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12:01 AM
@terdon Right. I thought you were finishing up some projects?
@FaheemMitha Yup, one of which I submitted today (yay!). But I've been procrastinating more than I should have. I'm not too interested in the damn things so it's been taking me way to long to finish.
@terdon Yes, not being too interested always makes it slower. Are any of them your personal projects?
Yes, but I was never that deeply into it really. It was a cool problem to work with but I'm not particularly interested in the conclusions.
@terdon The one you just submitted? What about the others?
No, the other one is the big one. The subject of my Post Doc but I don't find it that interesting. Others do, so it may well be decently received, it's just not a field I am particularly attracted to.
12:13 AM
@terdon ok. so we are talking about 2 different topics? or more?
Do you have any of this stuff online?
@FaheemMitha Well, one as a tool I developed in order to do the second. A lot of people seemed to be interested in it so I figured I may as well publish it. The real project was the one I had developed the tool for.
And no, not online, not really. I mean the tool is but that's just a database to query the probabilities of association of GO terms (Gene Ontology). Basically a way of deciding whether a particular protein's functions are similar to those of another.
12:28 AM
@terdon That doesn't mean much to me, but Ok.
5 hours later…
5:34 AM
Are anyone on?
Can any one help me?
2 hours later…
7:57 AM
@Andrew You can ask your question on the site.
5 hours later…
1:03 PM
@Gilles can you explain terdon that we do not tag based on the possible answers? I'm tired of trying to explain that to him.
@Braiam did you actually see the link I gave you? The one where the tag police himself added the tag?
I notice you haven't started an edit war over that one yet. How come?
Also, @Braiam, considering that 3 users (each of whom has more than three times your reputation here) consider the tag appropriate, don't you think you might want to get off your high horse?
Also see this nice meta post that clearly states that retagging based on answers is fine:
Q: Should I retag a question with a tag that is based on the answer and not the question?

o.k.wI tried to search for a similar question, but can't find one (yet). Here's a scenario: Someone asked about "How to build a SQL query to get count and blah blah blah..." His only tag is mysql. I added the sql and count tags to it. Someone else answered with a nice SQL statement that has a "gro...

1:18 PM
@terdon please, don't qualify me, you are not in the position to do so. You do not know me.
@Braiam what?
"don't you think you might want to get off your high horse?"
I consider that offensive
Oh, sorry, it's not.
exactly, but still I consider that an offense
To be on a high horse means to think you know better than everyone else. It is not particularly offensive and is certainly applicable to what you've been doing.
1:20 PM
I do know nothing, actually, is just what my guts feelings tell me what's actually reasonable
In any case, no offense was meant but you are really starting to piss me off with your tag approach. Especially since there seems to be no support for your position, it fails to pass the test of your own argument, it is unpopular based on the meta question here and is also not endorsed by the multiple similar meta.se posts I've found.
I do not act on "knowledge" but reason
@terdon you know why there is "no support in my tag position"? mainly?
Because it makes no sense whatsoever and you push it very aggressively?
@terdon no, because I always fight the corner cases
This is not a corner case. This is you trying to enforce your opinion as you so often do with tagging issues.
1:23 PM
ok, @terdon, you have lost your own, you know?
how many times I have won an argument about tags and you have won one?
against anybody
@Braiam Exactly 0. Not once. Never.
Sorry, I know you think otherwise but I've never understood why.
Every single argument you've started over tags you have lost as far as I know.
I lie
@terdon HA!
You won one, about the linux tag here I think. Apart from that, none.
1:25 PM
just a fallacy after other
May 1 at 17:56, by Gilles
@Braiam @terdon http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/127411/how-is-vi-aware-of-the-format-of-‌​configuration-files is specifically about vi (actually about vim), so it warrants the tag and the tag, but not nor
@Braiam OK, make that two. Do you really want me to go searching for all the others? Seriously?
@Braiam Those are not arguments, I have often upvoted tag suggestions that you've made.
@terdon exactly, but I don't always lose the argument, right?
so, some reason are behind my words right?
