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5:05 AM
morning
 
 
7 hours later…
12:06 PM
@Kaz I check SharePoint se regulary, I havent seen an 40+ question there regardless of how far I go back :D
Then again the average user had like 0.024 votes per dag last time i checked the stats
 
Kaz
@RaoulMensink Yeah. I spent most of the past year in the part of CR. The highest voted question this year is at 14 votes.
I'm not sure what the overall stats for CR are, but they're not big.
 
Well. We are at really specific sites. In which Workplace is a really bad comparison :)
 
12:27 PM
@RaoulMensink last one was in 2013 (June), so 3 years ago :)
talking about the 100+... there were a few 40+ this year :)
 
@bilbo_pingouin Hmm interresting
 
Votes on Workplace are more of a popularity contest. Sadly, there's some virtue signaling going on as well.
 
True, but seeing as I read alot of comments saying if I could upvote I would. Just makes me sad
 
12:55 PM
I did an edit for tone of a question where it was already rated -5 in under 10 minutes. Just by changing the tone, it shot up to over 40. I did not change the substance of the question.
 
Well, that was a good edit ^^
 
Maybe, but should it have made that much of a difference? Is tone that much more important than substance?
 
1:12 PM
the possible sadder point yet, is that people may have started upvoting because you edited the question...
 
@RichardU Well, I have seen alot of answers where just the tone regardless of substance could change wether the answer is good or not
I even had one of mine deleted because People couldnt handle me giving a harsh but truthful tone on a question. Where even the OP commented: "He is absolutely right though".
@bilbo_pingouin Thats why I dislike the rep Display. Sure it has its merits, but alot of People go he has 500rep he should know better. T_T
 
1:28 PM
@bilbo_pingouin I think that can cut both ways though. I've noticed that some of us have minor hate-doms (as opposed to fandoms), especially if we have strong opinions.
 
@RichardU possibly. But when high number of votes are implied, it's more likely that people not knowing how strong of an opinion you might have are attracted to the shiny gold badges...
 
Politics also affect votes in workplace. For example, I can guarantee that any answer I give to a question on "diversity" will get hit hard with down votes that have anything to do with the quality of my answer, but with the fact that I bring up unpopular points. I accept that as fact and don't really care about the people petty enough to vote based on politics
 
and the few who 1) know you, 2) hold some grudge and 3) would bother voting on it... are probably not making any significance
 
@bilbo_pingouin yeah, and I don't care about them anyway
Honestly, I wouldn't have given such high votes to some of my more upvoted answers. I don't post for popularity
@bilbo_pingouin I am also not afflicted with a sense of importance to think that I am on the minds of more than a handful of people.
 
which is what I meant.
and I would not expect all of those to actually downvote a post based on your sole name
 
1:48 PM
Damn. @enderland keeps popping up in HNQs, I guess I can bury any plans of being the second legendary ;)
 
Talking about popularity @Lilienthal :P
@bilbo_pingouin I geuss that depends on the Name wouldnt it?
 
@RaoulMensink I may be naive, but I believe that enough people here are responsible enough NOT to downvote a post just to spite its author.
Note that it has to be people who have a grudge against someone, so not a HNQ-user...
And usually frequent users have a higher tendency to separate the post from the author
Or they may just ignore the post if they are really feeling bad about that author. And only a few would actually downvote.
 
That might be true for perhaps 90% of the frequent users. 10% would still just hate on an author for loseing an argument
 
yeah hate the author is fine, but enough to bother to dv ?
 
There have been Serial dv's
 
1:57 PM
And let's say for the sake of the argument, that some user (we were discussing Richard before, but it could be anyone). To have an argument, they'd have to meet here. So about what 20 users might "know" that particular user? Out of which, for a dividing case, 10 might be less than impressed.
And if we keep your 90% thing from before, that'd make a single person downvoting based on the author name only.
On a post with 40+ upvotes, that won't make any significant change
@RaoulMensink yeah that would be the one... which is often plain stupid, as that pattern is often picked up on, and would be rewarded with a free ticket to ban-world.
 
