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7:00 PM
@Mego The first can alternatively be referred to as Machop for short.
3
 
@AlexA. It's easy. The site is in beta for 4 years.
 
But 4 is the cosmic number.
 
Counterargument: Gmail was in beta for a lot longer, but it's not now.
 
7.9 questions a day means you all are getting close. I'm guessing (at this rate) you'll get an election later in the year and a design sometime later. Not much else to say, really. — Jon Ericson ♦ Jan 15 at 4:11
^ Response from a Stack Exchange community manager.
Which implies that he expects us to graduate later this year.
 
Plus, it's been 5 years now :P
 
7:03 PM
@AlexA. This fully NOes all my previous predictions.
@Geobits Counting private beta, yes.
 
I'm just counting the giant number on the page you linked (1826 days in beta). Even the public is only a week from 5 years.
 
@AlexA. The second can be Femachop.
 
@Mego Combining some combinations yields Dr. Porkchop.
 
Speaking of which, is there a semidecade party planned?
 
I think it'd be more of a pity party than a celebration.
Unless, of course, we invite Kool and the Gang.
 
7:06 PM
Or the Kool Aid Guy. He'd bust down all the walls, though.
Dude's an asshole when he's drunk.
 
Citizen beats Slave, loses to King
King beats Citizen, loses to Slave
Slave beats King, loses to Citizen

Each round, the bot chooses a card
to play. There are 4 citizens, and
another "specialty" card, which is
either "King" or "Slave". As thus,
you must try to win as many rounds
as you can in a certain game.
My KotH idea
 
Sounds like rock-paper-scissors?
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Send it to the Sandbox! I can build a scorer for a round of play.
 
With limited amounts of each, though.
 
Sort of, but has a lot more strategy.
@zyabin101 I've already finished the controller.
 
7:10 PM
It sounds like you'd just want to keep track of what's been played and throw a weighted random card, though.
 
from bots import *
from random import *
from os.path import dirname, basename, isfile
import glob

modules = glob.glob(dirname(__file__)+"/bots/*.py")
bot_list = [basename(f)[:-3] for f in modules if isfile(f) and not basename(f).startswith('_')]

# initialize the scores
scores = {}
for i in bot_list:
	scores[i] = 0

# for pitting two bots against each other
def pair(list):
	l = len(list) - 1
	return [list[randint(0,l)],list[randint(0,l)]]

# for pitting two unique bots against each other
def unique_pair(list):
 
I could be wrong, just first thoughts.
 
@Geobits That's what I thougth, too, but I will allow recording, so you can "observe" the mentality of your oponnent.
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Specify the input/output requirements.
 
@zyabin101 You will output a card from the deck; the input will be the data (k_data or s_data)
I still need to work on return validation.
 
7:12 PM
I've successfully used Chapel to run a program on another computer remotely.
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ How the names will be formatted?
 
Anonymous
Being sick sucks. I need ice cream.
 
@zyabin101 "King", "Slave", "Citizen"
@Mego yeah. do it.
 
0
Q: Things you should do when writing challenges

MegoAs I mentioned in my introspection post, I believe the site would benefit from having a list of things one should do when writing challenges. We have a list of things to avoid, but little guidance for new users on what is good to include in a challenge. Post answers that you believe are benefici...

 
1) Don't write the challenge. Seriously, think about it for a bit longer.
 
7:22 PM
@Geobits I always spend three days to a few weeks before I write my challenges, nowadays.
 
7:35 PM
github is really overpriced.
 
Anonymous
@mınxomaτ Yeah free is ridiculous
 
Anonymous
They should be paying me for my dumb programming projects I host there
 
@Mego It's $90/y for 5(!) personal private repos. But when you accidentally book the repos on your organisation, it's $300/y. For no reason whatsoever. There are no feature differences, yet the price increases.
 
Anonymous
@mınxomaτ Why would you use Github for private repos?
 