I'm not saying you're wrong on tags by definition, hell you are indeed more often right than wrong. I am talking about 1) the way you unilaterally enforce your opinions and 2) about those, many, cases where others disagreed with you It is only an argument when others have different opinions.
1:31 PM
@terdon actually about 2 there have been people with different opinion than mine, you know?
And this idea you have that you shouldn't retag baaed on answers is baseless as far as I can tell. It is also directly contradicted by various meta posts, including one written by an SE employee.
@Braiam Please. How many times have you had arguments with various people on AU chat about tags? You've even been banned about it for heaven's sake! Surely that should be an indication!
You think that less tags is better and that tags should not be added based on answers. That is where I disagree with you. Basically on those two points.
Hi guys. Life is too short to argue about tagging.
1 hour later…
2:47 PM
Good morning all :)
2:58 PM
Hi @Ramesh
Hello @FaheemMitha, how are you today?
@Ramesh I'm Ok, how are you? Still doing the server setup?
@FaheemMitha, It's a long process. Actually we have 10 servers all having 1 to 2 TB data. So I am doing it slowly since I do not want to mess it up :)
@Ramesh What are you doing exactly?
Looks like we are going to be having a new moderator.
@FaheemMitha, I am a Masters thesis student.
I work part time at the school as the systems admin.
3:04 PM
@Ramesh Yes, I know. I meant with the servers in question.
Oops. We had some security threats scanned by the nessus tool. So, all the servers that had Ubuntu had to be reinstalled with RHEL for security concerns.
@slm, are you contesting? My vote is for you :) meta.unix.stackexchange.com/questions/2924/…
@Ramesh Why RHEL instead of Ubuntu?
@FaheemMitha, We have professional support for all RHEL machines.
@Ramesh Oh, I see. How do you like RHEL?
But on a side note, I like RHEL more than Ubuntu.
3:12 PM
@Ramesh Ok. What do you think of Debian?
@FaheemMitha, I have not worked much with Debian so far. I think Debian is kind of more windows with fancy GUI and stuffs.
@Ramesh I'm not sure what you mean.
@FaheemMitha, I mean Ubuntu has good graphical interfaces compared to RHEL machines.
I think ubuntu gets a lot of unwarranted mistrust as a server distro because it's popular for desktop use.
Being good at one doesn't mean it's not at the other.
That being said, some stuff about ubuntu/debian drives me absolutely batshit freakin insane
Hello @Patrick, yeah I also do not like Ubuntu for servers. It actually complicates the setup.
3:22 PM
@Ramesh how so?
For instance, we have satellite support for RHEL which fixes most of the security vulnerabilities and is reliable. However, with Ubuntu there is no guaranteed support like that.
@Patrick, I believe these are extremely useful in the real world. However, in the school environment, at least in our school, most of the professors still do not prefer virtualization.
And the security team in our school, have acquired RHEL support and insist us on using it for all the servers.
@Ramesh ok, now I'm getting confused. We go from complicated setup to large scale management to virtualization...
@Patrick, The servers are not that complicated in the school. And the security team insist us on using RHEL support since they have acquired the professional support.
3:29 PM
@Ramesh How does that "complicate the setup"?
@Patrick, let me take back what I told about Ubuntu. Actually, the servers that am currently working on have Ubuntu 8.10 setup. The way the NFS is setup in these machines is, all the 8 servers are setup as NFS client and NFS server.
However, if we use autofs the setup would be much more simpler.
@Ramesh We still have 2, do we need more?
@slm, why not? I mean it would be nice to have someone like you in the moderators panel :)
There's going to be an election Monday
I personally wouldn't want mod powers. I like the democracy, and requiring multiple people agreeing on something to perform an action. Just my viewpoint.
3:38 PM
@Patrick, I would define moderator as someone by people, for people. How about that?
@Ramesh I thought we were talking about Debian. You know Ubuntu and Debian are different, right?
@Patrick Like what?
@FaheemMitha, oh really? I was not aware of that. I mean I always thought Ubuntu belonged to Debian family.
