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1:00 PM
@Mitch We have no antelope.
 
@KitFox holy crap...you actually have to -know- something to answer these things.
 
You can do it. I gave you the spec.
 
@tchrist did we ever? because that would make the song kind of stupid.
 
You just have to think a little.
 
@KitFox argh argh argh. dammit..all this thinking.
really?
ok no hints.
 
1:01 PM
Do you want me to list the three differences again?
 
Hell...there's no symmetry (or radial) when you cut the root in two.
no.
also I can't use google..too easy.
 
you did not list 3 differences. you just thought them. I can't do that!
 
user19161
@Mitch Haha, my resolution is not to cast a single downvote this time on both my accounts. And I no longer need to keep my rep at a multiple of 5.
 
1:03 PM
If you list them it will be too obvious.
 
@Mitch Not differences. I listed the way to mark a monocot.
Or three monocot traits, I should say.
 
socarrots are obviously related to parsnips, rutabgas and turnips, but maybe not beets...
but I'm looking at a carrot in my head (I know! it hurts!)... and I only see well,,, a carrot. It's leaves are pretty nondescript (in my head).
 
It's not about obvious. It's methodical.
 
oh...parallel veins...I don't see any on the carrot in my head...
 
1. Do you know its symmetry? No.
 
1:05 PM
> Antelope are not a cladistic or taxonomically defined group. The term is used loosely to describe all members of the family Bovidae that do not fall under the category of sheep, cattle, or goats. Usually, all species of the Alcelaphinae, Antilopinae, Hippotraginae, Reduncinae, Cephalophinae, many Bovinae, the grey rhebok, and the impala are called antelopes.
 
something about vascularization, but I thought that was the veins too...
 
2. Does in have parallel veins on its leaves? I don't know.
 
Nor antilocaprids.
 
@tchrist camels?
rhinos?
 
3. Are the root veins scattered?
 
1:06 PM
> Camelids are even-toed ungulates: they are classified in the order Artiodactyla, along with pigs, hippopotamus, deer, giraffes, cattle, goats, antelope, and many others.
 
Hmm. If you picture a cut up carrot, you can probably figure that one out.
 
scattered...right you used some fancy term for that. but anyway, I see no rot veins at all...unless they are kinda random which could mean scattered.
 
@KitFox I think only the ginko has parallel veins. All other modern species have brachiated (?) veins.
 
Pronghorn are not Bovidae.
 
@KitFox the carrot root resembles mostly a tree trunk for me (except for bark) and inner core and a think outer layer...that's about it.
 
1:08 PM
@Robusto Maybe for trees.
@Mitch Exactly. Concentric rings. It's organized, not scattered.
 
Aren't carrot veins perpendicular along its length?
in a ring
 
user19161
I saw a huge tree by the road. It was HUGE.
 
There is the dark inner part and a lighter outer ring. Um...pith and phloem, maybe? I'll look.
But the rings mean it is a dicot.
In vascular plants, phloem is the living tissue that carries organic nutrients (known as photosynthate), in particular, sucrose, a sugar, to all parts of the plant where needed. In trees, the phloem is the innermost layer of the bark, hence the name, derived from the Greek word (phloos) meaning "bark". The phloem is concerned mainly with the transport of soluble organic material made during photosynthesis. This is called translocation. Structure [[Image:Stem-cross-section2.jpg|thumb|Multiple cross-sections of a stem showing phloem and companion cells]] Phloem tissue consists of: cond...
 
user19161
Also, I just learnt about purple carrots.
 
It's like I remember something.
 
1:11 PM
@Mitch Rhinos are perissodactyls like horses and tapirs, not artiodactyls like sheep and goats.
 
@KitFox I forgot the question...so that makes them dicots?
 
@Mitch Yes.
Mmm, carrots.
 
user19161
Look at this website. Then type "sentence combining" into a browser search window and hit the ENTER key. — Bill Franke 5 hours ago
 
Palm trees are monocots. Maple trees are dicots.
 
user19161
That comment above is a little too sarcastic. =)
 
1:12 PM
@tchrist I thought tapirs were closer to pigs. also I thought hippos were closer to pigs.
@JasperLoy Bill has been a little touchy this morning.
 
user19161
@Mitch He needs someone to touch him, lol.
 
There is something about tree root systems too. Conifers have taproots...?Now that's going to bug me. It's not conifers. More like monocot trees or something.
 
@JasperLoy !!
well played!
 
user19161
@Mitch To touch his heart, of course, not his ...
 
There are more vulgar ways of saying that.
 
1:15 PM
@JasperLoy Feet?
 
user19161
@KitFox I once saw a documentary about how in a certain part of the world, the only part of your friend's wife you could not look at was the feet.
 
