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12:00 AM
@enderland I'm on the fence personally, and I'm a bit disturbed that we only have three people nominated right now. We should have at least 6, if not 9, so that we have a choice and can get the best candidates. There are definitely that many people qualified, so the lack of nominations worries me.
@jmac my biggest problem is I can't even reasonably commit to something where I'm going to be 1/3 the moderation team (ignoring how SE is officially community moderated) - there will be a lot of time in the next months and years of my life I'm not able to make this level of committment
@enderland I think that most of us are the same way. The way I look at it is: can I commit 30 minutes a day for the next 6 months until people get their privileges back? And if the answer is yes, I trust that the community will pick up the slack longer term.
for me it's not easy to commit to something knowing I will not be able to do as good as I would expect myself to
And it isn't easy for me either, which is why I kept declining to run every time I was asked. But when the time came, I realized "This community is more important than my personal quibbles about how things should be, or how I'd like to do things in an ideal world"
You have been pretty regular about participating in moderating this site over the year I've been here. Unless you are expecting a severe change to that level of participation (and a foreseeable one, not just a "what if"), I can't imagine that your level of participation wouldn't be well above what I would expect of a mod.
Not trying to force you in to it, just want you to make the decision for the right reasons, and not just because it is easier not to run than to make a commitment.
there are a few reasons by this point, all of which I consider quite valid
12:08 AM
Not going to pry -- hope that everything goes well and all that.
12:27 AM
Q: How to clock time on a mandatory shuttle?

Obviously_AnonMost of my organization's employees park at the office, but there aren't enough spots for everyone. The company has an overflow lot 10 minutes from the building where about 20% of the employees are required to park. The company provides a shuttle to and from the office. My question is: When shou...

we had this question before, right?
12:47 AM
@enderland I don't think so (though if it was before 2013, I wouldn't recognize it if it had been asked)
@jmac I would expect hot questions to be among the top 2-3 issues facing the site and that's covered in another answer, so maybe that's part of it. Given that there will only be 10 questions, I tend to prefer broader ones to more-specific ones (so long as they aren't so broad that there's no meat). For example, I downvoted the one about the close-votes queue because while yeah, that's important, it's just one example of the binding diamond vote and I'd prefer a broader answer.
Oops I meant to ping @gnat on that. ^^^
@MonicaCellio 100% on the same page as you are. And may I suggest you nominate yourself while you're at it? It's non-binding through the primaries, so it can't hurt to put your name out there.
@jmac I'm going to comment on that over in the election room shortly.
@MonicaCellio Appreciated. Having only 3 nominees is not a very good sign....
@jmac I agree. I was expecting more candidates, and especially expecting at least one current mod.
12:51 AM
Yeah, that part really shocked me. In a not-good way.
@enderland , I am not sure do you got notified my reply or not. Just replying again. Is there any difference it makes between work goals and life goals? However to answer your question I am talking about my work goals
1:18 AM
@jmac see the other room.
1:56 AM
@MonicaCellio Responded to (in the other room)
2:31 AM
@enderland a similar one I think it was real early in beta. But I can not seem to find it
2:48 AM
@BVR sorry, I think I missed that - I think work goals are easier to incorporate into "how can I tell if my work is meeting my goals" and a lot more on topic than, "how can I tell if my job is meeting my life goals"
@jmac Its only Wedensday... I am really hoping that the current mod crew are just waiting for the weekend so as not to scare off anyone considering running but not wanting to compete with them.
There are a few others I think would like to see put in as well.
@Chad Are there really people who would be scared off by seeing jmort or Jim or Nick running? I can't imagine that happening, but then again I'm no Oracle.
3:13 AM
@jmac I Dont think scared off, so much as defer to them out of respect maybe
@Chad I thought I remember you answering one about that, actually, about driving time within a closed campus
@enderland yeah...
3:31 AM
@enderland is there a way to search deleted questions? I wonder if it is in there.
If I remember right it was a pretty contentious question.
ok heading to bed night
4:19 AM
@AlexM. Could I kindly request not to use terms like 'editraping' which some (myself included) find offensive? Editing is a collective activity on the SE sites, and while your personal preference may be to wait for clarification, we have a long history of aggressive edits here on The Workplace to bear in mind.
If you want to bring up the discussion on what appropriate edits are, especially in the context of this specific question, please feel free to do so on meta.
1 hour later…
5:46 AM
@MonicaCellio you wrote hot questions covered in another answer. I couldn't find it, can you help? or maybe I misread?
1 hour later…
7:12 AM
@AlexM.: I agree with @jmac. One of my questions was editraped when I was younger. It wasn't funny and it was very traumatizing.
Q: I would like to contribute my effort for free to the IT world

user3462253Do you know of any open sources online that allow me to contribute my effort to ? because I would like to have something to write in my CV. I have been unemployed for a long time. I don't know if my question fits here, please suggest a room or move this to wherever is best suited.