@Ramesh Ubuntu is a Debian derivative. There are many Debian derivatives. Ubuntu is not run by Debian.
@FaheemMitha package management. I dislike their stance on several subjects. Like I hate that when you install a package, it immediately starts it up for you. And building a deb is a royal PITA. RPMs are easy to build.
@Ramesh Not sure what you mean by family.
@Patrick I disagree about the package management. I think it is pretty good. As far as starting up a package when it is installed, this is (possibly unfortunately) I think left to the maintainers discretion. Often the package will be disabled by default, or will ask you at installation time if you want it to be enabled.
@slm It's occasionally useful to have a diamond moderator around.
And it would be helpful if it was someone who hangs out here regularly. I wonder if @derobert would be interested. I'm guessing probably not.
You really need someone level-headed for the job. Otherwise it can cause problems.
3:50 PM
Hmmm. Maybe. @MichaelMrozek, you mean an election on Unix.SE? What's the workload like?
Not high, but two mods would be unusually low. We're going up to four apparently
@MichaelMrozek 4 for this site?
@terdon "You think that less tags is better and that tags should not be added based on answers. That is where I disagree with you. Basically on those two points" and here is were you get my entire position wrong: irrelevant tags should go and you shouldn't tag a question based solely in the possible answers
@derobert You have my vote.
heck, there are 2 answers that doesn't use tail!
3:52 PM
@FaheemMitha ...yes; why do people keep thinking I'm talking about some other site :)
@MichaelMrozek Just making sure. :-) So, are all sites getting 4 mods, or is this decided on a site-by-site basis?
@MichaelMrozek apparently, the current mod team does a pretty good job, making us think more aren't needed :-P
@FaheemMitha No, having an election when somebody steps down is normal. Not sure why we're going to 4 instead of 3, it's probably just the default with elections
It may or may not be crazy depending on how many people nominate
@Ramesh dunno, I've always tried to keep impartial by doing the day to day and answering Q's but not being an actual mod.
@MichaelMrozek "the default with elections"? Don't follow. If one person steps down, the usual expected thing would be an election for one person, surely.
3:55 PM
@Patrick That's kind of my position as well.
@terdon read deroberts "rant" in his answer, specifically last part, if you already know that the solution is tail as the tag made people think, why would you ask the question in first place?
@FaheemMitha I meant that it's probably the default with new elections to be two people, unless SE sets it to something else. It might change, there's a week before the election even opens. I would expect it to be one-to-one too, but I'm not sure what'll happen
Well, sometimes having a diamond mod is useful. It doesn't matter terribly who as long as (a) he is around a lot of the time (b) he's not going to lose and get drunk with his power or something. :-)
@slm, It's really upto you but when I initially started in this site, I thought you were one of the moderators :)
I think in pratice such a person should probably be operating via community concensus anyway.
@MichaelMrozek Hmm. Well if we elect two people, and one of them leaves, then we elect two more people, making 5? I see an arithmetic progression here. :-)
3:58 PM
I'd have to discuss it w/ Michael 1st. I'm not sure what I'd be getting into if i did it.
well off to lunch
Another possibility is Anthon. he does a lot of admin type work here anyway, right?
@MichaelMrozek It might be that if they're going through the effort of an election, its not much more effort to add one more mod if they want.
Though I don't know if he is around that much.
@FaheemMitha Yes, I think we have a good pool of potential candidates here, which is a good thing 8-)
We'll just all have to change our screen names to various text editors, then we can have a proper fight over it :-D
4:01 PM
@derobert Hmm?
@derobert That's an excellent idea
@FaheemMitha One candidate changes his/her screen name to vi, another to emacs, etc.
@derobert And then eveyone votes for their preferred text editor?
I'd vote for deroberts
I will change my name to "Emacs/Vim/nano/ed/your-favorite-editor".... an easy win :D
4:03 PM
@FaheemMitha Seems as good as voting for the taller guy, which is how elections are traditionally decided.
@Braiam Just set your name to $EDITOR
@Patrick darn, fantastic idea
Does the site let your username start with $? I think not.
actually I should name myself root
/me had better claim sensible-editor before someone else thinks of it.
