English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:39 AM

@Rob: It isn't Lego.

@Cerberus What isn't Lego? Life?

@Kiam: The ĕ is a short e, which is correct. Your dictionary uses it to distinguish consonant cunjugations from e-conjugations, which have a long e (ē).

@Cerberus I was used to dictionaries that reported when the e was a long e.

Domino et domo = to the master and away from home?

@Cerberus It was the motto of the artillery regiment I was in.

12:42 AM

Arma piedata cedant: piedata is not a word.

Brixia fidelis, now that sounds good!

@Kiam: Then what is it supposed to mean?

@Cerberus I don't remember that motto exactly. It was the one used from the Medical corp.

It should be "walking corps can fail."

In Italian is armi appiedate cedono.

Eh I have no idea what that means.

You mean infantry?

The last sentence is written in the coat of arms of my town.

So I suspected!

@Cerberus Yes, that would be the translation of "arma piedata" or "arma piedanta."

12:47 AM

Oh, it should be peditata.

Then it makes sense.

It's funny: I always translated domino et domo differently. :-)

I have translated that with dominare e domare. :-)

But what is it supposed to mean? Perhaps I am getting it wrong.

Oh!

Yes, that is possible as well.

Domino can come from dominus or from dominare; domo can come from domus or domare.

"I dominate and tame."

If you take both as verbs, that would be correct, though "domino" as a verb is probably postclassical.

@Cerberus — Romani ite domum.

12:51 AM

@Rob: You mean the more stilistically pleasing Romanes eunt domus?

@Cerberus How would you say "I dominate and tame," in Latin? Domino et domo?

@Cerberus — Yes. Write that 100 times before morning.

You would not, as Cicero would say, since dominate and tame mean the same.

It's too late.

Then Google translate didn't translate domare well. :-)

No?

Tame is right, as are pacify, conquer.

12:54 AM

Well, in Italian dominare is different from domare.

OK.

I can say domare i leoni, and dominare la valle.

In Dutch/French, a dompteur tames animals, not people, as you say.

In Latin, people are animals.

The last sentence would mean I am in a position that allows me to see all the valley.

Oh, just as in English.

12:56 AM

Il castello domina la valle.

It might be used like that in Latin as well, I'm not sure (domo).

But surely one can dominare a conversation in Italian as well? And an alliance?

Actually I don't think you could use Latin domo like that.

@Cerberus — But domesticate also means tame ... are you sure dominate is the word you are looking for here?

We say, dominare l'auditorio.

In someway, it's like to say dominare la conversazione.

@Rob: Latin domo can mean to domesticate; actually I'm not really looking for a word, or am I?

@kiamlaluno — Interesting. The Renaissance character in Assassin's Creed is named Ezio Auditore.

1:00 AM

*like saying

@Cerberus — Sorry. I was just thinking that I don't think of dominate and tame as necessarily synonymous.

@Rob: When I mentioned English dominate, it was about a castle dominating a valley, which I think is possible in English?

Yes, you could say it dominated the countryside. But that would not be to tame the countryside.

@Rob: I think I was thinking of a dominatrix when I said that Latin dominare "dominate" could mean the same as domare "tame"...

@Robusto Auditore is a variant of uditore, "who listen."

1:03 AM

The way a dominatrix dominates people is close enough to taming lions...? Or puppies.

Dominate is a very forceful verb. If you dominate someone or something, you pretty much own them or it.

Exactly. That is a possible meaning of Latin domare.

@Cerberus — Yes and no. It's more complicated than that.

You can tame a wild creature without ever dominating it. But if you want to ride a wild horse, you first have to "break" it, meaning break its will, which is a form of domination.

All I'm saying is it is close enough for Latin domare to use one word for both.

Well, I certainly can't argue with you on that score.

1:06 AM

In Latin, one can domare trees, lions, nations, anything...

@Cerberus — Even little schoolboys in Catholic school ... forcing them to construe Latin.

Absolutely!

Oh.

That is a harder task.

Why, what did you think I meant?

N'n.

You won't hear me dissin' no Christians today.

Hahaha ... I slow-rolled ya, Cerberus.

1:09 AM

Huh, what, how?

It seems I was wrong; that is the only motto that is written in Italian.

"That"?

It is not domino et domo, but domino e domo.

Ahh...

I am so glad I can still trust my rusty old instincts.