^^^ What a swell guy.
7:55 AM
@jmac oh, not this <yeah> again
fine, I won't say it again
I'll never understand how people can find such things offensive, it's not even aimed at them or people for what it's worth
@JimG. lol
@AlexM. People like jmac put a lot of time and effort into editing the questions into a good shape and to make them of a high quality. Calling it 'editraping' is like saying you don't value his time or efforts and you would rather it be left alone.
(Not saying that is what you are saying, but that's how it can come across)
that is not what I meant by editraping
what I called editraping was the question going through tens of edits in less than 10 minutes, which in the end resulted in the question having nothing to do with its original meaning
If you compare the first and last versions of the post, there is pretty much no difference in the question other than the way its worded, so i'm not sure what you mean when you say it has nothing to do with the original meaning
but on a more general note appending 'rape' or 'raping' to a word generally has pretty negative connotations! :P
@RhysW that's because Chad edited it to be closer to the original question than starsplusplus' version
8:10 AM
starplusplus only added in the information from the comments
the information the OP should have originally given in the post
@RhysW It has nothing to do with validation of my efforts in editing, and everything to do with the casual use of the word 'rape'. The general idea is that 'rape' is not something to be lightly or casually discussed, and that it isn't a generally descriptive word to be tacked on especially on something as...insignificant...as an edit on a website. Who it's aimed at is irrelevant, what matters is the potential harm it can do to a reader, directed or not.
but anyways, not trying to get at you about specific questions / answers, just trying to explain why some people might not like the term editraping :)
@jmac yeah, i sort of tried to say the same thing in one of my above notes, though perhaps not as well as you managed
it's really hard to not offend someone considering different things offend different people
@AlexM. 'rape' generally offends everyone i find ;)
except me
that being said yes, I agree it can offend more people than other similar words
8:14 AM
and you are free to continue using the word, just understand that other poeple will find it offensive
I remember saying something offensive about a particular group of people over on gd.se once, and since those people were a really popular topic at the time, everyone flagged me for being ultra offensive
different cultures and people find different things offensive, of course we don't expect anybody to memorize every possible right and wrong thing to say, all we ask is that you are a little more considerate once someone does point out 'hey i find this offensive, please don't'
then, I said something even worse about another group of people coming from my country, and nobody did anything because they didn't care
that sort of disgusted me
There is just no need to use it. Does it add anything to your sentence? Wouldn't it be fine to say, "when it's safe to assume nobody will be dramatically editing it then" instead? I don't find it appropriate, and since you've agreed not to use it, I don't see any issue here.
and showed me how much people who flag things for being offensive smell like hypocrites
8:17 AM
(I am also 'that guy' who will call people out for using slurs in a video game or other 'casual' context even when it's generally accepted by the community. I don't find slurs or making serious things like rape or suicide more casual to be appropriate in any context)
changing topic, i wonder if both jmort and jim will nominate themselves this weekend
@RhysW I hope so. We need more nominees.
I was wondering if the election would really end with the existing three nominees selected automatically :D
i think they said they are waiting so as not to scare off other candidates
it is a shame there isnt a couple more people, but i can understand why some of the people i have in mind might not want to
It'd be quite nice to have either Monica or Rachel run, (preferably both!), as from what I have seen they already have moderator type attitudes and an understanding of the issues here
@RhysW Monica should toss her hat in the ring at the very least, and hopefully a few more. If she does, and we also get jmort and Jim, that brings it up to 6. I have hopes that someone else will hop in, perhaps beth, or HLGEM, or the like.
8:26 AM
@jmac I think Monica expressed an interest, depending on who else ran, though I might be misremembering
Good morning, too
in Workplace 2014 Election, 6 hours ago, by Monica Cellio
@jmac that makes sense. I guess if I'm really clear about what kind of moderation I'll be able to supply, the community can then decide if that's ok. Mostly I want to make sure that I'm neither signing up for more than I can do nor disappointing the community because I didn't do what they expected.
Hey CMW :P
She will likely nominate, you can see the discussion over the in the election room in full, but she was hesitant because she was worried that she wouldn't provide what the community is looking for, and I kindly explained that is what the election process is for. Hopefully she will nominate herself so that the community is at least given a choice in the matter, as I think she'd be a good candidate.