4:06 PM
AHHA! I'm not the only one who does /me when it doesn't work :-)
@derobert That's news to me. I thought people just voted for their favorite psycho.
@FaheemMitha only when they agree with em :P
when both are the same kind of psycho
@Braiam right. that was implied.
@FaheemMitha voanews.com/content/… is one Google result.
@derobert Interesting. So perhaps being the taller psycho helps.
4:11 PM
@FaheemMitha Apparently. I have no idea about the quality of the research behind those stories.
@derobert Yes, I wouldn't put too much stock in such things.
Indeed. I treat it as sufficient quality to make jokes about, and that's it.
@slm The chances of it causing you to spend more time fixing the site than you already do seem slim to none really.
@derobert so you would consider being a moderator then?
4:12 PM
@derobert cool
@derobert, hurray :)
@Patrick I should write a better chat.SE extension/userscript to make /me work sometime. But yeah, many years of IRC.
@derobert Excellent.
ok @MichaelMrozek, spill the beans, we have to sign a contract with blood, offer the first born or what to be a moderator?
@Patrick (there is one that rewrites the message and sets it in italic or something... but it doesn't quite look right.)
4:14 PM
@Braiam All of the above I think.
@Braiam, game of thrones for the iron throne :D
Edward Snowden thinks Russia is much better than prison. Now, that's a ringing endorsement. Any Russians here?
someone told me that being a moderator is a soul sucking experience D:
@derobert yeah, with the image after the username, i imagine much of anything you do will look "not right"
4:16 PM
I will make company to slm now now :P (aka off to lunch)
@Patrick well, I'd get it to look right but you'd have to have the userscript installed to make it look right.
@derobert So, if you become moderator, will you also become drunk with power?
@FaheemMitha a moderator being drunk in power is mandatory
@Braiam Remind me not to vote for you.
@FaheemMitha Absolutely! I'll become drunk with the power of destroying spam with one flag! MWAHAHA!
4:18 PM
@derobert :-) I don't think we get much spam here though.
@FaheemMitha No, we don't. But its not healthy to be drunk all the time. Best to only do so occasionally.
@derobert True.
@FaheemMitha :(
4:38 PM
@Braiam we don't tag based on possible answers, except when we do. It's a general guideline, not an absolute rule.
e.g. if someone asks how to schedule a job every Sunday morning, is an appropriate tag, even if the asker hadn't heard of cron before
@Gilles that I can agree
how about running a script every 5 minutes?
@Braiam isn't just about the tail(1) utility, but about “tailing”, i.e. watching a file grow (which gets its name from tail -f). #needstagwiki
@Gilles ahhh, that would explain
@derobert its not just the spam. Think of all the obsolete, chatty comments you can delete, and the frivolous flags you can decline! POWER!
I think is a case of there is really only one answer. There are other ways, but they're pretty much for when you can't/won't use cron for some reason.
4:41 PM
I was taking "tail" as: the tail comand
@MichaelMrozek No, there've been elections for 1 mod. We're going up to 4 either because the powers that be believe that you're overloaded, or because they decided to do it based on traffic alone
@casey Oh, but that's nothing to get drunk on. That's like trying to get excited about vacuuming the house, or dusting the blinds.
Among all the sites with >35 q/day, I think Unix & Linux and TeX - LaTeX are the only ones that don't have at least 5 mods
@derobert yes, but you can do all of those things with a beer in the other hand :) As for the vacuuming and dusting, that nails the moderator role pretty good.
@Gilles Could also be that @MichaelMrozek isn't always around. We do sometimes have mod issues sit in the queue for a while...
4:44 PM
@Braiam ok, I just skimmed through chat. I haven't followed your conversation with terdon. And I don't want to know.
