as well, but then again troles will be troles, haters will be haters and if Trump Fails then we've seen the biggest trole fail as per usual
I'm also a bit "sensitive" about the word troll at this point. I think it needs to go the way of "reputation whore", but that's a whole other discussion :)
"troll" once was a pretty well defined term and mostly stating a fact, but now that universities ban words like "female", "troll" is probably gender fluid
@RichardU is someones actions are bad, they can be called out on what they should do differently. If all that can be said is to label them a troll, then that's resorting to insulting their person, which is strictly disruptive and insulting behavior.
@RichardU how would you describe someone who downvotes you after losing an discussion and afterwards feels insulted for calling him out on his true intent? Which in my case is a sour loser.
@PlasmaHH it's not constructive because it attempts to debase my assumption that calling someone a troll is an objective insult, which I think is not a claim you can easily refute.
well, you can't expect people to keep up with the ever changing definition of words anyways, people will mostly use the words they grew up with as meaning those things they grew up with
@RichardU that statement seems to be based on the predicate that you should be allowed to be offensive, and I disagree wholeheartedly. SE is a constructive community with no room for such shenanigans.
Just a polite reminder that the "be nice" rules extend to Chat. Anything that can't be said respectfully has no place here. If this grumbling and flagging carries on I'll just freeze the room, drop the mic and walk away.
@RaoulMensink If you click on their avatars/names, they also have a diamond beside their name. Moderators anywhere on Stack Exchange are moderators in all chat rooms. (Maybe with an exception for the Stack Overflow chat? That one operates on its own server.)
@DoritoStyle in the future, if you need to get moderator attention, would you mind using the moderator flag instead of the chat flag? That way, you won't ping every single 10k+ user in chat.
::sigh:: @RichardU I ignored you here before, but after some productive discussion on the main site I decided to give it a second chance. I see now that you are either not interested in or not capable of productive debate in chat, so I'm going to take the high-road and ignore you again. I am telling you here since you seem to have missed my private room last time.
@RichardU If somebody takes your message as an attack, maybe that's you, maybe that's them. If multiple people take your messages as an attack, then that shifts the balance of probabilities in favour of "you".
@RaoulMensink That's an odd way to frame "some people were arguing in a room, and enough flags got raised that multiple moderators had to arrive and tell people to stop, and I am pointing out some things that are going wrong here."
@doppelgreener yes, which would mean you could leave it to an mod would it not? Whom respectivly came here for an reason and are probeply more capable of handling this. Honestly with my Class 4 Autism and the fact someone been bugging me since last week here doesnt help, but still seems to me like a valid question.
It's possible to disagree on the internet. there are respectful and disrespectful ways to do this - making the argument about the other person almost always will end poorly in that regard
@RichardU Ok, sincere answer: your responses to DoritoStyle, such as the one a moderator said was not helping, appear in all ways to be attempts to mock an individual, make light of their stance, and stress them out and be unpleasant toward them as an individual. One would easily consider that to be in the direction of verbal bullying, and a concise word for it is calling it an attack.
@RichardU And just speaking as a (hopefully, somewhat) neutral observer with (possibly) relevant personal experience, I consider your language, generally "likely to elicit a non-constructive response from most people". If you want, at a better time, I'll walk you through specific things I've noticed and my own thoughts on how and why they tend to lead to non-desired outcomes.
@Kaz I would actually appreciate that. At times I am better than others. I do not know when I am actually saying inappropriate or when people are just saying I am.
I tend to believe what I am told and have been suckered into being silenced in the past.
It feels like there's a million rules that you're just supposed to know despite the fact that nobody ever writes them down or can even articulate them in a useful, descriptive, way.
@Kaz Same for me, I was misdiagnosed, but actually received good treatment for the symptoms. My greatest difficulties are how to de-escalate a situation.
For example, in a conflict, I end up matching blow for blow and have a hard time walking away.
I'm such a mimic that I even do voices.
So, again, that includes bad behavior, only sometimes I don't know it's bad when I'm doing it.
hmm, I mean I am constantly running into People that are "troling" and refer to their own Definition of how to use up and down votes. Where I could refer to multiple meta Posts however that doesnt help since person X does not read.