@JasperLoy people imply that '...', but I just don't see that. One can be a jerk (or uptight) (and often that happens) without the sex thing being involved.
@KitFox flagged
@JasperLoy could explain a lot of fetishes though.
 
user19161
@Mitch I think licking feet is not hygienic.
 
Oops. That link kind of bungles the self-deprecatory joke.
There.
Damn. Now it looks like I am referring to fetishes.
I'll have to deprecate later.
 
Pigs and pronghorn and peccaries and hippos are artiodactyls, so even-toed. Rhinos and tapirs and horses are perissodactyls, so odd-toed. Odd and even are different things, @Mitch.
 
1:17 PM
@JasperLoy it's probably good for the feet.
 
> Perissodactyls were the dominant group of large terrestrial browsers right through the Oligocene. However, the rise of grasses in the Miocene (about 20 Mya) saw a major change: the even-toed ungulates with their more complex stomachs were better able to adapt to a coarse, low-nutrition diet, and soon rose to prominence.
> Nevertheless, many odd-toed species survived and prospered until the late Pleistocene (about 10,000 years ago), when they faced the pressure of human hunting and habitat change.
 
@KitFox deleted too fast for a clever retort.
 
15 mins ago, by tchrist
user image
 
@tchrist wait...what? Not mod 1.
 
user19161
How has ELU changed after ELL?
 
1:19 PM
Tapirs and peccaries are differently toed.
 
@tchrist don't the even ones have a little vestigial odd extra toe on their 'wrist'?
 
pfft, lots of things are different than toads.
 
@JasperLoy we ROCK!
 
A peccary is the collective noun for private investigators.
 
By 'we' I mean both ELU and ELL. It's all fun.
 
user19161
1:20 PM
@Mitch Ah, I think combining both would be more fun!
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 again, a lot of things are like toads.
@JasperLoy ha ha, ELU would just accept everything!
 
> The largest perissodactyl, an Asian rhinoceros called Paraceratherium, reached 15 tonnes (17 tons), more than twice the weight of an elephant.
 
@tchrist isn't it a peckery?
 
user19161
@Mitch Yes, that was what I wanted, but not Jeff.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 no no not a forest dwelling mini perrisodactyl, but a forest dwelling large rodent.
 
1:24 PM
Hm, they’ve proposed the clade Euungulata (yes, two u’s) to comprise Artiodactyls, Perissodactyls, and Cetaceans. They used to think the odd- and even-toed ungulates composed a clade, then they didn’t, and now they do again.
Euungulata ("true ungulates") is a proposed clade of mammals within Laurasiatheria, consisting of the following orders and their common ancestors: * Perissodactyla * Cetacea * Artiodactyla It is based on evidence from molecular phylogenetics. Within Euungulata, Cetacea and Artiodactyla form the clade Cetartiodactyla. }} }} }} There is still uncertainty regarding the placement of Perissodactyla within the overall Laurasiatheria tree; an alternate grouping of Perissodactyla with Ferae has been proposed as the clade Zooamata. References
 
@Mitch R.O.U.S.es?
 
clades are fun. systematization like that is one of the primary...
 
raises eyebrow
 
symptoms of autism-spectrum disorder!
 
1:27 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 what? no..._R.I.C.E.
 
> According to recent studies (reflected in the diagram below), the closest relatives of Ferae are Perissodactyla (horses, tapirs and rhinos) and Cetartiodactyla (which combines Artiodactyla--camels, pigs, ruminants and hippos—with Cetacea--whales and dolphins).
 
user19161
Debian 7 might be released this weekend...
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 in the dark, that's kinda cute.
 
I have a feeling that everyone in this room is actually having a conversation only with themselves.
@Mitch Rodents Of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist.
 
I've suddenly gotten this feeling that I'm only talking to myself. Have I thought that before?
 
1:28 PM
@Mitch Yes
 
user19161
@Mitch I am listening...
 
Apr 17 at 16:02, by Mitch
Or that little single point guy in 'Flatland'.
 
user19161
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That is what this chat is for.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 "It's so wonderful that I can come up with such self reflective affirmations!" (or the flatland dude said something like that)
 
Oh, microbats and megabats are cousins again. I never believed in flying monkeys.
> More recently, the flying primates hypothesis was rejected when scientists compared the DNA of bats to that of primates. These genetic studies support the monophyly of bats.
 
1:31 PM
I believe.
 
> The implication that bats are diphyletic has been fiercely disputed by many zoologists, not only based on the unlikelihood that wings would have evolved twice in mammals, but also on biochemical studies of molecular evolution, which indicate that bats are monophyletic.
 
@tchrist yeah that was the last I heard that the closest 'thing' to primates were the bats.
 
wait, so wings won't evolve twice in mammals? dammit, I was so hoping to evolve a pair of wings for myself. In fact I was discussing this just yesterday with my daughter.
She very wisely laughed at me and said "That isn't how it works!"
 