@MichaelMrozek All sites normally have at least 3 mods regardless of workload, so that it isn't a single person lording over it all and that two people don't get into a conflict with no available third voice
@Braiam I did it with steganography
@terdon as general rule, whenever we start discussing about tags lets check the tag wiki/except first
if it's empty or ambiguous, then lets discuss that instead
@Braiam Actually, I think the best general rule is that you and I avoid discussing tags altogether. I don't think we've ever managed to have a constructive discussion on the subject. Let's keep to other subjects where we are likelier to agree with each other and let our votes do the talking on this one.
And I know that I am often the one that starts it, I'm not blaming you or anything.
@terdon are you going to apply for moderator?
There is a lot of tag work we could do that we all agree on, and just ignore the edge cases for now...
@terdon nah, I some times like a good argument for stuff I'm interested into (like every human out there)
4:55 PM
@FaheemMitha I might do, yes. I'll see how the election goes and who else runs.
@terdon If it is between you and @derobert that would be a tough call.
@Braiam Oh, I love a good argument, as I'm sure you must have realized by now :) I just don't think you and I have good arguments over tags.
@FaheemMitha Well, if there are two openings, you won't have to :-P
dammit @derobert, why you inb4 all of us!
4:56 PM
@derobert good point
I do hope Anthon runs though, he's basically a mod anyway. As are slm ad gilles but they've both stated they're not interested in modding in the past.
@terdon yes, i mentioned Anthon earlier. though he does not seem to be around that much.
@terdon well, if Gilles postulates there will be only one position available :P
@Braiam Yeah, he can take up three places alone.
@Braiam unix.stackexchange.com/election/2 lists 2 moderator positions open
5:01 PM
@casey is a joke that surged in SU
@terdon, wow if you contest you get my vote :)
@Ramesh Thanks :)
@Braiam :)
@kapa: I'm pretty certain that new questions about programming will be invented as soon as we're finished, so "all" we need to do is: (1) answer all the good questions that exist in the universe; (2) delete everything else from the site; (3) continue answering all new good questions as they're invented. Not necessarily in that order. Mission accomplished. — Steve Jessop yesterday
looks like a good mission statement :)
5:38 PM
@terdon should I run for it? I implicitly trust your judgement
5:51 PM
@slm, the grep +i is supposed to return all the files have this flag set right?
6:18 PM
@Ramesh - I think that example is wrong from the google link
grep +i looks for a literal +i
@slm The question is - do you want to?
someone should gift me a 500GB hard disk so I can store Stargate series :D
@FaheemMitha If we do not have any other volunteers I might consider it. But if deroberts + anthon want to then I would be fine w/ them.
@slm terdon also said he would consider it.
i think anthon is a pretty natural choice though. when he is around he acts like a moderator anyway.
6:34 PM
@FaheemMitha - so there are 3 potential candidates, deroberts, anthon, and terdon, assuming they're agreeable to this of course.
@slm at least. anthon isn't around atm, so no idea how he feels about it.
@FaheemMitha - he's been around, he was working the review Q's last night when I was as well.
@slm oh. energetic chap.
reviews are so boring. i wonder how anyone can do it regularly.
I generally like doing it
lots of editing and fixing of Q's & A's
> how to raise rates and avoid crappy clients
how to raise quality and avoid crappy questions :P
6:51 PM
Arg! The last part of this question is bad... unix.stackexchange.com/q/134299/41104
7:03 PM
@slm I do a fair amount of editing too. It is good practice in proofreading, but otherwise of little interest. I've been editing the academia site a fair amount. There is actually more scope there - most of the questions/answers are of essay type.
anyone up to learn C the hard way. please, I don't want to be the only victim :(
@Braiam I already know C. Well, at least I did at one point, I've probably forgotten a fair bit :-(
@derobert we all knew C.. at some point of our lives
8:17 PM
c.learncodethehardway.org/book/ex3.html "External Research": "For this exercise I want you to go online and find out all of the printf escape codes and format sequences. Escape codes are \n or \t that let you print a newline or tab (respectively). Format sequences are the %s or %d that let you print a string or a integer. Find all of the ones available, how you can modify them, and what kind of "precisions" and widths you can do."
HAHAHAHAHA, this guy is evil.
