The Water Cooler

@CMW yeah. Previously, taking the day off and working 4x10 hours gave me a day off that I could not have worked for anything, but now, if I do that, I'm basically paying $15/hr (using @RhysW's numbers) to do that in some sense

CMW

not really

you're not losing anything to working 5x8 (i.e. normal schedule)

this is one of those common fallacies, that I never can remember the names for

RhysW

on the 5 x 8 each day is worth 80 to you
on the 4 x 10 each day is worth 100 to you

you still get paid 400 a week either way.

Overtime would still be time and a half, im not sure where you make the loss

enderland

right, it's an opportunity cost

which previously wasn't there

RhysW

unless you mean, you have 1 less day a week on which overtime can be worked

CMW

8:31 PM

it's basically "buy a second coat and receive 30% off on both"

RhysW

therefore on a 4 day week you lose 1/5 th of the 8 hours (presuming youd work an even amount each day to bring you to the minimum 8 hours extra)

Chad

0

Q: Why do companies that only deal with information still have offices?

Why do workers whose performance is only to process information in some way or the other, still have offices, and sometimes in pretty expensive places? Couldn't an IT company be totally virtual? How would the work differ in such setting?

offices

Can we get this closed quickly please

RhysW

so on the 4 day week you lose like 16 dollars a week opportunity cost

CMW

you're getting each for less than you would buying them individually. but you're still paying more than if you bought only one

enderland

oh, yes, I realize the only "cost" is an opportunity cost

I make the same working 5x8 as I do 4x10

RhysW

8:32 PM

yeah but that opportunity is only worth 16 dollars :P

enderland

@RhysW no, it's worth 8x15 (or 10x15)

CMW

so the cost of not taking the opportunity is, say, 150$

enderland

right. which, if I wasn't eligible currently for paid OT wouldn't matter

but I now am

CMW

the cost of taking it is working 10 hours a week more

enderland

@CMW to some extent the "cost" is working extra hours 4 days a week already too - so the only additional cost is working another workday

RhysW

8:33 PM

lets say you work the minimum 8 hours a week, you split it up evenly and work 1.6 hours extra each of the 5 days, you take one of those days off, you lose 1.6 hours * 1.5 worth of pay, so 24 dollars a week

Chad

@CMW Its only lost if you normally work that 10 hours over but now do not because of the new schedule

CMW

two questions I see here

a) is $150 extra a week worth it

or

b) is a raise by $1/h worth it?

RhysW

@CMW each day is worth either 80 or 100 dollars to him, so 'spending' 150 is a net loss either way

CMW

two ways to look at it

enderland

I will always be working 40 hours a week

previously, how I arranged these (and whether that facilitated extra overtime or not) didn't matter

CMW

8:35 PM

so you won't do overtime?

enderland

@CMW I can't decide :P

RhysW

i still say its only 24 dollars though, until i see math that says otherwise :P

CMW

ah, sorry, misunderstood

Chad

@enderland Then there is a savings involved with working 4x10 because there is a cost to working.

enderland

@Chad true

Chad

8:36 PM

There is transportation, clothing, meal costs which are usually higher for working than not

enderland

@Chad the worst part is I'm reading a book which literally told me this, yesterday >.>

RhysW

@Chad lets not forget the cost of stress for working long days

Chad

now if you spend that day off doing something that costs money that you would not do if you were working then it is a cost

@RhysW meh 8 vs 10 Roughly the same for me.

enderland

(this is really interesting for me to consider, btw, I find the "should I choose to work paid OT" question really fascinating when it's an option)

Chad

I actually like scheduled 10 hour days because I have more time to actually work. If I were to try to start a new task right now I couldnt finish it before 5. But if I was working until 6 or 7 I might be able to.

RhysW

8:38 PM

I have an option to work paid OT

as long as i ask before hand i can have paid OT whenever, weekdays, weekends, its all the same

Chad

@RhysW Then 4x10 is even better because even if you only work 8 hours on day 5/6 then you have extra money

enderland

@Chad yeah, I don't mind it so much as well, my biggest constriant is I dislike being at work so late (I've always tried to leave by 6 when working 10s)

RhysW

i already work 9 hour days (1 for lunch) so 4x10 means i work less hours thus less pay

Chad

yeah I would usually work 6:30-5

CMW

@enderland I remember you telling me you're regularly doing 4-6 hours overtime anyway. Right?

enderland

8:39 PM

also, all money I earn extra is basically going straight to savings, so it's not ever going to be "blow money!!!!" - at which point I probably wouldn't consider it

CMW

per week I mean

Chad

@RhysW No you work 8 hour days that take 10 hours (with commute) to do

enderland

@CMW closer to 2 normally? ish? hard to say

@Chad that's part of the problem for me, I have a 40 min door to desk commute

CMW

So that is the money you're actually leaving on the table right now

because you won't get paid for that unless going above 8

Chad

@enderland same here its closer to 45-50 but yeah

enderland

8:41 PM

@CMW that's a good point. I probably average at least 42 hours a week

also, I can actually do less than 48 during the week and work the difference from home if I like (uber awesome)

so I could do 5x9 and 3 on saturday morning or something from home

which is perhaps what I would do?

