English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

MετάEd

00:38

Don't everybody talk at once.

Cerberus

01:05

talks

MετάEd

01:42

I’ll give you my Oxford comma when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. — MετάEd 22 secs ago

tchrist

@MετάEd Star-whoring again? :)

MετάEd

Of course not. Did it work?

tchrist

Time will tell.

Cerberus

@MετάEd I share your sentiment, but I am no pimp.

MετάEd

@Cerberus I am my own pimp, thankyouverymuch.

Cerberus

01:49

Great.

Such an entrepreneur!

MετάEd

If anybody is going to put a cap in my ass, I want it to be self inflicted.

Cerberus

> A Finnish anti-piracy group has copied—down to the CSS file—the design and layout of The Pirate Bay’s classic pirate ship-themed design. In a statement to TorrentFreak, The Pirate Bay was nonplussed.

> “We are outraged by this behavior,” an anonymous Pirate Bay spokesman told TorrentFreak. “People must understand what is right and wrong. Stealing material like this on the Internet is a threat to economies worldwide. We feel that we must make a statement and therefore we will sue them for copyright infringement.”

Pretty hilarious.

arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/02/…

tchrist

You are kidding, right?

Or somebody else is.

Cerberus

I am kidding?

I'm afraid this is serious.

The confirms it: the Pirate Bay is nuts.

tchrist

How can they sue? Doesn’t that require that the principals be known?

Cerberus

02:06

Possibly.

Or perhaps not.

A lawyer could represent them and sue in their name?

tchrist

Maybe. Probably. I don’t know anything about the Law.

I just read that the Russian meteor briefly outshone the sun. Bet that was freaky.

Cerberus

Sure.

Of it it all depends on distance.

tchrist

I guess. Inverse-square law, or some such.

Cerberus

Yes.

> Apple doesn't want to get drug into the low margins area. They want to be where the money is, not the commodity market.

MετάEd

03:40

@Cerberus Great artists of our time were constantly accused of drug references.

Cerberus

No doubt.

Have you seen this "drug" before?

WMD

03:56

@Cerberus Oddly, I suspect such forms are going to become more and more common.

tchrist

@Cerberus I can never tell with you. You didn’t know that there are people who say drug as the past of drag?

Or are you just scandalized that someone should have written such a thing?

MετάEd

04:11

@tchrist No, no. You're thinking of the stuff at the bottom of the bottle.

Cerberus

@WMD You think so? It is sort of funny...

MετάEd

That's the first move in a game, by the way. Do you know how to play "no, no, not"?

Cerberus

@tchrist I don't remember whether or not I have seen it before, but is certainly unusual.

I don't think we have any move towards irregularising regular verbs in Dutch.

Except ironically.

MετάEd

Dann, stehend unterm Tumtum Baum, Er an-zu-denken-fing.

Robusto

@Cerberus It's redneck American dialect, past tense of drag.

WMD

04:25

@Cerberus I know several children who normally use "brang" and "brung" in place of "brought".

tchrist

@Cerberus Think of it not as deregulating them, but rather as strengthening them.

I snuck in the back gate while they were away and dove into their pool, only to discover too late to turn back that nobody had drug out the dead horse yet.

Cerberus

@Robusto It was obvious what it meant, but I didn't know it was typical of rednecks...

tchrist

Well, stereo-, yes.

Cerberus

@WMD Aww. It sounded a bit childish.

@tchrist C'est pareil.

@tchrist Still, drug sounds far more marginal than the others.

WMD

Yes, but the childish neologisms of today are the established forms of tomorrow.

Cerberus

04:31

Not always!

We shall see.

tchrist

It’s considered non-Standard, yes. The others you can often sneak by with.

WMD

Yes, if they're sufficiently widespread. The one that I just KNOW will become standard is the verb "to verse", which means to play a sporting fixture against. It is a back formation from "versus", which has presumably been misspelt in the speaker's mind.

