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12:01 AM
Question came up on Programmers and I am not sure if this would be a migration candidate. Feedback?
Q: How to denote/refer 'user' in the following case?

Manmohan SinghI have to write API documentation for a mobile loyalty program and I am doubting how to go through this... 1) The user asks its visit to be registered. 2) The user asks his/her visit to be registered. In context of Technical Writing, which sentence is correct and why? If none is correct, pleas...

1:06 AM
@Snowman A user is an animate antecedent; you cannot call them an it.
Although I realize that doesn't address your migratory concerns.
@tchrist Oh I know the answer, neither option is correct. But it does not change the off-topicness at Programmers
In my personal opinion, the question is too basic for ELU, and also too duplicative. It also fails our research requirements.
There is always ELL, but it still might not survive.
I doubt Writers would take it.
@tchrist Good enough for me, the question is Roomba-eligible now.
Well, in a coupla hours. :)
Yeah, it does seem a bit basic even if the asker genuinely put some effort into it and appears to be an ESL speaker.
1:18 AM
Which is why I asked here instead of flagging, which typically ends in tears after it gets migrated and either rejected or immediately closed.
I doubt it would get migrated without negotiation, and I doubt that negotiation would lead to migration. I could be wrong.
@Snowman I don't think it is suitable here unless it were more specific about pronoun use, and then I think it's a duplicate anyway. I asked the Writers mods because I think they are looking for more technical writing types of questions and maybe they could edit into something they would like.
2:05 AM
@KitZ.Fox If they want to migrate and edit it then they are free to flag it so a Programmers mod can migrate it. I already edited it to be a little bit better.
2:18 AM
@KitZ.Fox I missed your IPA ping.
I'll catch it in the morning. Virtually in bed already.
[ SmokeDetector ] Few unique characters in answer, repeating words in answer: "Enclosure" vs. "attachment" by user149668 on english.stackexchange.com
9 hours later…
11:50 AM
I couldn't believe what I saw on @C4Countdown today, it was just bang out of order. http://t.co/msmjNitsJD
you need to see the photo for it to make sense
12:09 PM
@MattE.Эллен Is 'bang out of order' a saying?
I had no idea that Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of Man, and Gibraltar all had their own two-letter country domains.
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot yes. it's used in contexts where one person feels wronged by another, or feels the other person has wronged someone else. "What you said about my mum was bang out of order", similar in meaning to "out of line"
12:30 PM
Q: "Thou shalt not pass" and "You shall not pass" hybrid

DopappIs it technically incorrect grammar to make a hybrid of the well known statements: "Thou shalt not pass" and "You shall not pass"––this hybrid being: "You shalt not pass"? From what I understand from not 100% trustworthy sources (Wikipedia), "Thou shalt not" is used by the KJV (Ten Commandments,...

^^^^^ balrog ^^^^^
It's curious how ELU's site analytics shows a notable slump last week for the long Thanksgiving holiday, but that SO’s do not. Anybody have any idea that might help account for that?
I’m talking about traffic.
Spanish.SO should open to private beta later today.
Get in early, get shiny badgers in mint condition.
12:49 PM
They miss Reg and Rob?
Chat certainly has been deadish.
I was referring to main site traffic, actually.
If you remove two of the top users from the main site and chat, other users' interest may flag, which results in fewer interesting posts and less traffic eventually?
They are not removed from the main site or chat. Rob has chosen to leave. Reg is avoiding chat for obvious reasons. He hasn't left the main site.
But has he been active?
One thing is bound to affect another.
@Cerberus Yes. You can see for yourself (I think) the last time he visited
12:55 PM
It affects the community in untraceable ways.
Yes, visited; but that doesn't say how active he has been.
@Cerberus Pretty active.
And that’s just the user activity log, not his moderator activities.
I miss him, but I cannot condemn anyone for not wanting to fritter away their lives in chat.
@tchrist That doesn't look that active to be honest, 5-6 day gap, 2-3 day gap
Although 2-3 day gaps aren't that uncommon from deeper history
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot English has this concept called le weekend.
@tchrist It is not he whom you ought to condemn anyway.
12:59 PM
@Cerberus And who am I to judge?
@tchrist I have never seen fritter used like this.
Really good use!
@tchrist I'm not asking you to judge.
