English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:04

Haha, wow.

Slightly less crowded, but still unpleasantly crowded (just like here).

RegDwighт

00:14

@KitFox meh. Of course they had to pick the crappiest song ever. And of course one of the guys had to sit down and simply start playing. I'm underwhelmed.

Cerberus

@davidwallace I have a rather special Geoguesser challenge for you:
http://www.geoguessr.com/?s=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…

I hope you like it.

Mitch

01:10

argh..I got 6477, 20 meters away

@MattЭллен he's a dooku, not a doku

Cerberus

01:32

@Mitch Which one?

I made the challenge, I didn't really play it, so those "0 metres" are bogus.

@Mitch So make one for me on geosettr.com, if you like.

skullpatrol

02:12

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

02:32

RIP, Tony Soprano.

skullpatrol

Tony who?

Mitch

@Cerberus Vina del Mar outside of Valparaiso, Chile.

Yes, 0 metres is not fair! I've gotten as close as a meter

@Cerberus I wish you could find and choose places yourself. wait...is that what you did?

Cerberus

@Mitch Wow, congrats!

@Mitch Absolutely!

Mitch

02:52

@Cerberus what? you can't chose the spots you want, can you? If so, how?

Cerberus

1 hour ago, by Cerberus

@Mitch So make one for me on http://www.geosettr.com, if you like.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@skullpatrol James Gandolfini.

Mitch

@Cerberus ?? geoguessr doesn't have a selection for making a location of your own choosing and letting someone else try to figure out where it is. all you an do is choose 'make a challenge' and -it- makes the random choices still but just more than one person can do the same thing.

skullpatrol

03:13

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Wow only 51!

Cerberus

03:24

@Mitch Click the link, silly man!

And/or read the address.

Mitch

ohhhhhhhhh......

Cerberus

Haha.

Mitch

03:43

here you go. Make sure you look closely at the end.

how do put in the long text (of the long link in geosettr) in to chat?

NullPoiиteя

03:56

morning ...

Cerberus

@Mitch Shift-enter <link>

Mitch

http://geoguessr.com/?s=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%3D

there.

gah!

Cerberus

Ahah!

Very nice start.

I wasn't supposed to play any more tonight...

But...

Mitch

wait for it then.

They're all dumb.

sort of.

Cerberus

> Your guess was 0.053 km from the correct location and gave 6475 points.

Yay!

Mitch

04:06

2 you should get immediately. 2 you should never get. I don't know what happened to the middle one.

Cerberus

Not dumb. Fun.

Mitch

ha ha! see , so easy!

Cerberus

Hmm we'll see...

A white-painted American suburb. It's hot.

Mitch

that hardly narrows it down!

Cerberus

Monroe County...

My guess would be somewhere in Florida...

Tropical-ish.

Ah-HAH!!

Mitch

04:15

yes...but some place special.

Cerberus

Florida Keys!

Mitch

!!/Yes!

Caprica Six

@Mitch That didn't make much sense. Use the help command to learn more.

Cerberus

Florida Scenic Highway.

Haha

The road sign gave you away.

Mitch

Key West, the very end.

As a player, signs make everything easier, you don't have to travel far to figure it out.

Cerberus

04:17

Hey, don't tell me that!

I had just figured that out.

> Your guess was 0.003 km from the correct location and gave 6479 points.

Ah, shit, browser crashed.

Mitch

too late for me, the last one was the good one.

Cerberus

Hmm?

Ah, you you decided to ape my Antarctica, huh?

> Your guess was 273.932 km from the correct location and gave 2671 points.

I couldn't remember where the camp was exactly.

And this looks like Lapland or something...

Yes, the see the Norwegian flag.

And what the hell are those people doing there!?

It's freaking cold!

Ahhh Spitsbergen!!

> Your guess was 0.573 km from the correct location and gave 6431 points.

Buwhaha! Turns out there is only a single town on the islands.

Hah! The last one is nice. I can tell you the street without walking.

> Your guess was 0.003 km from the correct location and gave 6479 points.

@Mitch Very nice! It was great fun.

I was lucky to see some signs.

My score: bit.ly/12cvH6u

Perhaps I should have looked around on Antarctica longer.

Now it's bed time.

Adieu!

Anonymous

04:43

@Mitch The exact quote is "Make like a tree, and get outta here!" :-)

Cerberus

This is a random challenge (I didn't make it). I did it without walking. There was one that was truly impossible to get; the others I was able to get fairly close.
http://bit.ly/12cwowy

Anonymous

I tried that game once. I managed to guess the wrong continent five times in a row.

