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12:28 AM
pwah, replying to backlog
 
 
1 hour later…
1:51 AM
@JoshuaAslanSmith generally I think 1 hit 1 attack for now. It really sort of depends on how well the monster can generate their own advantage. For the most part just looking for a benchmark on which to test builds at various levels
 
2:10 AM
@waxeagle cool, did my answer work for you
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith yeah
 
I was laughing as I did this though cause that cr 8
whoooooooo
anyway, while you are here what times/week nights work best for you if you were to play in a roll20 game of the starter set with me as GM?
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith does it have wings and teeth and tail?
@JoshuaAslanSmith not sure yet. I think I'm putting parts of my regular group and some others through the first bits next week Friday, and maybe some Covenant students another night. I'm pretty flexible though, so pick a night and I'll make it happen (I'm free after about 730ish when the kids go to bed)
 
@waxeagle maybe
 
2:28 AM
@JoshuaAslanSmith and a "don't fight this or you'll die" warning :)
working on the wizzy right now, finally got spells all picked out, need to actually get it closer to a post form instead of more random thoughts/character construction list
 
2:40 AM
I think a big thing with 5e is explaining what you see is exactly what you get
looks like a powerful monster, probably will eat you alive
that humaniod wizard's skin is falling off?
probably a lich
best avoid that dude
 
yeah...definitely going to need cues, cuz monsters you can't kill aren't exactly going to be rare I don't think.
cues and "are you sure"'s. Nothing more frightening than the DM looking at you, and saying "Are you sure?"
 
Morning all
 
hiya
 
So I am thinking about making a tool to allow me to basically build monsters faster. Something that incorperates the rules for Ephermal beings in nWoD GMC, and prents them at the right time. and warns if any are broken.
 
not a system I know
 
2:49 AM
Baasically "this is how we make a moster, at this Rank it has X points of Y and its is vunerable to something, this rate"
anyone got any opinions on tooling?
ATM I am looking at using C# and WPF cos, well that I know for GUI stuff.
I've done similar in VBA and microsoft access.
 
@Oxinabox only thing I'd say is vb.net might be more readable/easier...but that's my language of profession...
tbh, it seems like something .net would do just fine (and if you wanted to make it a web app it should be an easy transition with .net)
me, I'd probably make it a web app anyways...just host it locally
 
memph, vb.net is interchangable with C# for almost everything that i've seen so far.
(C# was, several years ago, something I did proffessionally)
 
(but again, professional preference, it's what I know)
@Oxinabox yep, so it's a matter of whatever is easier for you
(I just find vb easier to read :))
 
I would like to make a web app, I feel that is a better more portable solution, but I have never really made one before
beyond some XSLT stuff
and my javascript is kinda poor,
but on the other hand there is never a better time to learn than now...
I guess I could learn Silverlight.
 
@Oxinabox don't, it's deprecated
HTML5 + JS would be all you'd need. And depending on what you wanted to do, you could do a fair amount sever side, so you could write it in C#
(and Jquery...)
cuz everyone needs MOAR Jquery (at least that's what the SO folks say...we don't do much client side stuff)
(and I'm currently training to be a...um...not even sure what to call it...Dynamics AX/X++ ERP developer...I guess is the best title for it...)
 
2:58 AM
I humbly recommend Google Dart
 
is it actually depricated?
or is it just not supported in metro>?
 
Instead of Javascript, because Dart is more structured.
 
microsft invested so much money in it...
it was ment to be the new flash.
I guess HTML5 does have that covered
 
@Oxinabox If your intention is to be portable, Silverlight is not much of an improvement over .net
 
Is dart portable? (am looking at it now, sounding good)
 
3:03 AM
@Oxinabox It compiles to Javascript, which means it is as portable as Javascript.
 
right,
 
Type annotations alone make it worth it, IMO.
 
