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Kit
3:00 PM
"How to fail an interview" = "What does this joke mean?" in terms of inviting crap from sightseers who want to join in on the fun.
 
But I will shut up now. These discussions aren't making me happy. Jeff will probably come down on us even harder after this latest MC question.
 
Fair enough, I agree with that last point @Kit.
 
@Kit It's not actually a joke question though, it is a serious question with a joke title to get people interested. IMO that is not what the spirit of the site is about, it's about being able to quickly find authoritative answers to common questions. It's not a popularity contest. That's why I don't like the multicollider!!
 
Kit
@z7sg I understand that. I read the question myself. It was interesting.
 
@Mana P.S. I appreciate your attempt to calm things down. Rage isn't productive.
 
Kit
3:05 PM
And I should say I agree. That's why I don't like Jeff's attitude about the multicollider.
 
@Cerberus I am a firm subscriber to the "no-stress" belief society.
I just try to chill and not take any of this stuff too seriously.
 
When I have finished building Castles.SE, I will be able to take Jeff and all the other mods on from the safety of my mighty stone keep!
 
Mainly because the only reason I hang out on these sites anymore is to chat with the community.
 
Jez
@z7sg :-)
 
@Cerberus This is precisely my point.
@Mana I'm with Cerberus on this.
The worst question can still get the most brilliant answers.
That's why we have downvotes for questions.
And the Reversal badge.
Jeff wants us to use close votes instead of downvotes.
 
3:10 PM
Fair enough, but I was more trying to say that I don't think those questions on Programmers are bad.
 
@jez, massaged into 50x50...
 
Jez
hmm... no arrow
 
@Mana But looking at the titles, it's nothing but eyeroll.
 
Really? Maybe for "fail an interview", but for the hardware question?
 
@Jez Why 50×50 to begin with?
 
Jez
3:12 PM
it's for a website... a kind of progress bar thing
 
@Mana It has "subjective and argumentative" written in such huge letters all over it.
 
Eek! Look at the time.... Must. Sleep.
Good night everyone!
 
Why doesn't my company buy me X? How would you know? How would you even know whether it does or does not?
 
@RegDwight You're making that point because you don't understand that programmers is an SE site where subjective questions are allowed as long as they are constructive.
 
See, you don't even understand that I do understand that.
 
3:14 PM
I am dumb, we've been over this.
 
Haha. I wasn't around, sorry.
 
Also my tone was harsh and I sound like a douche. You're right, sorry.
 
Nah, it's not about tone or you or me or anything.
In fact, I'm not even arguing pro or contra any of those questions.
But that's the thing.
 
fair enough
 
I am just mentally preparing myself for people coming along and saying, hey, that ELU question, that doesn't look right.
 
3:16 PM
Oh, that makes sense.
 
@Mana I have always done so here, even though I didn't agree with lots of things. As long as I could do what I liked for the most part, I couldn't possibly be affected beyond a shrug. Things changed when this site was called shameful and a disgrace (which seemed to indicate that it will not be allowed to continue as it is) and, more importantly, when Kosmonaut was driven away. I cannot shrug that off. His absence affects me. Okay this was really the last thing I say about it today.
 
:(
 
My only point, if I have one at all, is that our question is in a good company there. For better or worse.
 
WOOO ELU is number ONE HOT HOT QUESTION!
 
@brachomonacho Night!
 
3:17 PM
@z7sg Piss hot question.
 
Strong, steaming, a foamy jet of piss.
2
 
@RegDwight That article seems doubtful, considering the present situation.
 
@Cerberus He called the site shameful and a disgrace? That's pretty harsh. I'm with you there!
 
And for the record: I don't think the piss question is the best question we ever had. I just can't help but notice that a) it's not us who promotes it like that and b) it actually wouldn't be there right now if people listened to our suggestions.
 
He did; and he said even worse things, which he edited out when I was in France so I didn't have a change to read it.
 
3:19 PM
There's no reason to shit on the site like that just because of some perceived low quality-ness
 
@RegDwight Exactly!
By the way, Reg, do you happen to remember what those insults were? Or didn't you read them either?
 
