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8:00 PM
you are fucking right
I know I am
I hope you're joking :p
lol i am
but now i'm not so sure
I am curious as to why though
also... lucky guy, he prolly got good rep from those visits
8:00 PM
@DannyBeckett Not to be too terribly mean about it, but had I spotted that first I might have made a call to the local FSDO where the plane is registered
I suspect it was an MSO question
I'm not a fan of Stupid Pilot Tricks
@voretaq7 he said something along the lines of "expect to receive an FAA citation shortly"
maybe they rule he did nothing wrong and he just gets a friendly talking-to about deicing.
Maybe they rule he violated 91.13 or 91.527 and he gets a 509-ride.
or very close to that. the whole thing's been deleted now
8:02 PM
but what I see in that picture? That's not kosher
I agree
I also commented on the video pointing out why, with info from the answer here
the "personal attack guy" commented with the thing about the FAA afterwards
@DannyBeckett you see that on a lot of youtube videos - like the one where the guy made his takeoff and literally had to tilt his wings to avoid clipping trees (can't remember the title, but it's out there somewhere still I bet)
yeah I bet
YouTube's full of near-miss videos
there's a famous one of a fighter
A: Advantages of operating with CG near forward or aft limits?

egidThe main benefit of operating with an aft CG, as mentioned, is that it can measurably reduce drag. This happens because less tail down force is required to maintain level flight in a given configuration. As a result, you can burn less fuel to maintain the same speed (or increase your speed for no...

it was on UCAP a long time ago - don't remember the episode
8:04 PM
let's see if I can find it..
Near miss between fighter and commercial jet - start at 03:50
To the best of my knowledge, no one reported "icing guy" to the FAA....
Beckett and I both posted on his YouTube video.
@DannyBeckett I used to drive to work every day past the airport where I fly out of - the runway end isn't far from the parkway and there's a line of trees between the two. We had the Navy out here for an airshow and I saw one of their jets skim a few feet above the trees on takeoff and then do a pretty rough pull (to the point where the jet blast knocked loose branches & leaves across the road). That merited me pulling over and calling the tower to find out what the hell was going on.
I said I wouldn't be surprised if the guy got an FAA visit.... but I didn't report him.
@abelenky I'm very tempted to
Well, its increasingly difficult to now, since the footage has been removed.
8:08 PM
@abelenky that's the rub. But hey, maybe the entire internet telling him he's nuts will educate him just as well as having a guy in a bad suit yell at him.
^ this
(Full Disclosure: The guys at our local FSDO wear very nice suits.)
sadly, the entire internet didn't get to tell him he was nuts... just a handful of commenters. But maybe it was enough to make him re-think his actions?
cheers for the personal attack btw @abelenky ... I tried thanking you for that once already, but my answer got deleted
Not a personal attack. I still feel its a legit complaint. Your questions show no knowledge of aviation, and no desire to learn.
8:11 PM
no desire to learn?
!!weather lpl
The group spoke... I'll abide. But we'll see plenty more very poor questions from you and others.
@DannyBeckett LPL/EGGP: Liverpool John Lennon Airport • Observed: 22 mins ago • Wind: 220°/SW @ 9kts • Visibility: 6.21mi/9.99km • Sky (AGL): Few clouds @ 2,800ft; Scattered clouds @ 3,500ft; Broken clouds @ 4,600ft • Temperature: 9.0°C/48°F • Dewpoint: 6.0°C/43°F • Pressure: 29.50" Hg/999mb • Conditions: VFR
point in case ^
I definitely have a desire to learn
It's a legitimate question, but you worded it poorly
@abelenky I don't think "no desire to learn" is fair - everyone comes into a field with a differing level of expertise - @DannyBeckett's questions reflect exposure, but not experience / in-depth knowledge (the latter coming from the former, along with asking questions of people who have been there)
@abelenky I think everyone agreed that it was fair to point out questions you thought were off-topic or simply a bad fit. What was wrong was your tone and singling out a user who obviously isn't asking questions maliciously.
8:15 PM
One of the things I have to keep reminding myself is Aviation.SE isn't Server Fault - the charter is different. Aviation.SE explicitly includes total newbies, novices like me, experts, enthusiasts, and even people on the outside looking in.
@abelenky "no" knowledge of aviation is slightly strong, but it's true that I'm not "knowledgeable" about it
If it makes anyone feel better, I can add in the questions about Weather Modification... runway headings related to Pole-Reversal, and probably a few others.
youtube comment
> I thought the language of the skies was English? 
@PatoSáinz Except in France :-)
8:16 PM
@abelenky You don't think it's worth having questions like how runways are numbered?
The whole point of the site is to become an authoritative source of all information
Its googleable... its pretty obvious.
I don't think StackExchange sites should be filled with super-easy answers.
Also, I'd highly recommend looking at: area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/42572/aviation
@voretaq7 server fault is so friendly to newbies!
(and runway headings related to Pole Reversal is definite out-there)
8:17 PM
@PatoSáinz Only because they took away my chipper-shredder :-)
@voretaq7 lol
A Pan Am 727 waiting for start clearance in Munich overheard the following:

Lufthansa (in German): "Ground, what is our start clearance time?"
Ground (in English): "If you want an answer you must speak in English."
Lufthansa (in English): "I am a German, flying a German airplane, in Germany. Why must I speak English?"
Unknown voice from another plane (in a British accent): "Because you lost the bloody war!"
I can't bring myself to Snopes that, because I'm like 1000% sure it's urban legend, but I laugh my ass off every time I read it.
@abelenky It's not necessarily "super-easy" questions, it's more "oh there's an interesting question" from someone passing through the site that isn't an expert
8:19 PM
British Airways approaching Berlin, but lost, and asking for far more vectors than he should.
German controller: "BA 123: Haven't you ever been here before!"
BA123: "Yes, about 70 years ago... it was night, and there weren't any lights".
@abelenky By the same token the forward/aft CG performance impacts are in every aviation ground school, every textbook, and I think they're even in the Airplane Flying Manual -- it's still worth having the question/answer. Part of the site is "interesting" questions, and part of it is "building a comprehensive reference" (ala Stack Overflow) -- it's a bit of an odd balancing act, but I'm pretty sure we'll find the right blend
@abelenky lol I like that
@abelenky hah yeah that's another good one :-)
If you want a LONG thread on radio conversations:
some funny MP3 recordings of ATC here too: liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips
8:22 PM
@abelenky avweb still publishes Short Final periodically - good stuff in there sometimes :)
also some sobering ones there
@DannyBeckett I'll poke around and see if I have the really lost guy at Republic bookmarked or easily gooleable
lol ok
Side topic: When I'm not actually flying, I put some decent time into my Flight Sims.
How do you think Flight-Sim. related posts would go over on Aviation.SE?
!!youtube Funny ATC - A hard day at JFK Tower
that's a good one
@abelenky they'll do
Q: Would flight simulations be on topic?

Qantas 94 HeavyWould flight simulation discussion be on topic or not? Personally, there's two categories of so-called "flight simulators": "Certified" flight simulators in use with training facilities in real life (such as a FAA Level D FFS) Games that attempt to make flying more accessible (e.g. Microsoft F...

@abelenky Despite earlier, I have to admit, I'd like to see some questions about sims
it was kinda hilarious - guy didn't know whether he was east/west or north/south of the field. When the controller eventually figured out where he was they came back with something like "Winds calm, you're cleared to land on any runway you want" (unspoken: "Just please get the damn thing on the ground without crashing into the tower")
8:26 PM
@voretaq7 wow
@BretCopeland yeah - it was only funny 'cuz it must have been like middle-of-a-weekday because there was like nobody else on the frequency
I'm surprised he was even on the right frequency at that point.
BTW: There used to be a popular video with an "old-timer" who wouldn't take direction from ATC.... he finally said, something like, "My instruments work just fine, and I don't need your help. Please don't bother me no more".

