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12:08 AM
@Shog9 Gentleman and a scholar.
12:54 AM
@RhysW I've nominated myself as per your request. After we see all the nominees, I'll decide whether or not I want to still be in it (if there are other candidates I deem better than myself, I will likely let them take the lead)
1:32 AM
@enderland ,What difference it makes? To answer your question those are "Work goals"
2 hours later…
3:21 AM
in Workplace 2014 Election, 10 hours ago, by Shog9
@enderland voting to delete individual answers is a sucker's game. You delete the question and all the answers go with it for free!
This is a really great point.... if the amount of energy being put into a thread is greater than the value of the thread, perhaps it's time to take a different action...
3:46 AM
@jmort253 for weak questions with no good answers, that makes sense. If the question is well-asked but just happens to have attracted crap (as happens), or if there's a good answer there, I prefer to do the extra work to keep the good parts.
4:06 AM
@MonicaCellio I can say that there have been a few times I've fixed or removed answers, and then after the 3rd or 4th one I scroll up to the top and find out I've been suckered...
Not all the time, of course.
And I'm sure there were some times I was suckered and never realized it.
One thing Shog's comment does highlight is to not forget to check the question first. :)
4:23 AM
@Shog, on the post notice testing hypothesis, I have been a bit under the weather as of late but tossed together my testing request here
@jmort253 The issue is that questions can often be saved far more easily than answers can, but after collecting a few bad answers, it's tougher to save the question. I would advocate we aggressively close questions and then get around to editing them, but when our community moderation is overburdened we get the closing part, but don't bother to go back an edit.
@jmac Thinking about Shog's comment, it reminds me of the saying "walking over dollars to pick up pennies"
Case in point: this question is posed as, "Should I...?" but is definitely able to be salvaged with an edit. It already has 2 answers in an hour. If it continues to pick up bad answers, it probably merits being culled, but only because it wasn't fixed early.
The general premise that you might save more of something by focusing on something else may very well be relevant to our situation.
@jmac One thing I know, since graduation, I've spent very little time looking at questions.
Too many flagged answers...
@jmort253 Ditto. There is too much volume backing up, and it's killing my ability to browse the front page (or rather, tossing it behind on the priority list)
So maybe the next step in the experiment is to recognize that maybe we're spending too much time on answers and not enough on questions...
4:37 AM
@jmort253 I think the issue is less that we're spending too much time on answers vs. questions, and more that we have a community moderation debt right now, and that debt results in us taking easy action rather than appropriate action
It is much easier to close a question than it is to edit it, so people go through the close queue, clean it out, and we end up with more closed questions, rather than spending the time to figure out how these questions can be improved (and if they can be improved)
4:50 AM
Hey user, and welcome back to The Workplace. I'm a bit unclear on the question here -- it sounds like these people were unhappy with the management decision to remove them from your project. That, to the best of my understanding, is beyond your control. That makes it very difficult to answer. If there is a specific situation you have trouble with that you can control, an edit to focus on that may get you better answers. Thanks in advance! — jmac 8 secs ago
This is my issue -- Amy's comment has 5 upvotes, but I cast the first close vote. Clearly the question has issues that need to be solved if it is sitting at +1/-1 and there are 5 votes on a comment already...
(it would be nice to create a dashboard of questions with fewer votes on the question than on a single comment on the question -- I think it would identify a lot of pretty poor posts)
2 hours later…
6:30 AM
Hey Beechwood, and welcome to The Workplace! As explained in our help center, "You should only ask practical, answerable questions based on actual problems that you face." If you edit your question to ask something like, "How should I follow up if I haven't heard back on a job offer?", you will get better answers. Thanks in advance! — jmac 20 secs ago
6:54 AM
@jmort253 Perfect example:
Q: Does there exist a management strategy that purposefully employs favoritism?

Walrus the CatFavoritism on our team has reached unreal heights. I'm wondering whether there in fact exists a management strategy where one team member is set on a pedestal, similar to management strategies where the manager sets the team at odds with one another (in order to encourage internal competition.) ...

