English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

kiamlaluno

00:00

Moderators see an extra link, but I cannot find any new link, in that page.

"Analytics data is intended for moderators only; please don't share the specifics of this data in public."

Billare

@kiamlaluno Where is that quote from?

kiamlaluno

I guess that means @Regdwight cannot share with us what that page shows.

@Billare It is the text I see on that page, on Drupal Answers.

I am a pro-temp moderator.

That is the reason my name is rendered in blu, here.

Billare

@kiamlaluno Why would they do something so silly as to release important analytics data wholesale to the moderators? If I were going to do something like this, I would hide all the really important stuff from moderators; i.e remove fine grained age bracket data, make the keywords given only site-specific, possibly only make it ranked data instead exact numbers (High, low, medium, etc)

@kiamlaluno Ah, I see. I did now you were a pro-temp moderator on Drupal. Can you answer this question: Is the analytics data complete, as one might get from Google Analytics?

@kiamlaluno Or limited so as not to give too much away.

kiamlaluno

@Billare There are many data that are available to moderators and that normal users cannot see.

They are complete enough. Some statistics are specific for SE sites.

Billare

@kiamlaluno It would be nice to know what "in public" means. Does that mean you can PM this data, share it in chat, or is it basically saying "don't go post this on a public forum".

@kiamlaluno I see.

kiamlaluno

00:08

@Billare I guess it means "don't share this data with whom doesn't have access to them."

Billare

@kiamlaluno Yeah, that's probably the safest interpretation to take. Still, I'm curious about the data, for positive reasons -- I hope they grant users with enough rep access.

kiamlaluno

This is what happens when you ignore the warning about the battery level.

If they do that, then they will probably allow 20k users to access that page.

Billare

ok gtg

ciao.

kiamlaluno

@Billare: Ciao. :-)

Robusto

00:45

@Billare — I did say they were stupid, didn't I? What's your beef with me?

Aaaaaaaand ... my answer to "poured into a dress" strikes again. People just never get tired of that one.

Billare

01:11

@Robusto I don't have beef with you; in fact, I was agreeing with you there. I was trying to something like "exactly."

Robusto

Ah. OK.

It's a shame that our really good answers gather 3 or 4 votes, sometimes less. I mean, answers we work on, with all the trimmings, etc. It's a shame.

Billare

@Robusto Yes, I agree. It has to do something with which are questions popular to the wider audience. I can't quite figure out what makes some questions "hot" and others not. Some of them are quite unexpected to me.

Robusto

I saw one of @nohat's answers where he f***ing nailed it, had charts and everything and a well-written, well-reasoned answer, and it got like two votes.

People vote for things that titillate them in some way. That's all I can figure.

Billare

Do you remember which answer of nohat's you had in mind, @Robusto? I'd like to read it and upvote it I haven't already.

Robusto

No, I can't. It was several months ago that I saw it.

Billare

01:17

Ah, OK. Well I have tons of work to finish, and really shouldn't be dallying here.

Cya @Robusto @JSBangs.

Robusto

Bye

Robusto

01:33

Wow, things have come to a pretty pass when @Robert Cartaino has to be closing questions here on EL&U.SE. Last night Dori came in and helped out. What, are we poor relations or are our mods getting a bad rap with the Powers That Be?

1

Q: Slang words for body parts

We all know the various slang words for bottoms, boobs and genitalia. Those are well covered here already. This question relates to slang words for the other parts of the body. What common slang words do we have for body parts (aside from the "good bits" mentioned above). For example: "noggin" f...

slang

So what's with all the Valued Associate™ action we're seeing lately?

JSBangs

i suspect that the Powers What Be mostly intervene when bad questions start to move up the SE network rankings

Robusto

Well, that question had been up for 4 hours.

I'm out. TTYL.

Robusto

10:02

Good morning.

RegDwight

Ebenso.

Robusto

What's with all the Valued Associate™ action we've been seeing lately?

RegDwight

JSBangs might be spot on.

Robusto

It kind of creeps me out, actually.

RegDwight

I wasn't there, so I'm not sure if the question was moving up the MultiCollider or if Robert just happened to be checking the site.

Robusto

10:08

Are we getting a reputation for becoming the Bad Boy of SE sites because of all our body part questions?