I do wonder whether SE really thinking censorship is worth all this.
It being the main cause of the break-up in our community.
That chat flags are suboptimal is no news.
@Cerberus I don't personally.
@tchrist It is to the people at SE, apparently. But what I mean is that they don't seem to realise how big the problems are that it creates (and how small the problems that it solves).
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot So you would like to read this link eh?
1:02 PM
@Cerberus Yes!
Rob's farewell post.
Holy moly(got it open, so you can delete if you wish)
You managed to read the deleted message?
I think Rob is OK with anybody reading this; he just didn't want a voting contest or a Meta discussion.
No, I just meant I opened the imgur in a second tab, so you can delete that from chat if you think Kit is going to punish you(don't know if it's against the rules)
That's funny.
1:04 PM
@Cerberus There is no shortage of discussion about chat flags on MSE.
I really care about the opinion of people like Kit.
@tchrist Yes, but the one person from SE who came here on the day of drama was 100% unaware of the problems they created when I talked to her about it.
Or seemed.
I myself am flagged maybe once a year, so I don't care about it for myself.
@Cerberus I honestly do not understand why you feel the way you do in some of this, but I have the memory of goldfish.
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot It's fine, as it was deleted not because of what it said, but because the person who posted it didn't want a pointless argument to break out in the comments
@tchrist The flag system has caused huge problems for years, and now it is the direct cause of Reg and Rob's leaving the site; that's why I feel so strongly about this. The rest I don't really care about.
Now I have to go, work time.
1:09 PM
@tchrist some clever tyke has already taken wp.gg (beware it redirects to a Russian site)
@Cerberus These messages make me depressed for some reason.
Wow I never saw Rob's goodbye message.
@Mitch You have sufficient rep to read it here: meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/7337/…
I must have not had the right timing
What I want to know is....
Who the hell are these cats he's gotten apologies from? Those bastards don't care at all.
ducks and runs
1:17 PM
@Mitch Did you click the link? I really wanted to know where it went :D
@Cerberus Are you sure Robusto wants you to post these images?
@JasperLoy Why not?
@JasperLoy I feel that justice has not been served.
I cannot understand how @robusto and @cerberus feel about the various things that happened as described in that deleted meta post, but surely you can forget about this and move on, and make up with @KitZ.Fox?
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot I feel you should not feel this way when you are a relatively new user who doesn't know these users well.
@JasperLoy I read the histories of their messages and the more I read the worse it feels.
1:26 PM
I am also sorry I indirectly caused @robusto and @KitZ.Fox to fall out in the first place, even though it is not my fault in this case.
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot Look, I have been here for 4 years.
@JasperLoy Don't Link her, I'll get banned I think.
I won't comment here anymore.
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot No, you would not. You saying that shows you don't know stuff.
Well, maybe @MattE.Эллен can do something to help the situation? I don't know. Maybe we should just wait and see.
I don't think there's anything more I can do. I've talked to everyone and they're still the same. I think we just need to give it time.
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot There's nothing to be afraid of. @Kit is a good and decent mod.
1:41 PM
People are not perfect. We need to give some room for ourselves and others to make mistakes, just some room. QED.
@MattE.Эллен Well said.
Well well well, trying to enjoy our time here without Reg & Rob is like swimming in an empty pool.
@JasperLoy Being the target of meanness doesn't make you the cause of it. You don't own that. It's not your fault.
@Cerb, I'm deleting your screenshots because Rob didn't want that post available to everyone or he wouldn't have deleted it. He also didn't want folks ruminating over it.
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot You won't get banned for asking questions. I am curious to know why you are so interested in getting involved in drama that took place before you joined us. I'd also like to make sure that you know that you are only reading one side of the story.
@Gigili Which part are you missing? Banter or pics?
2:11 PM
@KitZ.Fox Where do I find your perspective written out?
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot You don't.
@KitZ.Fox Why not?
Moderators don't discuss disciplinary action publicly.
You haven't explained why you are so interested in the situation.
@KitZ.Fox Why not be? Do you suspect I am a sock-puppet?
It's not the first or only chat drama ever. It's not even the most dramatic.
So what is it about this particular case that has your interest?
2:15 PM
@KitZ.Fox It seems especially unjust.