I haven't been able to find that video in awhile now... anyone know what I'm describing?
@OttotheAutopilot poor atc
@BretCopeland In fairness to the guy I think he was coming in from the north if I remember right. IDK how it was when you did your local familiarization flights, but for the longest time I had trouble picking up the field from the north
@PatoSáinz I'm surprised our local controllers don't have more nervous breakdowns. After a weekend shift I think they must just curl up at the base of the tower rocking and muttering about "so many planes... make the buzzing stop"
8:29 PM
Its what I liked best about flying around Seattle: between the water and mountains, it is literally impossible to get lost. Since i moved to Kansas, everything is flat, and everything looks the same. If I didn't have GPS, I might never find my way around.
@voretaq7 that's got to be a mind-developing job
I understand how the DreamLifter ended up at the wrong place.
@voretaq7 I only had one "familiarization" flight before I was signed off to fly on my own. This actually surprised me. We just went to BDR and back.
My GF is applying for ATC....
Then she can boss me around, and get paid for it.
@PatoSáinz developing...shattering....
8:30 PM
hang on
that recording was from JFK?!!
holy shit
@DannyBeckett That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
@BretCopeland if you can find your way to/from BDR without help you've pretty much covered the hard stuff. As long as you don't make an ass out of yourself on the radios and can read a chart the flying part around here isn't too hard :)
@voretaq7 I was more curious about what my options were for flying west. Didn't know what JFK would let you do in terms of trying to transition their airspace.
8:34 PM
@BretCopeland I've never had a problem getting a transition through JFK's side of the Class B debacle. Northwest through LGA's end I usually just cut around the perimeter because it's easier for everyone :P
@voretaq7 like, under the shelf between LGA and HPN?
@BretCopeland either under the shelf or outside the perimeter - usually if I'm going somewhere upstate it's more north than west so I'll cut over to Carmel (CMK) and then on course from there.
@abelenky one of my students was from Chicago, and said the opposite... "all the mountains look the same"
I do find JFK tries to get rid of you as soon as possible when you're going back east toward republic. They usually take me along the shore until about Long Beach and then have me descend under the shelf and dump me - I'm OK with that though, at least they're not making me do that "skim the waves" below 500 feet shit down with the banner tow planes :P
> Back when I was an instructor, one of our school's students was on his first solo cross country when he was asked by ATC, "Cessna XXX, Say Altitude." Without missing a beat, but in an unsure voice, he replied "Altitude!". The controller was not impressed.
lol that ones pretty funny
8:39 PM
@voretaq7 ah, I have some friends who are from Scranton, so I'll probably start flying over there occasionally, and I've been trying to figure out my best route for that. Carmel is a little out of my way if I can avoid it.
he got lost on his checkride for 20 minutes, eventually confirmed his position, and passed the flight
@DannyBeckett "Say Altitude", "Say airspeed", "Say 'Cancel IFR'" ;-)
yeah exactly
@egid: That's hilarious. :)
@egid I have actually never gotten lost - including on my first solo cross-country in the rental plane where the VOR antenna had broken off a few flights before :-P
8:40 PM
@abelenky the DPE took him up north of Arlington where the valley splits off
(actually the VOR worked BETTER with the antenna gone than it had when it was still attached)
based on what he was seeing, he though the was a lot further north
but he knew he was wrong, and kept working on it, and the examiner gave him complete credit for doing everything the right way even when he screwed up
of course having said that the next time I go up to do pattern work or something I'm going to wind up in Maine somehow
said he was one of the better pilots he'd flown with that season
Very nice. :)
8:42 PM
@abelenky that's a good thread actually
> I was going into an airport one day in the late 1990's and heard the controller tell a Delta plane to make a right 360 for spacing on a G/A plane. The Delta crew responded, "Do you understand that turn would cost my company $500?" The controller said, "Roger. Delta xxx make a right $500 turn for spacing."
My long, three-legged solo flight was: skyvector.com/…
but yeah, i spent 3 years flying in North Dakota, and it can get pretty hard to distinguish
It remains the most amazing flight I've ever been on.....
nice, that's a fun route
did you finish with WA or Galvin?
Finished with WA....
8:43 PM
hah, my guess was Galvin
i've heard some horror stories about training with Wings
when I thought WA was on the verge of bankruptcy, several instructors and students all jumped over to Galvin.
not about flying with them once you're a pilot, but just that their course is pretty disorganized
But Wings somehow survived.
I was part 61.... barely went through any formalized course at all.
damnit guys
8:44 PM
all you do is make me want to learn to fly
@egid my checkride was awesome -- except it was one of those days where I literally could not land an airplane properly if my life depended on it. The DPE said he was about ready to clobber me with the clipboard. (Round 2 was much better, with landings as opposed to arrivals-on-the-runway-with-a-thunk)
Do it!
@abelenky yes sure let me go to the bathroom and shit seven grand
save up and go
but do an intro lesson first to make sure
@PatoSáinz ...seven? :-P
8:45 PM
Lesson I learned from flying: If you decide that something is important to you, you will find a way.
Step One is to decide that it is important to you.
I made myself a promise when I started training that I would never look at how much the total cost was. I still keep that promise :P
@voretaq7 according to an answer on aviation.se yep
@abelenky that sounds like get-there-itis ;)
@voretaq7 do it >:)
@PatoSáinz $7-9k is actually reasonable if you fly a lot and power through the training
8:46 PM
@abelenky of course, that's how i achieved buying me my first DSLR
egid: Well, not-crashing is more important.
i already set goals etc
@PatoSáinz Nein! Dude I don't even look at the total maintenance costs for the plane! :-P