I read everything always everywhere at all.
 
Creepy.
 
As I expected.
 
Jul 12 at 21:41, by Kosmonaut
@kos I have amended my comment; my frustration comes from the fact that nearly every time I visit this site, I am embarrassed to be associated with the sort of banal, least-common-denominator questions that appear here. If this site is indeed intended for experts, it needs far stronger moderation.
 
3:22 PM
Such frustration.
 
F'x
@Cerberus that's what France will do for you :)
 
Someone needs to give Jeff a big internet hug.
 
Kit
@Mana And some 'ludes.
 
In fact, forget about the hug.
 
Kit
Right. Got to arrange a meeting before lunch. AFK.
 
3:24 PM
Peace maaaaaan.
 
He's a woman in this room.
 
Wait, did you mean Jeff or Kit?
 
Kit
Oh, and this
12
Q: Is there a word for accidentally stealing something?

Stefan MohrIs there a single English word to describe when someone has appropriated property that doesn't belong to them unintentionally? For example, say I borrow a pen from someone and absentmindedly put it in my pocket after I finish writing. I discover the pen much later. Did I steal it, or is there a...

 
@Mana Kit.
 
@Reg: Okay, that is the amended comment. But do you know what it said before the edit?
 
3:25 PM
I am dumb.
 
Kit
@Kit is on the multicollider and doesn't have boobs or poop in it.
 
If I was Bart Simpson and this was the opening of The Simpsons, that chalkboard would be covered in "I am dumb"s
 
Kit
@RegDwight She's a woman in this room.
It's less confusing that way.
 
@Kit But it has stealing in it.
That's a freaking crime!
 
Kit
Although Mana might have meant "maaaaaan" in the gender neutral sense.
 
user19161
3:27 PM
@mana Lalala!
 
Kit
@RegDwight But it's not boobs or poop, and that's what Jeff says is important.
I guess that means he endorses crime.
Now really AFK.
 
@Kit always.
 
user19161
@Kit It's interesting how boob becomes poop after a reflection about a horizontal.
 
No wonder Jeff finds it offensive.
 
Feb 23 at 15:56, by Kosmonaut
The antonym for bee is pee, btw
You see how Kosmonaut could foresee everything?
 
user19161
3:37 PM
After all, he is 'The Kosmonaut'! english.stackexchange.com/questions/10006/…
 
Haha yes!
Incidentally, do you think it is time we commenced his beatification?
Let someone else be the Devil's advocate.
 
> Turns out @Kosmonaut was remembering the future: Definite article before proper nouns, asked one day later. – RegDwight♦ Mar 3 at 14:54
I don't remember ever writing that, but well, there you have it and it's true.
 
By the, has anyone ever considered the option to vote for a question to have "Expert" status, which would put add it to a special tab (next to "Active" and "Newest")?
That would be an easy way of viewing the best question in a list.
 
Everyone would vote his own questions as "expert" level.
There are lots of proposals on MSO.
 
@RegDwight What!? It is a good thing I will have forgotten this lapse of your omnimemoria in a day or so...
@RegDwight I expected as much... none succeeded in currying favour?
@RegDwight Only 3k+ would be allowed to vote 5 votes or mod's vote required, just as wil closing questions?
And no voting on one's own question.
 
user19161
3:45 PM
The feature I would really like to have here, is for comments to be displayed chronologically. Robusto brought it up but was declined. I think it's silly to display them otherwise, no matter the reason.
 
3k does not mean "expert on the subject matter". 3k only means "expert on how to get to 3k".
2
 
user19161
At least the FAQ now teaches users about comment notifications, which is a feature I suggested.
 
@JasperLoy Ooh please don't bring that up. It was one of the first times we were scoffed at by a certain person. (Check the tags on that question. My doing.)
@RegDwight True. But wouldn't people be responsible? A message like "are you sure this is an advanced question that would be interesting for experts in the field, like linguistics?" would be displayed before confirmation. And something like flag weight could be applied as well.
 
user19161
Reputation does not mean anything about expertise. Many high rep users on SE are clearly not experts in any sense of the word.
 
