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7:13 PM
@ThomasOwens whoo!!
fuck me that takes a long time to organise
There should be a hat for participation in the Lounge, and it should be automatically and permanently pulled down over ones face.
I'm going to venture a guess that SE has lost all sense of humor when it comes to that room.
@GlenH7 they had one to begin with?
It was allowed to get to this point...
So, yeah, I'd argue that it was treated with a bit of sense of humor
I think SE might be overall caring more, there was the scifi kerfuffle recently too
7:19 PM
Yeah you know what it's bullshit like this that does it
and like this [SO 10k+ only]
@enderland Did they get their room back?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The title kinda strongly hints at something being wrong
I get that this is chat and we have the tendency to be a lenient with what is going on within this room but the title and subject should not be something that could be deemed offensive by users outside of the room. — bluefeet ♦ May 16 '14 at 23:18
Yeah some leniency
I suspect the reason that SE doesn't do more about controlling the rooms is that individual actions have to be addressed. And at that scale, it gets difficult. Simply freezing a room just pushes the bad behavior to other rooms.
And they've already made it aware that chat is dead last for priority
it's the ugly step child of the step child to SE
7:29 PM
The fact that it is difficult to get from Google to SE chat means the damage control is already mostly automatic.
except when the chat room shows up like that one did...
solution - even fewer links to chat on the main site
Solution- not the precipitate. Oops, that's chemistry.
Nah, let's just shut down all of chat
as a mod you could go through and delete/close all chat rooms. go go go! :P
7:36 PM
@enderland I think the SE employees would be fighting to be the one that pulled the trigger ending that one
or... maybe not, who knows
Now, if regular SE site mods had mod abilities in SO chat, that would be a bit more interesting
From a numbers perspective, SE side chat rooms get a lot more overall moderation as any SE site mod can moderate a SE side chat room
and no mod wants to wander onto SO chat..
But those same mods have no extra privileges over on SO chat
7:39 PM
@enderland I can't believe it's all as bad as The Lounge these past few days
Just using current numbers, so apply a liberal dose of salt:
18 SO mods, 33 rooms, 134 users
hundreds of SE mods, 85 rooms, 217 users
wow of those 217 I bet a large number are mods, too
Likely, yes
As those silly blue names tend to be more active on the network to begin with
especially now, with so many newer and smaller sites, a lot easier to become a moderator
7:48 PM
My recent favorite sing m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vy9ObEOVvg
Apropos of nothing, has anyone received their SO 10M Q swag yet?
Does anyone understand what this company does?
@ThomasOwens They enable the world’s best software talent to solve the world’s most ambitious problems, duh.
I am not sure how we solved any problems before they came along.
7:56 PM
@ThomasOwens IDK but their font choice is atrocious
it has built in artifacting
But seriously, I think they specialize in the usage of buzzwords.
They also apply Lean and Agile methodologies, along with our own Origin process, to deliver high velocity innovation.
@ThomasOwens they leverage the synergies to deliver customer satisfaction
I kind of want to email them and apply for a Software Engineer job just so I can learn what it is they do.
Their job postings are equally vague...
Check it out: Software Engineer and Product Manager and Operations Manager are totally open ended. The Product Strategist doesn't even do anything!
And they have no listing of benefits anywhere. I don't even know if they pay you!
why did I even click that link
another mouse scroll wheel destroyed
anyone involved with the web design at that site needs to be banned from computers for life
the irony so rich
beautiful visual designs, with our busted fonts and squiggly drawings
> Since our origin in 2007, [...]
agh, that is not how you use that word
@ThomasOwens a scotch on your family for linkbaiting me with that evilness
Unless you are being groomed via nepotism, there is precisely one person looking out for your career: you.
At the end of the day, the "big question" about your job really is just a balancing act. Some aspects will be good, some will be bad. What's the proportion of what matters to you?
In other words, it is okay to be selfish when it comes to your career. Sharing is not caring.
@JimmyHoffa I'd like a scotch, thanks.
8:16 PM
@ThomasOwens don't mind if I do!
@enderland What do you mean by "real software development"? How is "ETL stuff" different than "real software development"?
@ThomasOwens most of my projects look like:
minimal coding or any software design - all through a GUI type of tool
Oh. I see.
