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vzn
5:01 PM
@CRDrost afaik the best astronomical observation/ measurement of black holes so far, other than LIGO, is a bunch of wobbling stars near the center of the milky way galaxy... announced not too long ago...
 
You always see these black spots in the simulations showing where the black holes "are," but if they're surrounded by radiating gas clouds I think it would make things look super-interesting and even pretty. I have a sneaking suspicion that if we actually get to look at a black hole it'll look nothing like those early simulations due to all of this infalling light and matter and stuff...
 
@CRDrost So presumably sort of like the Interstellar one?
 
instead maybe having, say, black poles, a bright luminous disk, and spirals of reddening light washing upwards over the black poles
 
Also with the huge lot of bright x-ray radiation they skipped
 
I don't know, that's why the question -- I was asking if the Interstellar one had those things.
 
5:03 PM
@ChrisWhite speaking of thesis, how's that going
 
I'm also interested in the x-ray stuff because presumably it gets redshifted into some sort of rainbow trail as it comes from further and further down. :D
 
Hughes cautions that scientists are only just learning to understand this new language—the warbling that codes for spin could be inaudible if both black holes spin the same way. “There are homonyms,” he said, laughing. “Two sources can say different things but sound exactly the same.”
 
I don't know exactly because my university was really strong in condensed matter (TU Delft), I didn't get to do much work with computational astrophysics visualizations. :(
 
user54412
@EmilioPisanty The PRL paper seems to have a very clean picture of a waveform
 
user54412
from simulation
 
5:07 PM
Yeah they said in the conference I watched that they were also able to "clean up" their own image quite a bit.
 
@Danu I was working as a colloid scientist, and we were looking at depletion flocculation of emulsions and suspensions by the sort of polysaccharides used as thickeners in food.
 
^image of their final results with best-fit predictions superimposed.
 
Thnx
 
user54412
@CRDrost all sorts of cool things, yes, though probably playing out pretty slowly
 
user54412
the dynamical time for the supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy is ~10 minutes
 
user54412
5:09 PM
it's 1000 times longer for some larger ones
 
How did they tell it was a billion light years away? I missed that bit.
 
user54412
stellar-mass black holes would be better for live viewing
 
user54412
@JohnRennie the predicted waveform comes with an amplitude, so 1/r^2
 
user54412
I bet that number is pretty uncertain, though -- frequency is easier to both predict and measure than amplitude
 
5:12 PM
@ChrisWhite Doh, of course. Now I look more carefully their paper says:
Using the fits to numerical simulations of binary black
hole mergers in [92,93], we provide estimates of the mass
and spin of the final black hole, the total energy radiated
in gravitational waves, and the peak gravitational-wave
luminosity
 
Also here's the video they showed at the announcement: youtube.com/watch?v=YsZFRkzLGew
 
vzn
@CRDrost it possible that black holes "rarely" swallow stuff or are caught in that act and that usually stuff is just "circulating/ orbiting nearby"...?
 
Can three or more black holes merge @ChrisWhite?
 
@vzn: I don't know. I guess another way to ask that question is, "is it possible that there are a lot of invisible black holes in interstellar space where there's not very much to accrete?" and the answer is probably "yes, if they're small enough that we haven't really seen them."
Any black hole with a certain size will have a radius outside the event horizon where there are no stable orbits, so you expect to be able to see stuff which falls in because it comes too close.
 
vzn
@CRDrost what was your masters on? seems like its either pass/ fail, thats the main thing... perfect is the enemy of the good...
@CRDrost another (contrarian) idea (afaik not contradicting any observations/ theory) is that black holes are mostly at center of galaxies, holding them together & rarely seen alone outside of them.
another interesting related question is "how many galaxies do not have black holes at center, and how are they different from ones that do?"
 
5:20 PM
@vzn: I wrote a thesis about a vibration-modulated electron transport junction which did not seem to be generating, in my simulations, the normal vibrational "sidebands" you'd see from quantum mechanics. This made it very interesting as those vibrations could be weakly measured via transport but were protected from otherwise entangling.
 
vzn
@CRDrost sounds fine, what objections to that could there possibly be? :P the real/ bottom line test is the advisory committee... pass/ fail...
 
Then after my thesis I stayed on for half a year to try and turn it into a paper. During that I discovered a crucial flaw in the thesis -- the thing which everybody uses to measure electrical properties was, in my case, not the right thing to look at for those measurements anymore.
If you look at the right thing you find out that actually there are these sidebands and the whole system is far more boring.
 
vzn
@CRDrost agreed over long periods stuff is falling into black holes (basically how they form in 1st place), but the question is, how often? all stellar objects have lifecycles...
 
Another interesting phenomenon where the vibrations seemed to be suppressing transport in an interesting way also thereby became unobservable.
 
Did anyone else notice that three authors on that paper died before it was published?
 
5:25 PM
Get ready for a flood of black hole questions :P
 
@0celo7 holy crap you're right, it's at the very bottom after the institution credits.
 
@guest They're already coming
 
@CRDrost Hmm, holy crap that three people died or holy crap that I'm right about something for once?
 