How could it do damage at all? Like I care if i get a -20 answer. I won't cary that axe with me
 
that was a digression to RichardU comments that having a fancy name as an editor might go both ways... I was asserting that the positive largely outweight the negative (statistically)
but of course, you're right, we're talking internet points... not particularly life threatening
 
All I care for is to be able to answer and upvote. Other than that I got a fancy Byte next to my Name.
 
Kaz
Turns out my posts/upvotes follows the 80/20 rule.
 
4 Posts 1 upvote?
 
2:11 PM
@Kaz up/downvote ?
 
Is it naive to hope to get a job in IT/computer science in a foreign country where English is used as a fresh graduate? I have work experience in the field from summers and from part time during semesters and have done two exchange semesters during my studies. Also, my studies in my home country has been in english the last 3 years.
 
upvotes for answers/question?
 
Kaz
@NiclasJonsson Depends on the job, and the country, and your english proficiency.
(The easiest way to find out is to just start applying for roles and see what people say)
 
@NiclasJonsson depends if the Country you are going has a high rate of english speakers
And ofcourse how you write and prenounce english could be "funny"
 
@Kaz Yes, I realise there must be a hight rate of english speakers where I'm applying. I think what I'm wondering is if there is a red flag to hire none local people because of extra adminstation work, visa, etc!
 
Kaz
2:17 PM
@NiclasJonsson Seriously, we don't know. Probably some places will, some won't. The only way to find out is to try and see what happens.
 
2:46 PM
@NiclasJonsson I would think that you'd want to apply where English is a first language, as opposed to just there being a lot of people that speak English. People won't be inclined to speak English just for you.
 
@ChristopherEstep I am Kind of happy I am not the only one thinking so.
 
I personally wouldn't apply for work in Montreal for the simple reason that as an English-only speaker I'd be hampered. Sure, most in my experience are bilingual there, but it would make me stand out in a not-so-positive way.
 
3:07 PM
Meh, I would learn the local language :D. I havent seen learning another language being harmful so why not.
 
well sure. But without knowing it first, your chances are greatly reduced.
 
True, but I ment you know the language at a respectable Level, but compared to someone who has it as his first language you are terrible
I did an intership in Germany and improved my German in that time, so that I would be able to get my current Job.
 
@RaoulMensink after a certain age, you lose the ability to learn a new language well. I'd have to pick up a refresher course on German.
 
True, but for example what would you advice someone around the Age of 25 who hasnt learned the language yet, but is working in lets say Italy and has expressed that he has Problems communicating with his co-workers in between work.
 
3:23 PM
@RaoulMensink I'd tell them to listen to local radio and TV, and attempt to socialize as much as possible, avoid their native language and when having difficulty, ask someone who knows the native language to tell you how to say something, as opposed to relying on them as a translator. That's how my family learned English.
 
3:57 PM
Immersion is the best way, when possible. I agree. My daughter's fluency in French went up dramatically when she moved to Montreal for grad school.
 
Ditto for my French when moving, immersion really helps a long way. Lessons only give so much, but until you have to use it day in and day out, it's not always easy to keep the practice up
 
4:23 PM
0
Q: How do I ask my manager at summer internship, if they are looking to hire this year?

DS RI have not been in contact after the internship, i.e. 4 months. I did not keep in touch, as I am kind of private person. But asking now, I don’t want to look selfish.. Also, if I do ask, whom should I approach ? There are 3 options My direct mentor - I had maximum interaction with him, Mid-leve...

this is a dup right? I swear we've had this before
 
5:00 PM
Ask Chad or gnat. I'm sure they'll say it is. :)
 
5:41 PM
@enderland We have several on that topic
Closest one I could find:
 
5:58 PM
@Lilienthal those are some weak answers though, hrm
 
isn't there a meta question about that? It seems that I remember a discussion about the quality of answers being irrelevant to whether an question qualifies as a duplicate.
 