@jmort253 So will you be running for a mod position jmort?
@RhysW He'd better, or else you'll have to fly to the US to encourage him to.
Great example of a question that could have been saved with an edit, but now has a lot of answers and is at the point where it would probably be quicker and easier to just kill the question instead...
Q: Is it normal to be marked "Fired" regardless of how you leave the company?

user1687580I just recently resigned from a position on what I thought was good terms, but I was told that no matter when or how I quit, whether I give 2 weeks notice or not, I will be considered "Fired" or "Terminated". Is this something common? Will it affect my professional reputation?

2 hours later…
8:36 AM
@jmac I get the feeling I will end up doing lots of flying to lots of countries
8:52 AM
Ooh, thought of a potential blog topic, 'Paying employees more money is, at best, a temporary solution to your high turnover rate'
Q: Android ClassCaseException , MainActivity cannot be cast to ActionBar$TabListener

Bhanu PrakashMainActivity.java package com.gatescode.activity; import android.support.v7.app.ActionBar.Tab; import android.support.v7.app.ActionBarActivity; import android.support.v7.app.ActionBar; import android.support.v4.app.Fragment; import android.support.v4.app.FragmentActivity; import android.suppor...

9:30 AM
@CMW Stack Overflow and a couple of other sites have automatic question bans. This is probably someone trying to evade such a ban by posting on another site, and hoping the question will find its way to Stack Overflow via migration. Which, can't happen, the system automatically rejects migrations for banned accounts.
This question appears to be off-topic because it is about code, not a workplace issue; and it doesn't deserve to be migrated because it doesn't include any attempt to solve the issue. — Jim G. 9 mins ago
Q: 2014 Moderator Election Q&A - Question Collection

Grace NoteIn connection with the moderator elections, we will be holding a Q&A with the candidates. This will be an opportunity for members of the community to pose questions to the candidates on the topic of moderation. Participation is completely voluntary. Here's how it'll work: During the nominati...

^^^ @Rachel: Do you have anything to contribute here? I feel like you might have some good questions, given your history/experience with NPR.
9:47 AM
@YannisRizos Ah, that's good. I wasn't aware the migration system paid attention to that
@YannisRizos smart migration pats on head
In my nomination post I probably should have mentioned my fondness for
( •_•)>⌐■-■
I had to cut my nomination speech down :/
10:02 AM
too few characters, I know the problem
I used them all up
(so typos are intentional to squeeze everything in)
I blame yannis, apparently its his fault there is a limit
Good to know
Shakes fist @YannisRizos
/me wonders if /me works in here
/me apparently not
10:13 AM
I consider that a core feature of every chat. Note to self: make feature request.
10:32 AM
@jmac this drives me NUTS about workplace. closing unclear questions ASAP is really important for this reason, sometimes even really bad questions initially have really good core questions but if they pick up answers before they get closed then it's problematic
close early, close often!
people need to vote more too, if everyone downvotes bad answers then flagging is lots less meaningful (who cares if an answer is flagged if it receives lots of downvotes)