Cerberus

Right. That's pretty old already!

tchrist

Feb 10 at 1:43, by tchrist

Common Teut.: OE. bring-an, brengean (pa. t. bróhte, pple. bróht), corresp.
to OFris. branga, bringa, OS. brengian, bringan (MDutch brenghen, Dutch
brengen), OHG. bringan (MHG. and mod.G. bringen), Goth.  briggan (=
bringan), pa. t. brâhta, pple. brâhts. Beside the type bring-an, the Saxon
group has also *brangjan, brehook.ngian, brengean, brengan, app. after
þankjan; from bringan, OE. had also a rare strong pa.  pple. brungen (mod.
dial. brung), to which later dialects have added a strong pa. t., so as to

WMD

@Cerberus Pfft. YOU'RE pretty old already.

Cerberus

04:33

Not yet! I still have today, my last as a twenty-something.

tchrist

For which value of today?

Cerberus

Mine own.

tchrist

And you really need to shed yourself of base-ten numbers before they catch up with you.

Cerberus

We can't all use hundreds like you.

WMD

Yeah, just go around telling people you're 11101 years old and see how far that gets you.

tchrist

04:35

I prefer sexagesimal.

WMD

Mothers, lock up your gesimals.

tchrist

If it was good enough for the Babylonians, it’s good enough for me.

Cerberus

Haha.

tchrist

And with that we come full circle, for without it, we couldn’t.

WMD

Why do we use an H for hexadecimal, but an S for sexagesimal?

tchrist

04:43

You know this.

Cerberus

Where do we use this?

tchrist

nonagesimal, quinquagesimal, vigesimal.

WMD

So why the H?

tchrist

It’s septagonal, yet heptastrophic.

WMD

I have always called it a heptagon.

I consider septagon non-standard.

tchrist

04:48

Septagon is rarer that heptagon, but not non-existent.

It appears that octosexdecimal also exists.

It has to do with a way of cutting a gem.

Either eight sides in one place and sixteen in another.

Cerberus

Proto-Indo-European s- turned into h- in many Greek words, while Latin kept s-.

Hypo = sub.

Hyper = super.

Etc.

tchrist

It’s sexagenarian, for example, but usually hexahedral.

If it is construed to come from Greek, it takes an h-. If it is construed to come from Latin, it takes an s-.

Whether it does or not is a different story.

Hexadecimal is a modern invention.

Obviously.

Cerberus

Haema = sanguis.

tchrist

Since clearly hexadecimal is one of those homosexual-like words.

Cerberus

I'm trying to think of more Greek and Latin roots used in English.

WMD

04:55

@Cerberus How do we know that PIE didn't have H in such words, which changed to S in Latin?

Cerberus

It is possible that same and homos are related.

@WMD Because other branches have s- too.

WMD

OK, good answer.

Cerberus

Like Germanic.

Seek = sequ- = hep-.

For example.

Self = se = he-.

tchrist

Is he- like se then? Like where?

Cerberus

Usually attached to -aut-.

Heauton.

= Himself.

tchrist

05:00

Hm. The Delhi quote has se there, doesn’t it?

Cerberus

Delphi?

Seauton = yourself.

tchrist

Ah. I took it for oneself.

Cerberus

"You must know oneself"?

tchrist

You think I know Greek verb forms?

Cerberus

-ti/-thi is a 2nd imperative.

tchrist

05:01

As is thy. Yes, yes.

Cerberus

Ehm.

Thou is probably related to su.

But to -ti/-thi? I hever never heard of that, but it is possible.

tchrist

At the PIE level, the t- for 2nd person thing that is so common.

Cerberus

And how is thy an imperative?

Yes, sometimes t changed into s in Greek.

tchrist

I was just connecting it to thou/thee/thy, not specifically going to that.

Cerberus

OK.

Attic thalatta, Ionic thalassa.

Tettares, p/tessares (or something like that).

Proto-Indo-European kʷ- changed into p/t/k in Greek, depending on the vowel, but it remained qu- in Latin in many cases.

Same for kʰʷ- and gʰʷ-.

tchrist

05:06

What, random stop from all three series? How strange.

Cerberus

It's not random.

T before i/e, p before ehh I forgot how it worked exactly. So as good as random for a learner like me, yes.

tchrist

Front–back affinity?

Cerberus

Probably something like that.

Or don't know whether it was assimilation or compensation or both.

tchrist

If /t/ goes with /i/, I might expect /k/ with /u/.