All mottoes are in Latin, here. I should say they generally are in Latin.

1:11 AM

Right!

@Cerberus — "Slow roll" is a poker term. It means to take too much time to reveal your cards in a showdown at the end of a hand. Sometimes it's done to make the opponent think he's won by revealing some of the cards, then turning over the final winning card. It's a teasing move, and it's considered very uncool. If done deliberately, that is.

If you want to laugh a little, read how a coat of arms is described in Italian.

"Interzato in palo. Nel primo troncato: a) d'azzurro alla muraglia cimata di tre torri, la centrale più alta, muraglia e torri merlate alla ghibellina, il tutto d'argento, aperte, finestrate e murate di nero, terrazzate di verde (Gorizia), b) di rosso alla croce d'oro."

@Rob: Ah, that! Yeah it is childish. But fun, I suppose...

I slow-rolled you by typing half an answer, then waiting for your answer, then edited in an addendum.

Well, it's a way of messing with someone. I wouldn't do it if it was about money.

@Kiam: What's so laughable about that? We describe them in a similarly boring and overly pompous style as well...

1:14 AM

@Cerberus It could be Italian, but few would understand that. :-)

@Rob: Ah, by the time I read your poker explanation I'd already forgotten the context. But don't you think I didn't see what you did there, young man!

@Kiam: What do you mean it could be Italian?

Hehee.

In fact I tried to slow-roll back at you by adding "today" in my line in reply.

@Cerberus I mean it is Italian, but it's not everyday Italian.

Nobody would say interzato.

@Cerberus — Yeah. A rookie move. You hate to see it, but ...

1:16 AM

@Kiam: It is readable enough, though I don't know all the terms; but I wouldn't either in Dutch.

@Rob: It is pleasing enough when done ironically.

Interzato? I read that as something like "divided" or "intersticed"?

That's the only way to do it.

I see you are a veteran!

Sorry I'm a bit drunk and cocky.

I kind of sensed you were drunk.

Haha did you really.

@Cerberus It means there are three parts.

1:21 AM

Well, enough fun. at your expense. Back to the more serious business of trying to amuse myself with electronic toys. Them zombies ain't gonna kill themselves!

TTYL

@Kiam: Yeah I guessed that, though I didn't know whether it described what was divided or what was added in between as a third part.

@Rob: Happy killing!

– *interzare* v. tr. [der. di terzo] (io intèrzo, ecc.), letter. –

1. Inserire o aggiungere come terzo: quei signori, dimani, interzeranno Giovanni Prati tra Dante e l’Alfieri (Carducci); alternare un oggetto ad altri due: i. le mattonelle bianche con le nere. Nel rifl., interzarsi, mettersi, entrare come terzo fra altri due.

2. ant. Accrescere di un terzo, detto, per es., delle imposte.

3. Rafforzare triplicando gli strati, gli elementi protettivi, e sim.; in questo senso, meno com. di rinterzare, e usato solo nel part. pass. (v. interzato).

(For the record, I only consulted this online dictionary after mentioning what I guessed it would mean.)

It's not a word used everydays. :-)

The longer the word, the easier it is generally to guess what it means if you have never seen it before. At least that's how it is for me.

I imagine that it is easier to understand what supercalifragilistichespiralidoso means, then. ;-) [I forgot a "i"]

It means "cool".

1:26 AM

OK, it works.

See?

I must have problems because I start to read it from the end.

Whereas the name of an unknown, single-syllable fish will usually leave me nonplussed.

I can never remember what Dutch fish are either.

Boh.

That is easier for me: eatable, non eatable, eatable...

Mackerel, for example, which is "makreel" in Dutch: no freaking clue what it looks like. Could be tiny or huge, sweet water or salt water, predator or herbivore...

Oh wait I think I do.

That is, I have some idea of its size after all, because it is edible.

1:29 AM

Mackerel... It sounds like maccarena.

lij.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laxerto

I'm afraid there is no page in Italian, but you might be able to understand this.

Oh there is an Italian page as well, it is just not linked to from the English page (how odd).

Which dialect is it?

Liguro

From the Latin name, I would say it's sgombro.

Ding!