Cerberus

That's completely normal, the first time.

But maybe you should try Mitch's challenge.

It's significantly easier than a random challenge.

47 mins ago, by Mitch

http://geoguessr.com/?s=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%3D

Anonymous

@Cerberus Okay, sure! Let's see if the easier is significantly enough for me ;-)

Cerberus

Hehe.

@snailboat Make sure you walk around and look at signs and flags!

Anonymous

04:52

Is it just me, or is there a ghost in the first picture?

Cerberus

I saw it too!

Must be a dead gladiator.

Anonymous

Ooh, I never tried walking around. I guess I figured that was cheating.

Cerberus

Oh haha.

Well, it depends on by which rule you play.

Easy mode: you're allowed to consult external resources.

Anonymous

And then I can pretend I'm not geographically illiterate!

Cerberus

Normal mode: you're allowed to walk around.

Hard mode: you're allowed to turn and zoom.

@snailboat It's mainly practice that makes you better at the game. And realising that they have km in Australia and Canada.

But they drive on the left only in Australia.

Anonymous

04:55

Woo hoo! "Your guess was 0.913 km from the correct location and gave 6402 points. The challenging guess was 0 km from the correct location and gave 6479 points"

Cerberus

And the sun can be in the north in Australia.

@snailboat Congrats!!

The challenging guess is fake, btw.

Anonymous

So far, I'm playing on normal mode.

Cerberus

That's what I normally do, unless otherwise indicated.

Make sure you walk around until you see the shape of the continent you're on, on a flag somewhere.

Anonymous

Funny how the license plates being blurred out works out for this game :-)

Cerberus

I happened to know there's only one spot in that place where they have Streetview, so then I knew where it was. Otherwise, it's impossible to know.

Heh.

Okay, c'est le temps du lit.

Bonne nuit!

Anonymous

04:58

@Cerberus Rest well!

Cerberus

Merci!

Anonymous

When Street View first came out, when you clicked on an arrow to follow a street, it had this visual effect as a transition between panoramas that made me really dizzy... I had to go lie down until my brain fixed itself.

Anonymous

I'm pretty happy that clicking arrows just fades to the next image, now.

Anonymous

"Your guess was 74.128 km from the correct location and gave 3518 points. The challenging guess was 0 km from the correct location and gave 6479 points" Woo hoo! Well, that's enough geoguessr for me.

Anonymous

I'm quitting while I'm ahead.

MετάEd

05:09

@snailboat Wonder if that's browser specific. It still does that thing to me.

Anonymous

@MετάEd Oh, no! I thought they'd finally decided to stop making people dizzy.

Anonymous

Well, in case it is browser-specific, I'm using SeaMonkey 2.17.1 on Linux.

MετάEd

@snailboat Maybe so. It's not doing it for me tonight.

@snailboat Hmm. See monkey, do monkey, I suppose.

MετάEd

05:24

Stationary challenge: turn and zoom but don't move and beat: bit.ly/10zj7V1

O0oO0oOO0ooO

06:09

Lego movie in 2014 lol!!

►

Noah

Hllo

Where's everyone?

I hope they are either deep asleep or deep awake.

FLASHING NEWS

Sporano has died.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

06:45

simchona

07:03

@noah you mean James Gandolfini? He was relatively young too.

And it's usually either a "news flash" or breaking news

RegDwighт

08:45

0

A: Relating to or related to?

Existence and uniqueness of a fractional differential system relating to seven-dimensional coefficients

The most helpful answer I have read in a long time.

Matt Эллен

10:56

the calculation is right, just not when other people are watching

RegDwighт

11:23

@Cerberus looks like the pic was a fabrication. The original is now making its rounds.

Mitch

@Cerberus I was hoping to randomly get your front door. Just to shock. You posted a picture once of your street and they all have that same look.

Matt Эллен

12:03

@RegDwighт Putin has the longest left ankle ever

RegDwighт

Another day, another bit of knowledge gained.

Tube Maps by Lego. You seen this in person?

Matt Эллен

Nice! no. It wasn't there in May. I haven't been back since.

Matt Эллен

12:32

"Tipping, and the aristocratic idea it exemplifies, is what we left Europe to escape" — William Rufus Scott, 1916

RegDwighт

12:46

> One British tourist says she and her friends were followed out of a Manhattan restaurant by an angry waiter unhappy with a 10-15% tip.