RegDwight

Well, they sure do keep an eye on that, if you remember the boobs question.

But anyhow, this is not the first question to be closed by Robert, more like the sixth.

Robusto

It's the first I can recall.

And he closed it just as I was writing my sarcastic response.

RegDwight

Well, you had four hours to still post it.

meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/592/…

Robusto

No. I only saw it after dinner.

RegDwight

I mean that you had four hours after it had been closed.

Robusto

10:12

1 min ago, by Robusto

And he closed it just as I was writing my sarcastic response.

It wouldn't accept the answer. (This question has been closed, it said.)

NO MORE ANSWERS WILL BE ACCEPTED.

Maybe when a VA™ closes a question it stays closed.

RegDwight

Hm. Strange. Also, why won't that link to meta inline?

meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/592/…

Robusto

You got no juu-juu this morning.

RegDwight

But... but... I can't live without juu-juu!

Robusto

Well, you better get some. Are the stores open?

RegDwight

They expect me to moderate a juu-juu-less site? How, on Earth, HOW??

Robusto

10:15

It's a tragedy.

RegDwight

That's a litotes.

Robusto

Just so we're current with our vocabulary: LITOTES ironical understatement in which an affirmative is expressed by the negative of its contrary

RegDwight

No way!

That's like, you know, déjà-vu all over again, or something!

Robusto

A litotes would be "It's not a comedy."

RegDwight

Orly?

Robusto

10:17

rly

RegDwight

That's not an airport.

Robusto

degaulle

as in "you have de gaulle to say dat to me?"

RegDwight

But de Gaulle is CDG, not RLY.

Hast Du Deinen Pilotenschein im Lotto gewonnen?

Robusto

Farnsworth: "Litotes occurs when a speaker avoids making an affirmative claim directly and instead denies its opposite. Often this amounts to a double negative."

RegDwight

Um, Robusto, I know what a litotes is.

Mar 22 at 19:15, by RegDwight

Joke

A joke is a question, short story, or depiction of a situation made with the intent of being humorous. To achieve this end, jokes may employ irony, sarcasm, word play and other devices. Jokes may have a punchline that will end the sentence to make it humorous. A practical joke or prank differs from a spoken one in that the major component of the humour is physical rather than verbal (for example placing salt in the sugar bowl). Purpose Jokes are typically for the entertainment of friends and onlookers. The desired response is generally laughter; when this does not happen the joke is...

Robusto

10:19

I don't think you do.

RegDwight

13 secs ago, by RegDwight

Mar 22 at 19:15, by RegDwight

Joke

A joke is a question, short story, or depiction of a situation made with the intent of being humorous. To achieve this end, jokes may employ irony, sarcasm, word play and other devices. Jokes may have a punchline that will end the sentence to make it humorous. A practical joke or prank differs from a spoken one in that the major component of the humour is physical rather than verbal (for example placing salt in the sugar bowl). Purpose Jokes are typically for the entertainment of friends and onlookers. The desired response is generally laughter; when this does not happen the joke is...

Robusto

Why you keep making jokes that aren't funny?

RegDwight

In fact, I was the first one to mention litotes on this site.

@Robusto Why you keep not laughing about my jokes?

Just laugh, the rest will come naturally.

Robusto

27 secs ago, by Robusto

Why you keep making jokes that aren't funny?

Just come; naturally, the rest will laugh.

RegDwight

Them's communist jokes. You need a brain to understand them. Look it up in a dictionary of your choice. I'll wait.

Robusto

10:21

I don't need a Commie brain.

RegDwight

Not commie brain, just brain.

Robusto

You are destroying my Purity of Essence. Especially if I laugh at your jokes.

RegDwight

I have a few on sale, but they only get jokes in Khoisan.

Robusto

Anyway, I'd better go get a brain. I hear they come in coffee cups.

RegDwight

Prost.

Robusto

10:23

BBL.

RegDwight

11:06

@Billare I can "disclose" this bit because you've already found it out all by yourself: the Charlie Sheen question is quite a magnet.

Almost 12k views and counting.

Robusto

Me gots ta ask a Charlie Sheen question.

RegDwight

11:21

You not inuff rep?

Tom

Good afternoon

RegDwight

Ebenso.

How's'em'goin'?

