The Bikeshed

Yep, it is

And I can't close it... -_-

I'm kinda wondering how money handling could be open source

Also, i don't know if it was one of you, but I'd suggest you comment before downvoting on a post from a new member.

Well, bitcoin is open source no?

@Zizouz212 Are you sure?

I voted unclear rather than off-topic

12:58 PM

Aren't external software/services off-topic?

@overactor technically not money handling but exchanging virtual currency

Q: Does open source clothing exist?

2

Does open source clothing exists? With that I mean, do sewing patterns, tutorials or steering files for sewing and weaving machines, that are licensed as open source exist? Meaning these patterns, tutorials and steering files can be freely changed and redistributed? Is it even possible to open so...

licensing creative-commons

I have no idea what an open source bank service would even mean

> Is there anything like that?

> was wondering if there's any open source bank or credit card service.

> If not, would it theoretically be possible to start such a service?

the virtual currency just happens to be worth real money

12:59 PM

If anything, I would say that it's a combination of broad and off-topic

Mind you it's definitely not a very good question.

But I could see it being on-topic

and bad subjective :)

broad, yes, the question is going in too many directions.

@Zizouz212 subjective?

@overactor It is theoretically possible? Well, yes it is, if you open your mind :P

In what sense is "does this exist?" suggestive?

1:00 PM

I I were to understand what an open source bank service even means, I could have a judgement on whether it's on topic or not

but I don't actually think it means anything at all

@Zizouz212 badly phrased, not necessarily subjective

I would say it's fairly subjective, and not constructive at all

How about we ask him to come into chat with us?

Sure

I can't ping him in -_-

you could, if you have the hope that helps with getting a better question or contributor out of it

1:02 PM

too broad :)

personally, I doubt it, but I might just be a negative Nancy

2 off-topic, 2 broad, 1 unclear vote

Can Gilles superping users into this chat?

@Gilles ^ ?

anyone with a blue name can

@Martijn I think there might be a good question in there

We just have to figure out what they really want to ask

And see if that fits our site

1:05 PM

Big problem with money is the liability and various regulations

I don't actually believe this is a moderation matter, hence I believe mod pings shouldn't be used. But I'm fine with inviting them to chat, and see if we can make a suitable question out if it, even if I personally don't think so

@ArtOfCode can. But it's not even the right use for a mod ping anyway

It's not a moderation task, just a "I want to talk to you" task

@Zizouz212 What is the superping for then?

@ArtOfCode speak of the devil.

Really just for moderation tasks?

for "dud(ett)e, we need to talk."

1:07 PM

You can ping users into a room that they've never been to before...

I think that's it

@Martijn Interesting, I'd go for "dude(tte)".

I've been thinking about that overactor

@Zizouz212 or haven't been in a while

but because the first e's sound changes with with presence of the bracketed text, I bracket the first e

Afternoon. I'm happy to mod ping, it doesn't have to be moderation purposes. Who am I pinging?

1:08 PM

@ratchetfreak Nah, if they've ever posted a message into the room, they can be pinged using a normal ping

the last e is always a swa, the first one is voiceful in dudette

@Zizouz212 I thought you become unpingable after a certain time.

After a while, yeah

@Martijn I actually know what swa means

@ArtOfCode Really? You can still do things like reply ping them...

Q: Open source bank or credit card service

1:09 PM

@ArtOfCode

-2

I was wondering if there's any open source bank or credit card service. I know there's bitcoin, but it's not accepted in most shops and therefore has to necessarily be converted, and the money moved to a proper credit card or bank account, and then it's freely usable in a shop. The thing is I d...

community

@RaziehNoori Have you ever posted a message into this room? (This may be cheating, since you're in the room)

2 off-topic, 2 broad, 1 unclear vote

@Zizouz212 But after a while they become completely unpingable. You can type their username after an @ but they won't get the note.

Interesting

Learned something new today :)

That's what I thought too?

@ArtOfCode so will you ping them?

torels that is

@overactor Who?

torels, right

No user found for that username.

Lemme get some details.

1:12 PM

strange

caching?