Fuck him with a broomstick.

It's a tip. It is his job. If he complains, he deserves no tip and no salary.

Matt Эллен

quite. I don't see how he had the gaul. perhaps he was desparate

KitFox

13:38

Europeans are such crappy tippers.

Worse than women at lunch.

It's amazing they get any service at all in the States.

@RegDwighт They don't get salary, that's why he's pissed. They don't even make minimum wage. Tips are everything to servers over here.

Matt Эллен

then shouldn't they make minimum wage?

KitFox

No. Because they are in an industry where they receive tips, employers are allowed to pay them less than minimum wage.

Matt Эллен

Europeans aren't crappy tippers, US restaurant owners are crappy employers

@KitFox then it's not a tip, it's a charge. tips are discresionary.

KitFox

Well, no, it's not. You can leave as much as you like or nothing at all.

Matt Эллен

then he shouldn't get pissed off

Cerberus

13:45

@RegDwighт This one makes much more sense, thanks.

KitFox

@MattЭллен You try working service over here and see how long you can take it. growls

Matt Эллен

@KitFox no. I don't want to work in an industry that treats its workers with disregard

KitFox

People who are demanding assholes and then leave shit for a tip. It gets under your skin after a while.

Cerberus

@Mitch Heh, well, there is no Street View in my street...but that place of yours is about 15 minutes from here on foot.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus so... anywhere in Amsterdam :D

Cerberus

13:47

Well...

RegDwighт

@KitFox yes, I read that. So what? Why should I care as a customer?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I should be paid by my employer to put up with that shit. I shouldn't expect people who are obviously inconsiderate to consider me.

RegDwighт

They get their salary from their employer. If they don't like their salary, they should take it up with their employer. Not with the customers. That's like Everything 101.

KitFox

@RegDwighт Because they are serving you and catering your whims. You should appreciate that and not be a prick.

And ditto @Matt.

Mitch

@snailboat Thanks! (corrected the quote and added the link)

RegDwighт

13:50

@KitFox I am a prick for giving someone 15% who then chases me down the street? Really? Really?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox that doesn't make sense. you already said they are an asshole.

Cerberus

The farther away you go, the uglier it gets, but you can walk on for 3 hours from here and still be within the city limits...

KitFox

I'm saying if you worked in the industry, you'd have a little more sympathy for that server.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен I agree that tipping is very annoying, but, if that happens to be how the system works...

Mitch

@KitFox and the French! Don't get me started!

RegDwighт

13:51

@KitFox and I say that in that case either the industry must change, or people shouldn't work in it.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox right. I have sympathy, but it doesn't make sense to expect something that isn't mandatory.

KitFox

@RegDwighт Right. Because there is a shortage of the labor necessary to work tables, so unionizing is a snap.

Matt Эллен

I've dealt with shitty customers, and all that, but I didn't expect them to then give me extra money

Mitch

@RegDwighт You could work in the fast food industry where there is no tipping.

RegDwighт

A surgeon who saves your life gets no tip. A bimbo who brought you a glass demands 20%.

Cerberus

13:53

@RegDwighт I think it will eventually be phased out even in bars/restaurants. Remember, tipping used to be everywhere, not a century ago.

Mitch

@RegDwighт I think the surgeon gets enough already. A tip would make his head get that much bigger, it would explode.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus actually if you read that article, tipping used to be illegal in six states a century ago.

@Mitch precisely my point.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт That's weird (I didn't know there was an article). But, in most of the world, then, you had to tip for everything.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus yes, there is that. It's very difficult to change such a culture

Cerberus

You can't do it on your own.

Mitch

13:54

The mohel gets to keep the tip.

rimshot

a little muffled rimshot

RegDwighт

@Cerberus then go read it. It's actually quite informative.

1 hour ago, by Matt Эллен

"Tipping, and the aristocratic idea it exemplifies, is what we left Europe to escape" — William Rufus Scott, 1916

I didn't know some of that.

Cerberus

What's also interesting is how some people don't tip the maids in an hotel before checking out.

@RegDwighт Oh haha, that romantic "escape" idea.

Mitch

@Cerberus so in Europe you're supposed to tip the maid but not the waitress at a restaurant?

These rules need to be laid out.

KitFox

They pay them enough there, I guess.

RegDwighт

No matter whom you ask where, they never get enough.