3:59 AM
@Oxinabox Silverlight was meant to be the new flash, but it came in at a time when people were no longer caring as much about flash. If it had come in a few years earlier, things would've been much better for it.
It could've hit the ground running, but by the time it arrived the ground was no longer really there.
the modern power of CSS3, HTML5 and the incredible amount of JavaScript libraries to do everything totally trumps Silverlight.
heck, having something written in Silverlight is now kind of a bad thing, because then it can only be extended by doing further work in Silverlight. It cuts you off from the realms of possibility in HTML/CSS/JS available nowadays.
 
Also that you're cutting off 15% of the market by your choice of platform. And like 90% of the mobile market.
 
@Grubermensch Can you use jQuery in Dart?
or other frameworks, e.g. Angular or Knockout
 
@JonathanHobbs You can use any Javascript library
 
Can you do it with relative ease? i.e. is calling $('.someClass', '#someId').click( now for a function...); not a painful experience?
 
sdART IS PROVING ANNOYING TO GET INSTALLED
OOPS
arg caps
Dart is proving annoying to get installed. Looks like I have installed 32 bit java on my 64 bit OS so 64 bit dart won't work
 
4:06 AM
@Oxinabox Hmmm yeah that could be a problem. Not sure how to do it on windows.
 
I'll work it out. (meanwhile windows ins rufing to update. Ahh computers.)
 
@JonathanHobbs Basically package:js gives you the ability to access the Javascript top level object as js.context and go from there.
 
8
Q: Dart JavaScript interop callbacks with jQuery

bashepsHow can I translate the following jquery code to Dart? I'm having difficulty getting the alert callback to work using js.interop. <script src="https://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.7.1/jquery.min.js"></script> <script> $(function () { $('p').hide('slow', function() { alert("...

code samples! \o/ hooray
 
Though IMO most of the stuff people do in jQuery can be more cleanly done using the Dart standard libraries instead.
 
@Oxinabox I strongly recommend that if you want to learn about HTML+JS+CSS, you also learn some actual vanilla javascript. Do go ahead and program in Dart or whatever you prefer, too - I prefer Coffeescript at the moment, which is a very different beast to dart. But also take time to understand the language you're using at the bottom level.
In part, so you can actually read and debug your javascript in the browser (I'm assuming you can't just debug straight Dart code), and so you can do that with other libraries if it's necessary (it will be, sometimes)
also in part because JS is quirky and weird and it's good to understand it.
 
4:13 AM
@JonathanHobbs You can debug using the build of Chrome that includes a Dart VM (it comes with the editor), but that won't help you if there are problems with other browsers.
 
also in part because then you can actually program in something that isn't dart, and you can do stuff like enter raw JS into the browser console to experiment, debug, etc
@Grubermensch Yeah, I wouldn't call that adequate if I could only debug in Chrome :'(
though I'm glad it has something like that at least
 
@JonathanHobbs You actually use the editor's debugger, which is nicer, and also has better structure than Javascript, for which debugging is horrible in any browser.
 
@Grubermensch Is it?
I dunno; I've... attempted to debug in Python and never figured out how.
I'm used to debugging in Visual Studio, so I'd consider myself spoiled, and I have an easy enough time debugging in Firefox or Chrome nowadays.
 
Ha, I was just about to say how spoiled I am by debugging primarily using Visual Studio. :)
 
Debugging in an untyped language is rough.
 
4:18 AM
(at work, we have to debug sometimes in IE8. Do you know that in IE8, every Object output to the console is output as {...}? There isn't even any way to expand it. It's just a string. Every object looks like that. It is the most useless behaviour I have ever seen.)
 
bahahahaha
you could manually convert to strings at the top level
 
Ah, IE8. Came out after MS realized that they actually have to do something in the browser wars, but before they had any idea what to do.
 
* sigh * I miss Opera.
 
IE7 was all "tabs! we gotta have tabs!". IE8 was "HTML5? Is that a thing? Ok, we'll throw some of that in". IE9 finally got decent.
 