but first i'd like to advance as a photographer
From abelenky's link:
> BAck in '94 while flying E-3's out of Saudi, the Jedda Control literally told everyone over the radio to "Shut UP"! He was awfully busy controling me (E-3), and 4 other airliners. He really got upset when a BA plane called to check in. The Saudi controllers response...."I told evedryone to shut up"!
8:47 PM
It hurts less when you just look at the bill immediately in front of you :)
That's pretty funny.
(who thinks that "get-there-its" is the cause of the recent Aspen crash? No pilot in their right mind would've attempted that landing with a 30Kt tailwind)
@abelenky link?
(mumble*3 grand for seat belts I don't even plan on using*mumble)
8:48 PM
i'll first buy me more lenss for my dslr
oh, no, meant the aspen crash
do any of your planes have a seat for a copilot?
@abelenky ...I landed in a 10kt tailwind once (intentionally) - I can't imagine doing THAT again, much less 30kt. Unless the guy like totally misread the wind or something
@PatoSáinz pretty much all the light GA stuff has dual controls
@voretaq7 oh i meant copilot in the regular car way
as in, useless person in the cockpit
8:49 PM
not as in, useful navigation and relay guy
do your cockpits have seats for useless people?
@PatoSáinz ...I have two back seats for short people. But they're useful - they shift the CG aft :-)
If you sit in my right-seat, I'm making you work....
@abelenky same. If nothing else "Here, hold it straight and level while I copy down the 16 pages of shit ATC is about to relay to me..."
if nothing else, you're holding my snacks.
More likely, you're tuning my radios, and watching my moving map.
do anybody want a photographer in their cockpit? (so somebody takes me flying)
When I was working on my CFII, we did approaches at the airbase to the west. At one point I switched to approach control while they were working an apparently overwhelmed instrument student on the ILS. "Sioux 55, contact Red River Tower, 124.9" "Uhh, Sioux 55, contact tower... um, what was tower again?" Approach didn't miss a beat... "It's a big tall building with lots of windows, but that's not important right now."
@abelenky all my non-pilot passengers get a 5 minute mini-lecture on pointing out traffic
@egid you'll need to register to listen to the ATC recording
8:50 PM
@egid <APPLAUSE>
I loved the USAF controllers over there. Really damn good, super professional, but they had a great sense of humor
I got 6 o'clock traffic calls once in a while and they'd get halfway through before realizing we were Pipers with no back windows
"Sioux 35, traffic your six o'disregard"
@egid It's still nice to know :-)
@egid lol
i think it was usually advisory stuff passing behind you etc
you people are making me want to learn to fly (or at least to be an ATC)
8:53 PM
@PatoSáinz ATC pays pretty well around here
Once tower called and pointed out some traffic ahead of me.
I responded with "Target in sight," the broke up laughing before, "correction: Traffic in sight".
@voretaq7 what do you study to be one?
just wondering
@PatoSáinz <rummage>
@PatoSáinz ask in Aviation.SE
8:54 PM
My GF went to a college that participated in "Controller Training Initiative" (CIT).
I ought to get some of my classmates to get on here, one is an FAA ATC shift supervisor
@egid would you ask for me
@abelenky that seems to be the usual path.
@egid that would be awesome
8:54 PM
@egid you definitely should
@voretaq7 I don't suppose you reached out to the podcasts?
also, plz do
@DannyBeckett no emailing the UCAP guys is on my todo list this week though
ah good stuff! :)
8:55 PM
he's about to have a kid, might not have time
@egid LIES! Controllers don't have families! They're nameless, faceless voices that vector you all over creation because to them airplanes are just a giant etch-a-sketch in the sky! :-P
are you sure it's not pilots who think that?
that was on UCAP
"Center, why all the vectors?"
"I'm writing my name in the sky. If you have a problem you can go sit in the 'O' holding pattern with the other complainers."
@egid that's the 787 logo flight? That was AWESOME.
8:57 PM
LOL.... here, my checkout pilot at my new club is also ATC... and so is her husband...
I think we have two pilots in our tower now
Didn't Thorton, in Pushing Tin, say, "I just move the little dots around without hitting each other. Nobody told me those were People!"
will moderators get Aviation.SE business cards like the Finance guys?
I saw the design mocks for that
I'd walk some up to my tower if somebody sent a batch ;)
they like CFIs there
you could get some great quality ones for free if you were in the EU
(I just got some from Exaprint)
9:01 PM
@egid I'm not sure what we do for pro tem beta moderators. We like to give lots of things to our moderators in general though.
@egid though, if there's something we (as a company) could do which is inexpensive, but would generate new active users (especially controllers) then I bet I could get someone to make it happen.
yeah, dunno how that would work
ship people out to EAA fly-ins?
depends on your definition of inexpensive, obviously
LOL. Don't we wish!
> IND: "Delta 1234, contact Cleveland on 123.2"
Delta: "24.2, Delta 1234"
Immediately after Delta's transmission:
IND: "Delta 1234, sorry, I gave you the wrong freq. Should be 132.2, you still there?"
Delta:"Nope, too late!"
There was a special on NG last night: Miracle landing on the Hudson
can be found on your favorite ship
watching now... looks interesting
@egid < $100 = probably. < $500 = maybe ... if it's REALLY gonna work. Printing cards falls under the inexpensive category.
9:07 PM
@egid actually two of the AOPA fly-ins are within reasonable travel distance for us :P
heh, I can make it to the NWEAA fly-in pretty easily
not sure how much booths are, though
@BretCopeland way less than $500
It's like £30 for 1,000 here
so the other day I was up with a friend shooting some approaches, and ATC was having trouble raising a Boeing test flight... which, when they finally responded did so with "Center, sorry, we were on the land line."
I couldn't stop laughing
it was such a dumb joke
9:34 PM
(just posted new question)
how the hell is my question getting so many views?
that's another 500 in 1 hour
up to 2,000 views in a few hours
@DannyBeckett Which question?
Q: I just saw a plane drop off online radar; should I do anything about it?