@Mitch This is now disproven.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Nice.
echolocates coffee cup
Now that's useful.
 
1:34 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 !! hilarious. 'You're so dumb, Dad! Everyone knows that...'
 
I have this sudden crazy idea that I should leave work, and go home and paint the bathroom.
 
@Mitch She's been calling people dumb since before she could talk.
 
@KitFox You're right.
That's crazy.
 
But then what? I could prime two walls in the bedroom, maybe.
 
You'll just have to paint the bathroom again. Just wait until next time.
 
1:35 PM
@KitFox paint it the way semiconductor engineers do. First you open a paint can in the middle of the room, then put it in a paint shaker and turn it on. The whole room will be covered in paint. Then you tape off the areas you want to keep painted, and put a paint solvent in the paint shaker.
@Mitch That's the same excuse kids give for not making their beds.
 
@KitFox But good point, the best time to get things done at home is during work time.
 
No, the bathroom isn't painted the first time yet.
 
@Mitch Primates like rodents and bunnies and tree-shrews now go under Euarchontoglires. Horses and shrews and pigs and whales and bats and cats but not rats go under Laurasiatheria. Elephants and elephant shrews and manatees and aardvarks go under Afrotheria.
 
Nor is it exactly a room yet.
 
It seems the various things we call shrews are nothing like one another.
 
1:36 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 s/kids/people...wait...you make your bed?
 
Epitherians comprise all the placental mammals except the Xenarthra. They are primarily characterized by having a stirrup-shaped stapes in the middle ear, which allows for passage of a blood vessel. This is in contrast to the column-shaped stapes found in marsupials, monotremes, and xenarthrans. They are also characterized by having a shorter fibula relative to the tibia. Epitheria — like Xenarthra and Afrotheria — originated after the K-Pg boundary , with the placental diversification occurring within the first hundred thousand years after the K-Pg event and the first modern pl...
 
I don't make my bed but maybe once a month.
 
@Mitch yes. I prefer a tidy look. Ideally guests could drop into my house at any moment and they wouldnt' know that they were unexpected.
 
Hmm, I could wash the sheets too.
 
@KitFox reminder to put door on bathroom
 
1:37 PM
@Mitch Have to put the wall up first.
I could probably get a lot of little things done at home. I bet that would reduce my stress level.
 
@KitFox imagines toilet in main living area... also imagines all sorts of constipatory psychological distresses
 
It's in the hallway, which is now closed off on one end.
It's around the corner now too, so a little bit of privacy. Way more than when it was at the bottom of the stairs.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 who are you expecting, the queen of England? I'm betting she doesn't make her bed.
 
@Mitch I'm not expecting anyone. well, today I'm expecting the guy from the city to come install a new water meter. Actually I expected him at 8.
but he's not going into the bedrooms unless this day turns out to be way more interesting than planned.
2
 
He will certainly judge you on the neatness of your bedclothes.
My husband forwarded me an email that I sent him in 2004.
 
1:40 PM
@KitFox at least he followed up.
 
@KitFox did he forward a new copy, or the same old yellowed and faded one from a decade ago?
 
u guys r funneh.
 
was it a good forward, at least?
 
If only cats could really talk like that.
on second thought, then it wouldn't be funny.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It was one that I sometimes reflect on. It was much better than I remembered it.
 
1:45 PM
@KitFox "I'll give you some tuna". I'm kinda crying now.
 
@KitFox that's like my kids in the morning, on school days.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Both my boys get up at around 6. The youngest sleeps until 8 sometimes though.
 
@KitFox on weekends they get up earlier.
 
OK, so I think I'll leave after lunch.
 
well, my youngest can sleep in sometimes. one day he slept until 10!
 
1:57 PM
I'll spend the time making it look like I did something today.
 
and I slept until 9:30, when my daughter came in and woke me up "Dad! I'm so HUNGRY!"
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Wow. Was he sick?
 
@KitFox nope
strange thing: lately he has become super contrary. You want him to do something, anything, he refuses.
 
I can't believe I used to sleep that late, ever.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Very good suggestions.
 
1:58 PM
And flys into wicked tantrums at the slightest provocation.
 
Although I would go further...
 
I remember when 11 was breakfast time.
My littlest is really contrary too.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How old is he again? Terrible twos?
 
And he has this annoying habit of saying things like "Yes, but I don't."
 
tries not to laugh
 
1:59 PM
So you might say "Do you want mac n cheese for lunch?" "Yes...I don't."
Or "No, but I do."
And he also seems to have difficulty with verb tenses.
 
@Cerberus he just turned 3.
 
Is his sister bossy?
 
@KitFox mine is pretty good except with the strong verbs. He insists that it's "I runned" not "I ran"
 
Our two have started having more conflicts lately.
 
@KitFox gods yes.
The earliest complete sentence I can remember my daughter speaking is "Papa! You sit down there!"
 