10:49 AM
@RhysW The canonical tl;dr nomination: stackoverflow.com/election/2#post-8042214
11:17 AM
@YannisRizos Thanks for the limit!
1 hour later…
12:32 PM
@gnat, regarding this chat message of yours, I am not going to run for moderator here for a variety of reasons
1:06 PM
@enderland ah, all right then. As long as you have reasons to abstain, I am fine with this decision. Hope you'll re-consider this for next year elections :)
@jmort253 yeah, that happens -- especially when an answer is what comes up in a review queue. I'm just saying (and I think you agree) that jumping to "must be a bad question; nuke it" (as was suggested) isn't a good idea either. That sort of decision requires actually reviewing the question and making a decision.
@gnat I have two unique and very independent reasons, both of which are meaningful and important to me
that's totally understandable
@jmac another factor to consider in the "kill it or fix it (and nuke a bunch of answers)" decision is the people involved. If the owner of the question is an engaged user we should try harder to fix it; nobody likes having his contributions removed, especially if they could have been fixed. On the other hand, for drive-bys of dubious merit it's less worthwhile to invest the effort; if somebody from the community later asks the question better then great, but no loss otherwise.
And, of course, if there are any good answers that should factor in.
@YannisRizos yeah, seems likely. A couple weeks ago we had somebody posting SQL questions on Writers. What? Killed that.
1:42 PM
anyone around?
I'm trying to think of a good tag for situations involving past employees. Any ideas?
how does [former-employees] sound?
An alumnus (masculine, plural alumni) or alumna (feminine, plural alumnae) is a former student or pupil of a school, college, or university. Commonly, but not always, the word refers to a graduate of the educational institute in question. An alumnus can also be a former member, employee, contributor, or inmate, as well as a former student. If a group includes both sexes, even if there is only one male, the male plural form alumni is used. Etymology The Latin noun alumnus means "foster son, pupil" and is derived from the verb alere "to nourish". Usage An alumnus or alumna is a former s...
^^ alumni
Aluminium (or aluminum; see spelling differences) is a chemical element in the boron group with symbol Al and atomic number 13. It is a silvery white, soft, ductile metal. Aluminium is the third most abundant element (after oxygen and silicon), and the most abundant metal, in the Earth's crust. It makes up about 8% by weight of the Earth's solid surface. Aluminium metal is so chemically reactive that native specimens are rare and limited to extreme reducing environments. Instead, it is found combined in over 270 different minerals. The chief ore of aluminium is bauxite. Alu...
aluminium ^^
and, well, it makes sense to create and immediately synonymise it with former_employees - because, well, people will try to use it for that purpose
(sorry, one of those days)
@CMW no need to sorry, wikipedia tried to bring me to aluminium when I entered alumni into search box :)
1:55 PM
@gnat went with [former-employees]. I've never heard alumnus in a professional setting, only in an academic one.
What do you guys think of this one? Warrant a reopen?
Q: What job titles should I be searching for if I want to do development without design?