@@[opensource]2547? @ArtOfCode

@torels We'd like to talk to you in chat - click your notification to join us.

@Zizouz212 userid@opensource.stackexchange.com

Shakes head in immense disagreement

Alright, I don't remember...

One mod ping, done

much disappoint

1:14 PM

My god, 5 hours to run a darn virus scan?

@Zizouz212 That's short xD

Is it really?

My old machine takes a full 24 hours to scan

This is a new machine...

how large is the disk?

1:15 PM

More TTP, how much data is on it

Oh by the way, have we heard from the SE team re our name?

500 GB, 319 gb free

Small disk :)

I don't use anything on it anyway...

@overactor Tim Post is on it, and is composing meta posts for us to see soon. No concrete dates yet.

1:17 PM

@ArtOfCode Okay, good to know.

We'll have it before the 90 day mark (I hope)

I've got secret plans for the community at the 90 day mark (and yes, they're definitely fun-filled :) )

Hopefully, yeah

Even the other mods don't know about it: that's how secret it is

@Zizouz212 Drop em in mod chat a few days before

NEVER!

1:19 PM

I'm jumpy about your plans after the last one ;)

It doesn't really come from a mod perspective: no need to discuss :P

Hmm, fair enough

:)

I was a bit disappointed by how we got mentioned in the podcast.

We got mentioned in the podcast?

1:21 PM

Yep

Where

What did they say?

Yeah, it's not in a blog post yet though.

Did they blow out how amazing of a community we are!?!

They just mentioned we existed.

-_-

1:22 PM

Which is too bad for us, but understandable.

@ArtOfCode Nice edit :P

@ArtOfCode Secretly unmerged licenses :)

They do the same for all new betas I think

@ArtOfCode Yeah, but every so often a new beta gets discussed a bit more elaborately.

Worldbuilding.SE was special that way

What do they do for betas?

@overactor We're not one :) we'll just have to give them something to talk about us for.

1:23 PM

But I suspect you already knew that, @ArtOfCode

@overactor Yep, I was happy about that. I run the blog over there now

Yeah! Come on Art!

@ArtOfCode you're welcome.

WB is one of those that just got tons of activity

Worldbuilding. Time for a first post

1:26 PM

@ArtOfCode It really is a special place

I don't actively contribute so much lately, but I often read the questions and answers with much glee.

it's a bikeshedding site

I though this was a bikeshed?

@ratchetfreak care to support that claim?

A: What do users from other Stack Exchange sites think of Worldbuilding Stack Exchange?

10

I'll tell you this: I'm not "really" a user here. So I think whatever I have to say is... decently valid. I discovered this site looking through the gazillions of collections of beta sites that seemingly go on forever. When I first see a site, I look at some of the users, the highest voted quest...

@ArtOfCode Medium sounds really cool

@Zizouz212 It is, it works well for blogs

2:18 PM

@ArtOfCode hey there :)

@torels Hi!

I saw the notification on my post being put on hold

Ah, for the record: You had 2 off-topic votes, 2 broad votes, and an unclear vote :)

i'm sorry for the inconvenience, and for the inexperience causing it

hey @torels

2:19 PM

@torels Nah, don't worry!

@torels No worries

should I just remove it or, if not, how can I improve the question?

well

I wouldn't remove it. What exactly are you trying to look for though?

Two of us voted as two broad

2:20 PM

I voted as off-topic. You likely saw my comment.

that's easily improved by focusing your question on one core question.

alright, I just wouldn't know how to make it clearer actually :/

There was also an unclear vote, which I can understand.

@torels Which is the main reason I thought a chat might help.

:)

talking this stuff through can often help with understanding your own question.

2:22 PM

I'm pretty much trying to find out if anybody knows of the existence of an open source bank, or if somebody has ever tried anything like it... google won't bring up much :(

What you really want to ask.

What would a bank need to qualify as open source in your opinion?

@overactor I see you there on medium

@ArtOfCode You're ping... worked

@ArtOfCode Oh my, I've been discovered.

@Zizouz212 They tend to. So I see.

