The Bikeshed

Zizouz212

12:37

Nah, I'll just discuss it in chat :)

@Martijn I'm not technically a mod anymore... :P

overactor

@Zizzouz, technically the whole site is not about floss

but practically it is and I very much agree with your edit

Zizouz212

Why do we have the floss tag again?

overactor

@Zizouz212 did I miss something?

@Zizouz212 I would vote for removing it

although

maybe for questions that are about the term floss?

Zizouz212

I think that's what it is

I'll check the tag wiki

overactor

it has its purpose I suppose then

I did

Zizouz212

12:42

@overactor Nah, my entire account was hacked, so I asked them to remove the diamond just to be safe :)

overactor

@Zizouz212 oh wow

Zizouz212

Yep

overactor

You changed your password I hope

Zizouz212

Yep, I did

overactor

Do you think your email might be compromised?

Zizouz212

12:43

I just want to make sure my computer is cleaned up too, some other mods and myself were looking into it, and found my computer was "vulernable"

@overactor It was

4000 spam messages sent from my account...

... to my account :)

Martijn

I'm not very bothered with technicalityies

overactor

weird

Martijn

so did you still need an echo board for the license tag?

Zizouz212

I'll probably just write a draft first, and post it here, and get your thoughts

overactor

sounds like a plan

Zizouz212

12:48

Sure :)

overactor

@Zizouz212 @Martijn

-1

Q: Open source bank / dit card

I was wondering if there's any open source bank or credit card service. I know there's bitcoin, but it's not accepted in most shops and therefore has to necessarily be converted, and the money moved to a proper credit card or bank account, and then it's freely usable in a shop. The thing is I don...

communitycurre

Is this off-topic?

Zizouz212

Yep, it is

And I can't close it... -_-

ratchet freak

I'm kinda wondering how money handling could be open source

overactor

Also, i don't know if it was one of you, but I'd suggest you comment before downvoting on a post from a new member.

Well, bitcoin is open source no?

@Zizouz212 Are you sure?

Martijn

I voted unclear rather than off-topic

Zizouz212

12:58

Aren't external software/services off-topic?

ratchet freak

@overactor technically not money handling but exchanging virtual currency

overactor

2

Q: Does open source clothing exist?

Does open source clothing exists? With that I mean, do sewing patterns, tutorials or steering files for sewing and weaving machines, that are licensed as open source exist? Meaning these patterns, tutorials and steering files can be freely changed and redistributed? Is it even possible to open so...

licensing creative-commons

Martijn

I have no idea what an open source bank service would even mean

Zizouz212

> Is there anything like that?

> was wondering if there's any open source bank or credit card service.

> If not, would it theoretically be possible to start such a service?

ratchet freak

the virtual currency just happens to be worth real money

Zizouz212

12:59

If anything, I would say that it's a combination of broad and off-topic

overactor

Mind you it's definitely not a very good question.

But I could see it being on-topic

Zizouz212

and bad subjective :)

overactor

broad, yes, the question is going in too many directions.

@Zizouz212 subjective?

Zizouz212

@overactor It is theoretically possible? Well, yes it is, if you open your mind :P

overactor

In what sense is "does this exist?" suggestive?

Martijn

13:00

I I were to understand what an open source bank service even means, I could have a judgement on whether it's on topic or not

but I don't actually think it means anything at all

overactor

@Zizouz212 badly phrased, not necessarily subjective

Zizouz212

I would say it's fairly subjective, and not constructive at all

overactor

How about we ask him to come into chat with us?

Zizouz212

Sure

I can't ping him in -_-

Martijn

you could, if you have the hope that helps with getting a better question or contributor out of it

Zizouz212

13:02

too broad :)

Martijn

personally, I doubt it, but I might just be a negative Nancy

Zizouz212

2 off-topic, 2 broad, 1 unclear vote

overactor

Can Gilles superping users into this chat?

@Gilles ^ ?

ratchet freak

anyone with a blue name can

overactor

@Martijn I think there might be a good question in there

We just have to figure out what they really want to ask

And see if that fits our site

ratchet freak

13:05

Big problem with money is the liability and various regulations

Martijn

I don't actually believe this is a moderation matter, hence I believe mod pings shouldn't be used. But I'm fine with inviting them to chat, and see if we can make a suitable question out if it, even if I personally don't think so

Zizouz212

@ArtOfCode can. But it's not even the right use for a mod ping anyway

It's not a moderation task, just a "I want to talk to you" task

overactor

@Zizouz212 What is the superping for then?