NectarSoftI am recently returning to system development after more than a decade in other things. I live in Peru but would like to find work with a company in the UK that allows developers to work remotely. Can anyone give me some advice on job searching? I have a general description of the type of job o...

@gnat trollpedia!
@YannisRizos escapees
@YannisRizos linkedin has official feature "Find Alumni", and three of the groups I have in profile there have word alumni in their names
@YannisRizos From two former companies I'm in respective XY-Alumni groups on facebook. It's more of an ironic use, though, showing you survived the time there
@YannisRizos my (now-former :-) ) company has an "alumni" page on its wiki, FWIW.
2:00 PM
A: Why tailor CV and cover letter to a specific company when generic template with few enhancements is less risk?

Shantnu TiwariI can sympathise with your situation. A lot of advice on resumes is written for experienced programmers looking for a better job. In that case, you really need to target your resume, as senior engineers earn a lot, and companies are very picky about who they hire. So while targeting your resume ...

this answer seems like, "because I didn't tailor my resume and got underpaid in my first job, it seems to have worked, so you should do the same thing"
@enderland Agreed thats why I was helping in comments.
@gnat Ah, I guess alumni could work then. Apparently I don't have the rep to propose it as a synonym.
@YannisRizos flag for moderator, or open a request at meta (you can use my requests at Programmers meta as example :)
The sad truth of the matter is, it is a probability game <-- I love this answer because it means people like me who don't treat it as a probability game have a much higher chance of success. My first interview for full-time work out of college involved a tailored cover letter and tailored resume, which let me have a phenomenal on-site interview because all I had to do was walk down my resume to talk about exactly why I would make a great candidate. — enderland 10 secs ago
@gnat Some time ago I promised myself to never use Meta ProgSE as an example for anything, ever.
2:06 PM
@jmort253 I think that shog was speaking with a bit of tongue and cheek there.
@YannisRizos oh that makes sense. Their evil mods do too much damage there!
@jmort253 Welcome back :)
I do notice when I look at the nominations page there is still something signifigant missing...
@CMW Only if it is said using the British pronunciation
@Chad yes, someone we all would be happy to see there, someone who has proven to do great service to the site, is mysteriously missing there. I also noticed that
@gnat I was not talking about me... :P
But I agree
@Chad I figured that (and, you might recall I wouldn't want site to loose great flagger), I noticed whom you addressed your message
2:13 PM
@Chad Cough JMort Cough
@Chad What's the british pronounciation?
American - A-Lou-Min-Um
I like the british version better because it sounds funny
I like the british better because it sounds more like the german version pronounced in an english way and seems closer to how it's written
I always thought Aluminum was a sort of american in-joke, like nucular
2:19 PM
Plus the British way is the correct way ;)
@RhysW You just lost my vote!
Got mine, though :)
(sympathy vote because it's one of the few things, british are right about)
but chad i also own rabbits, so i get the vote back right? :D
Ohh I forgot bunnies outweigh misplaced national loyalty.
Fun fact: Berlin has an enormous bunny population
2:23 PM
outweigh, especially your rabbits!
You were saying you had those giant ones right?
because some got trapped between the two walls that made up the Berlin Wall, and procreated like, well, rabbits. Then David Haselhoff tore down the walls and freed them
Oh no, it was chad had normal rabbits, but wanted me to sneak some of the giant type rabbits to him
@RhysW You should add a picture of your rabbits on your nomination.
with or without a waffle on its head?
Ok, two pictures it is.
2:33 PM
add banana for scale
better yet, remove all that boring text and only have the rabbit pictures.
@CMW Ah, a Redditor.
nah, but I know one and learned of the banana scale yesterday
I'm happy the site graduated, but I really miss my delete votes...
2:36 PM
@YannisRizos multiple redditors :P
@RhysW I would love to get some continental giants.
thats it thats the name! couldnt remember but remembered they were huge
@Chad Any relation to German Giants? They're big around here.
Evidently I like european rabbits... I raise English and French lops and Netherland Dwarfs
god, okay, that one was aweful puts five bucks into the bad-pun-box
2:38 PM
@CMW yes their english cousins
@CMW There are not to many of them in the US
@Chad cool. They're also about the only race I know by name. There was a girl once who had one.
@CMW not even close to on the scale
@enderland so, banana?
@CMW squirrel
2:43 PM
I loved that movie
2:57 PM
me too though it was sad
I'm a sucker for sappy crap like that though
(as long as it's done well)
@CMW Well if you ever decide to visit Chicago let me know and you can import a trio of German Giants for me :
@enderland me too
it's a good trait for relationships, I guess, lol
@Chad Will do
One day I'm going to take 6 weeks of time off at once and ride a motorcycle across the US
one day.
@CMW I'm going to evangelize you the way I did @RhysW, living well below your means is so important
save a ton of money and things like that are way easier to do
3:02 PM
no need. I'm doing that already :) It's more a question of convincing my boss to give me 6 weeks off at a time
it's amazing what having a solid financial situation can do to life
amen to that
@CMW I would join you for that :)
3:41 PM
@enderland you did indeed
@enderland I live at the edge of bankruptcy with the anticipation of hyper inflation taking care of all my debt for me :p
4:00 PM
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values (ZAMM), first published in 1974, is a work of philosophical fiction, the first of Robert M. Pirsig's texts in which he explores his Metaphysics of Quality. The book sold 5 million copies worldwide. It was originally rejected by 121 publishers, more than any other bestselling book, according to the Guinness Book of Records. The title is an apparent play on the title of the book Zen in the Art of Archery by Eugen Herrigel. In its introduction, Pirsig explains that, despite its title, "it should in no way be associated with t...
^^^ Pirsig way?
time to protect this question from hot list lemmings, two not an answers in 5 minutes are sure sign of damage:
Q: What are the consequences of listing fake work experience on a resume?