I'm somewhat pragmatic about that (shhhhh don't tell anyone)
 
Just sit back and let gnat find one. He'll find a way to make it a duplicate of a question about the break room
 
I actually agree about answers. I think they should be considered when marking a dupe. Otherwise there's no practical way for them to get an answer to a question. Most people can't offer bounties because they're new.
 
6:16 PM
Me too. Some good questions just don't get attention, then a dupe (or near dupe) comes along and starts taking off, only to be marked a dupe while getting better answers than the post that it is supposedly a dupe of
 
 
1 hour later…
7:20 PM
speaking of political posts....
0
Q: Need to let go an employee, employee threatens to sue for racial discrimination

Jeff QuickI need to let go an employee who reports directly to me. I had brought this up to them recently, and they got defensive and threatened to sue for racial discrimination, while we are both African Americans, my manager is white, and this employee blames my manager such that they are threatening to...

 
More "If you support Trump, you're a racist".
That bothers me. When folks engage in political discussions on a question instead of trying to answer it.
 
to be honest, seen from far away, I am not sure I'd have many positive adjectives to describe a Trump supporter.
though admittedly, racist wouldn't be the first that'd come to my mind
@RichardU that is of course a problem
 
@bilbo_pingouin there aren't enough die-hard racists with strong enough convictions to move the needle either way. Eugenicists, though, that's a different matter.
My own politics confound people. Republicans think I'm a Democrat and Democrats think I'm a Republican. I suppose that's what happens when you are not an ideologue.
 
reminds me of another user of SE :)
 
Kaz
7:29 PM
@bilbo_pingouin That's 100 Million (or so) people you're generalising about there.
 
The manager probably should have kept their political convictions out of the office in the first place. That's just a good rule of thumb to avoid friction.
 
Kaz
If you told me I had to vote for either Trump or Clinton, I'd probably vote Trump.
 
I am not familiar enough with the American politics, but I pretty much doubt that 100 Millions people will vote for Trump...
@Kaz interesting... why that?
 
Making any sort of assumption about voter numbers like that would be pretty useless. We have polls to get at least some idea beforehand, but only the election day totals will matter in the end.
There are many, many people who would simply never vote for Clinton, even if it meant voting for someone they knew nothing about.
 
Kaz
@bilbo_pingouin To be fair, probably much closer to 50 Million will actually cast a vote for him.
But even in a landslide, where the democrats win 60/40, that still leaves 40% of 125 Million (= 50 Million) voting for him.
 
7:34 PM
@Kaz yep that's what I would expext
@Kaz yeah I gathered that the participation is usually quite low, and somehow I have the feeling it won't improve this time
 
"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right..." Bob Dylan
 
Kaz
And, to summarise my own views on the topic: They're both unpalatable choices, but I think Trump has a better chance of better long term outcomes (with, admittedly, a better chance of worse long term outcomes as well).
 
@ChristopherEstep if there's not already a parody video using that song about this election then there needs to be.
 
stop making me agree with you. :)
 
@ChristopherEstep surely Stealer's Wheel, no?
 
Kaz
7:38 PM
But the point I'm trying to make is that assuming anything about a group as diverse as 50 Million people is not a particularly useful frame of reference.
 
damn, I always do that. You're right.
 
re: earlier conversation about votes. I'm inclined to agree that the larger the exchange, the more of a popularity contest voting becomes. Even outside of the poster, once an answer picks up momentum it becomes a vote magnet and other answers further down the page get buried.
 
@Kaz to the rest of the world, Trump is much more terrifying than Clinton. Clinton comes across as general politician (corrupt, self-centred etc) whereas Trump is an empowered buffoon with an active racist streak a mile wide
as well as being corrupt and self-centred
 
I think a reasonable way to look at it is the VP's followed by who's likely to die first. I think Trump's healthier.
 
lol
 
Kaz
7:39 PM
@RoryAlsop Funny, I actually have the complete opposite impression. I think he knows exactly what he's doing, and is simply saying and doing whatever he thinks will win him the election.
 
I dunno, that tan probably isn't doing him any favors as far as skin cancer is concerned.
 