Anonymous
If you want code to be private, encrypt it and host it on a public repo
 
7:39 PM
@Mego Cause it's one of the few cloud services for private repos. And of all the hosted services, it has the best set of features when it comes to communication.
@Mego Yeah, that is completely impractical. That's just a binary blob, you can't benefit from the usual github features.
 
It would be like a dropbox-type service where you weren't allowed to delete old files.
 
@feersum FTP with a cron-job to strip delete permissions? Windows has seamless integration of FTP servers into File Explorer afaik (sure lnx/osx has something similar, but I never tried).
Or do you need a web interface?
 
lol
 
You're laughing, but one customer really requested that once :)
 
7:48 PM
@mınxomaτ There's also Bitbucket (which I personally dislike) and GitLab, which is alright.
 
@AlexA. Argh, gitlab...
 
GitLab doesn't seem to have an issue tracker though, or at least if it does then it's well hidden.
 
Bitbucket is alright, but it misses many social features of github imo.
Yet it has a saner payment plan.
 
I'm sensing some animosity toward GitLab.
 
1 min ago, by mınxomaτ
@AlexA. Argh, gitlab...
@AlexA. Really?
 
7:50 PM
Yes
 
@AlexA. Uhm, I told you about this some time ago.
 
Oh right, wasn't it something about how you did xkcd stuff and it was hosted on GitLab and there was something weird?
 
Well it might be, because the gl server was set up by a haskell programmer.
 
Oh gross, Haskell
 
7:52 PM
I don't know haskell, bu I like that you can define custom infix operators.
 
You can do that in R and Julia as well.
 
(I don't know Haskell either, but I look at his repos (I still have access to the server) and walk slowly backwards).
 
Anonymous
We should have a poll for ranking non-esoteric programming languages
 
@AlexA. In R? Really?
@Mego JavaScript is bae
 
Anonymous
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Eww no
 
7:54 PM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Don't ever use that term again.
 
What does "bae" mean?
 
before anything else.
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Oui.
 
Also the name of my friend's creepy grandfather.
 
Anonymous
7:55 PM
Though polling the people here would probably put JS way too high up on the list because of the weird obsession several community members have with only using JS
 
I consider JS somewhat lazy/easy to be honest. But "nowadays" many start developing with JS, so I guess it has it's value.
 
In the US, one must be 18 to vote.
 
@mınxomaτ Ouch. I consider it "more programming, less baggage".
 
Anonymous
JS is just the next iteration of beginner-oriented languages
 
Anonymous
7:58 PM
Before JS, it was Java
 
Anonymous
Before Java, it was BASIC
 
Before BASIC, it was an abacus.
 
@Mego What about Python?
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ `%;%` <- function(a, b) c(a, b)
1 %;% 2 becomes the array 1, 2.
 
8:00 PM
I started out with QBASIC and got into Assembly to speed up my QBASIC things. Then VB6 came along, then all sorts of languages. My first thought about JS was "really, that easy?". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
It's also golfier.
 
My first thought about JS was "wow, this is weird. Why do people use this?"
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
@AlexA. That was me about Java.
 
I don't think JavaScript is easy at all :-/
 
@AlexA. That was me about this website. :P
@Rainbolt Why?
 
Anonymous
8:01 PM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Python is beginner-friendly, but it's not beginner-oriented. Its main design goals are elegance and zen.
 
@Rainbolt I can't think of a widely used, easier, language.
 
@Mego "elegance"? Python code looks like barf.
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Variable hoisting and optional syntax both confused me
 
Anonymous
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Says the JS programmer :P
 
In my opinion, everyone should start learning programming with C. It requires more thought about what's really happening.
That said, I did not start programming in C and I have no idea how.
 
8:02 PM
F#
 
sorry @Mego ...
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'BʀɪᴇɴKings and Slaves king-of-the-hill You will write a bot that will compete in a card game I will call "Kings and Slaves". It is a two-player game, in which each player receives a "deck" of 5 cards. This deck contains 4 citizens, and either a king or a slave. The gameplay looks like this: Each p...

