English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2013-02-18

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1:15 AM

blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2012/10/…

@MετάEd Have you heard of this fake study?

Researchers attempt to show how p-values can be flawed and how statistical correlation does not itself provide objective insights.

Which I think anybody will agree with anyway./

1:38 AM

@Cerberus Doesn't bother me in the slightest. But then, I hang out with the sort of people who use zie quite naturally.

Zie?

It doesn't bother me either, in most cases.

Of course it depends on context and genre.

It is sort of funny.

When a man writes it.

When a woman uses she for the common gender, it sounds a little bit too...feminist.

TemporaryNickName

2:13 AM

Guys

wanna hear sumamry of twilight?

here you go:

Girl: let's make babys

Vamp kid: no

Girl: can we marry instead?

Vamp kid: sure

girl: yay!

Haha.

TemporaryNickName

------------------- Saga 1 end --------------

Like this?

TemporaryNickName

omg

LOL!

Babby! and mroning!

Hehe.

The actual question + answer are still on line.

TemporaryNickName

2:17 AM

lol

btw can I ask you a question

?

Why is this sentence correct? "Are you rich" and "Are you a rich" is wrong?

FumbleFingers wins by a landslide.

@TemporaryNickName Have you read my earlier answer?

TemporaryNickName

nope

1sec let me see

Thx

1 hour later…

3:25 AM

@Cerberus: In your GreaseMonkey script, you just need one line: $('.comments-link').click(); That will expand all comment chains when the script runs (presumably on page load). — Robusto 46 secs ago

@Cerberus ^

@MετάEd This chat reached critical mass long ago.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

4:01 AM

hello everyone

@Cerberus Nice!

4:46 AM

I want to see, if anyone else can contribute here, whether with answers or votes on answers. I do not see clear winner as yet:

2

Q: Is the use of the word “terrible” in a positive sense at all common?

I recently had an argument with one gentleman where he charged that he had heard the word terrible being used in a positive sense, as if something was good, or great. I had lived in the States for over 12 years where I was exposed to different strata of society from PhDs to lowly construction wor...

2 hours later…

6:44 AM

Hello there, anybody there?

I have a question.

6:58 AM

2

Q: "take a satiric slant toward"

If there is this: "He, at least, has been occupied with the affairs of young men for some time. Of late his point of view has taken a satiric slant toward the grown-up children of the Jazz Age. " news source What is "take a satiric slant"? It is not in the dictionary. Could it be...

meaning idioms usage

All the hallmarks of NS

See: englishforums.com/English/TakeASlant/bdlwlc/post.htm

7:33 AM

@MετάEd NS?

2 hours later…

9:29 AM

Hello, I'm looking for a word, what is the verb when you loosen screws and bring out a machine part.

To me disassemble feels like disassembling the entire machine. I'm just detaching? one part.

TemporaryNickName

9:54 AM

@JohanLarsson How about "remove" ?

yeah maybe as simple as that. I'm trying to describe a maintenance task where they have to remove a part and adjust it before putting it back.

3 hours later…

1:22 PM

I wish there were a one-word verb for "make idempotent".

Other than potent itself, OED2 terms ending in "-potent" are armipotent, bellipotent, coömnipotent, counterpotent, cunctipotent, equipotent, funipotent, idempotent, ignipotent, impotent, multipotent, nilpotent, omnipotent, parvipotent, pennipotent, plenipotent, pluripotent, prepotent, primipotent, railipotent, solipotent, totipotent, unipotent, and ventripotent.

Which, while interesting enough, do little to inspire me towards a clear goal in my quest.

And potentate is a noun, not a verb.

Matt Эллен

idempotentize

I was avoiding that one, but yeah.

I feel like I should be able to fulfil my idempotential once and be done with it. :(

Matt Эллен

birth?

idempotentiate

Yah ok.

2:09 PM

Jan 15 at 20:51, by Robusto

Semper idem, semper fidelis.

How is everyone this morning?

I slept until 8:00 a.m. Kind of a record for me lately.

I feel great. Wish it weren't so damn cold out.

Matt Эллен

I am frustrated by code. Glad you slept well

I am unfazed by code, since I won't be writing any today.