Tom

I'm struggling with this English language once again.. basically I'm trying to introduce a third argument. For the first two arguments, I actually started with the "other side"'s argument

like a rebuttal

The third argument however seems to have no such apparent other side argument

So I figured I'd say something like this: "A third phenomena for which no apparent rebuttal seems to be given but that does cause ... to encourage consumer savings is the one of ..."

Robusto

@RegDwight — How much rep yaz needz for to ask Violent Torpedo of Truth™ question?

Tom

does not really seem to make any sense at all though ^_^

Robusto

11:28

abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/…

RegDwight

@Tom I... I am still not quite sure what you're trying to say there. You always withhold just enough context for your quotes to be hard to parse. (^_^)

But I would not be caught dead using phenomena as a singular.

Robusto

@Tom: What is your native language?

Tom

@Robusto dutch

Robusto

@RegDwight: You should have simply closed the tongue-twister question. It's someone's attempt to be clever posing as a question. IDK what they will do with it at Writers.SE, except resent us for tossing them our trash. On the other hand, they don't get a lot of questions there, so maybe they'll be grateful for anything they get.

Tom

@RegDwight I'm sorry, it's rather annoying I cannot paste the whole context

I think I will just start over here

Robusto

11:38

You could wait till @Cerberus shows up and ask him in Dutch.

Tom

Alright

RegDwight

@Robusto Yes, I was quite hesitant to migrate this particular question, for the very reason you state. But then I decided to go on and migrate it anyway, for the very reason you state.

Robusto

That has a certain symmetry to it.

RegDwight

I always try not to sound like a Miro painting.

Tom

The same reason implies two opposite actions? Huh :p

RegDwight

11:41

@Tom Robusto's reasons are omnipotent.

Robusto

Two reasons.

Tom

Great, I hope one day my reasons will be omnipotent. :)

(I had to google that definition FYI)

Robusto

BTW, @RegDwight, I have my brain back, so I should be able to detect your jokes once again. I just have to keep reminding myself that a joke doesn't have to be funny.

RegDwight

@Tom Almachtig. Or something.

@Robusto If you detect a funny joke, it sure as hell ain't coming from me.

Robusto

@RegDwight — Another data point. Soon I will learn the mystery that is @RegDwight.

RegDwight

11:44

Glad to help. Here's yet another data point: Superkracht is een kracht die superhelden en superschurken hebben..

I bet you didn't know that.

Dutch is hilarious. (Add that as yet another data point to your list.)

Robusto

Super-strength is a strength that superheroes and super??? have?

schurken?

RegDwight

Baddies.

Robusto

Ah.

RegDwight

I suppose you'd call them rogues or something.

Robusto

Super-villains then.

RegDwight

11:46

Or that.

Robusto

The nemeses of super-heroes are super-villains or arch-villains, something like that.

RegDwight

Mar 6 at 21:27, by Robusto

Wie heißt ein Schurke auf Englisch?

Mar 6 at 21:29, by RegDwight

@Robusto Miscreant? Scoundrel? Rogue? Beggar? Desperado?

We've come so full circle, it ain't funny anymore.

Tom

Can any of those genius brains around here somehow extract the real name of a The Economist writer, with nickname Buttonwood? economist.com/blogs/buttonwood

Or would that be his last name?

Robusto

@RegDwight I was at work. Gimme a break.

Besides, you were using it in German then, not Dutch.

RegDwight

huhuh, buttonwood... like, huhuh. Dude.

Tom

11:48

Is he a known writer?

RegDwight

@Robusto Nah, you were using it in German, then.

Robusto

"Buttonwood (Finance) — named for the buttonwood tree where early Wall Street traders gathered. Until September 2006 this was available only as an on-line column, but it is now included in the print edition. It is written by Philip Coggan."

From Wikipedia. You need to learn how to Google, Tom.

RegDwight

Huhuh, on-line column... like, huhuh. Dude.

Robusto

Dude. Righteous.

Tom

@Robusto great, I gave up but it looks like I should have added wikipedia or something

Robusto

11:52

I just typed "who is buttonwood economist" into the search.