It's just that some get more not enough than others.

Mitch

13:57

@Cerberus and probably still looks like that...the canals...and houses...go on forever!

Cerberus

@Mitch No, you're sort of supposed to tip the waitress, at least in most countries, but it's not actually required, and tips are much lower, because the pay is higher.

Mitch

Using google maps that is.

Cerberus

I sometimes forget to tip.

@Mitch Not at all! Large parts of the city are ugly post-war prisons, like everywhere else.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus 10% is the max here. Many people can't do maths and round up, so especially after the introduction of the Euro the tips went way up, but still, it is not unusual to see 5% or 2% or none at all.

Matt Эллен

Not that it matters to me. Were I in America, I'd tip. I tip here, just not 20%

Mitch

13:59

So at a barbershop/haridresser, does one tip? Of course, but what if it is a one person shop...they're the owner, why would you tip the owner?

Cerberus

@RegDwighт It is about the same here.

@Mitch Never.

That is unheard of here.

KitFox

Do you tip cabbies?

RegDwighт

Yeah.

Mitch

@Cerberus There's something to be said for the boringness (tedium?) of american cities then.

Matt Эллен

I don't tip at the barbers. It feels really awkward

RegDwighт

13:59

I never take a cab, though.

Matt Эллен

I seldom tip cabbies. I don't like how they drive.

Cerberus

@KitFox We have the most expensive cabs in the world. But I may round it up. Or not.

RegDwighт

Also if I need a receipt for our finance, I won't tip.

KitFox

Funny, I more frequently tip when I am getting a receipt.

RegDwighт

Or perhaps I will. Sometimes. See, I really can't remember. I took the cab like three times in the last twenty years.

Cerberus

14:01

@Mitch I have seen nice American neighbourhoods. And your ugly suburbs look less ugly than ours!

Matt Эллен

mtg

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Neither do I. Taxis are scum here, in every respect.

KitFox

tch I want to go see Sting tonight!

Apparently, someone in the gopher farm near me is going.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus can't say that here, but one thing I noticed when I took a taxi two months ago is that the prices had gone up by a factor of four and a half since the last time I took it on the same route, which was two or three years ago.

Of course in no small part due to gas prices, but still.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Haha, exactly.

1. Taxis are the rudest and most dangerous drivers. They are incredibly annoying when you're behind one, and there are more taxis than private cars here.

RegDwighт

14:05

The taximan was a taxiwoman, with a lovely dog on the backseat, whom I fed dog biscuits I always carry around with me.

Cerberus

2. They will often refuse short rides, even when it's raining, even to women on high heels.

3. They are the most expensive in the world.

RegDwighт

So I enjoyed the experience, just not the price. Still, I gave her a tip of 50 cent. Even though she actually offered to knock 50 cent off the price.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Now, taxiwomen sound much better!

How much was it, for what distance?

From my house to the airport would be about € 50 or so, I think.

Maybe more.

RegDwighт

It was like six kilometers, eight tops. I paid 18,50 plus the tip.

Cerberus

Yeah, that's expensive.

RegDwighт

14:07

And I only let her take me to the nearest tram station.

Three years ago, I'd drive the whole way home and pay like 10.

KitFox

I wonder if she offered other services.

RegDwighт

What's the point? I wouldn't be able to pay.

You're not paying attention.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт That's cheap.

KitFox

@RegDwighт I am. I was just thinking about other things.

Cerberus

And I heard foreigners often pay double what I would pay, even.

RegDwighт

14:09

How's that work?

Cerberus

I don't know.

RegDwighт

Because here we have tax-o-meters or what they are called.

Cerberus

They do, but do foreigners know that?

They might invent some sort of surcharge? Put the meter on night mode?

I don't know.

RegDwighт

You can see the price as you are being driven around, and get your heart attack gradually.

Cerberus

I could drive you around in circles...

RegDwighт

14:10

@Cerberus it's one giant blinking number right in the frigging middle of the frigging car. If they can't see it, they deserve to pay more.

KitFox

We have meters in our cabs too.

RegDwighт

The funny thing is, the lady driver couldn't actually read the number. She asked me what it said.

Cerberus

Taxis being the scum that they are, everyone should be given a taxi license at a very low cost, just registration and no criminal record.

RegDwighт

So actually I could have told her any number I wanted.

KitFox

Maybe she had you on foreigner mode.

Cerberus

14:11

@RegDwighт Umm tape?