2:23 PM

This question is seriously putting me into a squeeze... opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/1762/…

And for that matter @torels, what would it need to qualify as a bank?

Decentralization, a community making decisions rather than a closed hierachy

Alright, so open source is actually more of a software thing... (hate to break it to you)

ha! I get it

I do realize it's off topic now

@Zizouz212 wow wow, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion so quickly

2:26 PM

I tend to consider open source as a broader thing

Our site is about applying OS and Free/Libre priciples to a wide array of topics

But how would an open source bank even work? Unless it's completely online, I don't see how it would necessarily be productive and use open source principles as the basis for its operations. That's just me though.

I mean: if I build a bike and share my projects with everybody i'm actually making an open source bike, right?

that is in line with the siste's principles, right?

and yes it would be online

absolutely

money handling will be an issue

2:28 PM

For instance, I would likely consider bitcoin to be essentially on topic

A legal issue or a practical issue?

@torels That would probably work: likely a lot like open source hardware, except the bike would have the designs and stuff available

@torels both

Those isssues could conceivably be elaborated upon in the form of an answer?

practical as in how would the stored money be kept, how is access to it approved

legal as in what can you do when a rogue individual runs away with all the money

2:30 PM

@ratchetfreak What do banks do when that happens?

Are big banks insured?

The software that a bank uses could be open source?

@overactor Most likely. That would be a big issue if they weren't :/

@Zizouz212 of course

I reckon it could be kept like anybody hosting an open source service (see diaspora or owncloud) physically keeps data on the server

@ratchetfreak But that won't do for you I suspect

There are open source banking softwears, yes

2:32 PM

but that data needs to represent real currency which requires security against malicious people

@ratchetfreak Security in numbers is security.

Case in Point: SE has a lot of tools that they have developed, and made open source afterwards. The company itself is "closed", but they have open source tools. Are you looking for something like this?

Any transaction would likely need to be verified by a random selection of clients

@overactor yep, that's a thing

@Zizouz212 I'm not lokking for a tool

*looking

You can edit your message, by clicking on the arrow to the left of the message :)

2:35 PM

or pressing up

Not necessarily tools. The SE blog is completely open source

I don't know exactly how bitcoins work, but I do know one problem is that if one person has too much computing power, they can rewrite transaction history.

only within a few minutes though

I'm not sure if a FLO bank would suffer from that as well.

@overactor What are bit coins?

2:35 PM

@Zizouz212 cryptocurrency

@Zizouz212 open source crypto currency

Interesting

basically, you use your computer to solve really resource intensive math problems

If you're the first to solve one, you get some coins

2:36 PM

There's a site about this?

then a new problem is generated based on the solution of the previous one.

Do you reckon my question i sbest addressed there?

Don't think so

The chain of problems and solutions is used to evrify if transactions are valid or not

roughly

No, it's not about bitcoin

2:37 PM

very roughly

probably kind of incorrect

So are you looking for a bank that uses open source in its entirety?

yes, more or less

or if there's nothing like it some knowledge

I think the most important part is that keeping track of accounts is decentralized

Alright, so I would vote that off-topic, as it's a request for an external source. Not entirely sure where something like that could go

even a bank that does that can be not open in its practices

@Zizouz212 in chat ;)

2:38 PM

-_-

@ratchetfreak sure. Decentralization doesn't necessarily mean open

@Zizouz212 For that, it might help to go to Meta SE and ask a site where you can ask it. Of course, if we deem it off-topic.

But combined with fully open source software, we would be getting somewhere

I wonder if there could be some open way to have the money generate more money, the way normal banks do

@rachetfreak but imagine investors taking an active part in deciding what plans are offered, where the bank's money is invested, card regulations, exchange fees etc

@overactor

investment

@overactor that's with loans traditionally

Q: Do open source movies exist?

2:41 PM

@Zizouz212 may I point out once again

9

I've encountered open/free (as in freedom) music, books, hardware, knowledge and naturally software. But do open source movies also exist? Is that even possible?

entertainment movie

just community-led

Q: Does open source clothing exist?