@ArtOfCode speak of the devil.

Zizouz212

Really just for moderation tasks?

Martijn

for "dud(ett)e, we need to talk."

Zizouz212

13:07

You can ping users into a room that they've never been to before...

I think that's it

overactor

@Martijn Interesting, I'd go for "dude(tte)".

Martijn

I've been thinking about that overactor

ratchet freak

@Zizouz212 or haven't been in a while

Martijn

but because the first e's sound changes with with presence of the bracketed text, I bracket the first e

ArtOfCode

Afternoon. I'm happy to mod ping, it doesn't have to be moderation purposes. Who am I pinging?

Zizouz212

13:08

@ratchetfreak Nah, if they've ever posted a message into the room, they can be pinged using a normal ping

Martijn

the last e is always a swa, the first one is voiceful in dudette

overactor

@Zizouz212 I thought you become unpingable after a certain time.

ArtOfCode

After a while, yeah

overactor

@Martijn I actually know what swa means

Zizouz212

@ArtOfCode Really? You can still do things like reply ping them...

overactor

13:09

@ArtOfCode

-2

Q: Open source bank or credit card service

I was wondering if there's any open source bank or credit card service. I know there's bitcoin, but it's not accepted in most shops and therefore has to necessarily be converted, and the money moved to a proper credit card or bank account, and then it's freely usable in a shop. The thing is I d...

community

Zizouz212

@RaziehNoori Have you ever posted a message into this room? (This may be cheating, since you're in the room)

2 off-topic, 2 broad, 1 unclear vote

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 But after a while they become completely unpingable. You can type their username after an @ but they won't get the note.

Zizouz212

Interesting

Learned something new today :)

overactor

That's what I thought too?

@ArtOfCode so will you ping them?

torels that is

ArtOfCode

@overactor Who?

torels, right

No user found for that username.

Lemme get some details.

overactor

13:12

strange

caching?

Zizouz212

@@[opensource]2547? @ArtOfCode

ArtOfCode

@torels We'd like to talk to you in chat - click your notification to join us.

@Zizouz212 [email protected]

Zizouz212

Shakes head in immense disagreement

Alright, I don't remember...

ArtOfCode

One mod ping, done

overactor

much disappoint

Zizouz212

13:14

My god, 5 hours to run a darn virus scan?

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 That's short xD

Zizouz212

Is it really?

ArtOfCode

My old machine takes a full 24 hours to scan

Zizouz212

This is a new machine...

ratchet freak

how large is the disk?

ArtOfCode

13:15

More TTP, how much data is on it

overactor

Oh by the way, have we heard from the SE team re our name?

Zizouz212

500 GB, 319 gb free

ArtOfCode

Small disk :)

Zizouz212

I don't use anything on it anyway...

ArtOfCode

@overactor Tim Post is on it, and is composing meta posts for us to see soon. No concrete dates yet.

overactor

13:17

@ArtOfCode Okay, good to know.

Zizouz212

We'll have it before the 90 day mark (I hope)

I've got secret plans for the community at the 90 day mark (and yes, they're definitely fun-filled :) )

ArtOfCode

Hopefully, yeah

Zizouz212

Even the other mods don't know about it: that's how secret it is

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 Drop em in mod chat a few days before

Zizouz212

NEVER!

ArtOfCode

13:19

I'm jumpy about your plans after the last one ;)

Zizouz212

It doesn't really come from a mod perspective: no need to discuss :P

ArtOfCode

Hmm, fair enough

Zizouz212

:)

overactor

I was a bit disappointed by how we got mentioned in the podcast.

Zizouz212

We got mentioned in the podcast?

ArtOfCode

13:21

Yep

Zizouz212

Where

What did they say?

overactor

Yeah, it's not in a blog post yet though.

Zizouz212

Did they blow out how amazing of a community we are!?!

overactor

They just mentioned we existed.

Zizouz212

-_-

overactor

13:22

Which is too bad for us, but understandable.