8:29 AM
Has Michael Gubrey said anything about it yet?
The discussion starts from this post:
in Workplace 2014 Election, 7 hours ago, by Monica Cellio
@jmac, carrying over from the Water Cooler, small wall of text coming right up:
@jmac That and I don't know what country to fly to to encourage her to nominate herself. I atleast knew where to go to bug you :P
@CMW I haven't seen him much lately, so not sure
ah! someone from another time zone, too
@jmac Perfect! finds plane tickets
8:30 AM
@RhysW you sure are happy to fly to countries to force people to do stuff
It's what I hope to bring to the moderating table :P
This user made a good post? Better fly to their house and shake their hand
@AlexM. he's very american that way
@AlexM. not force! encourage :P
@RhysW liberate
I was just thinking that
8:34 AM
@CMW lol
so he flies to countries to bring democracy to them
and during lunch breaks he convinces people to become moderators
yup <3
Yes. like getting them to participate in elections
that's the spirit
in Workplace 2014 Election, 6 hours ago, by Monica Cellio
@jmac understood. And don't worry; you can't force me. :-) It's my decision, but I asked for input because I value it in making that decision.
I used the word 'cajole'
in Workplace 2014 Election, 6 hours ago, by jmac
@MonicaCellio (I may not be able to force you, but I certainly can cajole and otherwise be devious)
@jmac that's no word
that sounds like dinner
@jmac That is a word I have not heard in a long time
8:36 AM
@CMW Yes it is: "persuade (someone) to do something by sustained coaxing or flattery."
Kind of like how I got RhysW to nominate himself to be a mod, right @RhysW?
@jmac Hah, too much cajoling, I might just have been 'dealt with' if i left the nominations as only two members! :P
"we have ways"
@CMW Funnily enough, I always heard the phrase as being related to a German, with it said in a German-esque accent (W -> V, V -> F, etc.)
Am I the only person who doesn't attribute that accent to the germans? Whenever i hear it it just doesn't make 'German' spring to mind
8:41 AM
I'll remember to try and do a german accent vhen ve meet
Though my german exchange partner did actually use soft letters, so perhaps thats why i dont attribute it there
@RhysW Judging form "How I Met Your Mother", what americans attribute to German is... odd
I love the fact, though, that an increasing number of 'German' roles in US and canadian TV shows are actually played by germans
or native speakers, at least
@CMW Ahh but im not American!
@RhysW That's why I figured you knew better. Proximity might be key
I think it may be a regional thing. Germany is a big country with many different types of people in it. There are the Serious Germans, and the adventurous backpacking beer-drinking Germans. And never the twain shall meet.
8:48 AM
@jmac Yeah my exchange partner was a different region to everyone elses
@jmac Then there's Berlin. Where all meets.
@RhysW Exchange Partner, Germany. Population: 1.
I visited Dusseldorf for two weeks or so as a kid
@CMW Tyler Cowen of Marginal Revolution fame absolutely raves about Berlin. I've never been to Berlin, but I have been to Frankfurt-area, and Dusseldorf/Cologne-area in the recent past.
I liked it but tbh unless you go somewhere like in Asia, the differences between people exist, but are not many enough to make the place feel truly different from other European countries
Germany really felt like a richer and more sophisticated Romania, that was about it
8:52 AM
And I am absolutely astonished to have learned that Cologne is totally not actually Cologne, but rather Köln. This was coupled by my shock of learning that Wrocław, Poland was what I heard about by it's German name of Breslau.
That's the name we gave it, when it was germany :D
Every place I visit in Europe feels incredibly different. And a lot of the places in Asia actually feel rather similar to me.
If any of you ever come to visit berlin: I have beer in the fridge
@CMW Yeah, I know that now, but I was wondering how I had never heard of this Wroclaw place.
Same with Szczecin -> Stettin
8:54 AM
@CMW If I visit Berlin, we are going out to a beer hall to eat some pretzels and drink some beer and eat some good food. What's the specialty in Berlin?
and we do it to italian cities too
@CMW Never heard of either to be honest.
Bolzano -> Bozen
@jmac Pretty much everything non-german
We have a BBQ place here that serves authentic pulled pork smoked for 16 hours
When I visited Poland, I loved the pork lard and minced pork spread on brown bread. That was awesome.
@jmac I used to play a lot of Patrician 2 as a kid
8:56 AM
And when around Frankfurt, the German version of ravioli was absolutely delicious.
and Cologne was one of the towns you could trade with
I was surprised to see it was actually "Koln"
I had raw pork on bread in Dusseldorf too. That was delicious, but probably isn't a good idea to eat regularly.
@jmac oh! Maultaschen
8:57 AM
@CMW Sure, that was absolutely delicious. An awesome creamy mushroom sauce with it, and a nice Pilsner and a Weissbier to wash it down with.
yep, that really is awesome
(yes, I know Weissbier is a Munich thing, and I almost got thrown out of the hotel I was staying at in Dussedorf for ordering one there)