KitFox

Now I've got Foreigner in my head.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus duct tape?

I no understand.

Cerberus

Yeah.

RegDwighт

Oh, you mean duct tape?

Cerberus

Of course.

RegDwighт

14:13

Well I would guess if you went out of your way like that, it would be considered fraud in any sane country and get you in jail and out of your license.

Cerberus

Of course it would be. But how would people find out?

Tourists are vulnerable and don't have a clue.

RegDwighт

I dunno, by wondering why the fuck there's a huge fixture right in the middle of the front window, taped over with duct tape?

Cerberus

"No, this is a meterless taxi, yes, I have a special license for that. Want to read it? It's in Dutch."

Not actual duct tape, of course. Just cover the meter.

RegDwighт

I wasn't aware the Dutch were scamming tourists like that. Remind me to never visit.

Cerberus

It is said Amsterdam is particularly bad in that regard.

RegDwighт

14:15

I thought in Amsterdam everyone was using bikes.

Cerberus

In the country, it will be better.

Yes, and yet there are a ton of taxis everywhere.

RegDwighт

I know for a fact I wouldn't take a taxi in Amsterdam. Or any old European city, for that matter. They are laughingly tiny. And to Schiphol I would expect to be able to take a bus.

Cerberus

Seriously, literally every other car in my neighbourhood is a taxi.

RegDwighт

Pagina niet gevonden.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт A train. It takes you right into the airport hall within 20 minutes.

KitFox

14:17

@RegDwighт Laughably.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus doesn't work here, as there are way too many taxis already, so they don't earn anything, so people are not exactly eager to enter the business.

@KitFox yeah I stopped and looked at that word for like eight seconds but couldn't figure out what was wrong with it.

KitFox

I figured.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Are you sure? Because we have illegal taxis.

@RegDwighт If there are too many taxis, then how come they are so expensive?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I am sure. Nobody will take an illegal taxi here. And I literally mean nobody. Not one person. Ever. As a result, they simply do not even exist.

Cerberus

Odd.

I meant, "they don't earn anything".

If that is so, then why don't they lower their prices?

RegDwighт

14:19

@Cerberus as I said, mostly gas. And the taxes/insurance, I guess. But I do not know the details. I just noticed that the prices skyrocketed.

Cerberus

Gas is not that expensive.

Hence our cheap illegal taxis.

KitFox

Maybe the charge for the shield went up.

RegDwighт

I mean, I constantly see taxis parking in certain designated spots in the city, dozens of them, and I always wonder, who the heck even takes them from there, and to where?

Cerberus

My friend used to call this guy Achmed when he needed a ride home.

@RegDwighт Same here.

And yet they all drive Mercedeses. Ever wondered about that?

RegDwighт

At the central rail station they make sense. And at the airport. But at each end of the local shopping mile? Meh. First of all, this is a tiny city. People can walk. Second of all, the public transport is flat out fantastic. Most to the point, though, this is Germany. Everyone and his dog has three cars of his own.

Cerberus

14:21

No, I rather think it has something to do with weird organisations behind it, and crime. A taxi license costs about € 40,000 to obtain for a driver.

@RegDwighт It's exactly the same here, except more taxis.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus no, that I actually know all about. Mercedes heavily subsidizes and lobbies and offers exclusive deals and does this and that.

Cerberus

Really?

RegDwighт

They will even offer you to paint your car in that special taxi beige. Which other companies do not even have.

Sec phone.

Cerberus

How much of a discount do they get?

How much is a new Mercedes? 20,000?

30?

Not long ago, a taxi driver here killed a passenger after some conflict over payment.

Many of them are really nasty.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus It's been a while so I don't remember the exact numbers but it was ridiculous, like 45%, plus the free paint.

Still, not everyone drives a Mercedes round here. I do see some French cars, too.

And perhaps an occasional Ford.

Mitch

14:27

@Cerberus hm...different definition of suburbs I think. During the Paris riots a couple of years ago they kept calling 'Les banlieues' suburbs, and those banlieues are nothing like the American suburbs.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Okay, that is a lot. Depending on the normal price, that may be cheaper than, say, a Fiat.

But I don't remember ever seeing a taxi that wasn't a Mercedes here.

@Mitch Exactly: in Europe, suburbs are cheap and boring small houses at best, ghetti with huge apartment buildings at worst.

The closer you get to the centre, the better, on average, although there are of course some very expensive old neighbourhoods that are some distance away from the centre (though not as far away as most suburbs).