Is there any opportunity for you to start using more traditional programming languages to help with your work?
knowledge of software dev is ridiculously valuable for me (probably why I'm so good at this role) but ultimately this is not a primary dev
Even if it's smaller scripts or something?
8:24 PM
@ThomasOwens I've done a fair bit of small scripting yeah
Anything that you can slowly evolve to the point where it's noteworthy to mention on a resume? Like building something in Python or Ruby or Perl?
@ThomasOwens I'm not sure... not really. I've thought alot about how to do that, but realistically there's not much meaningful stuff
@enderland ABAP: For when SNOBOL is just too modern.
I guess it sounds like you've got some kind of database. If there are ways that you can use programming languages to interact with your data to give you insight you need to do better...
@ThomasOwens anybody stuck in ancient tech like him is working for an org that doesn't let developers have any say in decision making. He can't just choose to do better, most likely he is merely to be doing what he's told, as had the many before him which is why their stack is the same one it's been for well over 20 years.
(taking a guess here)
8:30 PM
@JimmyHoffa Right? Their font kerning is whack.
@enderland I pointed a UML generation tool at my project and it uninstalled iteself.
don't listen to people made of Snow, their brains are sloshing around in their heads. POSIX is made of C for threads and computers. Because computers change we don't want to use the C and so the POSIX has been upgraded to POSCUDA and we are going to liberate the multi-cloud-core's critical potential without the C anymore. — Jimmy Hoffa 18 secs ago
Nov 6 at 20:35, by enderland
2 days ago, by Jimmy Hoffa
yesterday, by MichaelT
Jul 28 '14 at 18:52, by Jimmy Hoffa
<--- Helping.
@JimmyHoffa hm, I seem to have misplaced my troll repellent...
@JimmyHoffa Not helping
@GlenH7 too much scotch, perhaps?
but it made me feel helpful, don't like denigrate my feelings; man!
8:34 PM
@JimmyHoffa Remember, we're trying to keep the main site S:N ratio nice and high. Chat is a bit more tolerant to rants stemming from too much blood in the alcohol scotch stream.
speaking of scotch, I'm heading to the store this afternoon. I ought to pick up something new.
@Ampt the real question is, was that the desired outcome? :D
@ThomasOwens I work in middleware, so I don't really work with the data itself - more helping business teams work with the data
@enderland so you don't really take the requirements to the engineers, your secretary does that?
@JimmyHoffa thats close, not quite that old of tech (the specific tool I work with is somewhat new, actually, like 10 years old :P) but yeah, it's kind of like that. we are an internal service, helping other teams connect systems together
@enderland Mostly I wanted to put a bug in your ear so you considered the potentials. It sounds like there may be dramatic change regardless of which path you end up following.
8:37 PM
@enderland I see.
@ThomasOwens Think of an analytics team for a global supply chain company.
and to be clear, I am really good at this role. If I want to make tons of $ for my life? I'm set
@GlenH7 for the islay flavor, I encourage a try of:
I am very detail oriented and analytical
@JimmyHoffa price range?
8:38 PM
@JimmyHoffa my favorite drink by far is Irish Cream on ice
@GlenH7 $42 locally I believe
okay, that's within what I was thinking of for today. And I haven't had an islay in a while
@GlenH7 it would be, but might also increase the bus factor? not sure. It'd be one of those "opportunities to shine" though yes
increasing the bus factor when it's in your favor isn't always bad
On a slightly related note; I'm not sure what this is yet, but at first glance it seems quite relevant for us.
8:42 PM
Did MEAN pick up an additional S?
@GlenH7 MongoDB, Express.js, Angular.js, Node.js, Scotch.
I refract what I just said, they're adulterating one of life's purest joys by slapping it on their PHP "front-end is programming!" company. Heresy, nothing more.
@ThomasOwens We have no need for Express or Node, but I'd be lobbying hard to convert the team over to MEANS if it were true
@JimmyHoffa reFract?
@GlenH7 do you adject to what I said?
8:48 PM
also interesting tidbit of info, that bookmarklet seems to let you edit deleted messages
@JimmyHoffa Can you blame them for the obviously large quantities they are consuming based upon their language of choice?