In the region I'm from we have a special from BBQ called 'Schwenken'
Yes! That sounds delicious. If I find my way to Berlin, we will have BBQ and beer.
The term Schwenker is a local term from the German state of Saarland, the Mosel Valley and big parts of Rheinland Pfalz and is used in three ways, all relating to the same grilled meat: # Schwenker or Schwenkbraten is a marinated pork neck steak which originates from the Saarland (known there as Schwenksteak) and is grilled on a Schwenker (2). Normally either a green herb or red paprika marinade is used when preparing Schwenkbraten. Traditionally, Schwenkbraten is made of pork, but turkey variants have also become popular recently. Schwenkbraten are about the size of a hand in leng...
(there's even a spanish version of that article)
8:59 AM
When I was in London many moons ago, my friend took me to an American themed BBQ party. I found it hilarious that I felt out of place despite being the only American. I felt so sad that that is how folks from my country look to the Brits.
Berliner Weisse (; alternative German spelling, Berliner Weiße) is a cloudy, sour, wheat beer of around 3% abv. It is a regional beer from Northern Germany, mainly Berlin, dating back to the 16th century. By the 19th century, Berliner Weisse was the most popular alcoholic drink in Berlin, and 700 breweries produced it. By the late 20th century, there were only two breweries left in Berlin producing the beer, and a few in other parts of Germany. The name is protected in Germany, where it may only be applied to beers brewed in Berlin. However, there are a number of American and Canad...
3%?! 3%?! That means you can have twice as much, right?
CMW, the Schwenkermeister.
it's basically a tastier Apfelschorle
@jmac I will take a picture with my apron on. Which says exactly that. "Schweinkmeischder" (the local dialect version)
Okay, Berlin has been put on the list of European cities. After Prague.
Anyway, quitting time.
@jmac quittin? ive just started!
speaking of, catch you all later :P
9:03 AM
Enjoy your day, be good, and take a look at this question and apply a liberal dose of (merited) downvotes/upvotes.
we will
enjoy your evening
Morning all
Did anyone else get a Email about a t-shirt to be sent out?
somebody mentioned something about connecting with some of us
shog maybe?
@MichaelGrubey you gonna be running for mod?
also hi
@MichaelGrubey I did. Just overlooked it between the other stack exchange mails.
yes, hi too
9:19 AM
:/ they dont make the shirt in my size
that's unfortunate. maybe you can get in touch with tim and work something out
US small is too big for me i think :L
hmm on further investigation, perhaps not, we will go with that option :D
buff up!
if only it were that easy!
just teasing
9:22 AM
Don't worry, I took it as teasing :)
You'd be hard pressed to insult me successfully
I'll keep that in mind!
(not taking it as a challenge tho)
haha, years of customer facing positions pretty much dull you to any insults
aren't you only 19?
yup, and worked since i was 16
9:27 AM
20 in under a month, leaving the teens behind!
That line just sounds like you've been doing such jobs for the last 20 years :)
@RhysW so I'm older than you? that's good to know lol
@AlexM. I guess so, not sure how old you are :P if you are older than (20 years minus 16 days), then yeah you are older than me!
21 yeah
seems we started working at the same age
you can call me Alex-senpai if you want ;) ;) ;)
just kidding lol
who are you @Alex and what is your intent here
name, rank, service id
9:34 AM
@AlexM. hah, what field do you work in again?
utility software dev before, game programming now
thats the one
seems i am literally following your footsteps then
@Alex your silence tells me many things
i make websites ect now, slowly moving into game dev in my personal time
neat :D gamedev sure is fun, though I do try from time to time to do other stuff
9:37 AM
@AlexM. Don't scare away the new guys
like when I started setting up that bug tracking system, I enjoyed it so much I spent two days just writing SQL queries
@CMW I'm just kidding here :P
I know :)
I have big plans, starting is the hardest part
once ive started its easy to keep going
starting is always the hardest part, yup
not sure who people attribute this quote to
@RhysW Hey dude :). Nah I'm going to be. My site activity is very minimal compared to many others so I don't feel as though I would be a good fit. Also I'm not on here as much as I wish I could be.
9:40 AM
Thats a shame but makes sense :)
@CMW Ok awesome thanks.
@RhysW Do you have another doppelganger?
I have loads, apparently I am everyone
@MichaelGrubey So how have things been?
Whatcha been up to, new job?
9:56 AM
@RhysW Yeah a new job....well newish I guess. Been here for about 5 months now so I guess you could call that new. Got a new place for me and the missus and a new car. Been a good few months thats for sure. What about you?
Nice!, been at my job for about 5 months now too :P
dont have a new house, or missus, or car though, so i guess thats where we differ :P
What work are you currently doing now? You need to get out there on the market...well the wifey and property market anyways :L
hah, not prepared for either yet, software dev for work, mostly websites for clients
Q: Hitting client deadlines with the App Store review process