Matt Эллен

nice.

Any plans?

My son has an interesting problem, though. Not sure where to ask about it. He does cancer research, and he needs to streamline the data crunching in his lab. He wants to know what would be a better front end for MatLab: C, C++, or Fortran.

I think that would get closed on SO, but I'm not sure.

Matt Эллен

might work on Programmers

If I remember correctly, matlab has a library that allows you commuicate directly with it from c#, if he's into MS technology

2:22 PM

Yeah. But it really needs an answer from a scientist's POV, not a programmer's, I think. I told him learning C++ to do science was like learning to be a master katana craftsman so you could then become a master at kendou.

Matt Эллен

I see

@Robusto It would probably get closed on most sites, I don't like that with SE in general. Sounds like a non-constructive.

One option is to ask the question to Mathworks.

Learning C++ as a front-end for Matlab seems like too much trouble. Every minute you save in processing time would probably add weeks to dev time.

Matt Эллен

yeah, i'd look for a python interface first. so much easier for scientists to use

I don't know if Fortran is better, no experience but it sounds like an old language, C# or Python sounds better.

2:28 PM

Python seems to be the form horse when I google the topic.

what is a form horse?

Ask @Matt. He's a Brit, so he should know.

Matt Эллен

It's the horse with best odds to win

Correctamundo.

Matt Эллен

mlabwrap comes up first. I've not used it, though.

2:29 PM

The "form" refers to the racing form, which is a publication about the horses scheduled to race on a particular day, giving odds and such.

Matt Эллен

7

Q: How do I interact with MATLAB from Python?

A friend asked me about creating a small web interface that accepts some inputs, sends them to MATLAB for number crunching and outputs the results. I'm a Python/Django developer by trade, so I can handle the web interface, but I am clueless when it comes to MATLAB. Specifically: I'd really like...

python matlab ctypes

Interesting.

More and more I think I need to start getting involved with Python.

Matt Эллен

it is pretty nice

That's what everyone says.

How does it run on Windows?

Matt Эллен

it runs fine

I've combined it with Qt to make windowed stuff

on MS Windows

2:33 PM

Python is probably a very good language to learn as first language, Fortran sounds more like something you need to learn to maintain some old system but idk really.

I wouldn't waste my time with Fortran.

Matt Эллен

I don't know Fortran. One of the physicists I work with uses it. He does a lot of work with fields

But Python and science sounds like a perfect match

Matt Эллен

magnetic fields, that is

@JohanLarsson yeah, I know several scientists who use it.

As a developer, I think Fortran looks like it's on the same historical rubbish heap as COBOL.

Matt Эллен

2:36 PM

aye

with numpy and scipy available, I don't think Fortran is necessary anymore

Haha, there are articles on "Object-Oriented Fortran" ... Reminds me of Dr. Johnson's quote: "[It's] like a dog dancing on its hind legs. It's not done well, but you're surprised it can be done at all."

@Robusto what isit exactly your son needs to get done? I presume the mathy stuff gets done by Matlab. You said 'front end'... do you mean the user interface?

Matt Эллен

:D

@Robusto ADD ONE TO COBOL

dont do anything new in fortran.

Matt Эллен

does something new in Fortran

dies

2:39 PM

@Mitch Apparently. He has a lot of different inputs he needs to crunch through Matlab and apparently it's hard to pull all his lab's data together and stuff it into that hopper. He needs a front end to do that.

@MattЭллен A rookie move. Mitch just warned you, too. Now you're dead. Poor Matt!

as of today 'anything new' that is computational should be done in python or in matlab.

uh... numerical not computational. it's all computational right?

Matt Эллен

I was testing the hypothesis that Mitch was wrong

@Mitch Well, yeah. I don't understand his requirements enough to explain them to a third party, though.

@MattЭллен That will teach you to test Mitch's hypotheses with your life at stake.

Matt Эллен

I have learned much, but all this knowlege is useless in my coffin

Famous post-last words.

BTW, shut up, you're dead already.

Matt Эллен

2:44 PM

I'm not dead! I'm getting better.

Walk toward the light!