Tom

I will try that next time, thanks

Oh now I'm here, I'm developing a web application at the moment, and it's going to be translated. I wondered though, whether it is worth it to create an American and UK version of the English translation, or whether one would suffice for both groups

Maybe there have been studies indicating the difference in tone, terms, etc. and whether either of the groups is much more inclined to be satisfied when served in their own kind of English

RegDwight

6

Q: English Language Variety for Global E-Commerce

What English language variety (AmE, BrE, and the like) better to choose when translating to English (or building it from scratch) an E-Commerce site which intends to operate globally? Is American English a standard choice for such a use? Or is there a trend for some artificial mix of different ...

american-english british-english internet

Wikipedia doesn't have two separate versions for EN-US and EN-GB. Just sayin'.

Tom

Makes sense. I didn't think it'd be worth it either, but wanted to be sure

There are sites that merge the English flag with the American flag, indicating the English language. I can imagine that it might be better to just create two flags, even if leading to the same language

Otherwise brits might feel offended for assuming that they are americans and the other way around.

Or well, probably they don't really care. :)

RegDwight

12:11

Ugh, flags are a very bad metaphor for languages.

There are flags that correspond to many languages, and languages that correspond to many flags.

Note how Apple does not use flags for languages, they actually use them for countries.

Tom

@RegDwight when you use them for countries, how would you then decide the language?

RegDwight

A separate control, obviously.

Tom

I could do it like twitter, try to optimize the detection of a language and allow a custom selection through a selection box

RegDwight

apple.com/choose-your-country

Note how they have Belgié/Belgique, Schweiz/Suisse. But the flag is the same.

Which is the only sensible thing to do.

Tom

@RegDwight not a very good example it seems, apple.com/ae results in plain english ^^

but I see your point

RegDwight

12:15

@Tom Um, I'm afraid you don't.

Again, the page is not titled "select your language". It's called "select your country/region".

Tom

@RegDwight Right, but they know what languages are used in the arabic regions

It's not English

If I were arabic I might as well have said that I live in the US as it'd have given no noticeable difference

RegDwight

Um, no, the mini-sites are targeted to the country in question.

Tom

It looks like they don't even allow a different language

RegDwight

Well, if they decide to offer a mini-site in English rather than Arabic, that's a different decision entirely. But the site is still targeted to the country. You get a different list of stores, different support numbers, you can't download certain music because Apple's license agreements with the music industry are limited to certain countries.

The point is, if they show you a flag, it stands for a country. Which is what its whole freaking purpose is.

Languages don't have flags.

Tom

True, I get it ;)

RegDwight

12:24

globalbydesign.com/blog/2009/04/23/…

Tom

Heh that is one strange icon

The globe icon is nice though

With text of course.

RegDwight

That blog, Global by Design, is quite interesting, actually. Especially since there aren't many blogs on Web site globalization/localization to begin with.

The rise of “international” English — otherwise known as American English

Robusto

I'm outta here. ttyl.

RegDwight

CU.

Tom

@RegDwight that blog is great, exactly my area of interest -- thanks I bookmarked it.

Tom

12:47

Is a "pension premium" the correct term to indicate what employees need to pay for their pension?

Or a pension charge or something?

In dutch we'd say "premie"

RegDwight

I've certainly seen "premium" in insurance contexts, but it still strikes me as odd.

"Fee" is certainly more common, I would say...

JSBangs

no, i think that "premium" is correct here

Tom

But fee would be more on the safe side?

If so, I'd go with fee

RegDwight

Sorry, Xblast here...

Cerberus

Hi.

I think it may depend on the country and the system.

I have heard contribution used.

Tom

13:03

Heh alright. I will use "... pension fee or premium."

that should be clear

Cerberus

If the pension scheme is an insurance plan, premium is OK; if not, I'd use contribution... which country or company are you describing?

Oh and what do you think, should we declare the new name of this room to be "New Holland"?

Kosmonaut

Shouldn't a bunch of these answers just be comments:

4

Q: Is the term "would-be" just an Indian usage or universal?

I've noticed that Indians use the term would-be in place of fiancé/fiancée. Usages like "Meet my would-be" and "This is my would-be" are common in introductions. I used to wonder if this is just an Indian usage or if we got it from the British. I have never heard it being used in American movies ...

indian-english

Tom

@Cerberus Thanks. And yes, we should.

Kosmonaut

The "I've never heard it in..." answers

Tom

I shall continue with my quest of bothering you with nasty questions. This time, it's about economic jargon explanations and literature references. For an essay, should I use foot notes for literature references and end notes for economic term explanations or the other way around?