Dan RobinsonA client has requested a fast turnaround on a public iOS app. We know we can manage it with the resources available, but distributing via the Apple App Store is an unknown to us. I understand that Apple can be fairly opaque regarding their review times and their rejection policies, and my conce...

^^^ managing customer expectations in a situation like that, good enough to migrate to Workplace?
"How can I explain to a client that the delivery date is dependent on a third party"
10:03 AM
it can be reformulated to say "Managing customer expectations when delivery depends on a third party."
little bit of rewording might make it fit for here yeah
RhysW was faster lol
as expected from RhysW-kohai
;) im used to title editing
making things google finde-able is what i like doing
like SEO stuff?
sort of, i try to pick simple terms that other people are more likely to use when searching that problem
i try to make it easier for people to find, rather than search engines, if that makes sense
10:05 AM
yeah got it
Q: How to manage customer expectations when delivery depends on an opaque third party (Apple App Store)?

Dan RobinsonA client has requested a fast turnaround on a public iOS app. We know we can manage it with the resources available, but distributing via the Apple App Store is an unknown to us. I understand that Apple can be fairly opaque regarding their review times and their rejection policies, and my conce...

^^^ like that?
hah a merge of the two suggestions, i like it
I kept app store in there for the case if migration fails. If succeeds, feel free to clean it up further
looks good to me
10:09 AM
all right, flagged for mod attention referring to our discussion above
I might be able to answer that
I did interact a bit with the app store, never had a review process to take less than 1 week
also had a rejection after 1.5+ weeks
in contrast, Google approves p. much anything in less than 2 hours lol
well its not so much about the app store as it is managing the customer
of course, I just wanted to highlight the variability of the review process
music drop!
you guys like trance, yes?
10:35 AM
A: When emailing my boss, is it OK to use his first name in the greeting?

WeNeedAnswersWhen in doubt, do nowt. Just flow straight into the email. usually a greeting is required, just say "Hi" and end with "regards". Depends on your relationship. If you have never talked to the person then you should always go formal and say Mr or Mrs/Miss/Ms.. so that would be Hi Mrs Benjamin. if...

juding by the answerers comments here everyone is out to get him
Well that escalated quickly o_O
So tempted to put something on there about the use of a exclamation mark!
My enthusiasm is apparently taken only as shouting. I was under the impression that shouting was WHEN YOU WRITE ALL IN CAPS. Perhaps im not as internet savvy as i thought :P
I'm just flagging and moving on, no point giving him the attention and chance to yell some more.
Soo would it be wrong if I put this?
Just going to point out that the use of an exclamation mark was to convey strong feelings. NOT YELLING!
Not wrong, just not constructive
flagged for user being abusive (mostly towards Dan), now to spend my time helping users who are happy to be helped
Q: Influence boss' decision on what role to assign me to?