@Robusto then you have the perfect father & son thing, geek around some with Python. Maybe start with project Euler tonight?

@JohanLarsson Interesting thought.

I wish I could pair program with gf...

@Mitch It's all numerical, too.

@JohanLarsson I believe the term for that is "sexual reproduction".

Be sure to perform unit testing first.

2:53 PM

I am pretty sure he is diligent about unit tests.

lame

@MετάEd I meant actual pair programming, think it would be nice. Sex is for teens and retards :D

@JohanLarsson And I meant actual reproduction. Sex is for that too.

Why are there so few owners in this room btw? Imo every reg who has no history of being out-of-line should be owner. Don't see any point in being restrictive.

@MετάEd over my head now, my English is not very strong.

@JohanLarsson Well, when a boy likes a girl … :-)

they write some code right?!

3:05 PM

They participate in a code-write rite, right.

I guess you can always do both, and find a mix that fits your inner geek.

@JohanLarsson owners? reg? I don't see any restrictions.

3:20 PM

but I don't see any names in italics

names in italics

How's that?

Matt Эллен

dames

Do you mean moderators?

On the SO chats that means a user is room owner.

Mod is blue font

Matt Эллен

same here

3:21 PM

but there's only one owner for a room, so how can you expect many?

Matt Эллен

you can have as many owners as you like for a room

Most rooms have many owners ime

also, lots of people show up here and chat. why would you expect the owner (who set it up for others to chat) should be here all the time?

OK

Ownership does not give much power, you can see deleted messages and move messages to bin.

But 'can' does not imply 'must'

3:22 PM

don't understand

@Mitch That is a good reason for more owners no?

You're looking for an answer to "Why are there so few owners in this room btw?"

yep, for no reason really. Just found it strange given the bunch of high rep regs here.

and all I'm saying is that there doesn't seem to be any reason for it to happen.

yes fair enough.

you might as well ask why @RegDwight is not in this room right now.

3:24 PM

lol, i might do it next.

@JohanLarsson I don't think we bother much with owners. Ownership fell to Reg, I believe, automatically at some point, because he was a regular in the room.

how could we possibly know? It's not necessary for him to be here, and maybe he has other things to do.

If Reg disappears another owner will be assigned.

@Mitch i was joking.

Matt Эллен

like how Kit became the owner of the writers' room

3:25 PM

@JohanLarsson It's like asking, "why aren't there pigeons on my roof right now?"

yeah why?

Matt Эллен

a bird in the hand is worth two on the roof

@JohanLarsson Joking? Lives are at stake.

@MattЭллен A rolling stone shouldn't be thrown at moss houses.

@Mitch You think it is connected to regs absence?

Matt Эллен

lol

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:26 PM

I know a guy who used to catch pigeons on his balcony then hold them, scream at them and make like he was going to eat them, and then throw them off the balcony.

Matt Эллен

you know a weird person

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

He figured if he scared them enough they wouldn't come back.

Matt Эллен

did it work?

@JohanLarsson black ops dispatched to @RegDwights house

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I suggested he try it with his daughter's suitors.

3:27 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 he should just eat it as an example to the others.

Matt Эллен

lol

or eat them all?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Not sure if it worked or not.

The catching thing is disturbing. YOu don't know where those pigeons have been. Like flying rats.

He could buy some kind of hawk dummy, that should keep them away.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:29 PM

Well, those rats were nesting on his balcony....

I think they get desensitized to the dummies

There are hawk siluette stickers you can tape on stuff, think they can work.

Matt Эллен

fit the dummies with motion sensitive lazer eyes

or maybe spread pigeon blood on the balcony

haha

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

or build a tennis-playing robot arm that can whack the birds out if the sky when they get close

make the place so gross that they don't want to come, win|profit!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:33 PM

I think pigeon blood would wash off on the rain and the downstairs neighbours might complain.

Matt Эллен

spread human bloood on the stairs so the neighbours don't come up

buy a fox?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, it was a high rise apt SK he'd need to maybe just put the blood in the hallway outside his apt.

His wife might object. She was not nearly as weird as he was.

Matt Эллен

that would be more efficient

Or just bomb the place, the standard easy solution to every hard problem.