2:04 PM
I think they are both tired of the other. The little one wants to do stuff, the big one wants to be in charge, etc.
 
She was telling her grandfather which seat at the dinner table he had to take.
@KitFox they are not in daycare, right?
 
Well...etiquette is harder than interjection.
 
@KitFox heh. It was definitely a command.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The eldest is in pre-K, the youngest goes twice a week to half a day care.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Finn is like that too.
 
@KitFox oh, so they do get out and socialize with other kids quite a bit then.
 
2:05 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh yeah.
Were you here for my bragging yesterday?
 
@KitFox probably not.
 
Apparently the eldest is a much sought after playdate.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 We got his school readiness assessment.
It was glowing.
I was very proud.
He got "skill mastery" in all categories except for two gross motor skills.
 
@KitFox you have school readiness assessments?
 
And his teachers described him as a kind friend.
 
2:08 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 This school does. It's a new thing for them.
They also said they thought he would be very successful in school next year, which is really good to hear.
 
@KitFox don't they just take any kids that are whatever the minimum age is?
@KitFox that's good
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, but not everyone sends their kid at 5. Some wait.
My best friend is actually not putting her son in the 3 year old program this year, so he and my littlest won't be in school together.
Which is a real bummer.
But he's not ready yet.
 
@KitFox ah. hm. well, in Ontario, school starts at 4 (junior kindergarten) and I think almost everyone sends their kids.
 
The readiness measures include things like ability to separate from caregivers and stuff like that.
 
@KitFox I used to get bummed by that, but they make friends easily at this age, so I don't think it's a problem.
 
2:10 PM
Well, her two youngest are eight weeks younger than my boys.
And the eldest and her eldest boy are tight.
So to have the other two get along as well would be really great.
 
@KitFox Yay!
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm sounds similar...I'm sure it will pass eventually! How do you deal with the tantra? Send him to his room?
Or doesn't that work with young children?
 
ali
hello
 
Time for sauna!
 
Hi!
 
user19161
2:26 PM
@JohanLarsson WOW!!!
 
Goddamn, do I ever hate "on-hold" music ...
 
@Cerberus I usually try to ignore it or give him a time-out. yesterday I sent him to bed early. I think he didn't believe me that I was going to follow through with it.
After crying in his bed for about 20 minutes he said "Daddy I'm ready to go downstairs now" and I was like "um, nope."
but then he fell asleep and slept the whole night and woke up grinning and everything was good until it was time to leave, at which point he didn't want to put on his shoes and he had a meltdown.
And the challenge for me is that his sister was always at least 5% reasonable. Even in the most melted-down meltdown she had her ears open and was able to listen to me talking to her and cajoling/threatening/whatever. I have talked her out of dozens of tantrums. Her brother, though, turns his ears off before the tantrum starts and there is nothing to do but let it run its course.
The worst part is that a few weeks ago this behaviour was completely unknown from him. now it's multiple times/day.
 
2:51 PM
@JohanLarsson Oh, popular in Sweden too?
 
user19161
@Mahnax Hey Matthew!
 
@JasperLoy Hi Jasper, how are you?
 
user19161
@Mahnax Haha, I created new accounts, you know right?
 
Ugh. Internet here sucks.
@JasperLoy Really? I didn't know that.
 
user19161
@Mahnax Hehe, I deleted all my accounts a few weeks ago...
 
2:54 PM
@JasperLoy Silly silly.
Why?
 
user19161
@Mahnax Why not? Points don't mean anything. Now I can start afresh and not cast any downvotes.
 
@JasperLoy OK. Fair enough.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Wow, that sucks.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm very annoying indeed. But you're handling it the right way, so there's nothing else you can do. It will pass eventually.
How do you ignore the tantrums?
 
It sounds like he feels out-of-control of his environment. Maybe a little extra instruction on emotions?
 
2:57 PM
Once the tantrum had erupted, I imagine my mother would just grab my arm, and take me to some other room, then leave me there—all without saying a word. The less attention, the better, I think?
@KitFox Yeah I was going to say, have a talk about it, but not during the tantrum.
 
@Cerberus well, I basically don't give him any demands he presents while tantrumming, and I don't bother threatening him with punishments or negotiating rewards, unless I have a time-pressing need to short-circuit the tantrum. It never works anyway.
 
Hi!
 
user19161
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Hi K!
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That sounds good. But do you still look at him and talk to him?
Attention is attention...
 
2:58 PM
@JasperLoy hello Mr. Black!
Hello @cerb!
 
user19161
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I have created brand new accounts, lol!
 
@KitFox yeah, he had a dr's appt a couple weeks ago and the dr basically said he's just trying to assert control. The thing is I feel I'm already encouraging him to make decisions and control his environment. So I dunno. He's never been that self-motivated to do things himself.
@Cerberus yes and no. depends.
 

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