Not sure how to get /p/.

Cerberus

I don't think /u/ existed as such.

P is often before o, for example.

tchrist

05:08

Just /o/ then?

Cerberus

Also before a, I think.

PG a.

There is debate about whether or not a existed in PIE.

And this change is PG.

tchrist

What vowels did PIE have? How many? 4? 5? More? Less?

Cerberus

I think e/i/o.

At least at some point.

tchrist

That’s 3.

Cerberus

A is undecided. It appeared at some point, around the time when the laryngals disappeared.

WMD

05:11

@Cerberus Haha! Somebody ought to translate "Old MacDonald had a farm" into Proto-Indo-European.

tchrist

Connection?

Cerberus

Or is it laryngeals?

tchrist

Both words exist.

Cerberus

Well, I believe laryngal h2 resulted in +a.

Or possibly colouring of e into a.

WMD

I think laryngeals in this context.

tchrist

05:11

I assume PG had plenty of vowels.

Cerberus

H1 probably disappeared, and h3 resulted in...I don't know, h? Lengthening?

@tchrist Less than in historical languages, I believe.

tchrist

Funny how inflectional morphology seems to simplify with time, but the phonemic situation becomes more complex.

Cerberus

What if we just started putting spaces at slightly different places?

And created new definitions?

I'm not sure simplification can ultimately be proven.

Sed hora dormiendi adest.

WMD

HB if I don't see you tomorrow, dude. Which I almost certainly won't.

tchrist

@Cerberus I’m a blithering idiot up this late; I cannot understand how you do it.

Cerberus

05:25

@WMD Gratias ago tibi.

@tchrist I thrive on tardiness, that's it.

I can go on forever.

The morning, however, is my bane.

It can be postponed by a day or two, but in the end it must come.

TemporaryNickName

09:08

Guys

may i ask u a question?

guys

so my question is basically

why don't you put 'a' when you say 'You're rich' or

'Are you rich'?

Is it wrong to say Are you a rich?

what is the grammatical term for this?

my friend told me

it's because rich is not athing

then what is it?

TemporaryNickName

10:50

back

=( no one answered

Ethereal

13:19

Guys, how should I post the question title? "Lorem Ispsum Dolor Sit Amet" or "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet"?

Cerberus

13:58

@TemporaryNickName Yes, that is wrong.

Rich is an adjective. Adjectives don't get a/an.

> I am rich.

> I am a rich man.

Man is a noun. Nouns can get adjectives.

The grammatical term for rich in I am rich is subject complement.

The verb am is a copula there.

Copulae normally come with subject complements.

Cerberus

17:20

> ... a useful (and horrifying) map that the ACLU put together highlighting just how much of our country is within 100 miles of border/coastline, creating the Constitution-Free Zone Map -- which happens to cover about 2/3 of all American citizens.

techdirt.com/articles/20130212/02045321947/…

Matt Эллен

so is it just the dept. for homeland security that can search laptops? Or can I do it too?

I mean, not searching your laptop is of minimal benefit to your civil liberties, so you might as well let me

Cerberus

A persuasive argument.

You must be right.

Matt Эллен

:D

Cerberus

Search our laptops!

Matt Эллен

a conclusion I wish more people would come to!

searches laptops

Cerberus

17:30

Hehe.

The only thing is that my laptop is 10 years old and I never use it.

Matt Эллен

finds old ten year old search history

Cerberus

It will be mostly empty.

Matt Эллен

is disappoint

Cerberus

Sorry.

You may search my desktop, but it is rather heavy. I'd rather not take it with my on the plane.

And I'm not sure the monitor will fit into my hand luggage.

Matt Эллен

you could try wearing it as a fourth head

Cerberus

17:33

Wouldn't that get in the way?

And where do I buy a fourth neck?

Matt Эллен

the fourth neck shop

on the corner of fourth neck shop street and main

or you could try the second hand shop, I hear they have some fourth necks in the back.

Cerberus

Hmm.

Under the counter, huh?

I like my body parts secret and clandestine.

tchrist

@Cerberus Interesting how that line dips south to follow the coast of Lake Michigan near Chicago.