Zizouz212

@ArtOfCode Nice edit :P

@ArtOfCode Secretly unmerged licenses :)

ArtOfCode

They do the same for all new betas I think

overactor

@ArtOfCode Yeah, but every so often a new beta gets discussed a bit more elaborately.

Worldbuilding.SE was special that way

Zizouz212

What do they do for betas?

ArtOfCode

@overactor We're not one :) we'll just have to give them something to talk about us for.

overactor

13:23

But I suspect you already knew that, @ArtOfCode

ArtOfCode

@overactor Yep, I was happy about that. I run the blog over there now

Zizouz212

Yeah! Come on Art!

overactor

@ArtOfCode you're welcome.

ArtOfCode

WB is one of those that just got tons of activity

Zizouz212

Worldbuilding. Time for a first post

overactor

13:26

@ArtOfCode It really is a special place

I don't actively contribute so much lately, but I often read the questions and answers with much glee.

ratchet freak

it's a bikeshedding site

Zizouz212

I though this was a bikeshed?

overactor

@ratchetfreak care to support that claim?

Zizouz212

10

A: What do users from other Stack Exchange sites think of Worldbuilding Stack Exchange?

I'll tell you this: I'm not "really" a user here. So I think whatever I have to say is... decently valid. I discovered this site looking through the gazillions of collections of beta sites that seemingly go on forever. When I first see a site, I look at some of the users, the highest voted quest...

@ArtOfCode Medium sounds really cool

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 It is, it works well for blogs

torels

14:18

@ArtOfCode hey there :)

Zizouz212

@torels Hi!

torels

I saw the notification on my post being put on hold

Zizouz212

Ah, for the record: You had 2 off-topic votes, 2 broad votes, and an unclear vote :)

torels

i'm sorry for the inconvenience, and for the inexperience causing it

overactor

hey @torels

Zizouz212

14:19

@torels Nah, don't worry!

overactor

@torels No worries

torels

should I just remove it or, if not, how can I improve the question?

overactor

well

Zizouz212

I wouldn't remove it. What exactly are you trying to look for though?

overactor

Two of us voted as two broad

Zizouz212

14:20

I voted as off-topic. You likely saw my comment.

overactor

that's easily improved by focusing your question on one core question.

torels

alright, I just wouldn't know how to make it clearer actually :/

overactor

There was also an unclear vote, which I can understand.

@torels Which is the main reason I thought a chat might help.

Zizouz212

:)

overactor

talking this stuff through can often help with understanding your own question.

torels

14:22

I'm pretty much trying to find out if anybody knows of the existence of an open source bank, or if somebody has ever tried anything like it... google won't bring up much :(

overactor

What you really want to ask.

What would a bank need to qualify as open source in your opinion?

ArtOfCode

@overactor I see you there on medium

Zizouz212

@ArtOfCode You're ping... worked

overactor

@ArtOfCode Oh my, I've been discovered.

ArtOfCode

@Zizouz212 They tend to. So I see.

Zizouz212

14:23

This question is seriously putting me into a squeeze... opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/1762/…

overactor

And for that matter @torels, what would it need to qualify as a bank?

torels

Decentralization, a community making decisions rather than a closed hierachy

Zizouz212

Alright, so open source is actually more of a software thing... (hate to break it to you)

torels

ha! I get it

I do realize it's off topic now

overactor

@Zizouz212 wow wow, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion so quickly

torels

14:26

I tend to consider open source as a broader thing

overactor

Our site is about applying OS and Free/Libre priciples to a wide array of topics

Zizouz212

But how would an open source bank even work? Unless it's completely online, I don't see how it would necessarily be productive and use open source principles as the basis for its operations. That's just me though.

torels

I mean: if I build a bike and share my projects with everybody i'm actually making an open source bike, right?

that is in line with the siste's principles, right?

and yes it would be online

overactor

absolutely

ratchet freak

money handling will be an issue

overactor

14:28

For instance, I would likely consider bitcoin to be essentially on topic

torels

A legal issue or a practical issue?

Zizouz212

@torels That would probably work: likely a lot like open source hardware, except the bike would have the designs and stuff available

ratchet freak

@torels both

overactor

Those isssues could conceivably be elaborated upon in the form of an answer?

ratchet freak

practical as in how would the stored money be kept, how is access to it approved

legal as in what can you do when a rogue individual runs away with all the money

overactor

14:30

@ratchetfreak What do banks do when that happens?