To clarify, I have certain terms that I wish to further explain but not within the actual context (so I should do that in a foot or end note).

Cerberus

13:14

@Kos: I'm not sure. If I were browsing that question, I'd not want to miss those answers. Then again, perhaps I should be diligent enough to read the comments too.

Kosmonaut

Otherwise, it is a bit like a poll.

Cerberus

@Tom: If you must put jargon in its own section, better add it as an appendix/glossary.

Kosmonaut

@Tom Wouldn't someone in the field of economics be able to answer that much better?

Cerberus

It does sort of depend on how obscure the jargon is.

What is the essay about? How many pages is it? What is its intended audience?

Tom

@Kosmonaut why economics? This applies for... biology or spacial science as well. I think it's just general theory on how an English essay should be structured? @Cerberus kind of like an end note? I am a bit scared to use an appendix for a simple essay

@Cerberus two pages only

Kosmonaut

13:17

If you are writing a paper for a given field, normally there is a standard way that such things are done.

It is not the same for every field.

Cerberus

@Tom: If it is a short essay, don't use both footnotes and endnotes.

Tom

@Kosmonaut alright, maybe I should try to find other articles with the same properties

Cerberus

(Answering these questions would be easier with more context...)

Tom

@Cerberus hmm okay, what about mixing references and definitions? Just add them all as foot notes?

@Cerberus I could e-mail it aslong as it stays private ^^

RegDwight

@Kosmonaut I think they should be comments.

They would be okay as answers if the OP were asking about opinions from around the world, which he is not.

The actual question seems to be "I used to wonder if this is just an Indian usage or if we got it from the British." Which is not answered by saying "never heard it in NZ".

Cerberus

13:20

@Tom: In my field (classics, history, philosophy), I'd definitely add them all as footnotes if I were forced to exclude things from the main text. But I'd prefer to explain the jargon in the main text or just not explain it at all.

Mixing different kinds of references in footnotes is fine in the humanities, as far as I know.

Tom

@Cerberus great, thanks a lot

Cerberus

@Tom: If you just mention subject & audience that would help.

Tom

@Cerberus it's about interest rates and how they affect consumer savings, audience is not properly defined but not just people interested in economics either. Basically, economical terms should be described in footnotes such that "normal" people can understand the essay as well.

I think that what you suggested is fine though

(I realize how funny that statement sounds, as if people interested in economics are abnormal, but you get the point.)

Cerberus

Okay, if your audience includes both economists and laymen, then perhaps footnotes for jargon would be your best option.

Tom

Righto, thanks again

Cerberus

13:25

(I will refrain from commenting upon the normalcy of economists...)

Where is it to be published?

On the internet?

Or are you handing it in with your professor at university?

Tom

@Cerberus indeed, I'm just a typical student I'm afraid

Cerberus

Okay, but are you a student of economics?

If so, I'd not explain the terms that you'd expect the average reader of the NRC Economy section to understand.

RegDwight

Wait a minute, people interested in economics are not abnormal? Quick, inform @Robusto.

Cerberus

What, is he interested in economics as well? How many idiosyncrasies can a single person carry around...

Kosmonaut

I saw "A Beautiful Mind" — I know what happens when you study economics.

RegDwight

13:31

@Cerberus I don't think Robusto's interested in anything other than his backyard and American Dad re-runs.

Tom

I provoked something here ^^

Cerberus

Aww... I think he secretly likes Bridge too.

RegDwight

@Kosmonaut That hideous woman follows you everywhere?

Cerberus

Brb, time to put in my contacts.

RegDwight

@Tom Holland is full of agents provocateur.

Kosmonaut

13:33

@RegDwight Jennifer Connelly?

RegDwight

@Kosmonaut I didn't want to mention the name.

First rule of Fight Club.

Kosmonaut

1. Don't mention Jennifer Connelly by name.

Tom

Did you just break your own rule?

RegDwight

Which is not to say that Dark City wasn't a decent movie.

Kosmonaut

Oh, it's on now!

RegDwight

13:38

Hey, this chat should have some Tetris plugin or something.

Kosmonaut

We could do a text-based version.

"You encounter a Z-block."

"It is oriented vertically."

RegDwight

B!

Then down!