Matt Эллен

3:36 PM

that's how to solve the travelling salesman problem!

yeah, nuke every city until manageable

Matt Эллен

but then the problem is "what is the shortest route to nuking all cities"?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I bet if he rigged up some kind of blood fountain that made it look like the walls were bleeding, he wouldn't have to deal with travelling salesmen either

Matt Эллен

lol

@JohanLarsson *silhouette

3:40 PM

@MattЭллен no you are thinking about it the wrong way, when bombing you don't have to be efficient. As can be seen here

@Robusto ty sir

6 hours ago, by Johan Larsson

Hello, I'm looking for a word, what is the verb when you loosen screws and bring out a machine part.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, I have to run. See you later

6 hours ago, by Johan Larsson

To me disassemble feels like disassembling the entire machine. I'm just detaching? one part.

Matt Эллен

CU @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇

user image

I wanted to say 25 or 6 to 4 was coined by T-Bone Stankus, but his song was written seven years later. Just goes to show I don’t listen off the top shelf. — MετάEd 13 secs ago

@Cerberus Disgusting.

3:51 PM

Robusto posted it.

I'm only the messenger. As is Clippy!

Because you have been using your mouse, haven't you??

Matt Эллен

clippy is disgusting, regardless its message

Regardless? Because of!

Partly because of.

Matt Эллен

maybe in the past, but now clippy is a synonym for disgusting

Putting a laughing paper clip before adults in a business application is an insult.

@Cerberus I have been using my coding partner, as everyone should. Ask Johan.

3:53 PM

Qu'est-ce que c'est?

Sounds very...cuddly.

Matt Эллен

user image

Is that Office 365?

Matt Эллен

probably

Microsoft do enjoy stealing ideas

Haha, do they?

Matt Эллен

that's how they got started

4:01 PM

If so, "stealing" ideas is good for humanity. Locking them up is bad.

Matt Эллен

locking up Microsoft or ideas?

@Cerberus I agree!

Matt Эллен

because Microsoft tried to lock up a lot of ideas

Yay!

@MattЭллен Yes, M$ sucks.

Don't get me started!

Jailbreak a smart phone, go to jail. It's the law.

The law is retarded.

4:05 PM

The very idea of "Office 365" is preposterous. All it is is an attempt at getting people to pay 500 % more than what they used to pay for the same product, by adding just a few minor bells and whistles. I can't believe anybody would fall for that.

@Robusto Yeah, few fixes would be nice.

Matt Эллен

I wonder if anyone has. we haven't here, and I don't know anyone with a subscription

I wouldn't touch it.

Nor I.

I'm still having a blast touching Office 2003.

Matt Эллен

4:22 PM

@Cerberus how did you get 2003? that's hundreds of versions ahead of 365!

You know I'm always ahead, software-wise.

Matt Эллен

riiiiiight! I forgot. you only have the latest

Gah, I hate code tutorials that haven't been proofread.

([Pp])ython&\1ails | Match python&rails or Python&Rails

Matt Эллен

is it a python tutorial?

Yes, of course.

That's obviously false, if you know regular expressions.

The search Function
This function search for first occurrence of RE pattern within string with optional flags.
Here is the syntax for this function:
re.string(pattern, string, flags=0)

Uh, don't they mean re.search instead of re.string there?

Matt Эллен

4:28 PM

yes

How is someone new to coding supposed to sift through crap like that?

Matt Эллен

learnpython.org looks really good

Nice, thanks. I will forward that to my son.

Matt Эллен

no trouble

I see Python has some baggage from C, like %s and %d placeholders for outputting strings and numbers.

Well, what do you expect from a language that's written in C, I suppose.

Matt Эллен

4:41 PM

it also has another option: "this {0}, {1}".format("is awesome", 11111)

where you can replace those constants with variables

@Robusto Oh, doesn't that match Python&Pails?

Matt Эллен

it is odd that python has two ways of doing the same thing, but I guess it has a bit of legacy

@Cerberus Yes, of course.

And can you even use a \1 within the search string?

I didn't know that.

Yes. It's called a back reference.

It's a hallmark of regular expressions.

4:43 PM

OK I have only ever used those with replacements rather than search strings.

