English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

1:14 AM

Following the discussion on meta, I have added the bullet "How to name this function/variable in my program" to the list of off-topic question in the FAQ.

RegDwight

1:57 AM

I'm going to bed, but this question needs some heavy rewording:

0

Q: Should have versus. Should of! - Endangering the English language?

Ok, I have seen a few Questions based on phonetic or misconstrued errors. So here's another one which really bugs me: "You should of done that!" rather than "You should have done that!". My question is, being such small and easy to make mistakes, are we in danger of slowly phasing out the corr...

grammar

zizi

8:48 AM

I'm not nagging, but questions don't have anything special. I'm not nagging

Robusto

11:02 AM

0

Q: how can I know the exact meaning of( cousin ) in a sentence ?

how can I know the exact meaning of( cousin ) in a sentence ?

meaning-in-context

Really? Another GAFTOD question.

zizi

11:39 AM

@Robusto I feel lack of RegDwight to close some questions

F'x

11:59 AM

@Robusto Q: how can I know the meaning of GAFTOD?

the following answer starts with “My question is of another sort”:

0

A: Using the definite article before a country/state name

Yeah, that tends to be quite vague, especially to foreigners. My question is of another sort, I mean phrases like "Nazi Germany", "Soviet Russia" or "Red China". Even though they refer to those countries' specific period in the past, they don't seem to take an article. However, I believe I came a...

if you're doing that, isn't it in itself a hint that something has gone wrong?

zizi

Great Awful Fucking Trash Omg Die

F'x

12:20 PM

0

Q: Evolution of irregular verbs over the last century

I learned at school that irregular verbs are slowly disappearing from the language: "spelled" is more used than "spelt", "learned" than "learnt", etc. But recently, someone told me that some new irregular forms are created: "snuck" instead of "sneaked", etc. Questions are: Is my understanding ab...

verbs irregular

I think I remember seeing something like that in the past, but can't find it

JSBangs

12:37 PM

@Fx yeah, it's a good question but i don't have a good reference to answer it at the moment

zizi

@JSBangs am i impolite?

JSBangs

@zizi huh?

zizi

@JSBangs i mean "for God's sake" counts as insult?

JSBangs

@zizi i'm sorry but i have no idea what you're talking about.

zizi

@JSBangs thanks for your help

JSBangs

12:50 PM

now i'm even more confused

zizi

@JSBangs I said "for God's sake ... (something)"and someone is accusing me cause of that .. to be polite .. any ideas about that are welcomed

JSBangs

@zizi ok, but where was this? i didn't see any of this, so i had no idea what you were referring to when you started in with "am i impolite?"

RegDwight

Yes, that comment was too impolite for my tastes.

And the following comments only got worse.

JSBangs

can somebody please link to what question we're talking about here?

RegDwight

@JSBangs The comments have been cleaned up.

zizi

12:58 PM

you mean you tastes are measurement or rules of the site?

yes, the moderator deleted all comments , easily

JSBangs

alrighty, then, but now i really don't understand why @zizi thought that i had something to do with in, since i only came in after everything was said and done

RegDwight

I have commented explaining my reasons.

You should really read my comment rather than flagging it.

JSBangs

maybe he (you) confused me with one of the mods

zizi

1

Q: Why do we call snail mail "snail mail"?

Why do we call snail mail "snail mail"? So by default mail will refer to email?

meaning nouns connotation compounds

RegDwight

Zizi, let me make this clear: you don't get to welcome new users with a "For God's sake", or a LMGTFY link.

zizi

1:01 PM

I really read them, the only thing i said was "For God's sake, first Google your problem"

Robusto

@Fx — It's an extension of this:

Mar 22 at 12:55, by Robusto

GAFT = Get A Frickin' Thesaurus ... except without the euphemism.

OD = "or Dictionary"

zizi

only cause they are new users? you act like you want to have more votes for revolution

and that link was the complete answer of question

RegDwight

I have no idea what the revolution part is about, but as to the rest, yes, newbies should be treated differently and offered guidance.

@zizi Actually, I have read the article and I don't think it answers the question.

zizi

ok

RegDwight

Certainly not the "by default mail will refer to email?" part.

Again, it's perfectly okay not to like a question. Downvote it, close-vote it, flag for mod attention, whatever. But do try to offer the OP guidance, or fix the problems yourself.