The real Opera, not the I'm-a-skinned-up-Chrome Opera
Also grumble grumble Linux version vaporware grumble
 
4:22 AM
@Grubermensch Yeah, I still have Opera 12 installed, the last one before the gutting.
(Although Chrome is still my main browser)
 
@Grubermensch Is it skinned Chrome or skinned Chromium?
(Chromium is the base browser engine, Chrome = Chromium + Google's own proprietary features)
 
@JonathanHobbs I mean it's not really either. They're just using the Blink engine for rendering the page. But that caused them to dump a lot of the features that made Opera Opera.
 
Oh okay.
 
@JonathanHobbs False. Chromium is the open source project, it's much more than the engine.
I'm running Chromium now, because it's what you run for Linux.
 
Well, I know it's an open source project, I was just distinguishing in case you weren't aware
 
4:26 AM
 
@lisardggY I too navigated to that page.
They seem mostly superficial.
 
Main differences, as far as I can see, is Google's licensed codecs included in Chrome.
 
Also the Flash sandbox.
 
Also the Google Chrome store.
 
And the implicit promise in Crash Reporting and User Metrics that google tracks your browsing. :)
 
4:27 AM
@JonathanHobbs Do you mean for extensions? Because I have that.
Google account linking also works in Chromium, though I don't use it.
The difference between Chrome and Chromium is nowhere near as wide as the difference between Android and AOSP.
 
@Grubermensch You can use Chrome extensions in Chromium?
 
:O
That's fantastic
 
Baby has awoken. I must away!
 
Sleep time for me. Catch you folks tomorrow.
 
4:58 AM
Goodnight!
 
 
4 hours later…
8:34 AM
Dart is cool
(after aparently 4 hours of mucking around in it)
 
 
1 hour later…
9:55 AM
Just finished a game of Cthulhu Dark.
It was brilliant.
The setting: 1930s Tibet, a monastery in the Himalayas.
The party:
- A German adventurer secretly working for Germany to discover whether--and how--a monk in the monastery has lived for 300 years. He speaks German and Tibetan.
- A German porter, big on muscle and loyalty, low on brains. He speaks only German.
- A British investigative journalist looking for her friend Professor Travers who recently disappeared in the area. She speaks English and Tibetan.
- An American private detective also looking for Professor Travers. He speaks only English.
See where this is going?
 
 
1 hour later…
11:03 AM
Fascinating.
 
11:52 AM
@BESW everything is game of telephone?
 
12:05 PM
@BESW human sacrifices to elder gods?
 
@waxeagle, @JonathanHobbs Yes.
I based it on the lost Doctor Who episode "The Abominable Snowmen."
There were yeti, and strange metal spheres, and creepy Tibetan monks.
There were scenes like one PC wrestling the other to the ground and apparently trying to saw his arm off, screaming "I'm doing this to save your life!" in a language the subdued PC understood but nobody else did.
 
@BESW oh wow XD
 
And it concluded with an exploded monastery. Only the detective and his audio journal survived.
The porter spent a lot of time shouting "What's going on? What are they saying?"
Oh, and the adventure's arc phrase was "Yetis are gentle and timid."
 
were they really?
 
If so, those weren't yetis.
(They were robots controlled by metal spheres which channeled the intelligence of an incorporeal being who'd possessed the high Lama and was trying to create its own body.)
 
12:16 PM
@BESW I was thinking "Professor Travers?!". I confess to watching the first two episodes of The Web of Fear last night.
 
@Quentin Yup. Travers was there. But mad.
@Quentin A surprisingly good story, but apparently a lot of people thought it'd have been better based on the audio, and were disappointed.
(That season was almost all "Base Under Siege" stories...)
 
yup
 
Being more Cthulhuian than Doctor Who, our version wound up with everyone except one PC dying.
The high Lama got killed by a PC.
 
Nice. Although, on the subject of Cthulhuian - ever read The Taking of Planet 5?
 
I have not.
 
12:25 PM
It has many Cthulhu Mythos references.
 