FireflightA friend of mine has been unemployed for close to 8 months, and is coming to the end of his unemployment benefits. After reading about how difficult it is to find jobs after 6 months of unemployment, I recommended adding a part-time job in his field of expertise to his resume. My boss said it was...

this does not even attempt to answer the question asked: "How likely is it to have faked work experience like this found out? If found out, what would the consequences be to my friend's chances of employment?" — gnat 4 mins ago
^^^ don't want to repeat it third time (but won't hesitate if needed)
@gnat but... what is quality
@Chad don't worry the gov will take care of you
@Chad the SO and I were joking last night about becoming subsistence farmers too :-)
> Pirsig explores the meaning and concept of quality, a term he deems to be undefinable. Pirsig's thesis is that to truly experience quality one must both embrace and apply it as best fits the requirements of the situation. According to Pirsig, such an approach would avoid a great deal of frustration and dissatisfaction common to modern life...
@enderland I literally ordered worms to start worm farming last night :p
4:15 PM
> The key for me is not denying the existence of the craving or the short term rush. It’s zooming out and reminding myself, “Dude, the scientists have already figured this out for you. You can buy the Cooper, and get a short term rush, or you can put that same energy and money into doing something that creates far more lasting happiness.”
^^^ not bad
@gnat that blog will change your entire life (hi @RhysW, hopefully :P)
@enderland I guess I had already changed it about the way described there. Without reading it though :)
@gnat yeah. I think most of the folks who are contributing here have similar attitudes towards the financial/material parts of life
@enderland well to be fair I didn't have that attitude a while ago. Falling in love has bent (or, maybe, straightened) my values into that shape
4:27 PM
if you live in America you are conditioned to not have that attitude either
4:37 PM
Q: How do I handle my Senior making fun of my mistakes?

designerNProgrammerMy Senior repeatedly reminds me about silly mistakes I've made and tells me that I am an amateur. He says my coding style is bad and tells me to "hurry up" because I don't fix bugs quickly enough. He often points at me and and makes fun of my silly mistakes. How do I handle this?

this question got so editraped I don't even know if my answer is valid anymore
in the original text there was no evidence of his boss making fun of him
@AlexM. that's one reason not to answer bad questions (among others)
I'll delete my answer
I'll probably come back to answer it three months from now
when it's safe to assume nobody will be editraping it then
There was a comment somewhere in there from the OP that said something along the lines of being made fun of.
"@starsplusplus basically i am quite upset with the my my senior treats me. he always points at me and says something funny about my silly mistakes.:"
says something funny is not making fun of
making fun of is just starplusplus' interpretation of what OP is saying
Q: Which profession uses the most profanity?

DaveDevI've heard of the phrase "curses like a sailor" and as a software developer I know from first-hand experience that the word "f*ck" gets used a lot (especially when reviewing my old, or someone else's, code). Is there any data for which professions use the most profanity? *not sure how to tag t...

is this question actually an ok question but just really not "enjoyable"
4:41 PM
I'd rather starplusplus told OP to edit the question himself
@enderland I think its just hard to locate the true value of the question.
@AlexM. I see what you mean and agree. Having a look through the edit history combined with the comments shows a great change from the original question with to many assumptions.
@AlexM. I'd prefer that to be edited in ASAP on any question which isn't closed
though unclear questions should also be closed ASAP
@AlexM. answering question asked few minutes ago is russian roulette. Fastest gun approach works only at Stack Overflow, and even there it's sort of an art. At edit-happy sites like Workplace (and Programmers), it's really risky
@gnat it's only risky for bad questinos
@enderland to determine if question is good enough as posted, and has good chances to stay as posted, takes time. That is, whether it's bad or good, one better take time before answering
4:50 PM
@enderland I so don't think this question is bad
badly written, yes
but not bad
what AlexM jokingly suggested, "come back to answer it three months from now" actually makes good sense. I've seen people making good rep at Programmers with answers coming late in the game
@gnat generally well written, clear, concise questions don't go through a lot of modification which would ruin an answer though
@enderland that's certainly right, my point is it takes time to figure that question is "well written, clear, concise".
although, well, it doesn't take much time to figure that question spelled like this is at risk of a closure or a major edit: "how to handle bad politics from a senior? I want to ask you how can I handle a senior's leg pulling reviews in office. eg. say my coding style is bad?"
@AlexM. Which is why questions like this should be put on hold quickly before the severe edits like this start
Q: Do you wait for edits before voting to close a question?