But they have to refer to a capture group or they won't mean anything.

I know.

Except \0.

Or $0.

Right.

I never get when they use slashes and when dollar signs.

Slashes are used in regex syntax, dollar signs are used in strings

4:45 PM

"Strings"?

You don't know what strings are?

"strings"!

I have seen dollar signs used to refer back to Regex (...).

Different regex engines then.

"Regex"?

4:46 PM

Regular expressions, GREP, call it what you will.

I know what a string (of characters) is in general, but it seems too broad for what you mean.

@Robusto OK.

I used to say 'regexp' and enforce by strength of voice that that is how it should be pronounced. I don't do it any more.

It's funny how computers repurposed all kinds of conventional ligatures and other signs.

Sometimes not so funny.

@Mitch Why the p?

4:48 PM

REGular EXPression

Why not funny?

Because ambiguity breeds error.

Overloading operators and other syntax can cause problems.

Yeah it can be inconvenient.

it can be misunderstood

Something like $45 in code...is it a variable? Is it a sum of money inside a string?

Or some special function?

4:50 PM

There's a Star Wars quote relevant here...

To express literal $ in regex you have to escape it: \$

Yes.

Here's the quote:

Han Solo: Let him have it. It's not wise to upset a Wookiee.
C-3PO: But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a droid.
Han Solo: That's 'cause droids don't pull people's arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookiees are known to do that.
Chewbacca: Grrf.
C-3PO: I see your point, sir. I suggest a new strategy, R2: let the Wookiee win.

But outside Regex...

It's not relevant at all!

it's too hard to read?

4:52 PM

That's right. Outside Regex people escape with $!

I like Regex.

It's efficient.

I get it.

I think we should have context free grammars for pattern matching.

The first also applies to @Reg, though not the last two.

@Mitch If you want context free, you have just landed in Paradise, young man! EL&U questions can surfeit all your context-free needs.

Matt Эллен

what is the best word? Please help me. my sentence is "I have a banana, but I need an egg" and I need to know the adjective that should go before egg but not banana

4

or is that too much context?

@MattЭллен Sounds like a question for iCarlo.

5:01 PM

Hahaha.

@MattЭллен I think you need less spelling and capitals, and more question marks.

Matt Эллен

:D

Remember what you were taught in Internet school, question marks always come in pairs!

Matt Эллен

??

Yes!

In English speak you mix wrong egg with fruit, not agree.

5:03 PM

Now I have to go oil my lock.

*cock

Matt Эллен

does ??? count as two pairs or one and a half?

And by that I mean apply grease to my bike lock.

Matt Эллен

lol

That's two pairs and fine.

Later!

Matt Эллен

5:03 PM

CU

Bye.

slithers off

5:25 PM

@MattЭллен "pineapple".

6:13 PM

Hi @MετάEd

Hi @OliverSalzburg

Hi @Robusto

Yes you're right

about the uasge of imperative

Hi @Jez

7:06 PM

@Sudhir Howdy.

Matt Эллен

7:54 PM

@MετάEd an pineapple egg?

@MattЭллен Of course not. An pineapple doesn't lay egg.

Matt Эллен

is pineapple not adjective. I need adjective

??

lays egg

Matt Эллен

calls you chicken

Oops, I think I just breached my species-specific etiquette there.

But I have to go.

cluck

Bye!

Matt Эллен

8:01 PM

CU

@MattЭллен Ees pineapple, ees adjective. You never had pineapple upside-down cake? Pineapple pizza? Pineapple comment? Ees adjective. Ees modify pizza.

Matt Эллен

I see

so I should say "I have a banana, but I need an modify egg"

1 hour later…

9:25 PM

@MattЭллен You should say "Yes, we have no bananas."

And always order your egg over hard.

Matt Эллен

Thank you¬!

9:52 PM

You're welcome. ¬ṉ⌐

user19161

10:02 PM

@MετάEd You look so sexy in your new pic!

All right, now y'all are making me blush.

user19161

You all? Only me!

Feb 15 at 19:54, by KittenCanoodle

I was thinking it was the sexiest pic I'd seen of you yet.

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Feb '1318

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