And, in France, suburbs are supposedly worse than in the rest of Europe.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus actually the cheap and boring small houses is precisely what you have in the US. Mitch's point is probably more like that the banlieues are still part of the city, while in the US the suburbs are essentially desert.

Cerberus

Although I'm not sure whether banlieu indicates just any suburb in France, or only the ghetti.

Mitch

@Cerberus huge apartment buildings is what I see labeled as suburbs in europe and that is just a plain different meaning than the word suburb in the US.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Desert? Hardly? I got the impression that suburbs were actually not that cheap in most American cities, but rather desirable areas.

"Suburbia".

@Mitch Yeah, that is my impression also.

Let me show you two pictures of typical Dutch suburbs.

Mitch

14:32

I wouldn't say desert, but there is a certain...lack... of all sorts of things. You don't see people or cars or anything other than trees and single family homes with yards.

Cerberus

RegDwighт

@Cerberus desert as in cloned houses with no appeal and no infrastructure whatsoever. No schools, no shops, not even bars, nothing. And quite often literally built into the desert. Not just in Vegas.

Mitch

yes, suburbia is a great desirable thing in the US. Living in the city is considered a negative at least for a family (that is a great oversimplification of course)

@Cerberus right, if that were in the US it would be considered inner city.

RegDwighт

I actually read some great research a couple years ago, on the effect that type of suburbs has on the American culture. I guess I won't be able to find it now.

Anyway, I got work to do.

Lators.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Yeah OK, that.

@RegDwighт Bye!

@Mitch Exactly. But we have low buildings in the inner cities, and a mixture of tall and low in suburbs.

On average.

RegDwighт

14:36

@Mitch except the effect was the exact opposite. It is desirable for you when you get rich and move out. It is not desirable for your kids when they grow up and have to drive miles to get to the next disco, or even just to school, or even just to their next friend.

But I'm not here.

Cerberus

And except in Rotterdam, which was bombed (which was bad, but there was still a lot left), but then utterly destroyed after the war, instead of saving what it had left.

@RegDwighт But the same applies to living in the country, and most kids manage.

And don't American university students mostly live on campi in the middle of nowhere anyway?

Here, students live in the city, in most cases.

But someone told me renting a room is far less common across the pond.

> Tipping is an important custom, he believes, because it propagates the "American myth" that hard work brings reward.

This.

Calvinism.

Mitch

@Cerberus The US is the opposite! Only tall buildings in the city, in the suburbs everything is detached and tallest 3 stories.

Cerberus

@Mitch I know!

Mitch

@Cerberus yes.

Cerberus

Right.

So did they demolish all the old buildings in the inner cities of Boston and Philadelphia and such?

They must have had them?

Mitch

14:51

@Cerberus ha ha...what a load of crap. That's a myth. like some french dude wrote a sociological account of the handful of rich self-aggrandizing americans he met.

Cerberus

Heh.

And Catholics tip because they want something in return...

Mitch

@Cerberus That is kind of ironic because the last major conflict on american soil was the american civial war which was long before cities had building sover 3 stories and the battles really didn't go into cities (some in the south were burned down by the residents as they left.)

Urban renewal (OK here's the irony) in the fifties took some select neighborhoods of big cities, razed them, but without bombs, and built highrises, which were public housing mostly.

Cerberus

Most of our cities weren't badly bombed either.

Mitch

@Cerberus Just rotterdam?

Cerberus

@Mitch So were all the 18th and 19th-century buildings in the inner cities destroyed in the '50s?

Mitch

14:56

no. but that's a misleading no.

Cerberus

@Mitch Parts of other cities were bombed, but none nearly as severely as Rotterdam. And, in fact, most of Rotterdam wasn't bombed: just the oldest, most beautiful part.

Mitch

all the 18th and 19th century bldgs were destroyed in inner cities by having skyscrapers built there.

Cerberus

So yes?

All between, say, 1900 and 1950?

Mitch

it was a continuous restructuring over the 20th c.

Cerberus

So in 1900, all the 18th-century buildings were still there?

Mitch

14:58

and not always complete...most east coast cities have small neighborhoods near the downtown area that are old buildings.

Cerberus

But look at Paris v. New York.

And they destroyed a lot more in Paris than in most other cities, in the 19th century.

Mitch

hm...now I'm overgeneralizing from little data (not knowing enough about history)

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