2

Does open source clothing exists? With that I mean, do sewing patterns, tutorials or steering files for sewing and weaving machines, that are licensed as open source exist? Meaning these patterns, tutorials and steering files can be freely changed and redistributed? Is it even possible to open so...

licensing creative-commons

doing complex finance is not for the masses though

I would agree that if this were possible and existed, that'd be pretty close to something I'd call a FLO bank.

a bank would need to set its interest rates so it's not making a loss

2:43 PM

@ratchetfreak definitely a huge hurdle

The questions are different: those ask for the existence, but the one by @torels asks for an example of one. By allowing it, I would deem my question here at Software Recs to be on-topic.

@Zizouz212 It can easily be rewritten though.

@overactor FLO?

I'd also argue that politics isn't for the masses

@torels Frre Libre Open

2:44 PM

@torels Free/Libre Open

free/libre open

@ratchetfreak And yet

ah ok

It's become my prefered term to refer to these things

@overactor The thing is that I'm looking for a specific one, which makes @torels's question fundamentally the same.

2:44 PM

@overactor there needs to be good education about the consequences of political issues

@rachetfreak but there are many examples of open source politics

@ratchetfreak couldn't agree more

just think of freely distributable books and pamflets

at least the FLO bank would be opt in

excellent question @Amelia

2:45 PM

unfortunately news stations seems to like senationalism more ("obama wore a turban ergo he's muslim terrorist")

@Zizouz212 unless @torels changes the question to simply ask: does it exist?

@Martijn That one really threw me out, you've got a pretty good answer too.

@overactor Turns into the bad subjective question for me, but I guess

@Zizouz212 more answers is more betterness \o/

The issue is that if we accept that, we would be getting requests for external resources, that are worded horribly

@Zizouz212 For what possible meaning of the word subjective, is "Does X exist?" subjective?

2:47 PM

@Martijn But if she owns the copyright, then she should be able to open source under the GPL and place the app to the app store (maybe if she puts in under separate releases?)

@Zizouz212 That argument could be made.

@overactor Which is why I'm now considering down voting those questions.

@overactor In what way would it be constructive?

it's kinda hard to give them a definitive "no"

@Zizouz212 you can't place additional restrictions on an GPL'ed project. The app store TOS places additional restricitons on the apps they distribute

It could talk about the possibilities and the hurdles

2:49 PM

hence: you can't distribute GPL'ed apps through the app store

one of the terms in the GPL is that if there are additional restrictions, you are free to ignore them

but could you then also bypass the TOS restriction by giving them another avenue of getting the application

@Martijn Not if the entire app is written by you, and you provide them a separate release that marks yourself a copyright, no?

Apple wants their users to comply with the TOS, so they don't distribute GPL'ed apps

@Zizouz212 Questions you shoulddownvote and questions you should VTC have a surprisingly small overlap.

@overactor Yep, there questions, but bad questions.

2:50 PM

what restrictions in particular are non-compatible with GPL?

you could make a separate release that is not under the GPL, which you could distribute through the app store, yes

any and all

@torels, maybe steer the question in a "Why can't/can it exist direction?" ?

@Martijn Can't it be similar to dual-licensing then, place a closed license for distribution, and open license for others?

I meant specifics

@Martijn I'm going to make that my answer then :)

2:51 PM

@ratchetfreak from the GPL: You may not impose any further restrictions on the exercise of the rights granted or affirmed under this License.

I meant from the TOS

@Zizouz212 yeah, sure, go for it

@ratchetfreak who knows. The thing is longer than the entire body of international copyright law

@Martijn I'm going to give your answer a bounty afterwards though most likely as well :)

@ratchetfreak but the FSF and Apple agree it's true, so I assume their lawyers did read the thing :D

Neat article: fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance

2:53 PM

@Zizouz212 there isn't really a reason to do that (other than if you enjoy doing it)

it won't be an incentive for me to do more, less or better work, as I care roughly not at all about reputation

@Martijn It's one of the clearest answers I've seen lately about licensing, and quite honestly, both the question and answer is amazing, so :)

@Martijn Regardless, it will be a good way for me to get two more badges :P