Really? How so?
I guess I feel that being removed from the owners list is a particularly painful thing.
Has that happened to you before?
No, but neither have I been shot, and I can imagine the pain.
Well, I think maybe you have an odd sense of what room ownership means.
2:17 PM
Is 'neither have I been...' correct English?
Yes, it's very good and proper.
@KitZ.Fox I dunno, it just feels like a cool thing to be.
@KitZ.Fox I am proud of myself on that one then!
It was well done.
2:18 PM
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot OK. It's a privilege, and I can understand that removing ownership -- removing that privilege -- might be painful. I am sure you can imagine a situation in which that is completely warranted.
I guess I didn't really get what Cer did wrong.
I feel like if he was causing a negative impact, it would be fair, but from memory the reason was that he wasn't generating positive impact.
And for context, you should also be aware that stackwide chat has been in serious turmoil, across many different rooms, not just this one. Reviewing room ownership was one of the tasks that was meant to help bring the situation under control.
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot He didn't do anything wrong. He wasn't using the moderation tools, so I revoked ownership.
Do you think that there was motive for him to abuse them?
The current move is toward fewer room owners and more mod presence.
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot I do not believe that Cerb would intentionally abuse mod powers.
@KitZ.Fox I guess that seems reasonable.
Is 'Do you think there was motive' wrong, until you had 'that', i.e. "Do you think that there was motive"?
2:26 PM
The 'that' is optional. I can't remember what you call it.
Also, what about the 'Do', is it fine to say 'You think there was motive...'?
'Do' helps signal that it is a question. Dropping it implies that you assume that the answer is 'yes', but are confirming it.
Also is Regs pinned star really wrong? 'Nobody is under no' is a double negative, and he starts the second sentence with 'So' which should have just been a comma?
@KitZ.Fox Oh that's a good analysis! That's why I added it, I'm pretty sure.
@I'mmostlyjustanidiot It's stylistic and reveals some dialectal character.
By putting it in a lower register, I feel it emphasizes the point better.
I'm not sure if that was his intent.
One more question, sorry for the barrage: Is apostrophe 's' for ownership or not? I have read conflicting things!

Reg's star, or Regs star?
2:30 PM
Apostrophe s for possessive, yes. Reg's star.
We have a whole set of questions about that. You want me to help you find them?
@KitZ.Fox Nah, I have to leave now, thanks though! Thanks for these answers!
Sure thing.
2:43 PM
I can't be the only one to whom the word "complacent" seems better suited to describe meanings closer to: hesitant, temptation, reluctance, uncertainity, am I?
It's a weird feeling I have.
Eh. I can see that. I feel it's closer to apathy, but it's certainly related.
Reluctance to change to status quo.
Hm, yeah, that one too. But, I wander why we feel this way though.
'The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.'
Why complacency has a bad rep, I think. ^
That's one way to look at it. Spot on!
3:00 PM
Or 'The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity'. wait...conviction must be somehow an opposite of complacency
@Mitch Awesome.
both guys are hilarious in different ways. the utlra academic code switching, or the poutine-eater
That's pretty sweet.
It's the universal first language lesson everyone should get.
- Hello/Good Bye
- Help!
- Shit!
Those were the first words invented by homo sapiens
You forgot "Where is the bathroom?" and "Another beer, please."
3:22 PM
all I have is vodka
Do they drink beer in Russia?
do they go to the toilet?
Is a bear catholic?
Is a Dr Who Lego kit sitting on my table waiting for me to build it?
I think they're Greek Orthodox
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 that was quick
Comes with the latest and previous doctor.
Quick as in, built? Or bought? The local toys r us released then early.
also, your room is very white
series 9 is so good, by the way
if you haven't seen it, yet
3:49 PM
I don't watch the show
I bought this kit for the blue pieces and the cute daleks
And the weeping angel minifig
:D ah, fair enough.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 what do you think of the architectural kits? Like the Sydney Opera house? Are they acceptable Lego?
Gah! google translate sucks when it makes mistakes and is magical when it doesn't.
They're good kits. The huge Sydney opera House is awesome. But huge.
The architecture sets sometimes have really good building techniques. The UN building is very cleverly made.
The way that tower is made do that the time edges line up with the roof, which is one stud bigger than the rest of the tower... With no gaps to speak of... Awesome.