Hm. Shouldn't and be merged into [tag:status-by-terrible design]?
Haha, they can't. The system won't allow that tag.
 
3:49 PM
I should think the former tag would be redundant. Let's just use the latter for all.
 
@Cerberus But who watches the watchers?
Do you want nohat and JSBangs to approve and dismiss that stuff all day?
 
@RegDwight Isn't this the same (manageable?) problem as with voting to close, etc.?
 
Well, you see how manageable of a problem voting to close is. Q.E.D.
 
This was just a suggestion: it might not work, as you say.
 
Frankly, I do think it's way too complicated and error-prone.
If it wasn't at least one of those things...
 
3:51 PM
@RegDwight No harm is done if an expert question doesn't make it.
 
Look, I'm not quite sure what purpose you have in mind.
So we would have a tab "expert". And then?
 
Then I wouldn't have to read 90% of the questions.
 
Nobody ever looks at those tabs anyhow.
 
Nor would the Mind Controller.
 
user19161
Gmail has a new feature rolled out today. You can sort your messages in various ways. Just hover over inbox and you will see the choices available.
 
3:53 PM
@Cerberus Sorry, that's a bad idea actually. That's splitting up the site.
If the knowledgeable expressly do not want to look at the site, you have worse problems than filtering questions.
And if they do want to stick around, they should keep an eye on it not deteriorating.
Looking away is a terrible idea.
Besides, you as a 10k user have access to best of and worst of lists already.
I am amazed at how few people actually use them at all.
You get all the bestest answers of the past few days delivered straight to you.
 
in War Metal Tyrant, 2 days ago, by Vitaly
I shouldn't have all those new buttons in my interface.
(Aren't you proud of me??)
 
And he no longer has. Aren't you proud of me?
(I will congratulate you later. When you'll have long forgotten what for.)
 
I think my accomplishment is greater. How often have I remembered something AND quoted it?
 
user19161
Considering how few 10k users there are, and how few people use 10k powers as mentioned, I think they should reduce it to 5k.
 
@RegDwight Meanie.
@RegDwight I suppose that is true. I can't wait for Linguistics. And if only part of Writers were to split off as Style...
 
user19161
4:00 PM
In fact I think they should just make 5k the max for privileges associated. I'm too lazy to get any more rep.
 
user19161
@Cerberus You wanna join Linguistics?
 
Well, I was always worried about Linguistics going live and killing ELU. I have no reason to be less worried about that in light of the recent events.
 
user19161
I'm wondering how much overlap there will then be between the two sites...
 
In terms of questions probably zero.
In terms of the core community probably 100%
May 28 at 15:58, by RegDwight
Well, right now out of the top 30 people committed to Linguistics some 25 have the ELU icon next to their name.
 
@JasperLoy Yes! I have been committed for ages...
@RegDwight Absolutely and in all respects.
 
4:04 PM
And now I gotta run.
TTYL.
 
@RegDwight Not zero: some of the top questions...
Bye!
 
user19161
I think the most interesting one is Everything you wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask.
 
That figures...
 
user19161
But I'm too afraid to join that one...
 
@RegDwight Considering the number of EL&U regular users who are still marked as committed to Linguistics but nonetheless deserted this space, I don't think EL&U has a lot to fear.
 
user19161
4:06 PM
@AlainPannetier This statement is ambiguous.
 
Let's rephrase this. Many of the high reps in the first two pages of the committed tab of Linguistics are "ex ELU stars" (so to speak) who don't show up here any more. They will probably not partake in Linguistics either.
 
user19161
Ah, now I understand...
 
@AlainPannetier That much is true...
@AlainPannetier Hmm... could be. I'm not sure. I'd image we'd have none of the problems in Linguistics that we have here. Then again, I doubt whether Linguistics would be viable at all, given its inaccessibility.
Too few users/questions.
Not that I'd mind a site with few of those; but SE probably does.
 