Scomber scombrus

Scomber scombrus, conosciuto comunemente come Sgombro, Lacerto o Maccarello, è un pesce azzurro appartenente alla famiglia Scombridae. Distribuzione e habitat Questa specie è diffusa nelle acque costiere del Mediterraneo e del Mar Nero, nonché nel Nord Atlantico, dalle coste marocchine e spagnole fino al Mar di Norvegia. È presente anche nelle acque islandesi, groenlandesi e al largo del Canada. Abita le acque comprese tra 0 e -200 metri di profondità, svernando in acque profonde e tornando verso le coste nelle stagioni più calde. Descrizione Il corpo è allungato e affusolato, con b...

Is Liguro hard to understand for you?

I could sort of read most of it, but it was a simple text.

(AFK)

1:36 AM

This is closer to my dialect.

lmo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scomber_scombrus

That is Western Lombard, and here we talk Eastern Lombard.

lmo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%A8sa

That is strange; it doesn't show the page, here.

"La cità la se tróa endel'àlta Pianüra Padàna a la bóca de la Val Trómpia, ai pè del Mut de la Madaléna e del còl Cidneo. El teretóre — delimitàt a nòrt de le Preàlpi Bresàne, a est de le Preàlpi Gardezàne e a òvest dei teretóre de la Franciacürta — l'è perlopiö de pianüra però töta la còsta meridiunàla del mut de la Madaléna (e pò a la séma) i è dét endèl teretóre del cümü , isé che 'l cümü de Brèsa el se tróa a ìga 'n escursiù altimétrica de 770 méter."

As you can see, there is a little difference with the other dialect. :-)

Actually, also Ligurian is a language.

Martha

5:16 AM

There. That ought to get everyone into a lovely glucose coma first thing in the morning. :D

A: Should available close votes be a function of inflation or rep?

8:07 AM

3

The default # of close votes per day is 12. I just noticed that SU and SF have been at 24 close votes per day per user since ... well, forever. I'm going to go ahead and make 24 close votes per day the new default network-wide to start.

8:34 AM

@JSBangs Swedes are the worst. If you give them the slightest hint that you're not a native speaker of Swedish, they will immediately switch to English, and no amount of money, pleading, or threats will make them switch back. Which makes it next to impossible to learn Swedish while in Sweden. (They can't be bothered translating American TV shows, either. Sometimes they will add Swedish subtitles, if they are in a really generous mood.)

Q: Is there any systematic rule for whether one should use adjective-er/adjective-est or more adj/most adj?

9:30 AM

~~Dupe? No dupe? Thoughts? Read the comments please.~~ [Fixed. See update below.]

0

For example: the number of syllables of the adjective, word origin, etc.

adjectives rules comparative superlative

7

Q: "More clear" vs "Clearer"

Which one of these adjectives is correct? I can see that both of them is being used, I'm just not sure which one is gramatically correct.

usage word-choice adjectives comparative

10:01 AM

@RegDwight — I guess that was a rhetorical question then.

Okay, problem solved. The "clearer" question is now more broad; I deleted my answer that no longer applies as it was specific; 21004 is now closed as a dupe; so is 4081.

@Robusto Don't interrupt me while I'm posting updates. Grrrr

Oh, and guten Morgen.

@RegDwight — Geez, touchy touchy.

Hehe.

Aber immer doch!

Moin-Moin

10:21 AM

Grüß Gott

10:33 AM

Ah ja, den auch.

@RegDwight Wie ist die Lage?

Einwandfrei.

It's been a while since I came here

hmm, it feels like there is something missing in my last sentence...

Sense?

Meaning?

Bezug? Kopfkissen? Thema verfehlt?

I didn't meant my german sentence

10:40 AM

Neither did I.

2 mins ago, by Eldros

It's been a while since I came here

it's the "since I came here" part who bugs me

I don't even know where that Here is.

here = this chat-room

well, it can also applies to EL&U too

Okay. Well, that was my first interpretation as well.

Chat room, that is. Not ELU.

11:02 AM

@RegDwight that's not what bugged me. For a moment, I though as I had to add "last time" to the clause.

Ah. Now I understand.

Yes, that would've helped.

It's been a while since your last visit, yes.

I must say I have difficulties to find question I can answer, as most of the time, those questions are already answered, and often they are answered better as I could have answered them.

Well, we've long established that the best questions are always posted when you're not on the site.

You as in one, not as in Eldros.

Is it some kind of Murphy's Law of EL&U?