Are big banks insured?

Zizouz212

The software that a bank uses could be open source?

@overactor Most likely. That would be a big issue if they weren't :/

ratchet freak

@Zizouz212 of course

torels

I reckon it could be kept like anybody hosting an open source service (see diaspora or owncloud) physically keeps data on the server

overactor

@ratchetfreak But that won't do for you I suspect

torels

There are open source banking softwears, yes

ratchet freak

14:32

but that data needs to represent real currency which requires security against malicious people

overactor

@ratchetfreak Security in numbers is security.

Zizouz212

Case in Point: SE has a lot of tools that they have developed, and made open source afterwards. The company itself is "closed", but they have open source tools. Are you looking for something like this?

overactor

Any transaction would likely need to be verified by a random selection of clients

torels

@overactor yep, that's a thing

@Zizouz212 I'm not lokking for a tool

*looking

Zizouz212

You can edit your message, by clicking on the arrow to the left of the message :)

ratchet freak

14:35

or pressing up

Zizouz212

Not necessarily tools. The SE blog is completely open source

overactor

I don't know exactly how bitcoins work, but I do know one problem is that if one person has too much computing power, they can rewrite transaction history.

ratchet freak

only within a few minutes though

overactor

I'm not sure if a FLO bank would suffer from that as well.

Zizouz212

@overactor What are bit coins?

overactor

14:35

@Zizouz212 cryptocurrency

torels

@Zizouz212 open source crypto currency

Zizouz212

Interesting

overactor

basically, you use your computer to solve really resource intensive math problems

ratchet freak

overactor

If you're the first to solve one, you get some coins

Zizouz212

14:36

There's a site about this?

overactor

then a new problem is generated based on the solution of the previous one.

torels

Do you reckon my question i sbest addressed there?

ratchet freak

Don't think so

overactor

The chain of problems and solutions is used to evrify if transactions are valid or not

roughly

Zizouz212

No, it's not about bitcoin

overactor

14:37

very roughly

probably kind of incorrect

Zizouz212

So are you looking for a bank that uses open source in its entirety?

torels

yes, more or less

or if there's nothing like it some knowledge

overactor

I think the most important part is that keeping track of accounts is decentralized

Zizouz212

Alright, so I would vote that off-topic, as it's a request for an external source. Not entirely sure where something like that could go

ratchet freak

even a bank that does that can be not open in its practices

@Zizouz212 in chat ;)

Zizouz212

14:38

-_-

torels

@ratchetfreak sure. Decentralization doesn't necessarily mean open

Zizouz212

@Zizouz212 For that, it might help to go to Meta SE and ask a site where you can ask it. Of course, if we deem it off-topic.

overactor

But combined with fully open source software, we would be getting somewhere

I wonder if there could be some open way to have the money generate more money, the way normal banks do

torels

@rachetfreak but imagine investors taking an active part in deciding what plans are offered, where the bank's money is invested, card regulations, exchange fees etc

@overactor

investment

ratchet freak

@overactor that's with loans traditionally

overactor

14:41

@Zizouz212 may I point out once again

9

Q: Do open source movies exist?

I've encountered open/free (as in freedom) music, books, hardware, knowledge and naturally software. But do open source movies also exist? Is that even possible?

entertainment movie

torels

just community-led

overactor

2

Q: Does open source clothing exist?

Does open source clothing exists? With that I mean, do sewing patterns, tutorials or steering files for sewing and weaving machines, that are licensed as open source exist? Meaning these patterns, tutorials and steering files can be freely changed and redistributed? Is it even possible to open so...

licensing creative-commons

ratchet freak

doing complex finance is not for the masses though

overactor

I would agree that if this were possible and existed, that'd be pretty close to something I'd call a FLO bank.

ratchet freak

a bank would need to set its interest rates so it's not making a loss

overactor

14:43

@ratchetfreak definitely a huge hurdle

Zizouz212

The questions are different: those ask for the existence, but the one by @torels asks for an example of one. By allowing it, I would deem my question here at Software Recs to be on-topic.

overactor

@Zizouz212 It can easily be rewritten though.