I would like to participate in Linguistics, but I'd like to participate in philosophy too but I don't because it feels inaccessible.
 
user19161
In fact Jeff should not worry too much about quality, which is alright, here. More questions translates to more traffic and more money for him.
 
Jez
4:15 PM
philosophy is closing too many questions. it will wither and die.
but that seems to be Jeff's ... philosophy
 
user19161
Exactly, that is why Jeff should be happy about EL.
 
user19161
You never know what is precious till you lose it.
 
user19161
And that is a great philosophy.
 
@Cerberus, If you really want quality in EL&U there are at least two things to do.
- received downvote should "cost" much more than 2. Look at how 3i was hoarding downvotes with a large smile on his face.
- High rep over answercnt ratio users should have a higher daily rep cap and conversely.
BRB
 
user19161
I was actually playing with the idea of doing away with downvotes altogether. It seems that upvotes are sufficient, since all numbers are relative anyway. But that is just an idea.
 
4:23 PM
Back
For down-votes to scare off brute-force-attack-answerers, you currently need 5 down votes to compensate for one (possibly sock puppet) up-vote. 5 users willing to shed one point to ensure mediocre answers don't get away with it. Not a chance.
 
@z7sg In what way? I am there, but I find that I do not enjoy answering as much there. Perhaps because they tend to be too long.
@AlainPannetier I agree with your first point (though I don't remember how many downvotes he used to get? That was H&B, right?)
@AlainPannetier Second point I find hard to parse.
 
user19161
On TeX SE, there are almost no downvotes. It is kind of discouraged as it chases users away. Also, sometimes we downvote answers which are not really wrong, but just expresses an idea different from what we have. Perhaps it is sufficient to leave a comment to the answer we disagree with...
 
@AlainPannetier I agree in all respects.
 
Jez
@AlainPannetier I disagree. I don't even think downvotes make any logical sense.
 
@JasperLoy I don't down-vote unless I think it is really misleading or factually wrong. Or perhaps when it is low quality and has more up-votes than a really good answer.
 
Jez
4:27 PM
Why not say that upvotes are good and no votes is bad?
 
Because many questions receive few votes for other reasons, such as been too expert.
 
Jez
downvotes doesn't address that
 
@Cerberus, A good answerer reaches his cap in 2 or 3 answers. He contributes only 2 or three. A bad answerer need to flood the forum with 10 answers daily to reach the same cap.
Considering that good answerers are a minority anyway...
Easy to guess the picture.
 
@AlainPannetier Good point. I have always wondered whether this cap was a good idea.
 
user19161
Has anyone tried out Shapado? If so how does it compare to SE? And are there any more besides these two networks?
 
4:34 PM
@Cerberus I find philosophy really interesting but I don't have any formal education in it. Every time I have tried to read something I feel like there are gaps preventing me from understanding. I think I need some kind of syllabus to work from otherwise it will be futile. If I had that then I might need to ask some questions and then it could be a useful resource.
@Jez They do, they say "this question has serious problems but could be fixed". I think downvoting without there being a comment to explain how it could be improved isn't helpful however. Lots of times now I have downvoted something, got it fixed and remove the downvote. You want to prevent that?
 
@JasperLoy I really have no idea. Would be interesting to know!
@z7sg Part of that is the way philosophers tend to write: horribly.
I have followed a few years worth of philosophy courses, and I find the great majority of philosophers unnecessarily unclear. They invent way too many new, non-intuitive terms, etc.
 
@Cerberus I can read some of the existentialist writers/philosophers. I like that. Tried Heidegger, Kant, Nietzsche. Lots of wtf? going on. Then someone refers back to one of them and I just think grrr, this is basically pointless.
 
I finally snapped at Fumble. Can someone tell me if I am in the wrong here?
4
A: What is meant by "don't piss on my boots and tell me it's raining"?

MrHenTo be clear on the meaning of piss, here, it invokes another idiom: pissing on [someone]. It doesn't literally mean urination; it means taking advantage or abusing someone. There are a few major uses of the phrase Don't piss on my boots and tell me it's raining. The basic idea is that someone ju...

 
user19161
For those interested, you can do the comparison with SE at shapado.com. Clicking on the Debian subsite will take you to ask.debian.net for example.
 