Absolutely.

feature-request status-completed linked-accounts

11:11 AM

Oh, btw, I'm glad somethings was done:

18

More and more sites are coming into the SE family. As such, when going into the accounts tab of some users, there is sometimes quite a big number of associated accounts. Until now, they are displayed in a random "arbitrary" order, but it could be useful to be able to sort them by reputation, to s...

Oh yeaaahhhhhsss.

It looks much better now.

Haha, wait a minute, Jeff's answer actually links to my profile? Haha.

Yes, didn't notice?

Just now.

I really like what they have done. It's what I wanted plus more information.

11:55 AM

@RegDwight What happened to you with the votes, happened to me too (yesterday).

You mean someone upvoted you a zillion times in a row?

Well, it was not zillion times, but I got 100 points in few minutes.

Most of the votes were for questions.

It happened on DA, not EL&U.

When I checked who voted me, I noticed SE highlights Rebecca Chernoff because she gave me 48% of her votes (editing approval). :-)

By the way, who keeps to use history?

Well, that one really is about history.

So wait a second, are you saying Rebecca's running amok?)))

Most importantly, why an answer who explain when a meaning was first used in another language is more voted? I thought the question should be about which meaning was first used in English.

While I wait, may I breath?

You can't wait a second without breathing? :P

12:03 PM

I don't know why, but when I use "wait a second," I am always replied back with "OK."

I vow to reply to your "wait a second"s with "NO!" henceforth.

@RegDwight I must consult my lawyer: I am not sure of the implications of me replying to that.

Incidentally, that answers the question.

You know, log could be used against me in tribunal.

s/could/will/

12:06 PM

Does "all you say could be used against you in tribunal" include also what you write?

That's an excellent question for Scalia.

Scalia?

I thought it was Scala: la Scala di Milano.

Antonin Scalia

Antonin Gregory Scalia (; born March 11, 1936) is an American jurist who serves as an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States. As the longest-serving justice on the Court, Scalia is the Senior Associate Justice. Appointed to the Court by President Ronald Reagan in 1986, Scalia has been described as the intellectual anchor of the Court's conservative wing. Scalia was born in Trenton, New Jersey, and attended public grade school and Catholic high school in New York City, where his family had moved. He attended Georgetown University as an undergraduate and obtained his...

With that last name, I would not trust him much.

Scalia, vieni acca...

I bet on Sicilian roots.

"An only child, Antonin Scalia was born in Trenton, New Jersey, on March 11, 1936. His father, Salvatore Eugene Scalia, was an immigrant from Sicily[.]"

12:10 PM

Should I have said "I beet on Sicilian roots"?

Toh! Salvatore!

Salvatore, onne sia?

[Translated: Salvatore, where are you?]

[Translation sponsored by kiam-la-luno. Did you remember your umbrella? Be ready for the cosmical event.]

I thought the pun on bet/beet was enough nice.

Zelig would have understood me.

Anyway, isn't the history of a word its etymology?

(I noticed, others escape when I enter.)

Q: How and in what way did the Danes come to influence English?

Um, if we are talking about the same question, then it isn't about a particular word.

4

I was looking for some insight into the farewell greeting ta on The Urban Dictionary just now, and came across this mostly excellent top-ranked answer (adapted slightly, emphasis mine): A slang word for "thanks." The word is a result of the heavy Danish influence on the English language...

history

Well, the question asks about conceive. I was speaking of questions in general. It seems to me that some questions are tagged history when they should not.

On a language site, it doesn't make sense to have both history and etymology (IMO).

Should we use also derivation then?

Q: Should [history] be a synonym for [etymology]

12:33 PM

Let's see what kind of answers this gets:

0

I just retagged (well, I don't have retag privileges, so queued an edit for voting) a question that had the [history] tag to [etymology] but then I noticed there are 70-odd other such questions. Should that be a tag-synonym then?

discussion tag-synonyms

1

Q: Usage of the "history" tag

What is the purpose of history? Isn't there any other tag that would, even partially, be used instead of history? For example, the history of a word is its etymology; if I am asking for the etymology, I use etymology, not history.

discussion tagging

I didn't notice any edit requests. Maybe they were already accepted/declined.

Good day.

@kiamlaluno I don't remember that one, either.

@Robusto Helloes.

Or Ἑλλάς, if you insist.