I'll have to check it out.
Doctor Who is very deeply connected to the Mythos; the Great Intelligence is Yog-Sothoth, for example.
Great Vampires, Fenric, the Gods of Rrrragnarrrok...
New Who's need to explain things too much gets in the way of it, though.
Anyway, Cthulhu Dark's insanity mechanic was awesome.
My players did a great job, and apparently (despite of them being named Kyle Cean) they genuinely got the wibbles from the story.
And the "success is default" thing was actually really great for a Mythos game.
Instead of "can I succeed?" it became an issue of "can I matter?"
In CD, success is automatic unless someone thinks failure would be interesting, and even then failure is unlikely; instead, you roll to see how you succeeded on a scale of barely to brilliantly.
I wasn't sure how that'd work in a Mythos game; all the Mythos systems I've looked at seemed to focus on making things hard for Investigators to do.
Instead, it was great! Fighting didn't happen because it's got the rule "if you try to fight, you die." But anything else was fair game, and it really drove home the idea that the Investigators were nigh-powerless to affect the Mythos events.
It took on the tone of, "Sure, you can do that, but will it matter?"
Fascinating stuff.
 
12:57 PM
That sounds really interesting, but I have no idea how to apply it. I'll have to read the rules for it at some point.
 
Really simple stuff.
> To know how well you do at something, roll:
> - One die if the task is within human capabilities.
> - One die if it’s within your occupational expertise.
> - Your Insanity die, if you will risk your sanity to succeed.
> Then your highest die shows how well you do. On a 1, you barely succeed. On a 6, you do brilliantly.
If the Insanity die is the highest, you roll it again to see if you gain one Insanity point (you start at 1 Insanity, and hitting 6 drives your character retireably insane).
If someone thinks it'd be interesting for you to fail, they can roll a single die and if they get higher than you, you fail. But that's not common.
You can always re-roll once, but your Insanity die has to be part of the re-roll.
And that's the core of the rules. There's a little more--cooperating and competing, and the ability to reduce your Insanity by suppressing Mythos knowledge once you hit 5 Insanity.
Things like "resist mind control" usually can only be done with the Insanity die.
('cause it's not within human capability or occupational expertise for most.)
Oh, and the adventure-making guide was very helpful.
It did a good job formalising the "slowly revealed knowledge" progression.
 
This game sounds fascinating
 
It really is.
The core rules are less than one front-and-back page, generously formatted.
 
1:12 PM
D'you have a link to those?
 
The clause in "competing" about how on ties, the more insane person wins? Totally came up multiple times and made lots of sense.
Handy hint: I rarely take players out of the room for solo scenes, but it worked well for this. The party happily separated itself on more than one occasion and when a single Investigator was going to run into something really Mythos-y, I'd take that player outside.
When he returned, his Investigator would invariably act strangely and change his previous behaviour somehow because of what had happened, but he wouldn't really communicate with the rest of the group well about it. The players were awesome about that.
I didn't have to say "don't tell anyone," and in fact they were free to have their characters communicate the info in-game. But it hardly ever happened, at least not intelligibly.
Oh, and it's important to enforce the "succeeding on an Insanity check means you're just holding it together, and gaining Insanity means you freak out" thing. We tend toward third-person narration of our PCs in this group, but I had them be in character for the freakouts as much as possible.
 
oh wow. xD
 
And that language barrier thing they thought up? So. Freaking. Perfect.
The sense of isolation and mistrust, the difficulty in communicating plans, the way it caused them to automatically pick sides and split the party...
 
@BESW The German speakers vs the English speakers?
 
The party split up constantly. I think they were together three times in the course of the game: at the start, in the beginning of the "second act," and at the very end.
@JonathanHobbs Yup, but also the two Tibetan speakers.
[yawn] I'm for bed. Tiring game.
ttfn
 
1:31 PM
Goodnight!
I just finished reading the rules. c:
 
1:43 PM
@BESW I am really surprised that I did live
the whole audio journal thing was partly because I half expected my character to die
also, like we talked about before, I had finished reading Dracula recently, and I figured it would be pretty cool to emulate/nod at the story telling mechanic in that
and it also turned out to be a possible way around the condition I set myself to not tell the other PC's what had happened in the room with the mind controlled head monk guy
even though no other PC ever actually got the chance to listen to it
 
@trogdor was dracula told from the POV of a journal?
 