Cerberus

@tchrist I was wondering about coastlines too, but apparently those are "borders". I suppose a ship could land near Chicago and unload laptops with copied songs.

I feel that, just to be sure, areas 100 m from a river or an international airport, should also be included in the Zone.

tchrist

17:48

@Cerberus Yes, I imagine those count as ports of entry.

Cerberus

Yes.

Matt Эллен

so everyone should move to Denver. the constitutionally safest place

tchrist

kukluxklandestined

@MattЭллен Safe from coastal beaches.

Matt Эллен

indeed

tchrist

Despite our having the tallest sandcastles on the continennt.

The wind blows all the sand from out west and piles it up in front of the Continental Divide.

Which it can’t get over, at going on three miles high.

Great Sand Dunes National Park and Preserve

Great Sand Dunes National Park and Preserve is a United States National Park located in the San Luis Valley, in the easternmost parts of Alamosa County and Saguache County, Colorado, United States. Originally created as Great Sand Dunes National Monument on March 17, 1932, Great Sand Dunes National Park and Preserve was established by an act of the United States Congress on September 13, 2004. The park includes and the preserve protects an additional . Natural history The park contains the tallest sand dunes in North America, rising about 750 feet (230 m) from the floor of the San Lu...

You can see it from the Crestones, which are the high mountains towering above it.

Oh, it says 750 feet now. I thought it was a thousand.

Cerberus

17:52

@MattЭллен Uhh I'm sure Denver is within 100 miles of an international airport.

tchrist

Barely. The airport seems like it’s in Kansas to most of us.

Cerberus

What does that mean?

tchrist

It means that it is a long ways away, and utterly flat.

It’s out on the plains far from the mountains.

Cerberus

So no 100-m zone?

tchrist

It’s like 30 miles from Denver and 50 miles from Boulder. It really is close to nothing at all.

How far are you from Schiphol?

I still think it should be called Airshiphole myself. :)

To go with all the car holes.

Cerberus

17:59

About 20 minutes by train. The train stops right below the main hall of the airport, just 1 escalator. And I live about 5 minutes from the Centraal Station. I have no idea how many km.

Maybe 20 km? 30 km?

It counts.

100 miles is plenty.

tchrist

I don’t even remember what the 100 miles is about.

But yes, it is within 100 miles, by 50%, or however you measure that.

I guess you must be about 20 miles away.

Except that trains in urban areas seldom go a mile a minute.

So maybe you are closer.

Hi @BarrieEngland. What’s up?

Cerberus

18:19

By car, the airport is 20 km / 23 min from here.

By train, 13 minutes if you take the fast train.

16+ minutes on slower trains.

12 km as the crow flies.

So I could walk to the airport in two hours.

tchrist

@Cerberus So you’re saying it’s two leagues away, then? :)

Cerberus

The actual route on foot would take 3h06 according to Google Maps, to the main hall.

tchrist

Most people walk 3 miles per hour.

Cerberus

That's very slow.

tchrist

You can actually walk 5 miles per hour before you start to seem like not-walking.

Cerberus

18:26

Is a league 1 hour?

tchrist

A league is an hour’s walk, yes.

Now held to be 3 miles. At least on the flat.

Cerberus

I always forget what which measurement was in which age in which place.

Oh, wait, you said 3 miles.

5 km/h is a brisk walking speed.

6 km/h is military march.

tchrist

I didn’t say that.

You know I use only English.

Cerberus

?

I read km where you said miles.

tchrist

Yes, that was the bug.

I use only English measurements.

Cerberus

18:28

"I didn't say that"?

Sudhir

Hi @MattЭллен

tchrist

I didn’t use non-English measurements.

Sudhir

After a long time

Cerberus

I have no idea what you're talking about.

"You said 3 miles" => "I didn't say that".

Perhaps it is time you grew two more heads.

tchrist

You are mismatching the threads.

Matt Эллен

18:35

Hi

2

tchrist

Hail and well-wet.

> He slashed the threads to pieces and went off singing.

Sudhir

How are you? @MattЭллен

I've one question @MattЭллен

What're the factors that determines exchange rates?