@Braiam though, for true evil, need Learn C++ the Hard Way
@Braiam step 1, find your copy of the the STL. step 2, attempt to read the source.
@derobert nah, the true evil is learning regexes the hard way... (cc @avinash)
@Braiam Nah. That can't be worse than C++. Especially since C++ contains regexes now.
even without regexes, templates are crazy
I am using Chrome 35 on Mint 17. It cannot detect the plugins that Firefox 29 can. Why? This did not happen before.
@JasperLoy chrome drop nsapi support in v35
@Patrick OK. In layman terms what does that mean? I am only trying to use the icedtea plugin and the totem plugin.
8:29 PM
there was a question a while back about that..
Does it mean I can only use Firefox to use those plugins?
Q: Gnome Shell Integration in Chrome not working

bak202Just upgraded to Ubuntu 14.04, which seems to also make a full reinstall of Chromium (as all my plugins were removed). Now, trying to access https://extensions.gnome.org/ to enable Gnome Shell extensions, but the message: We cannot detect a running copy of GNOME on this system, so some parts...

different plugin, same reason
Haha, this is BAD NEWS!
Chrome 35 also broke the compose key. Now when I type Compose, -, -, - I do not get an em-dash. Instead, I get a reminder to use a working browser, like Firefox.
(there is supposedly a fix in the VCS tree, hopefully in the next Chrom[ium])
By the way, Mint 17 has a pepper flash plugin in its repositories. What is that? Can we install that and use it in Firefox?
8:34 PM
No. Pepper flash is for Chrome/Chromium only
@derobert works for me (Chrome stable 35.0.1916.114)
Wow, they are trying to make users decide on one of the two browsers, lol.
@Gilles Are you using xim, or GTK's simple method? I think the easiest way is to see if - - . gives en-dash while - - - gives em-dash.
Think I should go back to Windows instead, lol.
@JasperLoy the same is there
NPAPI support was dropped for all platforms
8:36 PM
@Braiam Ah OK, I will probably use IE on Windows then, lol.
@derobert native X
@Gilles odd, it doesn't work for me, same version. And the bug report says it is known broken...
maybe a bug in the Gnome integration then? I don't use Gnome
@Braiam Thanks for your answer. I have publicised this in another room.
8:39 PM
I have GTK_IM_MODULE=xim but XMODIFIERS is unset
Same. I'm not even sure what XMODIFIERS is.
apparently is XMODIFIERS=@im=
@Braiam Ok. It's apparently for if you're writing a non-European language, mostly.
➜  ~  grep -r XMODIFIER /etc/*
/etc/X11/Xsession.d/70im-config_launch:if [ -z "$XMODIFIERS" ] && \
/etc/X11/Xsession.d/70im-config_launch:    export XMODIFIERS
only ibus, im-config related package use that
9:04 PM
@slm I thought the same thing. I mean, we managed fine before; @mattdm stepping down won't change much...
@strugee how do you know how many flags each mod handles behind the scenes?
@Gilles good point
I dunno, if the other mods are overloaded an election's fine, but it just seems like we're doing okay.
oh well. I got to do this:
A: When are we likely to have another election?

strugeeThere will be one on Monday.

@Patrick I do too :P
@strugee Which "monday". When a month goes by, is the answer still "Monday"? Also that's just the nominations, election is another couple weeks. unix.stackexchange.com/election/2
9:22 PM
@Patrick Good point. Putting in the date in there makes sense.
9:35 PM
dunno why but SE loves to log me out!
@Braiam Been happening to me a lot lately too. I could be actively on the site browsing around and all of a sudden I'm just logged out.
for me is just the chat
and only on chat.SE... chat.mse seems unnafected
10:00 PM
@Patrick timestamps
eh. feel free to edit
@strugee - looks like you'll be getting those badges 8-)
@Braiam I'd try deleting all your SE cookies, etc. and see if that fixes it. Haven't seen it here.
10:17 PM
Me neither.
11:09 PM
@terdon this interest you meta.stackoverflow.com/q/257949/792066
11:50 PM
@terdon - you should mod.

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