And of course, if a 10k user posts something stupid like "what does 'dog' mean?", then it could be justified to get a bit snarky, because at 10k he really should know better.

Robusto

1:08 PM

Hullo, Mr. Now-Elevated-to-Equality-With-American-Mods Russian saboteur and/or fifth-columnist and/or Soviet spy.

RegDwight

Live long and prosper, you capitalizationist.

Robusto

AND PROUD OF IT!

The proletariat is all lower-case anyway.

RegDwight

hoi polloi

JSBangs

that's what i keep saying

Robusto

I know, right?

I'm sure the word pollution comes from polloi. It makes so much sense.

JSBangs

1:10 PM

polloition

Robusto

ZOMG! The missing link!

That alone could be worth a dissertation or two.

F'x

@zizi which is not very welcoming

@zizi: I understand the annoyance at such questions, but I think there are three acceptable behaviours:
- write a nice comment about the site's rules and scope, and general references like that
- think it's inappropriate here, don't have the patience to write something nice, vote to close
- think it's annoying, but not inappropriate: vote down, maybe add (nice) comment to say why

RegDwight

The thing is, regulars to this site have all the right in the world to think "For God's sake, I'm sick and tired of this". In fact, after seeing the 200th Oxford-comma question you pretty much have no other choice than to think "Oh puhleeeeeez". But the newbie doesn't have that background information about you. All he sees is the comment you leave. If it reads "screw you", that will be his first impression of you and the site.

8

Robusto

And you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

JSBangs

@RegDwight +1. also, a plain old "exact dup" or "general reference" vote should be fine

RegDwight

1:19 PM

@Robusto Exactly.

JSBangs

(assuming that you have close-vote privileges, which it looks like you @zizi don't. but you can always flag for the mods.)

RegDwight

@Robusto There's a somewhat related saying in Russian, "Слово — не воробей, вылетит — не поймаешь." A word is not a sparrow; once it's out, you can't catch it.

That's why even deleting a comment doesn't completely undo the damage.

Robusto

1:37 PM

That's a good one. I got as far as Слово in my translation. :)

What happened to the starred posts in chat?

JSBangs

i saw them disappear when I starred @RegDwight's post at 21m ago

maybe it doesn't like long-ish starred comments?

RegDwight

Yeah, same here, I had to relog.

Now they're there again.

Robusto

@JSBangs — Long comments get truncated anyway.

Refresh and back in business.

RegDwight

@Robusto I have quoted another Russian saying on that question.

english.stackexchange.com/questions/24435/…

I'm on a roll.

Robusto

Is it a roll or an actual bagel?

RegDwight

1:41 PM

I could tell you, but I have to charge.

Robusto

My work gives free bagels. Forget it.

Besides, I thought everything was free in Soviet Workers Paradise.

JSBangs

i'd like a free bagel. all i get is free coffee and sodas

RegDwight

That's a nice cocktail.

JSBangs

doesn't everyone love a good Mt. Dew and Starbucks mixer?

Robusto

Uh, that's not a tail.

RegDwight

1:44 PM

We used to have free chips and chocolates, now it's more like fruits and vegetables. And lo and behold, noöne complains.

Robusto

Caffeine just keeps me awake in meetings.

JSBangs

@RegDwight do you work at Google?

RegDwight

Of course. Where else.

Robusto

If a problem is really interesting it keeps me awake all by itself.

JSBangs

i remember reading a while ago about google doing that switch.

RegDwight

1:45 PM

What is that Google people keep telling me about? I only know Yandex and Rambler.

JSBangs

and here i have to bring my own fruits and vegetables to work

zizi

@Fx If I don't have ability to write nice messages?

Robusto

@zizi: Come on, get on the right side of this thing. Please.

►

zizi

I'll think about it

right side means the moderator?

Robusto

Right side means err on the side of politeness.

zizi

1:51 PM

oh please, I cannot be anything else, I am always polite, people call me God of politeness

RegDwight

More like desert flower.

zizi

theory : everything that the moderator says is not correct , use your mind sometimes

maybe you can hardly call me aggressive, but impolite?

Robusto

I sense that English is not your first language.

zizi

what the hell are native speakers doing here

I got the impression that you enjoy to prove you're stronger

Kosmonaut

Everyone is a native speaker of something.

zizi

1:57 PM

we're talking about English here

JSBangs

@Kosmonaut <pedantic> not everyone </pedantic>

RegDwight

@Kosmonaut Except the French, as theirs ain't a language.