So the key to have either of them in the white house the shortest time would be to elect clinton who will die before trump.
 
@ChristopherEstep I like it
although I could imagine Trump, if he ever got elected, would be dead faster, just because assassins
 
Kaz
@RoryAlsop I dunno, the Secret Service has a pretty good track record this century.
 
I'm voting on Saturday and I'm not voting for either of them, though I know it won't do any good.
Yeah, it's been 35 years since a president was shot.
 
7:42 PM
When's the last time one died [of natural causes] in office? Harrison?
derp, Kennedy
Apparently: Warren Harding (1921-23). I guess healthcare has gotten a lot better since then as well. I doubt that Clinton's health is a big concern, just another popular tabloid gossip.
 
@DoritoStyle and right to the offensive, eh? How am I not surprised
 
How is that offensive @RichardU? You seem like you just have a bone to pick.
 
I heard that there are two other guys running as well... well one guy (Johnson? or something like that) and one woman... so you could pick someone else
 
@ChristopherEstep I'm not voting for the left nut or right nut. I prefer the johnson
 
Yeah, I actually have to agree with Dorito on this one (that's twice). That's not offensive.
 
Kaz
7:45 PM
Personally, I think a Trump presidency *could* be the closest thing we've ever had to a government that responds, instantly and completely, to the will of the people.
 
@ChristopherEstep the reference of Kennedy's death
 
Considering your accusations of me being a troll, the fact that I'm not taking the bait for Clinton vs. Trump is basically an olive leaf.
 
Kaz
Or, you know, it could be nazi germany.
I consider that outcome unlikely. But the idea of a president who will say and do whatever the public at large seem to want is an attractive one.
 
I'm not baiting, honestly.
And I'll actually be voting for Johnson, for all the good it does.
 
@ChristopherEstep sorry, i didn't mean to imply that anyone was actively baiting, just that it's low-hanging fruit for any self-respecting troll :)
 
7:46 PM
@ChristopherEstep no, DS is baiting, again.
 
how so?
 
@DoritoStyle no comment
 
@RichardU, I asked, then answered for myself, the question about who was the last president to die in office, since presidential death was already brought up.
 
@ChristopherEstep just for me to follow... that's the guy who did not know what Aleppo was right?
 
how so?
Bilbo, yes.
My feeling on that is it doesn't impair his decision making ability to not know something. The other 2 would just lie or make something up.
 
7:49 PM
@ChristopherEstep I agree. "I don't know" is a far better answer than the BS the others talk
 
Agreed!
 
@ChristopherEstep yeah apart from that point, my take on the guy, is only through what Trevor Noah presented the other day... so not necessarily objective
 
"I'm not sure what I'd do about Aleppo but I'll hire the best advisors in America. You watch. They'll be great. The best. "
 
Unfortunately, a lot of people these days seems to view any concession as a sign of weakness.
 
@DoritoStyle agreed
 
7:50 PM
@ChristopherEstep honestly, that's 100% the best plan in that case.
 
@bilbo_pingouin He was a 2 term governor, he's not a narcissist and he's not corrupt. That makes him the better choice imho.
 
@DoritoStyle I once recommended a man be hired because he answered "I don't know" on the technical interview. The honesty was refreshing
 
I always say I don't know in interviews if I don't. Guessing makes you look stupid.
 
@ChristopherEstep intellectual tap-dancing around a subject is even worse
 
@RichardU Excellent, that reminds me of one of my favorite parables from 'The Richest Man in Babylon'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Richest_Man_in_Babylon_(book)#A_part_of_all_you_earn_is_yours_to_keep

Basically, don't take advice from someone who isn't an expect, but do seeks expects to get advice.
 
7:54 PM
What annoys me is if I'm looking at a problem and I give up and say I really don't know when they say "just keep looking" or try to draw something out of me.
That's the point I decide the interview is over as far as I'm concerned.
I've done that a few times.
I'm also not afraid to say "I don't think this is going to be a good fit, so rather than waste everyone's time I think we should just end the interview right here."
 