I bet they're expensive, but have lots of pieces that are new/interesting/non-traditional, but not so overengineered, they can still be used more generally.
They're expensive. They are mostly made of tiny pieces. If you want lots of tiny pieces, they're great parts packs. Otherwise, they're best at being display pieces.
Also, it's a myth that there are "over engineered" pieces.
See my blog post which explains why
4:45 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh.
Nice cake
I think maybe envy is involved in disparaging those 'special case' sets for those who didn't get them for xmas that year that Star Wars came out. I'm just imagining is all.
5:04 PM
6:00 PM
I was going to ask a question on main about what the post positions in English are (like 'ago' and 'notwithstanding') but I see that that question has already been asked.
I just thought you guys would want to know that.
18 mins ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
I myself wondered at the propriety of you posting screencaps of Rob's note here considering the lengths he went through to keep it private.
I don't think you people are thinking enough about what I feel.
I'd show you all a magic trick, except it's really hard to show things here, and I don't know any magic tricks.
Except for the 'quarter behind your ear' trick.
and that didn't even work on the 6 year old I last tried it on.
Stupid kids
So the parents got divorced. THere was a lot of screaming and blaming and things that were true and not true being said that shouldn't have been said.
I hid underneath the stairs.
But we went to McDonald's for dinner every night that week so it wasn't so bad
@Mitch did you see Harry there?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ha ha. No.
You got robbed.
6:06 PM
There were a couple feathers.
that's odd. He never kept his owl there.
bloody feathers.
@JasperLoy Did you see the entire list of Wrong Door? Or whatever that series was?
@Mitch Wrong Turn. I saw all 6. Violence and sex.
well, 6 is a lot
I saw... crap...already forgot
Jurassic World
Like Star Wars or Harry Potter or Hobbit/LOTR
6:08 PM
God that was idiotic.
And now also Prometheus/Alien
except for the dinosaurs eating people.
Please can we take the chat to the room I have set up for it. Otherwise I will have to stop the chat in here.
@MattE.Эллен Mellen?
Sort of like how Rathony and Ricky are both posting very tendentious everything, leading one to think they are the same person. Also, sam first letter clinches it.
@MattE.Эллен Speak Mattellen and enter
6:12 PM
A: Is there a male counterpart to being a virgin?

Jasper LoyIn English, virgin can be used to refer to a person who has never had sex or a person who has no experience in a particular activity. This person may be male or female.

I am so proud.
I capped on both days.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 There's a new DSM-V diagnosis, sleep-ditzness.
@JasperLoy wow. nice. sex cells.
@Mitch Yeah soon I will be the 40 year old virgin.
@JasperLoy Not the first, nor the last.
btw if you haven't watched it, the show "Orphan Black" is pretty good.
6:17 PM
when is the next season starting?
Tatiana Maslany plays a series of clones. There are 4 main ones in the first season. And she somehow manages to make them all believable and recognizable.
@Mitch Dunno I'm only on season 1.
keep going
Maslany should get repeat credits for all the characters she plays
in the same scenes even
it's almost like showing off
The website says it will air on bbc america in 2016
I get a kick out of the show (first season, anyway) being set in Toronto.
Did you ever see any places you recognize?
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: MOVING FORWARD - WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE FUTURE? by Bopamamie on english.stackexchange.com
6:31 PM
@JasperLoy While everybody is in the other room, we should make revolutionary pronouncements, take over the world, and then really start to do things.
First thing, Nutella for everyone!
Wait... keep quiet for the moment... I feel like someone's looking over my shoulder.
I should never have put that mirror there behind me while at my desk.
Still there.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 DIdn't that dude from 'My Left Foot' have to live under the stairs?
Being that it was a 'terrible Irish childhood' I'd say that would have been glorious, so lucky to have a staircase to be under.
Here I am again, just me and SmokeDetector
It's alone but not lonely.
A lot of space for ones thoughts.
Unencumbered by distraction.
Thoughts falling over one another
like a waterfall that feeds itself.
one lost soul, swimming in a fishbowl
Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
And did they get you to trade your heros for plagiarists of lyrics?
@Mitch What is your security clearance, Citizen?
Hot ashes for trees?