And them Russians, too.

And those Estonians!

Kosmonaut

@JSBangs What, you mean like feral children and people with severe cognitive disorders?

And Arnold Schwarzenegger?

JSBangs

@Kosmonaut yes and yes.

Kosmonaut

Fair enough :)

@zizi There are approximately 7000 users on this site. Almost every single person is able to understand what is polite and respectful, and what is not. Every once in a while, someone appears who does not understand this, but it is less than even 0.01% of all users. So, I am not concerned that the views of the moderators regarding politeness are extreme, or that they are difficult to adhere to.

zizi

2:10 PM

Let's kill zizi

@Kosmonaut I bet you don't even read a short comment of mine, but you have your own opinion and its JUST your opinion

Kosmonaut

What does that mean?

Robusto

@Kosmonaut — Hey, Arnold speaks a version of Austro-English that people like you should be studying!

It will be da new ting.

Wait, that's Jamaican. Damn, I can't do an Arnold accent in chat.

Kosmonaut

@Robusto You need "r" so that you can say "it's not a tumah!" Then we know it's Arnold.

zizi

@Robusto YOU BLOCKHEAD

brilliant

Hello all!!! Typhoon was coming to Taiwan just 5 hours ago and then, sadly, it turned to Japan. Again Taiwan is put off by typhoon. Again I'll have to work tomorrow. :( :)

RegDwight

2:20 PM

You sound almost like our storm-chaser @Vitaly.

Why are Russians so obsessed with storms?

zizi

seems you are 102 years old and I'll speak English as fluent as you one day, no worries

RegDwight

Congratulations on your future fluency, Zizi, but is there a point you are trying to make right here right now?

brilliant

@RegDwight :) No, it's just that in Taiwan you don't have to work if typhoon is around.

RegDwight

In Soviet Taiwan, storm chases you!

brilliant

:) :) Finally, having been bombarded by this one and other similar sayings here on this chat, I slowly get to understand how it is entertaining. :)

zizi

2:25 PM

making point is your duty

Robusto

@RegDwight — You guys are still sore over losing Red China.

@Kosmonaut — I still want to see Arnold stretch his role selection. I'm thinking he's ready for Hamlet. "To be oah not to be! Dat is da kvestion!"

He'd do the stabbing scenes well.

RegDwight

I have my red china right here.

Cerberus

2:42 PM

Is that china, or just plain crockery?

RegDwight

China, if Google Images is to be believed.

google.com/…

Cerberus

Fine. This actually makes me wonder whether china or porcelain is more common. I'd say china is used in daily speech, for a collection of objects, as in "could you please fetch the good china from the attic, dear?", whereas porcelain is rather used to indicate the material?

RegDwight

2

Q: What's the difference between 'china' and 'porcelain'?

What's the difference between 'china' and 'porcelain'? Thanks.

word-choice differences nouns

Cerberus

Ahh... I keep forgetting about the main site and all.

Hmm the answers aren't entirely clear, but they seem to agree with me...

brilliant

@RegDwight So Vitaly is also Russian, right?

RegDwight

2:53 PM

Vitaly, Moscow, Russia

476 10

differences word-choice etymology british-english slang grammatical-number spelling

brilliant

I see.

@RegDwight Perhaps, I am taking some risk of offending you by this, but I think there is no such saying (precisely as you have used it there) in Russian. I mean, this saying does exist in Russian, but not in that form that you have brought up as an example.

At least, I've never heard it spoken in that way. In that way it sounds a too philosophical. It is very common, however, when we refer to some event and say something like " That was a spoon of tar in our barrel of honey" or "Yet he added a spoon of tar to the barrel of honey in the end by saying that..."

*sounds too philosophical

RegDwight

3:10 PM

No offense taken. I have consciously adapted the saying to my needs.

I was making a point.

It should be pretty obvious to everyone what I had in mind.

A dissertation about Russian wouldn't have helped anyone.

I have to stay focused.

Robusto

@RegDwight — When have you ever been focused? Come on, 'fess up.

RegDwight

That was a strong image, and I wanted to use it. So put it in your pipe and smoke it.

Robusto

I have better things to put in my pipe than your images, strong though they may be.

brilliant

@RegDwight I agree about a dissertation. :) Glad you are not offended.