@RichardU unfortunately the chat removes flagged posts, otherwise I could recommend you review the horrific things that I said that lead to suspension...
A change of subject (or dropping the old one) is usually a good start. Continuing to talk about the same thing (even if they are) usually ends up with some sort of circular argument and things bubbling back up again. That seems especially likely if you can't judge the tone of the other person.
I know you've said you feel like you've been duped into being censored by things like that, but just weigh up how important it really is that you respond.
Getting the last word in doesn't mean anything here. It's just a chat room.
That said, a conversation about the difficulties ASD sufferers face is interesting. It just needs to be done delicately where people (everybody, not just you) aren't making baseless assertions about other people and are stepping back if they can see it going south.
Keeping it at the level of discussing the ideas, and not the people you're discussing them with, is also important. If someone starts engaging with me and questioning my character as opposed to discussing the matter we're engaging in (whether it's a contentious topic or not), I'll take that as a sign I should disengage.
I've been learning from a friend that there's some speech patterns that can sound like we're talking about the other person even when we don't mean to! Such as the tendency to use "you" in examples or etc.
@doppelgreener (I have no way of knowing, but) I imagine it's like being colour blind (or hell, even just completely blind). There's a whole other world that everyone else can see but you can't. You know it exists, because people keep talking about it, and respond to it, and interact with it in ways you can try and reason about. But that's all you have. Superficial, surface reasoning.
@Kaz @doppelgreener @DoritoStyle For example: I have seen alot of People such as @ChristopherEstep comment on their own question with a sarcasticish tone to refer to the helpfull comment they didnt leave on their question why he recieved a downvote. I would love there to be a post on meta about it where we can just say somethine like: "Thank you for your downvote, Please read this and help me improve my post." When someone doesnt leave context on why he downvoted.
@PlasmaHH Every communication method transports a fraction of the Information, as the effort required to do so properly is to much regardless of method.
@Kaz I can sort of imagine that. As someone who's grown up with general anxiety (which includes social anxiety) there's a lot of social dimensions I've been totally ignorant to until I had someone show or tell me something new available in socialising, and then I go "oh, huh, I guess I can do that too" and learn to socialise in that new way, pay attention to new things I never did, etc.
Before that, those dimensions were things I never even considered or thought about because, well, anxiety doesn't exactly encourage you to get out there and master how socialising works. It made me more preoccupied with myself (and my surviving situations) and introverted, when masterful socialising seems to be largely about putting oneself aside and focusing on the other person. I initially only learned the things that helped me get past a situation intact.
@RaoulMensink sure, but in chat it is much worse than e.g. in personal communication, which is what humans have evolved to do. you are losing so much, voice, body language, gestures etc.
@RaoulMensink I think that's less a matter of trolling and pointing to one's own definition, more a matter of everyone has their own interpretation of how voting works -- and some people's versions are poorly matched to the general average understanding.
@PlasmaHH Yeah. Most of communication is body language and tone of voice; the whole "how you say it, not what you say" thing. Even sitting quietly with someone is communication. Chat loses a lot of that, and makes misunderstandings very easy.
@RaoulMensink that assumption is based usually on a lot of training and for the majority of people conveys as much information as the words. And it doesn't even need to be such an unambiguous gesture as flipping the bird...
People take issue with, or get confused about, downvotes with no feedback or comments often enough on RPG Stack Exchange that a moderator decided to open a meta question we could point to:
@doppelgreener I just feel like some People Need to remove their stick and see that they Need to meet someone in the middle. For example I refuse to downvote answers on meta without speaking to the one who post it first. I don't demand everyone to follow this, but would expect one would answer me with respect instead of going in circles.
An answer has multiple downvotes but nobody has left a comment explaining what's wrong with the answer or why they downvoted. Why hasn't anyone explained their downvote?
@doppelgreener don't mention misunderstandings, I have an open trench war going on with another department here about how we are supposed to contact them before we implement something when we misunderstood the specifciation
@PlasmaHH my stroke was caused by a previous job. This company is known for not firing people, but making them miserable so they quit as a way to avoid paying Unemployment insurance.