I wasn't able answer all the soft requirements for my current position, but I knew how to read the man pages, and here I am.
Ugh, I think we'll all just make ourselves sad hoping for honesty in the current political climate, at least for high office like PotUS
 
Honesty? I'd settle for a lack of blatant and unrepentant corruption.
 
Kaz
@ChristopherEstep So, Trump? He is many things, but (obviously) corrupt doesn't seem to be one of them.
And it's much harder to buy off a guy who's already a billionaire.
 
No, his problem is he's a narcissist with a penchant for revenge. "I'll sue" is his reaction to everything. But what about when he has more options than "I'll sue"?
 
I don't think it's fair to paint Trump as non corrupt. His history is in private business with highly debatable success and integrity.
And without digging into his tax returns, it's too early to claim he never accepted kick-backs, participated in nepotism, or any other number of things. He's an unknown quantity at best.
 
8:09 PM
@Kaz the guy has used charity donation money to buy a large painting of himself for his house. But ok, our definitions might differ...
 
To be fair, unknown is better than Clinton to many people. Personally I subscribe to the "Better the devil you know..." philosophy.
 
Kaz
@bilbo_pingouin Let's just say that when it comes to PoTUS, there are factors I think are incredibly important, and factors I think are less important.
 
He may well be corrupt, sure. But it hasn't been proven to the degree that it has with her. He probably is.
 
Like I said, unknown, but that doesn't mean "clean", ya know?
 
Kaz
And enough of his might lead to interesting outcomes that I'd take him over Clinton.
 
8:10 PM
Until this year I was a long-time republican. Having said that, I think Clinton is less likely to get us into world war 3.
 
Kaz
Asking for a clean candidate is asking for a fairy tale.
 
Clean? I'd settle for "not swimming in a septic tank"
 
In my experience, concerning business, predictable is always more desirable than interesting or unknown.
 
Kaz
@ChristopherEstep I'd actually disagree, but I would agree that whoever is most likely to start a world war should really be at the top of the list of criteria.
 
well, if the election were to take place in Western Europe, Trump would not stand a chance... whatever that mean :)
 
Kaz
8:13 PM
@bilbo_pingouin Depends. I mean, here in the UK we did elect Boris Johnson mayor of London.
 
The problem is, right now at least, we literally don't know if Donald goes "swimming in a septic tank" during his free time.
 
@Kaz who was followed by a muslim of migrant origins...
 
I guess I'm saying that I'd take corrupt over a dangerous hothead.
 
Kaz
@ChristopherEstep It's all perspective I guess ^^
 
But that ignores the possibility that he may be a dangerous and corrupt hothead. I don't think the bet is worth the risk.
For every great success from an unknown quantity, there are countless examples of failures who didn't do their homework or weren't able to get the job done.
 
8:17 PM
This is a remarkably civil political discussion. Go figure. lol
 
As @kaz says, it's about perspective. More perspective is almost always better. I'd like to see the guy's taxes.
I think we're all walking on eggshells to a certain extent, and I think that's good, lol
 
Kaz
And before we get too lost in the "who's worst" game. I would love to have some better cchoices from either party.
 
Or we're just depressed to the point where nobody (here) really wants either of them.
 
Kaz
@ChristopherEstep He certainly wouldn't have been my first choice
 
I've seen a poll result from 18-35 y.o. who would rather have Obama elected for life than to choose between either of the two main candidate...
 
8:20 PM
@Kaz we had better choices. The best candidate the democrats had left early on because he was pro-military and not rabid for gun control. Jim Webb. He'd have destroyed most of the GOP candidates.
And most of the 16 or so republicans would be better than trump. The problem is the GOP eats their own and so each one was picked off while trump's supporters held solid.
 
Yeah, the nomination process this year really did not play out smartly IMO.
 
60% of the GOP wanted someone other than trump. that's an electoral fact.
 