Robusto

@brilliant — If @RegDwight were offended, you'd know it. There would be solid chunk of Polonium-210 in your tea.

RegDwight

3:17 PM

You don't get to know about Polonuim-210 in your tea.

That's not how it works.

brilliant

@Robusto :)

Robusto

@RegDwight — Well, you know about it eventually.

That reminds me: when taking tea with @RegDwight, it's a good idea to take along a Geiger counter.

RegDwight

Speaking of Polonium, I must do some shopping.

So I'll be leaving in half an hour or so.

Robusto

Hmmm ...

Robusto

3:38 PM

0

Q: General Purpose Antonym for "Ago"

I'm refactoring a function I had to show relative dates like StackExchange does, eg.: relative unit of time (second/minute/hour/day/week/month/year)[s] (ago/from now) However, I started wondering if the expression "from now" is the most logical / appropriate for general purpose futuristic...

antonyms

My dog is choking again, I think.

I'm fine.

@Cerberus — It takes six hands to choke you properly.

Cerberus

Absolutely, and it wouldn't hurt if you also brought a club and a lion skin.

Robusto

You'd like to see me in a lion skin, wouldn't you?

Cerberus

3:43 PM

On the contrary! I value my honour. Once was enough. Oh, wait, you're not Hercules?

Robusto

No. And Hercules was into Iolaus anyway, so no lying.

Cerberus

I suspect that our minds are on different tracks... but you may be right about Iolaus; I don't remember.

I lost my dear friend to that couple.

Could you say, in some dialect / archaically, "I had my brother dead from [cause x]"? I don't think so, but it would be nice.

Robusto

No. That would be very odd.

With different punctuation it might work.

"I had my brother, dead from x ..."

Cerberus

Yeah... that's just not the kind of "having" I was looking for.

Robusto

What are you trying to say, exactly?

Cerberus

3:53 PM

I was exploring the double-object use of "to have", inspired by a Dutch saying.

Robusto

You could say "I had my brother killed."

Cerberus

"Ik heb een broertje dood aan x", which would be impossible if it weren't an old expression.

@Robusto Ah, yes, that's what I was thinking of.

It is funny, because the use of "have" in "I have seen him" has supposedly evolved just from that usage.

It can already be seen in Latin.

I have x in my hand -> I have him inprisoned -> I had him killed -> I have killed him.

P.S. I don't know why I changed tenses, but it sounded better that way.

Robusto

Holland sounds like a brutal country. Three-headed doggies putting out contracts on their brothers ... Sounds like Hades would be a vacation by comparison.

Cerberus

4:12 PM

It doesn't mean "I had my brother killed": it means "I had a brother and he died from x"... I was trying to find a similar construction in English, but some sense of activeness always seem to creep in.

Robusto

Then what I said first would work. "I had a brother, dead from typhus."

Cerberus

Your "my" added a subtle sexual connotation, or is that just me?

RegDwight

I had a brother die from typhus.

Cerberus

Seriously?

RegDwight

9.5 million hits for "I had a * die from *".

Cerberus

4:16 PM

But yeah that is actually the right sense of "have".

zizi

I don't have any brothers

Cerberus

Yay German Google!

Robusto

@RegDwight — Yes, this would work. Is that what you're aiming at, @Cerberus?

It isn't really clear what you were getting at.

RegDwight

Well, apart from dood in his original example not being an infinitive.

Cerberus

@Robusto Actually I wasn't really looking for anything specific, just exploring the object-complement properties of "have"; my apologies.

@RegDwight Yeah it isn't a past participle, which would be most interesting, if such existed; but it is still quite useful in my explorations. What's also interesting is that this have + infinitive seems to be restricted to certain types of verbs, but I'm not sure how to define these restrictions.

I have a dog dying from typhus: not at all unusual, but using have in the sense of possessing this dog. I have a dog die from typhus: impossible because of present simple.

zizi

5:04 PM

@RegDwight I just read some of your useful comments, yes that's true , sorry

Robusto

5:50 PM

@Cerberus — Don't tease me, bro. I only respond to serious emergencies with my advice on English.

F'x

7:35 PM

“earned today: Populist” — I kinda like that :)

RegDwight

There's an all-new badge, Vox Populi.

F'x

@RegDwight not so shiny :)

RegDwight

Yeah, I sure as pie won't be trying to get it on purpose.

I could have used it during public beta, when I first came to this site and had to catch up with voting on stuff that was already there.