@enderland Really? That's interesting...
yeah. hey cool
That's a very nifty tool then
As it can be a way to purge information even if the message has been deleted
8:50 PM
@GlenH7 I begrudge them not their language, rather it is their fanciful marketeering themselves as "software" folk when the extent of their capitulates is WordPress scripting and CSS wizardry.
hi all
@durron597 Hey! How you've been?
so i'm caving and signing on to this chatroom from work. if anyone gets mad at me i'll suffer the consequences
@durron597 hey; here I was thinking you were disallowed from participating here altogether
8:53 PM
anything i say in this room is a statement that reflects only my opinion as an individual, not as a member of any company or organization
@durron597 You've got tons of mod friends that can craft alibis. It's all good.
@durron597 enjoying yourself? Is your brain starting to feel full yet?
cry at your desk yet? :D
@JimmyHoffa Well I've heard so many conflicting things
@GlenH7 if nothing else, you could just nuke his account; durron? Nope, not him, not here, nope! Nobody no idea!
8:54 PM
lol. sent my boss an email being glad two of our consultants are talking and got this back:
> Okay, but if they are talking about doing it wrong, would be better if they don’t communicate at all.
@JimmyHoffa they've really messed up the whole concept too. Who puts Scotch on their output? It should be scotch.i
I've taken the StackOverflow training course (and it actually tries to teach the people how to write good questions and answers, in addition to the PR advisories!)
@Ampt here here!
@durron597 that's so awesome you have one of those. LOL
@durron597 Yeah, you could use some help with crafting good answers. :-P
8:55 PM
@durron597 that is really cool haha
@durron597 what? seriously?
your company has a course on SO etiquette? We should send them a friggin gift basket
What a great idea. If I'm ever in the position of ordering a company around, I will totally order them all to spend a day learning that. Right after I blow my brains out because ordering a company around sounds like my definition of hell.
@JimmyHoffa You don't strike me as the type to want to run a company
@GlenH7 I hardly want to run a car, but the liquor store is like a good two blocks away... c'est la vie.
8:57 PM
@durron597 I see that you're already indispensable there.
Q: How do mermaids perform major surgical procedure underwater?

user6760Suppose the mermaids share similar intelligent and technology with us, they also practise performing surgical operation like we do in hospital. Negate the issue of negligent during the operation the most critical problem is contamination that often reduce the chances of success, how can the merma...

Q: How can a shapeshifted jaguar perform a blood transfusion on a dying person?

Arthaey Angosii(I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. My assumptions below are based on reading Wikipedia, so they are very likely to be incorrect. ;) Any corrections are welcome.) So there's this woman who has been injured and is bleeding out. Our Hero is with her, but there is no one else around to hel...

ahhh and corporate subservience has begun it's lesson upon you!
Gotta love world-building.
@RobertHarvey i have already fixed a bug that persisted for over a month before i was hired.
it took me 2 hours to prove that it was the backend provided by another team that was causing the problem, and the fix was deployed two days later.
on the topic of scotch
so i'm on a team that has a beer fridge, but i have never actually seen anyone drink beer at the office since i started on nov 9
9:00 PM
We're like the polar opposite of The Lounge.
if that gives some insight into the culture on my team
awkward pictures of little kids @RobertHarvey?
wait... maybe that's not the right comparison ;)
@durron597 Wait, WAT?
@durron597 what about that foosball table?
so HA!
9:01 PM
Their latest argument: "Y'all are all just a bunch of prudes/rednecks."
@Ampt higher numbers are better here
@RobertHarvey we're not the ones making misogynistic comments in our spare time?
@GlenH7 i no rite?
(removed) for anything even remotely controversial.
I definitely wouldn't fit into that culture...
9:02 PM
@durron597 I would be the guy that takes the first drink and gets fired for slacking off
@JimmyHoffa That creeps me out.
alternatively everyone there has wanted to have a beer on Friday afternoon but no one has been gutsy enough to do it
@RobertHarvey My pet theory of the day is that the mod : chat room ratio is out of whack on SO.
1 hour ago, by GlenH7
Just using current numbers, so apply a liberal dose of salt:
18 SO mods, 33 rooms, 134 users
hundreds of SE mods, 85 rooms, 217 users
@GlenH7 because you think there shouldn't be a beer fridge or you think everyone should be drinking it?