@0celo7 Stop being paranoid, he doesn't know you're usually wrong :P
 
holy crap I totally missed that because ain't nobody got time to read through that shit.
 
5:26 PM
^
 
@ACuriousMind I'm not paranoid.
Justified paranoia is not paranoia.
 
What is it then?
 
Being vigilant around crooks and the like.
 
Good answer.
 
@guest You're a crook or similar.
 
5:29 PM
0
Q: Math rendering errors?

joseph f. johnsonRecently,and my browser and configuration have not changed, hardly any maths formulas are exhibited in the question. Sometimes there is not even a red phrase about an error...nothing to indicate that the formula or symbol is missing. Has the site changed its rendering or something? And th...

 
Most raider fans are @0celo7
 
J. Heefner (LIGO CalTech, d. Apr 2012), R. Schilling (Max-Planck-Institut, d. May 2015) and C.V. Torres (U.Texas Rio Grande Valley, d. March 2015) were given posthumous authorship credits.
 
@ChrisWhite Yeah, I was wondering how to get it into a computer.
 
@guest Sadly this chat is supposed to be civil
@ACuriousMind can you even name one instance where I was wrong
 
vzn
just noticed this, a bunch of nice papers on the subj virgo-gw.eu/papers.html
 
6:10 PM
Hello
I was readed in Feynman tips that the best ways to learn physics is following the idea, which you want to understand this.
*without this
How I choose any idea as I have to understand basics of physics?
 
Apparently they expect "Tens of events per year." (LIGO)
 
@hubot The point of that tip is that wanting to understand a certain idea will motivate you. The entire purpose is lost if someone else tells you what idea to understand.
 
@hubot (and be a genius.... WBW wrote an article about how Elon Musk thinks about things the same way.)
 
Jiminion: Do not enough prominent mind?
 
@FenderLesPaul Two unis I applied to are sending out today...I haven't got anything yet
@FenderLesPaul and one of them is off my list because I've been accepted to 3 better universities already!
 
6:19 PM
Is quantum field theory a good idea to motivate for me?
Quantum Field Theory is very interesting for me
 
Build on your interest.
 
user54412
@dmckee As one of my profs used to point out, everyone keeps saying supernovae are the most luminous things in the universe, but BH mergers in fact emit 1000 times more power in gravitational waves.
 
What is properly collimated atoms bundle?
 
6:57 PM
@GBeau ah I see
unfortunately none of the unis I applied to seem to have sent anything yet
 
@ChrisWhite does luminous not refer to photons though
 
user54412
7:14 PM
only for classics majors, and they don't get a say :p
 
@ChrisWhite what
 
@FenderLesPaul hmm
 
Good bye
 
7:40 PM
@ACuriousMind what does your Θ look like
 
@GBeau Harvard came out
 
@FenderLesPaul rejections as well
 
@GBeau rejections for what?
 
@FenderLesPaul I'm saying it looks like Harvard is sending out their rejections as well
at least some of them
 
oh I don't see any on grad cafe
rejections that is
where'd you see the rejections?
 
7:56 PM
@FenderLesPaul that forum
 
oh
ok
It might not be formal rejections, just people saying they're basically rejected
because no email
apparently they sent out waitlists too
 
Sigh
What do we do with all the scattered questions that boil down to "How does LIGO work?"
Do we choose one of them at random to close the others as duplicate of?
(I can't do that now anyway because I'm out of close votes)
 
@ACuriousMind \Theta, please
 
@0celo7 It looks pretty much like $\vartheta$.
 
I can't draw that
The proof of the ratio test for series is pretty damn cool
 
9:21 PM
@JohnRennie Oops. You are right. Gravity waves are very different. The contexts are very different. Is there a gravity wave in space, separate from gravitational waves? (not the fluid mechanics gravity wave....)
 
I wonder if somebody else picked up the same event in their detector somewhere
 
@ChrisWhite Do supernovae beat out GRBs?
 
If someone were to write a self QA explaining thermodynamic "potentials" starting from statistical mechanics, and explaining the meaning of exact and inexact differentials etc. from a someone mathematical perspective, I'd drop a bounty on it.
2
 
 
1 hour later…
10:57 PM
@DanielSank I second this suggestion
(and am willing to add to the bounty)
Also this is hilarious.
 
@Danu Trying to do something related to facial recognition and AI expression modelling, perhaps?
 
@Secret It's the Chinese taking over.
 
Aaaaand the first LIGO question is hot
And @ChrisWhite already hit the rep cap
So many votes that could be used to catch up to me wasted...
 
user54412
@HDE226868 well, (long-duration) GRBs are pretty solidly coincident with (certain Type Ib/c) SNe
 
user54412
be careful, as often with GRBs the "isotropic equivalent" energy is what's reported, whereas we see a jet with opening angle $\sim 1/\gamma$
 
user54412
11:10 PM
@ACuriousMind not gonna lie, was hoping they would go hot while I was writing answers
 
@ACuriousMind which one is the first LIGO question among the GW question flood?
 
@Secret No, it's not the "first among the flood", it's just the first I've seen on the HNQ list.
(and it's this one)
 
user54412
Secret broke images :p
 
user54412
(also https -> http)
 
11:21 PM
The hype of the announcement last night caused me to dreamt about millimetre gravitational waves (as said in the dream).