 
Anonymous
@AlexA. That's what I did :P Now I never use C anymore, because I never need to be that close to the metal
 
I couldn't care less about Python. I had so much problems so many times getting to run py scripts on windows it hurts. Then the top SO answer is "yeah, that's incompatible with this, really easy once you know". ...
 
@AlexA. That seems sadistic.
 
Anonymous
8:03 PM
@TanMath ಠ_ಠ
 
are we talking about the best language?
 
Anonymous
@mınxomaτ That's an issue with Windows, not Python.
 
Python is obviously the best!
 
Are we talking about Perl?
 
@Mego why are you still angry?
 
Anonymous
8:03 PM
Python works 100% of the time on POSIX systems
 
Anonymous
@TanMath Because you're still pinging me
 
@Mego I didn't claim the opposite.
 
@mınxomaτ Finding a way to detect whether a file is hidden on Windows was a much more complicated endeavor than I figured it would be when I tried to do it.
 
you are pinging me!
@Mego ಠ_ಠ
 
@PhiNotPi Speaking of languages that look like barf...
 
8:04 PM
lol
 
Anonymous
@mınxomaτ You complained about trying to get Python to work on Windows, implying that you were blaming Python for your difficulties and not Windows.
 
In my opinion, PHP is the worst language to look at. It just hurts.
PHP: Pretty Horrible Poop.
3
 
@AlexA. I prefer the term "predigested."
 
@Rainbolt Ah, I see.
 
@Mego I didn't imply this. I had trouble. This was my statement. I said I didn't care about python.
 
8:05 PM
@Mego Dynamic whitespace also really bugs me :(
 
Or rather I never had any reason to care ... yet.
 
For some reason I constantly get endorsements on LinkedIn for knowing PHP. I've never used PHP in my life.
 
The day might come ;)
 
@Rainbolt That's LinkedIn for you.
 
@Rainbolt You must have enemies.
2
 
8:06 PM
@Rainbolt Really, if you use any programming language at all, you're able to write PHP. You just need a reference for the laughable amounts of built-ins.
 
Anonymous
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ IMO I would rather not use whitespace for code blocks, but curly braces aren't any better
 
They haven't broken through my first line of defense: click the "reject" button
 
@AlexA. PowerShell ... ls c:\foo -fo|?{$_.Mode-match"h"} ... none of this Python stuff on Windows :D
 
3 mins ago, by Alex A.
@PhiNotPi Speaking of languages that look like barf...
 
@Mego They look better to me.
 
8:08 PM
I've decided that PowerShell is just C# except with no universal standard for capitalization or syntax.
 
C# is a usable tool.
 
@AlexA. Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis? param($a,$b)$a|%{"CBA"[2*$_+$b[++$d-1]]} is perfectly readable...
 
._.
 
$cmd = New-Object System.Data.SqlClient.SqlCommand <-- Looks like C# had a baby to me.
 
8:09 PM
/.;,0.
 
Whomever first thought that variable names should be prefixed with $ is a terrible, terrible person.
 
Eh, PowerShell is similar to C# because they're both .NET
 
@AlexA. My first experience with Perl was my two teammates behind me at a competition saying "You forgot the dollar sign. You forgot the dollar sign. You forgot the dollar sign."
 
Also, whomever thought it was a good idea to use periods as part of a name (like .NET) was a terrible person.
 
@Rainbolt I'm sorry for your loss
 
8:10 PM
I lost a lot of $ that day
 
Anonymous
~!0!~('@"/(@`)~@``^"|'.(('"
_]'^'|"`&').('[)).["[}(@,@@
{~/),$}@{**(!(^$&%{%{*[/,`,
'^'+[@@/+{_`%@,/&[)@[@@_`[#
!(!~-/,[,[#{&%@').'"!"})'))
 
@PhiNotPi Yes
Whomever thought it was a good idea to innocuously allow . in R variable names but also use . for methods in names is a terrible person.
 