Radical minorities seem to have swung the vote 20 different ways and we ended up with an extreme dichotomy.
 
yeah, actually on the GOP, one problem was that Trump had waayy more media coverage than anyone else...
which created a Trump against all the others
 
::rim-shot::
 
8:23 PM
That was A problem.
 
I did write "one"
 
I think there's a lesson to be learned with Trump though. Candidates need to stop apologizing. Trump didn't back down when something was blown out of proportion.
 
Well, he also played really fast and loose with the whole "not answering questions you don't know about" thing we lauded earlier.
 
I think there's a lesson to be learned with Trump though. Candidates need to stop apologizing. Trump didn't back down when something was blown out of proportion.
SO many politicians retract just because of a little heat. I hope pols learn from that.
 
Like Clinton, who just coasts along without giving her opponents new ammo against her.
 
8:28 PM
SO many politicians retract just because of a little heat. I hope pols learn from that.
I agree completely.
ugh, I'm double posting or something.
For a technology company we sure have a crappy network. lol
 
Lol, even technology companies has a bottom-line fighting with the IT budget, a pain I know all too well.
 
Someone earlier asked who was the last POTUS to die in office of natural causes. That was FDR.
 
I say that Clinton is what you get when you try to rig a primary and succeed, and trump is what you get when you try to rig a primary and fail
 
Yeah, so FDR died in 1945 of polio. Healthcare is a bit better since then. Unless a candidate is hiding a serious pre-existing condition (and how would we prove that), I don't think it's particularly likely they'll die in office.
 
a large number of POTUS have died in office, though
 
8:39 PM
@ChristopherEstep an old joke about the Soviet Union was what premier EVER died of natural causes. Stalin was about as close as they came
 
I honestly believe she's hiding a serious condition. Whether it has the potential to be fatal, I don't know.
 
@DoritoStyle it is now thought that FDR never had polio
 
@DoritoStyle for comparison, Miterrand was French President for 14 years... with a cancer from before being elected.
 
Mitterand WAS a cancer
 
@RichardU most politicians are...
 
8:42 PM
@bilbo_pingouin which is why I cannot understand rabid support for any of them
I have never, and will never give money to a political campaign
 
I have, but I'm pretty selective. Last one was my congressman Tom Price.
That was 6 years ago.
 
@ChristopherEstep what evidence is there though, some gossip and once instance of her fainting, or am I missing something? She might as well have had the flu, why assume?
 
She's having seizures of some kind, several times on video. That's just for starters.
 
@DoritoStyle there are those videos, and the strange "misfortunes" of people who mention her health, such as Dr Drew Pinsky being fired after he mentioned that she appeared to have symptoms of parkinsons. It is also documented fact that she had a head injury and blood clots.
There is also that man who keeps running to her when she's having issues.
There is plenty of video evidence if you care to look.
 
As it stands those are coincidences unless evidence comes up to the latter. I don't like to assume things.
 
8:49 PM
@DoritoStyle that's why I say look for yourself. I don't expect anyone to take my word for anything.
 
Well, I haven't seen to video, so I can't speak to the credibility or weather what's seen is even really a seizure by medical definition. It seems a bit presumptuous to believe she has health problems though, and that assumes that either 1) the DNS is willing to bet on an unhealthy candidate (why?) 2) she's successfully tricking to the DNC (that gets a bit close to conspiracy for me to buy without proof)
 
@DoritoStyle Wikileaks has plenty of info. Strange how Assange was cut off from the 'net though....
 
Well, who corroborates wikileaks info though? Has any of the Clinton health stuff been verified by a medical authority? Having a technical team verify hacking evidence is one thing, but it doesn't gaurentee credibility everywhere else.
It must seem like i'm digging my head in the sand here
but really, i'm not invested in either side. I'm not willing to accept any argument without credibility though.
 
Is there proof? No. But if there was a "does Hillary have something wrong in her brain causing seizures?" book, I'd put my own money on it. It'll come out eventually. Most things do.
 
Kaz
It's all just observations, guesswork an balance of probabilities
 
8:55 PM
Eh, I would call that a bad bet. Odds are in the house's favor since they have the proof either way.
Which is why I keep coming back to Trump's unknown quantities.
 