Danny BeckettI was watching Flight Radar 24, positioned near my house, to see what planes I could spot, and noticed a Cessna 550's transponder just dropped off @ 5,325 ft in a high-speed descent! Is there something I should do about it? Or do I assume somebody in ATC has seen it? Is there anything anyone sh...

@DannyBeckett :shrug: Free reps? :)
@abelenky before you comment, I didn't/wouldn't do anything about it. It was more a question I thought would be good to have an answer on, for the site
@voretaq7 shrug indeed... especially on a site with <200 vists/day
9:40 PM
The crowd has spoken. (I still think its a ridiculous idea)
ah, I think it was a hot network question (based on Googling the question title)
worth it just for the traffic
One day, my brother was practicing his advanced white-water kayaking techniques.
He was on a flat lake, in calm water, on a sunny day, making his boat bounce around, dive under the water, flip back up, twist around, etc, etc. It took considerable skill, training, experience, etc, and he was having a blast.
But some redneck on shore called 911 to report a kayaker in trouble, saying the guy was struggling to stay afloat, and couldn't control his boat.
The police came racing over... ready to rescue a drowning victim.
When they saw him, they understood he was in total control, and the yahoo on shore had no idea what he was watching.
(initially I mis-read it as a Cessna 150, descending at 300 kts... it was actually a 550)
9:45 PM
@abelenky somebody on an Amtrak train recently called the police because they heard the word "bomb" used by somebody on a phone call. the train was delayed in Eugene for 4.5 hours.
unfortunately people are going to do things like that, and waste hours, and thousands of dollars in the process
better that in the aviation case there are answers saying "don't do anything, it's probably fine"
Think about that, next time you think you see a developing emergency. Whether its a kayaker in the lake, a pilot practicing power-off stalls, engine out emergencies, or just descending below 10,000. Remember, that you are the red-neck yahoo who doesn't know what he's looking at. The guy in the plane is the professional.
see, that's why i think it is not a ridiculous question
but your opinion seems to be coming from the other end
I get it, but I disagree
that was the whole reason I posted the question....
anyway, as I say, lots of free traffic is always good
>141 rep
>nice question badge
9:48 PM
thanks everyone

@abelenky grrr
@abelenky if we have good, useful, non-condescending answers to questions like that, then we'll hopefully encourage people with questions like that to stick around and read other questions and answers.
it's still being promoted on the SO homepage actually
9:51 PM
i hate you, postfix
hopefully it ends up at 10k by the time it's been 24 hours and we get some new users
lmao @ that flag
"hot questions"
@egid Postfix is not fond of you either, meatbag
9:54 PM
@DannyBeckett we should be getting good referral
yeah exactly Pato
@voretaq7 yeah well fine then
@egid you wanna start something? 'cuz postfix can just ya know, not pass your mail through the spam filter for a little while :-)
postqueue: fatal: Queue report unavailable - mail system is down
no this is local testing
we use freemarker to build emails, i have to output a test run and then send it to myself
normally it's very fast but occasionally on macos postfix just chokes and stops sending for a bit
@PatoSáinz you also have a question on the hot list!

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