several actually
but ALL of it was told by journal
 
oh my
I never knew this :o
 
and also audio journal
but of course,. it all read the same regardless
I thought it was a nice touch, especially considering all the things that most of the people writing said journals found out eventually through the course of the book
not all of them would have the best reasons to think they were going to be able to manage to tell their story any other way. for various reasons
 
2:00 PM
that would actually be a really good way to tell the story...
it's not a narrator telling you about a character discovering something. it's the character, telling you, or someone, their shock.
 
and anyone who dies can still tell their story
or at least most of it
obviously I wouldn't expect someone to still be writing while they died
unless it was just the most unlikely coincidence
 
@trogdor "He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the Holy Grail in the Castle of aaarrrrggh...."
 
yes
XD
 
2:47 PM
@trogdor drums, drums in the deep
 
 
3 hours later…
6:09 PM
Is something wrong with se loggin?
 
 
1 hour later…
7:19 PM
Is there a way to connect the question I posted before my loggin finally worked to my main account so I get notifications❔
 
pet
hi all,
is there a way to search for the already asked questions, or do i have to start typing a question and wait for similar suggestions
 
Top right
Use [ topic ] to filter by tag
So if you want to look for questions about flying in 5e you would do enter '[dnd-5e] flying' in the top right search box
@pet see answer above this line
 
pet
ah nice,
thx
 
7:59 PM
@GMNoob request a merge via "contact us"
 
@waxeagle thanks
 
8:15 PM
any Fate players in the room?
 
8:41 PM
Has anyone played multiple characters simultaneously in the same D&D adventure? Is that frowned upon or would it be unbalancing? For example, give players x no. of XP and let them build one mid level PC or several low level PCs by spending XPs like cash.
 
@RobertF I've done it , and it works well if you know the system it crashes hard if players don't.
Oh, sorry, I didn't read the end where you said multiple low level pcs... That's not going to work well. a bunch of level 3 chars isn't the same as 1 level 5 pc
@C.Ross BESW I think plays Fate.
 
@C.Ross [raises hand]
 
8:58 PM
@GMNoob - OK thanks - so borrowing from 3.5 level advancement costs table: if 1st level PC costs 1,000 XP, 2nd level 3,000 XP, 3rd level 6,000 XP, would a single 3rd level PC be more powerful than 6 1st level PCs?
 
@pet use is:question to filter out answer results from your search.
 
pet
@BESW 'question' can be multiple words right ?
 
Hm?
 
I thought people playing multiple PCs/buying high level PCs could help alleviate complaints that low level magic-users are underpowered.
 
@RobertF The problem becomes obvious when you consider area effects. These can easily knock out a large number of lower-level characters while not providing a signficant impediment to higher-level ones.
 
9:03 PM
@RobertF You might find this question and this one helpful if that's your goal.
@pet As an example, to track down the links above I searched wizard low level is:question.
 
pet
@BESW yezzzz,
got it
 
I could have added [dnd-3.5e] to narrow down the results further.
 
@Grubermench - Yes, if the low-level PCs are bunched together, but I understand there's a nonlinear power curve associated with PC level #.
@BESW - ah, thanks
 
(On the search page, you'll find more search phrase formats if you click "Advanced Search Tips" to the right of the Search button.)
 
@RobertF Even spread out.. the hp difference is signifcant
 
9:18 PM
@GMNoob - So maybe use hp as a guide for PC cost rather than the PC's XP?
 
Neither HP nor XP alone can be used to evaluate a character's relative agency.
 
@RobertF maybe a combo of both?
Also the to hit bonus
 
Systems like 3.5 make it VERY hard to create objective, universal rubrics for abstract comparison or rating which don't fall apart quite quickly.
@Arrowfar Hi!
 
Ok, this will be trickier than I initially thought. I'm also considering a single player campaign inspired by the old Avalon Hill game Source of the Nile, where the player builds a team of adventurers & has to find the optimal mix of classes.
 
user116848
Hey
 
9:30 PM
@RobertF I think it's best to start from the challenge rather than the solution, not least because (as the questions I linked earlier show) not everyone does feel that the power curve on casters vs non-casters starts out imbalanced the other way before casters outstrip their counterparts.
So you may be looking for a solution to a problem which isn't there.
 