Kosmonaut

"With a mighty crunch, the Z-block rotates, orienting itself horizontally!"

"The Z-block plunges towards the bottom of the pit."

RegDwight

Okay, how likely is it that a) there's a person out there who's just as bored as I am, and b) he's in this very chat?

Kosmonaut

"Oh no! You were off by one column! Your Z-block pokes outward above all other blocks. You are humiliated."

RegDwight

13:41

^ Case in point.

Kosmonaut

Maybe I just love text-based RPG Tetris?

RegDwight

It should have an SE of its own.

Cerberus

"You are humiliated", I like this.

RegDwight

Hm. Does ASCII art actually work in here?

Cerberus

Probably not...?

Line spacing looks off.

Kosmonaut

13:45

L

Cerberus

Oh God, brace yourselves...

RegDwight

` _ _ _ `

|_|_|_|

Cerberus

Not the L-shaped block...

RegDwight

` |_|`

Cerberus

Oops sorry.

RegDwight

13:46

FFS!!! Dude!!! Like, DUDE!!!

Cerberus

Hehe.

Try again.

RegDwight

Ur in my interwebz brakin my tetrisez.

@Cerberus First I'll have to figure out why ` ` doesn't work.

Cerberus

Oh that was supposed to be a Tetris thing... I thought it was going to be a face or something...

Oh, the code markers... yeah.

RegDwight

O.M.&c.

Cerberus

'code'

CODE DAMMIT

No, even that didn't work.

Maybe if I'll bash in my screen? Would that work?

RegDwight

13:48

First, it's `, not '. Secondly, and most importantly, it appears that it may not begin with a whitespace.

Cerberus

code I knew that!

RegDwight

You knew nuthin. Me teached u.

Cerberus

Hehe.

I've used it countless times in answers, but I forgot in chat... how does memory work... odd...

Whitespace code

Hey it worked.

RegDwight

God you're so funny.

Cerberus

code

There I used an actual space even.

RegDwight

13:50

And where it is?

Cerberus

But it appears the space is just removed?

three spaces

. dot

RegDwight

Okay, dots should work. Lemme see. Quiet now!

Cerberus

And it reduces any number of spaces to a single space.

Kosmonaut

|

RegDwight

._._._.

Cerberus

13:51

Nooo...

RegDwight

|_|_|_|

Cerberus

Oops.

RegDwight

....|_|

Grmpf. I take my block and go home. Where there's no Cerberuses. Like, not a single one.

Cerberus

Okay, okay, I will be quiet now. You have 30 secs.

RegDwight

._._._.

|_|_|_|

....|_|

That's almost as hideous as Zoidberg.

Cerberus

13:53

Hmm...

The spacing looks okay... but the artistic inspiration?

RegDwight

It's just a bit hairy.

Cerberus

Hairy.

I see.

RegDwight

And the spacing does not look okay in this browser on this machine.

Not even kind of sort of okayish.

Cerberus

Well your lines are aligned quite evenly on the right side, in my browser.

Perhaps the problem lies in this chat lines' being vertically challenged?

RegDwight

But the leading is off.

Cerberus

13:55

Leading, as in leading spaces?

RegDwight

Leading

In typography, leading () refers to the distance between the baselines of successive lines of type. The term originated in the days of hand-typesetting, when thin strips of lead were inserted into the formes to increase the vertical distance between lines of type. The term is still used in modern page layout software such as QuarkXPress and Adobe InDesign In consumer-oriented word processing software, this concept is usually referred to as "line spacing" or "interline spacing." Origins The word comes from lead strips that were put between set lines. When type was set by hand in ...

Leading as in a piece of lead.

Cerberus

Oh, I see.

That's what I call vertical challenges.

RegDwight

So, @Kosmonaut, have you put your L next to your | yet?

Cerberus

Perhaps you should take up painting instead.

Tom

Q: Stagnation is a decrease in growth right? Not actually a decrease in nominal values? Thesaurus is giving some false synonyms I believe, thesaurus.com/browse/stagnation

Kosmonaut

13:58

Did you all ever play Welltris?

RegDwight

@Kosmonaut Not very well.

I've played tons of spin-offs, but I still like the original Game Boy version best.

Cerberus

@Tom: Right.

Kosmonaut

@RegDwight They had Welltris for Game Boy?

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