9:02 PM
@durron597 bit of the old "Yes, we will give you everything you could possibly want! But you're only allowed to do what you're told." there?
@RobertHarvey get the friggin shortcut
2 mins ago, by enderland
awkward pictures of little kids @RobertHarvey?
@JimmyHoffa it's not a rules thing, it's a team culture
Tried the shortcut. I need an installer.
stuff like that might just require one person to break the ice, too
9:03 PM
@durron597 ah; team just doesn't drink? Straight laced team?
@RobertHarvey installer? What?
@enderland is correct, i'm sure drinking beer on friday afternoon would be fine but we're all too scared.
@durron597 yeah, seriously. Why bother if no one is going to use it
which browser are you using
9:03 PM
@Ampt IE?
@enderland Flagged as offensive.
@durron597 scared of the big giant hand? So what you're saying is the beer fridge is some kind of loyalty test?
But Firefox, IE and Edge are available.
Chrome works fine
well, i might start on friday afternoon. my inferiority complex was stopping me, but now i've seen myself make significant contributions to the team so i'm willing to start bending the rules now
like, coming into this room.
9:04 PM
What's the magic incantation?
@RobertHarvey settings bar -> bookmarks -> bookmark manager
right click in empty space -> add page
javascript:$('.message:has(.deleted)').each(function(){var mid=this.id.split('-')[1];$.get('http://chat.stackexchange.com/messages/'+mid+'/‌​history',function(data){$('#message-'+mid).css('color','red').html($(data).find('‌​.message:eq(0)').html())})})
@durron597 cheers. Hope it all works. So far, enjoying the work? Lots of learning?
paste that in, name it whatever
nobody tells you anything here. my team room has a table full of snacks but i didn't know the system, so i was like "am i supposed to bring a bag of chips or cookies to be allowed to eat, share an share alike, or is it being provided?"
come back to chat
attempt to open the bookmark
9:05 PM
it took me three weeks to finally find out the PM was buying it for us
@durron597 Really? Yikes, y'all need to chit chat a bit more then...
@GlenH7 too busy being afraid of the beer fridge.
well, i didn't want to be like "is this your food? YOINK" moocher type
it's just first few weeks nerves
@durron597 True, but someone should have shown you the lay of the land on the first day or so
9:06 PM
@durron597 is there no team cube chatter while you're working 'n such?
oh god
@GlenH7 plot twist: it's a form of team hazing. how long can we keep the new hire in the dark about everything!
a lot of the new members want us to get a slack or a hipchat or something
@Ampt It. has. a. light. It. Glows! Gah!!!
including me. but the team orthodoxy is to use Lync which is just a really terrible program
9:07 PM
Lync was better pre-skype. Regardless, I just meant physical chatter
it does have the advantage of allowing you to chat anyone in the company
@durron597 what version of lync? I don't mind 2013
Doesn't work.
@enderland I'm using Lync for Mac 2011
@durron597 very handy in large orgs - times will occur when you need to contact people you have no idea who or where they are except they're on an e-mail chain or a commit log or something
9:08 PM
Goes in the URL, right?
@durron597 lync on mac is asking for a swift and sudden death
@RobertHarvey yeah
that JS runs when you request that bookmark, which does the magic
@Ampt My laptop is a macbook. my desktop is ubuntu. i am trying to stay as far away from winblows as i can
Meh. Color me underwhelmed.
gahh I literally made a screen-grab step-by-step on how to make bookmarklets for somebody in here just the other day...
@durron597 oh. oooooh.
9:09 PM
@RobertHarvey did it work or not?
Didn't work.
@RobertHarvey have you tried harder?
(Thinks Robert is secretly using IE and hoping no one will notice)
anyway, my productivity per unit time is so much higher here than it was at my old job
@JimmyHoffa I'll echo the comment of corp wide chat via lync being incredibly helpful
9:10 PM
also, I'm imagining this as a stack overflow question/comment thread back and forth and it's highly amusing me ;)
I pushed the mouse button real hard. Didn't seem to make a difference.