Like 1 British pound cost ₹83

You there?

@tchrist: You can help me

Matt Эллен

I do not know

magic mostly and bankers

Sudhir

So what's value of pound in London

?

Matt Эллен

one pound in London is one pound

so long as you mean GBP

Sudhir

18:51

I mean how much one laptop in pound?

Matt Эллен

oh, well that depends on the laptop

but let's say from £300 upwards

Sudhir

For eg. HP notebook

Matt Эллен

yeah about £300 upward

Sudhir

I think its cheap than in India

What you say?

Matt Эллен

possibly. how much is a laptop in India?

Sudhir

18:53

It starts from ₹30,300

You know for us, its very huge amount

Matt Эллен

well, that's not much different

in absolute values, anyway

Sudhir

no its different

See 1 pound = 80 ruppes

Matt Эллен

30,300 Indian Rupees is about £360 GBP

Sudhir

80x300=24000

how you typed that pound sign?

Matt Эллен

shift + 3

how do you type the rupee sign?

Sudhir

18:56

mine is not working

there is special button

over 4

shift + 3 means # in my lappy

Matt Эллен

oh, for me that outputs the euro sign €

Sudhir

Which lapy you have?

I think manufactures use signs according to country

Laptop belongs to which company?

Matt Эллен

I don't have a laptop

Sudhir

Then

?

I always wonder these differences

Please be fast

Matt Эллен

you want your laptop to be fast?

Sudhir

19:03

Ha ha

For you

:)

You've PC?

Matt Эллен

I do.

Sudhir

means

?

means

Matt Эллен

try talking in full sentences so I can understand you better

Sudhir

I'm asking what device you've?

Matt Эллен

oh! I have core i5 based system.

I bought the parts separately

Sudhir

19:07

Oh good

PC?

Matt Эллен

yeah

Sudhir

What are there companies that manufacture Laptops?

Matt Эллен

there are lots. you should look on google, that would be quicker than asking me :), but for starters there's Dell, HP, Acer, Asus that I can think of

Sudhir

Oh Thanks

I just want the differences between England and India.

Matt Эллен

well, most of the brands are international, so you'll be able to buy in the UK what you can buy in India

Sudhir

19:11

Oh

I thought price may vary

Matt Эллен

ah, that I don't

Sudhir

You know I just wonder how you people do all your work in Eng language

Also I found British people articulation very hard to interpret.

Matt Эллен

the same way you do all yours in your native language?

Sudhir

Yeah

Matt Эллен

Well, there are plenty of accents in the UK, and sometimes we can't understand each other :)

Sudhir

19:16

firstly, when I was child I use to think English speakers of UK, US are beyond the universe

:)

Matt Эллен

I see.

Sudhir

Because knowing English was like that the person is very intelligent

from our regional persecpective

Matt Эллен

knowing more than one language is surely a sign of an intelligent person

Sudhir

Hmm but we treat English speaker as a intellectual person

where I was born

So I think in your schools every student get 100 out of 100 in Eng

?

Matt Эллен

English isn't a science, so people can't get 100% :D most people can use the language really well, but they don't understand how it works from a linguistic perspective. It would depnd on how you tested them

Sudhir

19:23

But I think every person in UK knows English

Even a beggar can speak English fluently

Matt Эллен

nope. there are some people who immigrate who don't know it at all

Sudhir

What about beggars?

Matt Эллен

depends if they are native speakers or not

all native English speakers of English can speaker English.

Sudhir

So there are beggars in UK?

Matt Эллен

there are homeless people, yes.

Sudhir

19:25

As UK is one of the most developed country

In India, its worst

Matt Эллен

indeed

Sudhir

So what they do?

Matt Эллен

I don't know

Sudhir

I think they can get job easily

as they knew English

In India its just reverse

Matt Эллен

since so many people here know English, that's not a stand out skill.

Sudhir

19:29

They're illiterate

in my country

Matt Эллен

I have to go now. Byee!

Sudhir

Bye

Cerberus

20:28

What is your intuitive reaction to when a writer uses "she" as the common gender?

tchrist

20:43

“Non habemus papam” is a cute title for an article.

Cerberus

20:55

Yeah.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…