@z7sg I am a great admirer of Kant's, and I have read parts of his Kritik der reinen Vernunft; but he is a bad writer.
 
4:42 PM
@Jez Because that leaves me no way to disagree with other users (who have perhaps upvoted something I think is utter crap).
 
I just don't understand where these comments come from...
 
Heidegger's ideas do not appeal to me at all, so I tried to skip him wherever I could. No idea about his style.
 
@Martha Is Jez still complaining about downvotes?
 
@MrHen Yes.
 
@Martha I wouldn't bother trying to argue about it. We tried it once and Jez didn't really get it.
 
4:44 PM
@MrHen There's a typo: want instead of what in the first line.
 
Nietsche can be a bit tough to get into; but after a chapter or so, when you get the hang of his non-formal style (he doesn't present a real argumentation), I found him a good read.
 
(Admittedly, we could be wrong...)
@Martha Where?
Ah, I see it now
I cannot edit anymore.
Heh, I deleted and reposted the comment.
 
user19161
@MrHen Why not?
 
@JasperLoy It was a comment over a few minutes old
 
user19161
Oh, don't bother too much about comments. Only questions and answers are first-class citizens.
 
4:48 PM
@Martha: I would appreciate your view on this though
 
@MrHen I cannot comment on your discussion because I am not familiar enough with the repression. But I wouldn't take FF's comment personally: his "I don't buy" just means "I disagree".
 
user19161
Right, don't worry about downvotes. It just means disagreement, no more, no less.
 
@Cerberus Yeah, but his disagrees never make much sense. This isn't the first oddball comment I've seen of his.
 
I don't know.
 
@Cerberus I tried to read Also Sprach Zarathustra in German, which is not my first language. Perhaps that was a mistake! I read Good and Evil in English and that was really interesting and accessible actually come to think of it...
 
4:52 PM
@z7sg See? I read Genealogie der Moral in German, and I liked it.
 
I don't really care about the downvote, btw. I just get annoyed by someone complaining about nothing important. I don't get it.
But meh. I'll move on mentally.
 
It may be just that some of his works are better written.
@MrHen Always wise! (At least he didn't drive Kosmonaut from the site...*sigh*)
 
Yes but German is practically the same as Dutch!
 
Heh, not quite!
My German is rather bad.
I need to look up loads of common words.
If my Dutch were a giant, my English would be a moderately tall man, and my German a microscopic midget.
If such exist.
 
@Cerberus Yeah. I just... don't have a lot of patience for this kind of junk today.
 
4:55 PM
Yeah I don't understand Dutch at all despite knowing English and German. It should be somehwere in between.
 
@z7sg It is, and admittedly slightly closer to German (though not a great deal closer).
@MrHen I know the feeling... go kill some enemies!
 
@Cerberus Heh. *Deep breath.* Okay, let's kill stuff.
 
@z7sg A Dutch kid, who will speak proper Dutch and and communicate reasonably well in English, will not be able to read a German novel at all. He will understand nothing of it at all.
He will, however, be able to read English websites with ease.
 
5:16 PM
@Cerberus I've never met someone from Holland who can't converse well in English. It can be a real disadvantage these days not to I guess. I suppose it's not that surprising either, how much higher the standard seems to be on average from the Germanic language natives than the Romance and Slavic natives.
 
I want to be an expert on how to get 3K
 
morning
 
Apr 14 at 8:34, by RegDwight
@JSBangs Swedes are the worst. If you give them the slightest hint that you're not a native speaker of Swedish, they will immediately switch to English, and no amount of money, pleading, or threats will make them switch back. Which makes it next to impossible to learn Swedish while in Sweden. (They can't be bothered translating American TV shows, either. Sometimes they will add Swedish subtitles, if they are in a really generous mood.)
 
@simchona Доброе утро!
 
oh boy
 
5:28 PM
Уж скорее вечер.
 
hi @simchona
 
hi @MattEllen
 
@RegDwight Но чубак толко-что вставал.
"You accept that you will have to queue to take a queue number." is that what Communism is like?
 