Ramy Al ZuhouriLet's say that there is a question asked in a bad manner, in a way that the question is missing. For example the user shows the code and doesn't explain very well which is the problem. Usually someone starts digging in the OP mind posting comments and asking him for details. It may happen that...

4:55 PM
@enderland That is a poll question... and it is not likely to help anyone
@gnat this is even easier now that you can retract CVs
@gnat I do not mind edits that are not severe... but if someone other than the OP is editing the question and the end result contains 90% new content that is not editing that is changing the question
@Chad would it be a good idea to protect new questions from non-OP editing for, say, a few hours?
I gotta head home, going to get back in an hour or so
@AlexM. protecting just prevents new users from posting answers, it does not protect it from experienced users taking liberties with editing
@Chad I know your stand on this and I can relate. But I've seen it too often that changing the bad question apparently works, so I am not adamant here...
@retailcoder I see. In a post that's two hours old, I've seen people doing wild wide changes and commenting to OP suggesting to rollback if they made a mistake. I've often seen this working quite well, and even, surprisingly feeling right. Can't tell if this is a reliably good way though, because I don't use it. When I see suggestions of this kind in edit queue I tend to skip these to let others review — gnat Aug 28 '13 at 15:38
4:58 PM
@Chad no no, a separate protection
@AlexM. I don't, there's often a complete gap between titles and what the question is tagged/asking/etc
like, I had a suggestion for new functionality in mind
not to mention the number of people who can't copyedit their own posts to save their life
@gnat that was not happening here either... I did just that though to get it back to more realistic, though I suspect the OP prefered the version that put him in a more sympathetic light.
@enderland not just america!
This is one of those rare times where the UK sucks just as much ;)
5:04 PM
@Chad I see. Well in this case, a quick closure to allow shaping it more thoroughly and without hurry would probably be more appropriate. When elections are over and we finally get moderators to handle janitorial stuff, I'll probably shoot a few answers to gain rep and get to 3K to be more effective in handling stuff like that :)
@enderland and in this case I think there is a language barrier as well.
@AlexM. There is no current functionality like that
5:38 PM
@AlexM. - BTW the zaxis bug is fixed :)
6:22 PM
Q: How to get over paranoia of being fired

GerardI work in a company that has an easy hire easy fire approach. The rate at which people are fired is over 15% of the workforce each year. The worst part is that an explanation is not given for those that are fired, it is not known how well these people were performing (in general), why they were f...

that workplace sounds like hell
1 hour ago, by Alex M.
like, I had a suggestion for new functionality in mind
@Chad neat!
hello hello
@RhysW sup rhysdawG!
@Chad that's...worrying :P
6:31 PM
@enderland I think I worked there about 7 years ago...
I was given $800 in cash bonuses the week before I Was fired for no real reason
@Chad on the upside, 800 cash and freed from a toxic workplace, and you didnt even have to sleep with anyone there!.....right?
6:51 PM
@RhysW ummm...
They dont just give those bonuses out you know :p
@Chad It's my understanding they are given out in exchange for work though chad :P
7:14 PM
Several Silicon Valley headhunters say they're now hesitant to recruit from two of the tech sector's most successful companies—Oracle (ORCL) and EMC (EMC)—because of their testosterone-driven, take-no-prisoners cultures. Managers who thrive there, they say, are often bad fits anywhere else. One recruiter describes Oracle as "Silicon Valley's version of the Bear Stearns trading desk. You've got a company full of men who would all walk over their mothers to get to the top. And EMC isn't too far behind." Oracle declined to comment. But Jack Mollen, executive vice-president for human resources
@gnat sounds horrible
7:30 PM
Q: How to react on bosses question about reason for sick leave

Rock StrongbowAssume that employee A is on sick leave. In his/her company it is normal to call in and notify about the illness ASAP. However, it is always the case that one has to talk to the boss directly who asks about the reason for the sick leave. By law this is not legal, so A doesn't have to answer the...

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