@Kaz I think there's more than that... especially in the last part of a political campaign...
 
Someone earlier said this, but some things are more important than others when considering PotUS. Their main job is commander of the military and a figure-head of the nation.
I would never give a gun to a stranger, and I won't elect Trump for PotUS for the same logic.
 
There's the old saying "Where there's smoke there's fire." Where her health is concerned, there's a mount pinatubo worth of smoke.
I'm outa here. quitting time for me
 
And, as a figure head, I'd say his international reputation is obvious...
Except "Where there's smoke there's fire." is not reliable at all. :)
 
@ChristopherEstep old does not equal good. That saying has caused so much harm in history, that I, for one, would not relate with it.
 
8:59 PM
In fact, it has it's own fallacy, Hasty Conclusion
Which means making an uninformed decision, no proof, just correlation
 
yep, there's a better saying: correlation does not equal causation :)
 
Yeah, it's a good idea to think of presidential voting as if any "bet" you make were the same as betting a year's salary on a poker game. You better make real sure you know what's coming and not guess blindly.
or more aptly, 4-8 years salary.
 
@DoritoStyle there is no hasty conclusions here, just well researched ones, and the powers of observation.
 
Well, to say the least, I disagree.
 
Based on what?
There is also confirmation bias, echo chambers, et cetera
 
9:09 PM
I see no research, only observation. No doctor's comments, only cell phone videos.

I don't trust brickmakers about jewelry buying, and I don't trust laymen about complex healthcare issues.
 
neither candidate is necessarily in the best of shape (well except Gary Johnson)
 
Yeah, he's a Bull, lol
 
And in general, I wouldn't go to a machinist for stock advice, except for the fact that I know one who became a millionaire through his investing.
@DoritoStyle Would you follow the advice of a dropout for computers?
 
@RichardU and because one did, all can be taken for experts?
 
@RichardU buy index funds. dont sell them until you retire
boom. investing advice!
:)
 
9:12 PM
@enderland I've actually timed the market three times, unfortunately I never had money to invest myself at those times
<== Autistic savant
The last time I told people to buy ford when it was at about a dollar. If anyone had listened to me, they would have made a fortune
Indexed funds are generally safe, but you do want to include a bit of risk in your portfolio for it's growth potential if you are young enough
@DoritoStyle then, of course there was the case of Ignaz Semmelweis, the doctor who told other doctors to wash hands long before Germ Theory was even a notion.
He had no proof, but he was right.
 
@RichardU then you're not taking advice from "a machinist", you're taking advice from a millionare. That doesn't make it ok to the trust the rest of the machinists.
 
@DoritoStyle but before he was a millionaire, he was a machinist.
 
@RichardU and before that they thought that bleeding was the thing to do... they had no proof, but... they failed miserably.
don't mistake the exception to the rule
 
@bilbo_pingouin you're actually proving my point. The "Experts" were doing the bleeding.
 
In my case, you're not following the advice of "a dropout", you're following the advice of someone who's resume experience got them a job and their on the job skills got them and a promotion.
nice try though..
 
9:19 PM
@RichardU no you're ignoring mine.
 
@bilbo_pingouin there is a phenomenon, and a very persistent one, where advances were made not by "experts" but by people sometimes entirely outside of the field.
 
re: Ignaz Semmelweis, so what? once proof was found, their minds changed. Why would they risk people's lives on unproven medicine?
 
Surgical glue was invented by a nurse not a doctor. Cell phone technology was first proposed by an actress, not a telecommunications expert
 
Moreover, show me a doctor willing to make a diagnosis based on a random video, and I'll show you a malpractice lawsuit.
 
@RichardU yep, but if I want to know what to do to get a new pain killer drug, I'll have more chance with a chemist than with a ice cream seller
 
9:21 PM
Then of course, there was Louis Pasteur, who's germ theory was poo poohed.
 
part of the problem is the president realistically shouldn't have much power anyways, but as a country we've sort of given the president consistently more power
 
@DoritoStyle you're engaging in ad hominems, hasty generalizations, non sequiturs, and style over substance fallacies
 
Please point out where & how.
 