Jess StoneMy boss is undecided whether to assign me to: role A: office (managing spreadsheets, image editing, vectorial drawing, etc.) role B: warehouse stock assistant How can I convince him or influence his decision? I feel more inclined for the office role, rather than the stock one. I have worke...

This is quite broad, does anyone see a way we could narrow this down a bit?
I dont think we have a question about talking with your boss to decide your role once you are already hired (which i think the op is)
How can I convey my strengths to my boss so he can see what I would be best suited doing?
10:46 AM
yeah, asking op some questions to clarify if they already work there, what they already do, ect
"Vote me up or I'll probably be banned from this sucky group. :D" (facepalm)
Did we ever come to a consensus on what to do with resource requests? I notice we dont have a close reason for them @jmort / @jmac
Q: How can I evaluate the work situation of my field between countries and cities?

NenotlepI'm interested in working in a different country. How can I evaluate the work situation and competition I would face in the job market between different countries and cities? The variables here that I can think of immediately: How many positions are open in my field How open are the locals to ...

Can we maybe get it on hold until a consensus is reached? Otherwise its going to degenerate in quality pretty fast
11:05 AM
Dont have enough rep to vote for it sorry :(
we are all facing the harsh drop in permissions
except a few high rep members who can still do everything they want :P
we'll soon see a sharp increase in permissions :)
@RhysW original version of the "answer" was literally screaming get on me, it was really bad. It improved only with recent edit
@gnat Improved with recent edit? perhaps a little, there is more content, although there is also now more content insulting various members
Its a shame that some people take any hint at improvement needed as a personal attack on themselves
11:21 AM
@RhysW No disagreement here, it's still pretty much meh, and answerer comments are bad. It is only an improvement compared to original version (I'd probably skip voting it down in current form, but still, would not even think of voting up)
Well in answer to those people who said 'how will you deal with people being condescending and rude to you when you are a mod' at least i now have a recent example to direct them to. every cloud. silver lining. :P
@gnat I find that funny because the tooltips are 'this is useful' and 'this is not useful', its gotta be one fof those surely :P
(though i know they are mostly not used like that)
@RhysW it takes time to choose between tooltips in posts like that (in comparison, I decided to vote down original version in a matter of seconds). I plan to get back to it a bit later, when I have time, re-read more carefully and pick my button
True, the odd limits on voting with timeframes do mean that has to happen
Remove the condescension, tweak the wording and formatting a little and it becomes an ok answer. Nothing great but still ok
@RhysW gee your analysis make me feel I'll end picking no buttons. :) "Nothing great but still ok" => neither up nor down. Will see if it's so after I re-read
@gnat I edited now its a little better again
Actually, not to toot my own horn, but I quite like it as an answer now...
11:42 AM
@RhysW all right, formatting made its point readable and really sensible. Wordsmithing for "why" announcement didn't hurt either, it started looking organically, not like meta-patch anymore (was pondering myself on how to transform it). Good work :)
Hehe, was edited with @jmac 's teachings in mind, hopefully the answerer agrees that it's 'better' now. I would rather teach how to use the site through example than telling him his answer is bad and he should feel bad. Hopefully i got that across
12:23 PM
^^^ migrated
@gnat Awesome, will give it an upvote to get the ball rolling
Its got some good answers already too
glad we claimed this one :P
thanks @gnat for doing that
@RhysW you're welcome. hope @Chad won't object this time (though one never knows:)
@gnat hehe it seems workplace related. The issue isnt with the app store, its with managing client expectations about a deadline they cant control
gah, you beat me to editing that question!
@RhysW couldn't resist when I saw it's untagged :)
12:33 PM
Hah you can have your title and tag edit, ill throw a content edit on it too
Step 1: Don't quit via email, organize a meeting with your superior if you can
also, new word proposal, 'formal mail' becomes 'formail' :P
1:14 PM
@RhysW hell yeah!
@RhysW voted
1:56 PM
@gnat I did not object to the first one... I was merely suggesting how it could be improved to make it more acceptable to the rest of the community
@Chad I am disappointed. I was hoping you to explode and send some crap to migrate to Programmers in revenge. Where's the fun? :)
@gnat I could I love going off on programmers... kind of disappointed that we havent had any bad migrations to bitch about lately
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