Python.Java.Script.NET
 
I soooooo wish I could have a Java backend and Python frontend supported by ASP.NET. That would be dreamy (for me anyway)
 
timmy.d is a valid variable name. But if d is an S3 class, timmy(x) will perform method dispatch if x has class d.
 
8:13 PM
With a Visual Studio built for Java specifically, instead of just tacked on
 
So Eclipse?
 
Microsoft® Visual Studio® PowerCVB#Shell.NET®
 
Anonymous
I want a universal IDE that can freely transpile between all languages, and compile to machine code, CLI, Java bytecode, Python bytecode, and fundamental physical constants. Also a pony.
 
Okay, start building one and I'll check back on your progress in 30 years.
 
Or this monstrosity:
Visual J# (pronounced "jay-sharp") programming language was a transitional language for programmers of Java and Visual J++ languages, so they could use their existing knowledge and applications on .NET Framework. J# worked with Java bytecode as well as source so it could be used to transition applications that used third-party libraries even if their original source code was unavailable. It was developed by the Hyderabad-based Microsoft India Development Center at HITEC City in India. == Fundamental differences between J# and JavaEdit == Java and J# use the same general syntax but there are non...
 
8:15 PM
@AlexA. That ... that's just someone being willfully evil.
 
Anonymous
I'll have it done by graduation
 
So you'll be like half way done when I check back in 30 years.
@TimmyD There are so, so many things I wish I could change about R. But at the same time, if you ignore a lot of the oddities and obvious design flaws, it's a pretty fun, useful language.
 
@AlexA. I only know R from University research teams that implement their algorithms in R and eventually realize that they have to rewrite the whole thing in C/++ because it is too damn slow.
 
Yeah, R is crazy slow.
 
Well, the PowerShell designers attempt to appease the *nix *sh-ers of the world --
PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> Get-Alias ls | FL


DisplayName       : ls -> Get-ChildItem
CommandType       : Alias
Definition        : Get-ChildItem
ReferencedCommand : Get-ChildItem
ResolvedCommand   : Get-ChildItem
 
PYTHON IS THE BEST!
2
 
PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> Get-Alias rm | FL

DisplayName       : rm -> Remove-Item
CommandType       : Alias
Definition        : Remove-Item
ReferencedCommand : Remove-Item
ResolvedCommand   : Remove-Item
And cp and diff and echo and ...
 
People demonize for loops in R for being slow. There is some merit to that claim, since loops carry around tons of baggage, but they aren't always bad. That said, one of the benefits of R is that a lot of the operations are vectorized, which is often considerably faster than the equivalent code using loops.
Also I really wish <<- (global assign) didn't exist.
 
> What's our vector, Victor?
 
What's the clearance, Clarence?
If I had any idea how, I'd make a JIT compiled R, like what Crystal is for Ruby.
 
8:24 PM
@AlexA. Can you call native DLLs in R?
 
Probably, though I haven't tried.
 
Then inline C or assembly isn't a problem. Just optimize the hotspots.
 
Oh, yeah. You can call compiled C and Fortran with .External or something like that. I forgot about that.
 
Yeah, but if you can call DLLs, you can JIT assembly and C. That's what we do to optimize AutoIt scripts.
 
Ooh, nice.
 
8:28 PM
Example: Really fast and simple byte compression: pastebin.com/39XxF4C5
Compiles to this: pastebin.com/31AYqWmT
 
That language looks eerily like Visual Basic.
 
Well, it's a BASIC dialect.
 
Oh, I didn't know that.
 
But it is really extensible. It arguably has the most inline flavors (assemblers, C, VB, JavaScript). And you can even change the paradigm by creating a library. I recently made one to make AutoIt object-oriented: github.com/minxomat/OOPEAu3
 
8:52 PM
Hi
 
@AlexA. Did I? :o
 
@SuperJedi224 hi
@FlagAsSpam BTW When do you get up? I forgot when not to ping ya
 

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