@doppelgreener I think I lost my sanity at their requirement to go through the changelog of the specification to find which multiple installments of a specific requirement is the latest and to ignore the other ones..
@doppelgreener yes, they were trying to push me over the edge. They ended up pushing too far. Also, I had to re-learn all of my filters. I would literally vocalize every last thought I had, without filtering it.
Imagine if every intemperate thought you ever had just popping out of your mouth
@PlasmaHH I am in the middle of re-engineering a project which used MS excel as a database, relying only on formulas and NO VBA code.... I am not in my happy place
@RichardU as long as the replacement is a sound design, I usually don't care how horrific the old system is, it is always a good feeling to nuke old crap from orbit... if you can... but stuff that people do on excel... * shudder * did you know that m$ has headless excel servers that just "run" excel sheets and computations in that?
and that basically 80% of the "logic" in financial systems is done via excel sheets?
@RaoulMensink yep. and what makes it worse is that most of the formulas are outdated and the REAL process is in the head of the guy who's doing the calculations
@PlasmaHH Oh, I know it, I
I've worked for the financials.
1/3 of the content of a major financial publication named after a street in the NY financial district is put out via MS Excel macros
and the best I ever encountered is a "data feed" that is manually edited excel files manually emailed and then they can't understand why it doesn't work on your side then it works totally fine on their side because they have the files referenced in certain formulas....
@RichardU I've seen Accounting spreadsheets full of numbers like "European Division - Sub division X - Revenue: £X Billion ". 99% formulas. Used to run a billion dollar corporation. Completely normal in the world of finance.
Interestingly, none of the global banks I have worked for did this, @RichardU. Everything important is on the mainframe. Admittedly that's probably only because Excel can't scale enough :-)
I'd like to figure out some ways to not get drawn in, react slower and
more thoughtfully, defuse, deflect, instead of reacting fast and being
seen as combative. I'd also like some ways to call out and discourage
what I see as bad behavior and disrespect. How do I do it?
My general advi...
@RoryAlsop we often get the request to build Support in System x for importing proper tables. Shows example in Excel. with about 10000 Excel functions we cant use then blames bad Software. Fun times :D
@RoryAlsop funny thing is that around here for a lot of things the thinking is "oh, nobody uses it anymore, so demand is low, so lets not pay nearly as much and wonder why nobody wants to work here"
@doppelgreener there was a time when on SE the avatars would not load correctly (including mine), and I was tempted to ask a question on meta and then giggle about people not realitzing that they fixed it..
phew, for a second, I panicked because my reporting model's figures for this year's revenues were half of the totals for the raw data. Then I remembered that the raw data covers 2 years ^^
our ticket system has a funny feature of making a ticket invisible in your listings until a specific date... I have a few gems in there, among it being a ticket that asks for employing measure to make sure that a certain process will never have bugs again
Most men know that sometimes a stream of pee can go in some unwanted direction, which can cause problems like dirty clothes or a dirty floor. Is there a way to prevent this from happening, or maybe a precaution to take?
There's a part of me that is tempted to go over there and object on gender grounds saying, "Not all men have penii* and just because you have one doesn't mean you're a man!" *penii being the new plural :)
Wow, I just lost 500 points (and counting) due to rep cap. It wasn't even a good answer to begin with. So I am undecided if HNQ is a good or a bad thing.
I was at work when I read the question, so I thought let me write something quickly and improve it later in the evening from home. By the time I left work, I had already hit the rep cap.
An answer has multiple downvotes but nobody has left a comment explaining what's wrong with the answer or why they downvoted. Why hasn't anyone explained their downvote?
I'd like to figure out some ways to not get drawn in, react slower and
more thoughtfully, defuse, deflect, instead of reacting fast and being
seen as combative. I'd also like some ways to call out and discourage
what I see as bad behavior and disrespect. How do I do it?
My general advi...
Most men know that sometimes a stream of pee can go in some unwanted direction, which can cause problems like dirty clothes or a dirty floor. Is there a way to prevent this from happening, or maybe a precaution to take?
The Water Cooler
The Water Cooler