@RobertHarvey try saying the magic words when you do it
i can't figure out if it's because 1) the work is new and interesting 2) i like the work and team a lot more or 3) i was so nervous to go on SO/SE that i just had a lot more hours in my day
probably some combination of all three
Expedia Petronum
@durron597 definitely number 3
9:11 PM
RIP reputation
I've wondered how much work I could finish if I never was on SE :|
i got my 20k on SO. i feel no need to go there anymore. also now that i actually like my job, my desire to run for SO moderator plummeted to zero
@JimmyHoffa: I think I'm going to change my approach to the Rules Engine. Instead of using the Micro Rules Engine, I think I'm just going to write a lambda expression for each of the rules, and then stitch them together with Predicate Builder.
@RobertHarvey you added it via the bookmark manager, yes?
if i were still at my old job i would have definitely run last month.
@Ampt Yep.
9:12 PM
@Ampt not the working
your snippet were the no rights
@JimmyHoffa That way, I can still run each rule individually and log it.
javascript:$('.message:has(.deleted)').each(function(){var mid=this.id.split('-')[1];$.get('http://chat.stackexchange.com/messages/'+mid+'/‌​‌​history',function(data){$('#message-'+mid).css('color','red').html($(data).find‌​('‌​.message:eq(0)').html())})})
paste that into a notepad to remove any weird characters
that's the bookmarklet I have in Chrome
9:13 PM
then try it
@RobertHarvey I would have avoided the built-in expressions - I think you just need to like you said, use a hard-coded function body... here, one second.
wow, i just looked more carefully at the results. i know 5 of the 6 top users except for the guy who came in fourth, who i don't think i've ever seen.
i'm stunned whoever that guy is beat out Undo and Thomas
@durron597 it was an interesting race from that perspective
@Ampt Stubborn little bugger.
Seems as if Chrome is munging some of the code.
@RobertHarvey really?
9:18 PM
like I said, just copy and paste it into notepad to strip weird characters
Firefox isn't happy with it either. Or I'm doing something wrong. It kicks me over to a new page that says "[object Object]"
@GlenH7 same here, I thought the solution is "use Chrome for SE chat"
this is amusing to me. I just assumed "worked for me, would work for others"
9:21 PM
I'm blaming firefox then
if someone wouldn't have cleared out the pins, enderlands link to that meta post would have helped :P
javascript:$('.message:has(.deleted)').each(function(){var mid=this.id.split('-')[1];$.get('http://chat.stackexchange.com/messages/'+mid+'/‌​history',function(data){$('#message-'+mid).css('color','red').html($(data).find('%E2%80%8C%E2%80%8B.message:eq(0)').html())})})
@Ampt I pinged it to durron at least...
@Ampt relatively certain I didn't clear the pin on that one. :-)
> %E2%80%8C%E2%80%8B
I think that's your problem.
9:23 PM
Pasted it from the raw pastebin, finally worked.
Phew. No more "show history"
@GlenH7 someone did. lets get 'em
Oh boy, super interesting question but probably better suited to a discussion over beer after work than Programmers. It seems to rub you the wrong way. Did someone's ORM-oriented thinking cause a problem? If it did, depending on what it was, maybe we can solve it here. Try us. — Scant Roger 20 secs ago
I want to suggest chat for this but.. seems like a rant
Rant in disguise
Sounds like a punk rock band name
or the chicago housing market
Boy, that bookmark is some delicate flower. I edited it to change its name, and it broke the Javascript again, had to repaste it from the pastebin.
Rent in da skys
9:33 PM
@Ampt its too damn high
not as bad as NY, but still ridiculous
@RobertHarvey look at this approach: dotnetfiddle.net/2lDioB
@enderland the guy in that WP article looks kinda like Hulk Hogan if not for those mutton chops.
@Snowman when he ran a few years ago his webpage looked like it was a straight up geocities site
@RobertHarvey alternatively, you can use the original object-modeled-AST you wanted, and create a piece that reads the objects->and turns them into those lambda functions. I would avoid .NET's default expressions; they're hinky and not pleasant to work with IME
9:43 PM
@JimmyHoffa I like that, Chief. I felt like I was beginning to get wrapped around the axle with Expressions.
Now I just need to add some functions for the logging.
@RobertHarvey refresh it and see quick way to add logging
Yep. That'll work. Thanks very much.
I'll save the Expressions stuff for when I write my first Scheme compiler.