F'x

@RegDwight and is it not retroactive, apparently

RegDwight

Well, it can't possibly be.

How can you assign a badge for voting 40 times retroactively, if it wasn't possible to vote more than 30 times?

F'x

7:48 PM

@RegDwight oh, the bar was heightened?

probably part of the efforts to help people vote more; probably misguided

RegDwight

It's much more complicated than that.

You now have two pools of votes.

30 votes as previously, plus 10 votes for questions only on top of that.

Stack Overflow Blog: Vote For This Question or The Kitten Gets It

Posted by Jeff Atwood on May 6th, 2011

When the wordpress.stackexchange.com community asked Why are questions not being voted on …

I have noticed a trend that questions (even good ones) that have multiple answers are not being voted on.

Out of our 5,550 questions only 41% have at least 1 vote which leaves around 3,000 with 0 votes and a few hundred with negative votes.

I had a strong sense of déjà vu all over again.

One of the longest running concerns in Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange history is Why aren’t people voting for questions? a question originally posed on Stack Overflow on August 5, 2008 — long, long before we used UserVoice for this sort of thing. At that point, meta.stackoverflow wasn’t even a glint in anyone’s eye, much less Area 51 or the WordPress Stack Exchange. …

Read thoroughly. Lots of info in there. Lots of comments, too.

Vitaly

Салютs are cool. There are always pretty girls around.

Besides, the English word for салют sucks.

RegDwight

You're doing it wrong. When you watch салют, you are not supposed to look at the people around you, you are supposed to look at the sky.

Vitaly

Actually, I am doing it right. Burning rags are not as interesting as cute girls. Also, not as interesting as taking the anthropological approach in general.

RegDwight

To each his own.

Cute girls are around all the time. Fireworks are not.

Vitaly

7:55 PM

Cute girls watching салютs are not around all the time either.

RegDwight

That's a corollary.

Robusto

8:33 PM

@RegDwight What is салют ?

RegDwight

Fireworks or gun salute.

Robusto

Oh, salute.

I kept anglicizing. Was thinking kalyoot. Not really paying close enough attention.

zizi

how you congratulate someone's birthday, virtually?

RegDwight

Apr 11 at 17:43, by RegDwight

zizi

is that my answer?

um

RegDwight

8:44 PM

Not good?

zizi

very good

I'm on serous mode btw

RegDwight

So am I.

That card was actually used to congratulate someone here.

And it's as virtual as it gets.

zizi

I can understand English hardly, you want me to understand regish?

sending a card is very normal

RegDwight

I never said I wanted you to understand regish.

zizi

some surprising way please

RegDwight

8:48 PM

Honestly. I have never said that.

@zizi Jump out from behind a tree and shout "Waaaaah", and wiggle your arms around, wildly.

zizi

you don't have to say everything, i can see it in your eyes

from a virtual tree or i have to shout virtually?

RegDwight

Well, frankly, if sending a card in regish isn't surprising enough, then I don't know what is.

zizi

wow, 31

i thought of 51.9

Martha

9:04 PM

Dammit, @Fx beat me to the Vox Populi badge.

RegDwight

Wow, you found 40 stuffs to vote on just like that? Mad skillz.

Martha

I just went through and upvoted questions I had answered, but neglected to upvote. (Well, except for a few which were really bad questions, notwithstanding my -excellent as always- answer.)

RegDwight

I wonder how much of that will end up under "suspicious voting patterns". :P

Martha

I don't see how any of it could look suspicious to a program that tries to detect targeted voting.

I mean, the questions were asked by a whole bunch of different people.

RegDwight

Oh, and BTW, votes = upvotes and downvotes. People like to forget that.

Martha

9:10 PM

Apropos, what is the approved way to @-mention someone with an apostrophe in his name?

RegDwight

You mean @Fx?

Martha

Oh, I guess @Fx's sudden presence among us has answered that question. :)

F'x

well, I got no notification from your mentions, which means you f@iled

Martha

Ok, so it doesn't answer the question.

F'x

what does the autocompletion suggest when you type @F?

Martha

9:11 PM

I'm not sure there is a way to @-mention you properly.

RegDwight

Well, @Fx is what the system offers. It's just too short. Three characters minimum.

Martha

The autocomplete suggests Fx.

RegDwight

I am not jinxing that.

F'x

does @F'x work?

Martha

Does this get your chat to beep at you: @F'x?