Chad

but for Rhys he is gone for work ~50 hours now before OT. a 4x10 has him down to 48hrs

for the same money

enderland

@Chad yeah. I'm torn whether I want to take unpaid lunch breaks

CMW

@enderland OTOH you could use the day of and start working on that idea for a tool that's been going around in your head because of that one issue you're facing at work where there's no good solution for yet

Chad

@enderland If I have a choice not to I dont usually I am required to give 30 min at least even if I work through it

CMW

and maybe that turns out more lucrative in the end :)

Chad

8:45 PM

I can work at my desk and eat a sandwich

CMW

(disclaimer: I'm a startup guy)

*day off

enderland

@CMW I've rather thought about that, not a huge amount of interest in that realistically

Chad

@CMW If i was 20 years younger I would be... unfortunately the internet boom happened at the end of my peak

enderland

plus I think it would take a while to get up to the "value" I can add financially simply by working overtime hours

CMW

@Chad so... you're 35? :D

Chad

8:46 PM

Old age has made me risk adverse

40

enderland

be different if I hated my job, I guess

CMW

haha

ok

@enderland I just live playing advocatus diaboli

Chad

Not to mention I make too money now with low risk to take a huge cut for high risk

@enderland That is important too

enderland

I'm in a position I could quit my job and have no income for well over a year and not blow out financially, too, so it's not even a "use this time for interviewing/applying for jobs" thing, so I can "afford" to like my job

Chad

@enderland In theory I could... but if I am not working I Find my self spending far more money than when I work for it and remind myself of that regularly

enderland

8:50 PM

@Chad yeah, I guess there's that, idk. my cost of living is really low right now, but either way, it's more of a tantalizing fantasy than a likely option :)

Chad

@enderland Its nice knowing you could

enderland

right, FU money is meaningful to job satisfaction

CMW

@enderland with that amount in savings I'd be tempted to move to somewhere in the caribbean, where cost of living is waaaay below what it's here, or in the US. And just, you know, stay there.

live off the interest :)

grow coffee, make rum

consume both

enderland

@CMW I don't have enough for that, yet, but let's just say I'm not planning on a "normal" working career ;)

Monica Cellio

Excellent -- all three current mods answered my questions about the job. I was hoping to get at least 2. Thanks mods!

3

enderland

8:52 PM

this article I'll just drop here

Chad

@CMW I am working on setting myself up in a self subsisting homestead... so I Can do that :p

well not in the carribean... I would be bored of my goard in a week.

Monica Cellio

(Maybe I should have said that in the other room, but I want to publicly thank them and more people will see it here. Discussion should go there.)

Chad

weel in 3 :p

CMW

@MonicaCellio Thanks for pointing that out. I'll be sure to read it closely.

Chad

@MonicaCellio ?

CMW

8:54 PM

@Chad Not a surfing person?

enderland

there's something nice about being close to family in your house you don't have to officially work for to keep

(not that I've thought about this or anything....)

Monica Cellio

@Chad well, it's election-related and we have a room for that, but as I said, I wanted to thank our mods for their work on that question here.

Chad

@CMW No but I like diving... but I was raised on a farm, and from a long line of farmers... I cant take that much time not working.

I used to have a dream of having a boat down there... but then I got a boat and the dream is far more fun than the reality :Lp

enderland

@Chad my dream involves having a place like you want close to a lake

midwest USA ftw!

Chad

@MonicaCellio Ohh yes sorry I did not draw the connection

CMW

8:56 PM

@Chad That's actually the one factor that occasionally gets me worried when thinking about those things.

It might just not turn out to be what I make it out to be

Chad

@enderland Id love to move to Texas... but family keeps us here

enderland

@Chad yeah, cheap housing/land and year round outdoorsy stuff!

CMW

And smokers in every garden

Chad

@enderland Yeah Was ready to pull the trigger on 400 acres outside of austin (about 40 minute drive and just over an hour to Houstan) that had a small canyon, and lots of great badlands to fourwheel on and hunt.

But decided to just stay here and do it near family.

Im hoping to be able to buy about 20 acres here for what that 400 was going to cost

enderland

@Chad the desire to do that sort of lifestyle ASAP also factors into "work OT or not" :P

CMW

9:02 PM

@enderland If that desire is considerable, I'd say, go for it by all means

Chad

@enderland I have plenty of OT work to do at home :p

enderland

@Chad I still live in an apartment with a few other folks. WIN

Chad

@enderland I enjoy my work at home... sometime more than my work here.

though I need the work here for brain activity. I am hoping to find at least a part time gig telecommuting when I am ready to stop this full time gig

@CMW smokers?