That's all Greek to me.

Or Greece.

Das kommt mir spanisch vor!

12:40 PM

Interesting that barbarian comes from Greek meaning "the sound foreigners make when they talk: bar bar bar"

Oh, Volapukajo. That is a pun for Volapuk. :-)

The Greeks were the Germans of their day. Sooooo superior.

Barbar got changed into varvar in Russian.

Same difference.

We also say parlo aramaico antico?

12:42 PM

But the buck stops with the Mars language. Or heavenly script.

It's not just Aramaic.

Q: Zoe or Zoë which is the correct spelling?

0

I have a relation who has named their child "Zoe", on the grounds that "in English we don't use the dots", but they pronounce it like the second version. Of course I don't want to argue that's not the point, but in continental europe where I live, the dots mean that the letter should be pronoun...

pronunciation spelling accent

I'm sure that's a dupe.

Didn't we do the whole dieresis thing to death already?

Many times over. But this one takes precautions not to get killed outright.

"What are the origins of the name and..."

Hmm ... an inoculation of sorts. Hoping to make the question appear innocuous.

@kiamlaluno Do you say the other four shown in the graph?

12:45 PM

@RegDwight — Well, since it's not really an "English" name ...

Q: "Whereäs" as an alternative spelling of "whereas"

12

The Wiktionary shows whereäs as a valid alternative spelling of the word whereas (see here). It gives the following quotations to illustrate the usage: 1 Permanent International Association of Navigation Congresses, Report of Proceedings — Milan (1905) After a dry season, the influen...

etymology spelling diacritic

4

Q: Diacriticals and non-English letters in anglicized loan words: keep 'em, dump 'em, italicize the words, or what?

Take an expression like déjà vu. This is a French term which is frequently seen in English. In fact, it is included in English dictionaries. But it is often seen in English in a variety of forms: déjà vu déjà vu deja vu Now, one would probably not consider using frisson or soupçon...

diacritic diacriticals loan-words

10

Q: Should you always use accent for words from foreign language like "résumé"?

You can see in the about page of Stackoverflow carreer site that the word "resumes" is mentioned. Not "résumés" or "résumés". What should be the common practice here? What about other words like "café"?

usage writing diacritic

BTW @kiamlaluno, I think your first sentence here is misleading:

0

A: Difference beetwen "find" and "search"?

To search something means "to try to find something." Vice versa, to find something doesn't mean to have searched. Find generally means discover, reach, arrive at, or perceive. She also found the time to raise five children. Vitamin B12 is found in dairy products. Water finds its own leve...

It's missing a "for".

"To search for something"?

@RegDwight — Word.

Hm, the comments on that question by VonC actually mention Zoë.

@RegDwight: Btw, finished The Flanders Panel

12:51 PM

Whoa! Do tell!

@RegDwight I say turco, not turco ottomano.

@kiamlaluno Ah, okay. But it doesn't rhyme.)))

Actually, in Italian ottomano would be synonym of turco.

Mamma li turchi!

Makes sense that a word would be a synonym of itself. How inventive of them Italians.

JSBangs

buon' giorno

12:54 PM

Olé!

@RegDwight well, Italiano doesn't rhyme with ottomano.

Well, it was a good read, definitely. Not quite the book I expected after reading The Club Dumas, as I said before, but perhaps Perez-Reverte had matured by then. I thought the denouement over-explanatory and somewhat underwhelming. Also, the epilogue I think was intended to push things onto a higher plane (another reflection of the Game of Chess) but only wound up being confused.

@JSBangs Buongiorno.

Interesting. I don't remember the epilogue. I only remember the final twist involving the Red Queen IIRC.

(It's a single word.)

12:55 PM

Are we to understand that Julia joined a convent and went mad?

Or vice versa?

Wha? I can't even begin to remember that...

The ramifications of the game of chess were compelling all the way through until explained in the end. Then they seemed too pat.

Yeah, I remember thinking something similar. But I liked the general idea very much. It was highly original to me.

From his constant quoting of Nabokov, I expected him to be trying to make some statement about the psychosis of unlimited abstraction, but it's unfortunate that this also draws a comparison to Nabokov's The Defense, in which the subject is explored in much greater depth.

@JSBangs It is interesting: almost all the words with buon are written as single word (buonumore, buongiorno, buonasera, buoncuore, etc).