torels

@overactor FLO?

ratchet freak

I'd also argue that politics isn't for the masses

overactor

@torels Frre Libre Open

Zizouz212

14:44

@torels Free/Libre Open

ratchet freak

free/libre open

overactor

@ratchetfreak And yet

torels

ah ok

overactor

It's become my prefered term to refer to these things

Zizouz212

@overactor The thing is that I'm looking for a specific one, which makes @torels's question fundamentally the same.

ratchet freak

14:44

@overactor there needs to be good education about the consequences of political issues

torels

@rachetfreak but there are many examples of open source politics

overactor

@ratchetfreak couldn't agree more

torels

just think of freely distributable books and pamflets

overactor

at least the FLO bank would be opt in

Martijn

excellent question @Amelia

ratchet freak

14:45

unfortunately news stations seems to like senationalism more ("obama wore a turban ergo he's muslim terrorist")

overactor

@Zizouz212 unless @torels changes the question to simply ask: does it exist?

Zizouz212

@Martijn That one really threw me out, you've got a pretty good answer too.

@overactor Turns into the bad subjective question for me, but I guess

Martijn

@Zizouz212 more answers is more betterness \o/

Zizouz212

The issue is that if we accept that, we would be getting requests for external resources, that are worded horribly

overactor

@Zizouz212 For what possible meaning of the word subjective, is "Does X exist?" subjective?

Zizouz212

14:47

@Martijn But if she owns the copyright, then she should be able to open source under the GPL and place the app to the app store (maybe if she puts in under separate releases?)

overactor

@Zizouz212 That argument could be made.

Zizouz212

@overactor Which is why I'm now considering down voting those questions.

@overactor In what way would it be constructive?

ratchet freak

it's kinda hard to give them a definitive "no"

Martijn

@Zizouz212 you can't place additional restrictions on an GPL'ed project. The app store TOS places additional restricitons on the apps they distribute

overactor

It could talk about the possibilities and the hurdles

Martijn

14:49

hence: you can't distribute GPL'ed apps through the app store

one of the terms in the GPL is that if there are additional restrictions, you are free to ignore them

ratchet freak

but could you then also bypass the TOS restriction by giving them another avenue of getting the application

Zizouz212

@Martijn Not if the entire app is written by you, and you provide them a separate release that marks yourself a copyright, no?

Martijn

Apple wants their users to comply with the TOS, so they don't distribute GPL'ed apps

overactor

@Zizouz212 Questions you shoulddownvote and questions you should VTC have a surprisingly small overlap.

Zizouz212

@overactor Yep, there questions, but bad questions.

ratchet freak

14:50

what restrictions in particular are non-compatible with GPL?

Martijn

you could make a separate release that is not under the GPL, which you could distribute through the app store, yes

any and all

overactor

@torels, maybe steer the question in a "Why can't/can it exist direction?" ?

Zizouz212

@Martijn Can't it be similar to dual-licensing then, place a closed license for distribution, and open license for others?

ratchet freak

I meant specifics

Zizouz212

@Martijn I'm going to make that my answer then :)

Martijn

14:51

@ratchetfreak from the GPL: You may not impose any further restrictions on the exercise of the rights granted or affirmed under this License.

ratchet freak

I meant from the TOS

Martijn

@Zizouz212 yeah, sure, go for it

@ratchetfreak who knows. The thing is longer than the entire body of international copyright law

Zizouz212

@Martijn I'm going to give your answer a bounty afterwards though most likely as well :)

Martijn

@ratchetfreak but the FSF and Apple agree it's true, so I assume their lawyers did read the thing :D

Zizouz212

Neat article: fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance

Martijn

14:53

@Zizouz212 there isn't really a reason to do that (other than if you enjoy doing it)

it won't be an incentive for me to do more, less or better work, as I care roughly not at all about reputation

Zizouz212

@Martijn It's one of the clearest answers I've seen lately about licensing, and quite honestly, both the question and answer is amazing, so :)

@Martijn Regardless, it will be a good way for me to get two more badges :P

Martijn

an actually good answer would also have actually read and understood the app store TOS in its entirety, and touch upon the separate non-gpl app store release possibility

so at least hold on until someone else has gotten the opportunity to add an answer that includes that :D

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