Shog9

mmm... home-made smoked salmon

Chad

@Shog9 I have friends in wisconsin that make me some every fall

Shog9

9:14 PM

is jealous

gnat

@Chad quite likely so. As IT companies, their approach likely eventually bumped into the trouble described in Developeronomics article. If they started loosing at job market because of their attitude, they had to adapt

> Rather than... negotiate with management, the talented developer will simply exit a situation he/she does not like, and use guild-like resources to move to a better situation...

CMW

@Chad Those things texans make spare ribs in

leaving them there for 18 hours or so

I thought they were called smokers

for bbq

Chad

@CMW OK yeah

They are usually in the kitchen or on the porch

So i failed to draw the connection...

CMW

@Chad Hehe, ok. Here in Germany, that whole porch/yard/lawn/terrace area would be called either garden or 'behind the house' (quite literally)

Chad

@CMW gotcha

0

Q: Will I get in trouble for this?

This guy at work who is a member and i have been crushing on him for months, it's his personality i like. I have no contact with this guy or his friends. He only comes in every 4/5 weeks or so to help his Dad. Anyway, other than work i started developing feelings for a guy in my class and i decid...

work-environment

This guy must be totally Totes Magotes

enderland

9:28 PM

@Chad that's EXACTLY what I want to do

one of the reasons I want to be more on the development side than engineering, more likely to be able to do that sort of thing ;)

Chad

@enderland that or if I win the lottery ill take a good chunk and start a video game company. Something where I can hire people to do all the stuff I dont like doing but handle the design and archetecture stuff :p

RhysW

@Chad hey thats my plan!

not even kidding

literally paused the game dev stuff im currently doing to post that :P

Chad

@RhysW your plan is to win the lottery so you can open a video game company?

RhysW

Its what i would do if i had the money yeah

enderland

haha. I don't have the time in my free time to do another job... :) or rather, I do, but I prioritize it differently

Chad

9:33 PM

@enderland Well my other job is my homestead farm... but if i didnt have my day job then i would have time to run the game dev

enderland

@Chad yeah, I know, I mean my personal life is prioritized in ways which are not "work" related (either farm or game dev)

Chad

@enderland Im already married... so

no need for that crap anymore :p

enderland

hahahah, being in a relationship but not married just complicates life eh? :)

RhysW

either of you two heard of dwarf fortress?

CMW

That's an odd segway @RhysW

RhysW

9:38 PM

its related!

CMW

i assumed as much!

enderland

jewelpie.com/easy-way-to-peel-mandarin-oranges

holyshit this is amazing

RhysW

its basically a guys life project, he started it, and continues to work on it for the forseeable future, thats basically my goal, have a personal project that i can just keep going with

@enderland :O thats pure genius

CMW

@RhysW Or you could build an addicting game where a bird is supposed to fly in between pipes. And get so stressed out by people's reactions that you quit it altogether :)

enderland

@RhysW it totally works, too, I just did this

WIN

Chad

9:43 PM

@RhysW Yes I have... though I have not gotten into it thats only because I never think of it when I am in a position to

RhysW

@Chad i like reading the stories more than playing it tbh

Chad

@RhysW That is my type of game.

I want to create a game that kind of blends street fighter and mine craft and WOW... but I dont have 98% of the skills to do the unreal engine stuff though I have the logic engine about half done for 3 or 4 years

Chad

10:01 PM

night all

CMW

night chad

RhysW

@Chad sounds interesting, cya later

enderland

@Chad wat? it's like 5:00pm

or you mean you're leaving work, haha

Chad

@enderland Well i was going to before the convo in elections :p

OK now im actually goign to leave work :p

enderland

haha I know how you feel, was planning on leaving 15 min ago haha

gnat

11:08 PM

-2

A: 2014 Moderator Election Q&A - Question Collection

How do you plan to moderate hot questions? How do you plan to account to the fact that compared to, say, Stack Overflow, our site community has much less power to moderate these questions / answers and that we don't have a special, unique "protection" ensuring that there ain't too much question...

^^^ -3/+1, did I do anything wrong?

starts feeling like at another election question collection, but there, it was understandable at least...

Is this really something that matters on SO? — ben is uǝq backwards Feb 10 at 20:26

jmac

11:39 PM

@gnat I don't think I was one of the downvoters, but I'm pretty sure it's because while we all acknowledge hot questions as a problem, we want to ask the mods about moderating the issues that hot questions bring, rather than the hot questions themselves specifically.

enderland

11:56 PM

@jmac I appreciate your suggestion but I'm about 99.999% sure I will not run for moderator here

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