After waking up, I then translate this into the usual language used to describe the gravitational wave spectrum (i.e. in units of time) and I got femtosecond gravitational waves

However I am not sure if there are any sources that can potentially produce that, whether they can in principle be detected (because it is oscillating too fast) and whether they can actually be produced (since the GW detected by LIGO is from black holes that are already travelling at near 0.5c
 
@ACuriousMind I'm meeting at least one of her parents in two weeks D: help
 
I am pretty sure my brain got that millimetre idea from that Hungarian journal article that Curiousmind warns me about
 
@0celo7 Uh...what kind of help do you expect for that?
 
@ACuriousMind For you to write this fucking card!
 
...what has the card to do with the parents?
 
11:25 PM
NOTHIGN
ignore me
 
@0celo7 k
 
Oh, wait, please prove the root test for me
 
Sorry typo: CuriousOne not CuriousMind
 
wtf, now I've also reached my normal vote limit
I'm almost completely powerless to let my judgement rain down on questions and answers in the next half hour
 
-1
Q: How to prove this rigoriously with experiment or prove it without the chain rule?

Victor How to prove this rigoriously by experiment or prove it with other mechanics law but without the chain rule? Also please explain what this is term by term since i don't quite understand what this seem to be simple formula is.

Hmm, has anyone proved the chain rule with an experiment?
 
11:32 PM
Gnnnh...I comment: "please do not use pictures of formulae" user: adds more pictures.
 
@ACuriousMind please explain Chern's comment that Euclidean geometry is just the study of the frame bundle of Euclidean space
I don't see what these forms have to do with triangles and shit
 
Jan 9 at 2:37, by CuriousOne
A. Füzfa? That's sounds like a Hungarian name. Never trust Hungarian physicists, they always like to build bigger bombs.
@Secret .
 
@ACuriousMind $\mathrm{D}\omega=0$, $\omega\in\Lambda^1\otimes \mathfrak{o}(n)$ does not scream Euclidean geometry to me
 
@0celo7 I very much suspect that "Euclidean geometry" there does not mean "Euclid's geometry", but "geometry on $\mathbb{R}^n$".
I.e. what Chern is telling you is that geometry on $\mathbb{R}^n$, and thus Riemannian geometry, is just the study of the frame bundle.
 
Yeah, and "geometry" in general is the study of a general $G$-bundle
 
11:39 PM
If I still cannot googled up some answers, or calculated something >c (thus showing they are impossible to be produced) for my curiosity, I am going to write that millimetre gravitational wave question later on the PSE
but for now I have 10 mins before I must go to a symposium in my uni
 
@ACuriousMind Can one get triangles and shit from $\mathrm{D}\omega=0$?
 
and it's chemistry
 
@0celo7 Well, as you may recall, curvature does determine the sum of the internal angles of a triangle, for example, so this flatness already says that triangles have the usual 180°.
 
Is that the Gauss-Bonnet thing for triangles
Geodesic curvature or something
 
@0celo7 Yes
 
11:44 PM
@ACuriousMind so...Euclid's geometry IS just the study of the frame bundle
 
A bit polemic, but yes, I suppose so
 
big words
> a strong verbal or written attack on someone or something.
I don't think that was the word you had in mind.
 
@0celo7 Oh, it was - it sounds very disrespectful of Euclid to say his work is just the study of the frame bundle
 
@ACuriousMind the just was my addition, and it was not meant in that way
 
Well, too late, Euclid's zombie is already out to get you now
 
11:49 PM
Ok
He has to cross an ocean to get to me
 
He doesn't need to breathe, he can just walk over
 
Euclid = Jesus
Or does he walk along the bottom a la WWZ?
 
I was thinking of walking along the bottom - if he walked really over the water, it didn't matter whether he breathes
 
Ah, indeed.
@ACuriousMind Maybe it's a little polemic to algebraic geometers
Unless they study principal bundles too
 
@0celo7 Not that I know, but they do have differentials
And a notion of smoothness
 
11:54 PM
Well, ain't nobody gon say nuttin about being polemic towards algebraic geometers
What have they done for anyone lately
 
they don't study "Euclidean geometry", like, at all, though, so I'm not sure why you think it would be disrespectful towards them
 
@0celo7 Where'd you find this comment?
 
@Danu wouldn't you like to know
 
@0celo7 I would, in fact.
 
why
 
11:57 PM
I take a strong interest in the History of Science and Mathematics
 
@FenderLesPaul aaaand UCLA is sending out (still nothing here)
 
@Danu do you?
@Danu It's in a book titled "Differential Geometry"
 
@Danu perhaps I really should ask that meta question, @EmilioPisanty brought it up in his most recent comment to the question physics.stackexchange.com/questions/234449/…
 
@0celo7 By whom?
 
"We are also not a substitute to peer review of your paper from last year." physics.stackexchange.com/questions/234449/…
 
11:59 PM
@Danu I feel like this is a trap...
 
@GBeau lol, he suggested taking it to PO. I approve.
 
@0celo7 Seriously
 

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