@MετάEd Here's my clearance m***** f*****. punches in face
Ow. that hurts. what do you have in that face mask?
Dammit Mitch, now I have a really good song in my head.
ha ha. what is that other song? Dumm dumm de dum dum, dum diddly dum de de de dum?
@Mitch Verrry lively indeed.
6:47 PM
@Cerberus I think the key to poetry is to start writing things that sort maybe make sense and then slowly veer off into randomess. 'So deep. So so deep.'
Just draw a diagram or an equation.
That is exactly what some kinds of modern poetry seem like, sometimes.
If it doesn't contain logic or quantity, commit it to the flames.
@Mitch Warbots are being deployed. Remain calm. The Computer Is Your Friend.
6:49 PM
@Cerberus Sincerely, I had that problem in highschool. I couldn't tell the difference in poetry written with an obvious intent and those that others considered unfathomable. It was all unfathomable to me.
Al those words.
like a foreign language written in English
Like a book that couldn't be opened at either end
Where you couldn't lift even your little finger without it being called indecent.
@Mitch Now, now. How about the Odyssey?
'Read' that in a prose translation.
and by 'read' I mean everything I know about was talked about in class by the teacher.
@Mitch Yeah, I wasn't quite ready for certain genres of poetry either at that age, and I'm still not, depending on the genre.
'wine-red sea'? I only heard about that a couple years ago.
Well, what's wrong with that?
I mean, there isn't a super special meaning behind it?
Nor an obscure reference, so far as I know.
6:59 PM
@Cerberus well, I guess it is a philologically interesting thing. maybe just under the 'obscurity threshold' to be mentioned in (American) high school
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 over the past couple weeks I found almost all Pink Floyd's albums on Youtube and I've been listening to them.
I heard that when Roger Waters wrote lyrics, he intentionally tried to use simpler words
@Mitch Well, I wouldn't know the reference either.
Thanks Mr. Oxbridge.
There was hardly any written literature before Homer anyway.
@Cerberus gilgamesh.
I meant in Greek.
7:02 PM
I mean the Aeneid is almost post modern in it's homage/copying in the Aeneid.
Or wait... that's Dante, right?
Also, the Hebrew stories. Also 1000 BC
kinda weird stories if you ask me.
frankly a little too much sex
Sure, the Aeneid refers to Homer all the time, because Roman literature was linked to Greek literature.
'linked' = 'shameless copying'
But I don't think there was much of a link between Greek and Mesopotamian literature.
Well, yes.
But the notion of "copying" as a bad thing, or as a thing at all, is Romantic.
I wasn't trying to connect Greek and Mesopotamian culture. but now that you mention it...
Maybe there is some link between Homer's oenal sea and some Mesopotamian source, I don't know.
7:26 PM
I wonder when exactly they exchanged emails... In my absence? Unforgivable
If you like swimming you can swim in the well, since you used well so many times.
@JasperLoy PLease don't encourage that. We drink from the well water.
yeah seriously.
also wells are not usually large enough to allow swimming. bathing, maybe.
@Cerberus Wait, is it 'Romantic' to copy or it was a "Romantic' ideal to be original?
The latter.
But there is no "copying" without a notion of originality.
Of course I am exaggerating, but more or less.
7:50 PM
So @Cerb I thought of a nice feature I wish my phone had. I wish I could have it self-destruct (or just factory reset) instantly upon scanning of a certain fingerprint.
So if I was ever forced to hand over my phone, I could wipe it with a single touch.
Ah, with a finger you don't normally use?
Perhaps there is a Tasker plug-in for that.
Have you tried searching for "Android penis self-destruct"?
that sounds like an inadvisable search :D
8:06 PM
Or highly advisable!
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How do you like this:
That is in the latest version of Whatsapp.
yeah I heard about that.
ironically: I had never heard of telegram before.
Haha, exactly!
Telegram is really superior in almost every respect.
This has actually changed my friend's mind to switch to Telegram too. She has just installed it, and we're moving our group thither.
how is it better than Hangouts?
I think we have talked about this before: I don't remember.
But it's open source.
And has a great desktop programme.
2 hours later…
10:23 PM
Anybody use Signal? formerly called RedPhone/TextSecure?
10:39 PM
No, but I encourage it.
I read they were recently DoSed.

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