Чубак? I was never a big fan of Star Wars, sorry.
 
5:32 PM
Ahhhh Ёлы-палы!
I find b/v so confusing in foreign languages. Them forriners mixes em up!
Why can't I edit my post! WAAA
 
@z7sg No, in Communism there are three queues at any given moment. One is for normal people, another one is a for VIPs/cronies, and a third one for "excuse me, I only have one quick question".
 
I have been censored. :(
 
Oh and for the sake of completeness: "только что встал".
@z7sg Yes, even that poor Belorussian guy on the brink of suicide doesn't use such strong language.
 
Kit
Ta da!
 
Well I may not get the spelling right, or choose the correct aspects or tenses for my verbs but I sure know how to offend somebody!
 
5:40 PM
snicker
 
@Kit OMG every1 seen taht kit has singel handedly killed the sight
 
Kit
@RegDwight giggle
 
@Kit Your prurience shames us all. I am going to quit unless you delete the question.
 
You do realize that 68 of those is Jeff, hitting reload and hoping it will go away?
 
Kit
@RegDwight Hitting reload and getting some more lotion, you mean.
 
5:42 PM
What the hell is drm doing?
 
@z7sg aiming to touch every single post on the site?
 
Kit
Editing every question on the site and dredging up the worst stuff ever.
 
Frivolously.
 
Kit
Probably going for a gold badge.
That's not really frivolous.
 
Cleaning up is a good thing but not all at once!
 
Kit
5:43 PM
It's the easiest one to get in that sense.
 
@Kit I just like the word. You are problem?
 
Kit
@RegDwight I am problem?
 
Well, not everyone can be legend.
 
Kit
I like frivolous too. It's got an F and a V!
 
In Germany, it's not completely uncommon that customers come in and rather than saying "I have a problem/question" they say "I would like to have a problem/question".
 
5:47 PM
I am being frivolous
Do you know why?
 
Also, they say it in German rather than English.
 
THERE IS NOTHING GOING ON!
Sorry for the rant
I'll be quiet
 
I am not so sure about the "nothing" part. I'm closing stuff by the dozens.
 
@drm65 What's going on?
 
Nothing.
Except a question posted 2 minutes ago
 
5:51 PM
Sorry to mention the Germans again, but this is precisely what they call "whining on a high level".
I still remember how we used to have 3 questions in 2 days.
That was rather boring.
 
6
Q: When Will "Present Perfect vs Past Tense" Cases Be Affected By Culture?

ElfiraRegarding actions taken in the past, besides the differences those two tenses have semantically, my teacher shared that it could be a British vs American English case. When talking about past action, British prefers present perfect because they take into account that the effect from their past ...

 
Well, seriously, the last activity by anyone but myself was 49 minutes ago.
 
Why was my flag invalid?
 
I can still see it.
Unless this is your second one and the first one got dismissed.
 
No, I just submitted one
(another was on a diff question)
 
5:54 PM
Right.
My bad.
That's a different question.
 
Kit
@drm65 Really? I could've sworn I commented more recently than that.
 
Well then, it wasn't me.
 
Ok.
 
@z7sg: It's just a combination of having limited time here, and liking very much to answer questions. When there are no questions for three hours, one is driven to other activities.
 
Kit
Hey, how do we check our flagging history?
 
5:55 PM
Your profile'
Under your name
 
Do you disagree with my flag (even if you're not the one who turned it down)? @RegDwight
 
@Kit Click on your flag weight.
 
@Reg Exactly
 
Kit
@RegDwight Oh of course. I should have thought of that.
 
@simchona The title seems subjective/argumentative to me, but the actual question, from a quick glance, is rather different.
And I see that Kosmo has answered it.
So an actual linguist deemed it on-topic enough to bother with an answer.
But I would have to read all this stuff thoroughly to make a more informed decision.
 
5:57 PM
@simchona: I see by your profile that you are an avid user
That's neat
 
Kit
You know, @drm65, if you are really bored, you could think up some good questions, I bet.
 

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