RegDwight

9:12 PM

Jinx!

@Martha no

Jinxes all around.

Meta-jinx!

You cannot summon me, mortals!

Martha

So, like I said,

1 min ago, by Martha

I'm not sure there is a way to @-mention you properly.

RegDwight

9:13 PM

Yeah, right. Like it has never worked.

@Martha +1™

@fx Eat this.

how?

As if I'm telling you.

Mad skillz, my dear. Mad skillz.

That's a mod-only super-ping.

F'x

@RegDwight too bad, cause it doesn't even hurt!

RegDwight

9:16 PM

It's not a super-kill, it's just a super-ping.

F'x

talking of super-kill and weak superpowers, come on!

0

Q: What's the comparative for the word "modern"?

What's the comparative for the word modern?

adjectives comparative

RegDwight

I am waiting for it to get closed as general reference.

F'x

why do we have to wait hours for it to gather the close votes, while you already have been there, done that, and gotten the T-shirt?

RegDwight

Because for the time being, I'm not touching that close reason with a ten-foot pole.

I have explained my reasons a zillion times, here in chat, on meta, and IIRC even in my mod nomination.

F'x

@RegDwight I agree that it could look bad coming from someone with a ♦

but in that case, it's also a dupe!

RegDwight

9:18 PM

Well, kinda.

F'x

the most voted (and accepted) answer to the question you linked to is generic enough to answer the question perfectly

RegDwight

It's more of a dupe of that other question that got merged into that one.

F'x

anyway, if you don't close it now, I'll answer it by copy-pasting; now, which is worse?

RegDwight

I have deleted one copy-paste answer today, I can do it again. :P

F'x

but you get more work, more bad comments, more bad answers, just by not closing it

zizi

9:21 PM

professional deletatiorationingu

F'x

@zizi how's that game played?

RegDwight

@Fx Possibly, but not yet. I have to strike a balance.

F'x

@RegDwight don't simply strike the balance; nuke it!

RegDwight

We have almost fifty 3k users now. I can't be closing questions unilaterally. That trains the community to be lazy. But if you can't count on Super Reg to close everything, that's when the site starts really working as intended.

F'x

RegDwight ♦, Kosmonaut ♦ and Nohat ♦ — an allegory of EL&U moderation

zizi

9:24 PM

be more respectful of new users

RegDwight

@Fx Wrong image.

Mr. Disappointment

Awwwesome!

RegDwight

This is RegDwight♦, Kosmonaut♦, and Nohat♦.

Mr. Disappointment

Well, then, hey gang.

zizi

all 3 are men?

that's why the site sucks

RegDwight

9:26 PM

One is a Klingon.

Vitaly

why am I getting ads in Arabic in my gmail? o.o

RegDwight

@zizi Look, zizi, if you don't like this place, nobody's coercing you into staying. Seriously. We are very upfront about this. There are tens of billions of other sites on the Internet.

F'x

@Vitaly a more annoying (and probably related) question is: why is the NSA now reading through your email?

zizi

@RegDwight calm down, i was joking, drink a glass of water, nothing happened, i am still here

F'x

@zizi sorry, but that's a poor joke

— over and out

zizi

9:30 PM

but as opposed to your jokes?

hey, stop teasing me .. @all 23900439874598743 users

RegDwight

More like 7954.

zizi

that's 7954 + Regdwight

RegDwight

No, that's 7954 including RegDwight.

zizi

um

Alain Pannetier

10:04 PM

Good evening everyone

just catching up with 3 days of chat.

RegDwight

10:17 PM

Happy catching up, I have to go. Night everyone.

Alain Pannetier

Night then !

yesterday, by Orbling

I think the BBC have nine channels here. Only one HD.

@Orbling, I thought I'd just mention this in case you're interested.

In the UK, if you use a satellite dish, you can receive 2 HD channels from the BBC.

The "old" BBC HD + the newer BBC 1 HD.

The regional programs are skipped bit that's only a few minutes of regional news.

I mean for BBC one of course.

Both channels featuring very interesting documentaries in prime time.

Alain Pannetier

10:50 PM

And for any one else also interested, it's probably worth adding that the signal is also quite good outside the British Isles. In other words, although the transmitter beams at the UK it is nonetheless easy to catch in neighbouring countries. The sat is Eutelsat 28.5 East. An easy and entertaining way to improve one's English.

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