@RobertF Keep the group at the same level, rather than allowing people to take different levels.
 
9:47 PM
Similar levels is generally a good idea in 3.x+ D&D.
 
Thanks, good advice. BTW I noticed the 3.5 DMG doesn't quantify hireling's cost by class & level (they're all assumed to be 0 level?) - that would be one way to quantify relative cost of PCs by levels or level & class. NPCs can be 1st level or higher for any class, but I haven't found a table for hiring NPCs.
 
The Arms and Equipment Guide covers that.
It's not especially intelligent coverage, but there it is.
At the end of the day, 3.5 has hireling rules because it feels like it ought to, not because it feels like they're important.
 
10:05 PM
Wasn't one solution to navigating the Tomb of Horrors to hire a bunch of hirelings/followers & send them ahead of the party? Or was it cattle - same thing I suppose.
 
10:16 PM
.
 
10:34 PM
@C.Ross Hey, what's up?
 
11:10 PM
@BESW was wondering what you thought about Main vs Supporting NPCs
Particularly how often you use either type
 
Hmm. Generally I lean toward minimalist NPCs at all levels of story.
 
Currently in my game we've run 3 sessions (1 scenario and started the second) but not had any main NPCs, not planning to have one till the end of the arc
 
Actually, I'm experimenting with a homebrew NPC format.
 
?
 
It starts with the FAE mook concept: instead of skills or approaches, you list one to three things the NPC is "good at" (+2 to rolls) and another one to three things they're "bad at" (-2 to rolls).
My addition is that you also give the NPC a number of aspects based on their importance to the story, and for each aspect relevant to the action they get +1 or -1 to the roll as appropriate.
 
11:15 PM
Interesting, but I think too light for my game
or my preference at least ...
 
This lets me build quick, narrative NPCs who excel in their expertise but flounder outside it.
Yeah, I'm becoming very light on NPC mechanics these days.
So, going back to your original question...
I think it's totally okay not to have "main NPCs" for long stretches.
 
Yeah, I think it's the right thing too
 
It's a different kind of game/story, putting the focus on the PCs and what they do rather than who they interact with.
 
This is a more ... traditional game with a collaborative worldbuilding/story telling bent
 
The purpose of a main NPC, as I see it, is to a) create continuity within the plot by providing a personal touchstone, and b) give a sense of a living world with pushback and its own inertia rather than an environment for the PCs to manipulate as they please
 
11:19 PM
I like the fact that supporting NPCs forces me to make them have focus, they can't be everything, but they give the PCs something significant to push off of
 
If you've getting those things from other techniques--or you don't care about them--then main NPCs are unnecessary.
 
but my problem is that so far either they're combat beasts the PCs won't take on head on, or they PCs trounce them so thoroughly I don't get to concede
once the fists do start flying, we haven't been combat focused ...
 
Ah.
Some creative number-crunching or unusual stunt/extra choices might make things interesting there.
I have a hard time finding the right balance of numbers for my NPCs' skills/approaches.
 
My experience has been that effective "main" NPCs are best as organic evolutions from "minor" NPCs that the players got interested in
 
Take a look at this answer of mine for some out-of-the-box approaches to curbstomping.
 
11:27 PM
@BESW interesting ... I'll have to think how to apply that to my game
since it's part "stories ripped from the news" and part "Kick Ass" I feel a little more constrained
 
(It works for social stuff too; the mafia boss is immune to social stress unless...)
Here's a more general concept that my hack is built on:
Enemies will try to stay in their areas of expertise and force the party to fight on their own terms. The party needs to manipulate the conditions of conflict to its own advantage.
Then the tension and challenge isn't in "beating up the CEO," but in "getting to a point where we can beat up the CEO without his bodyguards shooting us." Once you move the conflict to your own turf, it becomes easy.
(This is also good in terms of catharsis, I've found.)
 

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