Kaz
@RichardU To be fair, you're not helping much.
 
@bilbo_pingouin Paul Winchel had a patent for an artificial heart. You know, the voice of Disney's Tigger?
 
9:23 PM
@RichardU you're not proving anything with these weak examples. A nurse has healthcare tarining, and if an accress designed an electrical patent then they obviously had training irrelevant to their acting career.
just because you're best know for one thing doesn't mean you don't have qualifications elsewhere.
 
@DoritoStyle I've already proven it. You keep citing the "Don't trust a bricklayer" saw, and I've already made that look like Swiss Cheese, and I can provide literally hundreds of examples from the top of my head.
<===Eidetic memory
 
@RichardU again, you're looking for the exceptions... because a handful of people in history were brilliant beyond their occupation, all people expectations and so on, does not mean that all the qualified specialists are more dumb than any layman around
 
Paul Winchel was a god-damned pre-med student
well said @bilbo_pingouin
 
@DoritoStyle correct, far from an expert
 
And in any case, he didn't even deliver the patents.
 
9:26 PM
@bilbo_pingouin but that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that there are enough significant exceptions to avoid blind obedience to so-called experts at every turn.
 
expert is in any case an over-used and abused term in the media... and does not mean a thing.
 
@Kaz from my perspective this is a fairly constructive and respectful political discussion. though I am super out of it anyways :P
 
I said pre-med training does give you license to be respected in a field
 
@bilbo_pingouin that is the exact point I was making
 
after all, I am a dropout. Do you think I am not qualified for my job?
 
9:27 PM
@DoritoStyle about as qualified as Steve Jobs was for his.
 
Not sure if that was an insult or a compliment.
 
@RichardU but a trained physician, is a trained physician and can be given some form of authority as long as health goes...
 
@bilbo_pingouin So, when two trained physicians are in dispute, who do you trust?
 
so don't rely on experts, keep open to new ideas from somewhere else, but do not dismiss people with a proper training
 
ok... take a deep breath folks
it's just the internet
This room was placed in timeout for 3 minutes; the topic of this room is "General discussion for workplace.stackexchange.com"; - conversation should be limited to that topic.
It's possible to disagree on the internet. there are respectful and disrespectful ways to do this - making the argument about the other person almost always will end poorly in that regard
12
> Rudeness and belittling language are not okay. Your tone should match the way you'd talk in person with someone you respect and whom you want to respect you. If you don't have time to say something politely, just leave it for someone who does.

Be welcoming, be patient, and assume good intentions. Don't expect new users to know all the rules — they don't. And be patient while they learn. If you're here for help, make it as easy as possible for others to help you. Everyone here is volunteering, and no one responds well to demands for help.
 
9:33 PM
Hello everyone :) It sure is nice to take a breather every once in a while.
 
@bilbo_pingouin You mean like the personal computer, surgical glue, saccharine, et cetera
 
5 messages deleted
 
Kaz
@RichardU Your overarching idea I agree with, but there's a wonderful phrase that's applicable here:
> The plural of anecdote is not "data"
 
@RichardU I think I'll leave it at agreeing to disagree on that point. To be honest, I'm not sure I see the offensive part on my previous message, that required it to be deleted. But either way, it's probably linked to it being 23:37 and me being up since 6:00...
 
9:38 PM
@bilbo_pingouin I accidentally deleted it... sorry about that
 
It was caught in the crossfire I bet
 
@enderland ah ok, makes more sense... ;) anyway, have fun and don't break the internet :)
 
I'd blame the tools but it's basically my fault. I tried to undelete it afterwards but I'm not sure it's possible
 
don't bother, it isn't bringing anything, and it certainly does not need to be pass on to History ;)
 
 
2 hours later…
11:48 PM
@bilbo_pingouin I don't see where we are disagreeing
 

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