@RobertHarvey yeah, the expressions get squirrely. Creating an expression tree object model is a none-too-messy thing as you saw, but starting to turn it into .NET's expressions it becomes messy, better just evaluating the object model itself directly.
I'm starting to suspect that I might not even need Expressions if I write an interpreter instead of a compiler.
... the hell was the point of that?
9:52 PM
you ask this as if most chat flags are valid
account "FlagAsSpam" posts picture of SPAM, get's flagged. Who goes out of their way to create entire accounts just to ... ???
More than anything I'm just curious 'the hell The Nineteenth Byte is now..
@JimmyHoffa codegolf's chat room, iirc
Yeah, I think that's who it belongs to.
Somebody trying to be funny. Not succeeding.
@JimmyHoffa FlagAsSpam is a productive member of our community.
Not the best username though...
9:55 PM
@Dennis ..ok. Scotch is a productive member of ours, so I guess I'll just continue being a dead teamster.
(or am I dead?? You don't know! Nobody does! Whoa!)
@JimmyHoffa You're seriously way too far on the too much blood in the alcohol stream today... :-)
Which would imply: "blame (lack of) scotch"
@GlenH7 iduno, I think I did a pretty nice stab on that little C# boolean junk
also what is this darkness at 4:00pm seriously
@enderland they're called clouds. Alternatively, Welcome to Wisconsin, I hope Santa's Reindeer aren't too annoying up there.
10:18 PM
Perhaps this is a better fit for programmers.stackexchange.com ? Programmers Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for professionals and students in software development and related fields who are interested in getting expert answers on conceptual questions about software development.Marged 44 secs ago
@Duga Why do people always use code markup to quote things? There are like, “quote marks”, right on the keyboard…
> It's nice to make a very clear distinction between what is and isn't a quote beyond just the "s
@amon because it's cool
and to differentiate between actual quotes and scare quotes
Ah, the pains of being a typography nerd. Completely unrelatedly, I just printed out a LaTeX'd document and can't get over how awesome it looks :)
10:28 PM
@amon could you quantify the coolness for us please?
@Ampt wait a sec, LaTeX should calculate a “badness” for the layout which it tries to minimize.
@amon ERROR does not compute - why would you want to do that
Perhaps you should move your question to programmers.stackexchange.com because it does not follow the rules set for SO. — Marged 31 secs ago
I'm pretty sure it's not "should calculate" and is "does calculate"
@Marged - this question would be off-topic for Programmers. — GlenH7 just now
10:33 PM
I can't convince the compiler to output any badness, so clearly the document is optimal. Take that, MS Word!
Commas are hard.
Metafont forever!
In Fluid Concepts there was a page of meta font that slowly turned the knobs glyph by glyph from one font to another.
Fluid Concepts and Creative Analogies: Computer Models of the Fundamental Mechanisms of Thought is a 1995 book by Douglas Hofstadter and other members of the Fluid Analogies Research Group exploring the mechanisms of intelligence through computer modeling. It contends that the notions of analogy and fluidity are fundamental to explain how the human mind solves problems and to create computer programs that show intelligent behavior. It analyzes several computer programs that members of the group have created over the years to solve problems that require intelligence. == Origin of the book == The...
At least, I think it was that book.
10:46 PM
Chapter 10 has some neat things for computer / typography nerds... Like @amon
You might want to have a look at the rules at programmers.stackexchange.com because I think this might be a better place to move your question too because it is likely to be off topic for SO. — Marged 52 secs ago
In case any of you haven't noticed; San Bernadino unfortunateness currently. :/
Why does that user, after being rebuked once for recommending Programmers, turn around and do the same thing a few minutes later?
@Marged this question would need a little more work to be an acceptable design review question at Programmers. Specifically, it might be a little too broad. — Snowman 54 secs ago
11:33 PM
Reopening this. It's nominally on-topic, and although I'd advised the room regulars to let it drop, they appear to be all about continuing the argument as long as possible - therefore, I'm using their responses here as input in a proposal I'm drafting for new chat guidelines. As the old saying goes: when life gives you lemons, rub them all over and enjoy the sensation. — Shog9 ♦ 2 hours ago
11:49 PM
@Shog9 if you're drafting some rules, can that, just make a simple regexp replacement that replaces any untoward statements with "Scotch sure is fine!" or "Happy Coffee Day!"
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