English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

RegDwighт

17:00

And the worst part is, it's not really permanent.

Robusto

Yeah it is.

RegDwighт

In fact even after all these years, I only have mine by a margin of one(!) vote.

Robusto

It doesn't get taken away if the situation changes.

Matt Эллен

but aren't badge permanent once awarded?

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Only two years?

RegDwighт

17:00

@Robusto No, but you don't get a second one should you qualify.

Athi

hi

Robusto

You only have to achieve the feat once, not forever.

Cerberus

Hi.

Matt Эллен

Hi.

Cerberus

I usually close a whole bunch of tabs in a row when the "comments I needed to convert into answers" keep piling on.

Athi

17:01

what you people are disscussing

Cerberus

Yes, what about it?

It's Very Important.

Because that's what We are.

Are you one of Us?

RegDwighт

@Robusto If I achieve it on another question, and the situation changes on this one, I don't get the second badge. The feat is checked every single time the script runs.

Robusto

@RegDwighт When I got my Legendary badge, a few months later some diligent mod deleted a bunch of posts/questions/users and my total of rep-caps fell below 150 for a while. But the badge remained.

RegDwighт

@Robusto which part of "you don't get a second one should you qualify" is that a rebuttal of?

Athi

myself i am a student. i want to learn english

Matt Эллен

17:03

@RegDwighт oh, that's interesting

Athi

more

RegDwighт

You only get one Legendary in total.

Cerberus

More is always Better.

Matt Эллен

flies away

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Very elegant.

Athi

17:03

so give some tips for learning english

Robusto

@RegDwighт I have four Populists. On two of them that I looked at the total is no longer twice the accepted total. Not sure what point you're making.

RegDwighт

@Robusto the point is, if you qualify for a fifth, you won't get it. If you qualify for a sixth, you won't get it.

Athi

you people will not help me

RegDwighт

Unless the situation on that two questions changes again in your favor.

Come on, people. It's not that hard to understand. We discussed this like fifty times by now.

Cerberus

@Athi Why don't you consult some websites meant for tips for people learning English?

RegDwighт

17:05

Oct 11 '12 at 12:20, by RegDwighт

Old badges are not revoked, but the totals are checked before a new badge is awarded.

And I gotta run.

Cerberus

@Athi My general advice: read a lot (make sure the quality of what you read is decent).

And watch television programmes and/or films in English.

Athi

ok tell me some books

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Bai!

@Athi I don't know of any.

You will have to Google around for yourself a bit.

Robusto

@RegDwighт Oh, OK. Why didn't you make that clear in the first place?

Hmm, who is jwpat?

Cerberus

Anything written in English that you find interesting and that is at the right level for you.

Robusto

17:07

Your second paragraph is wrong. While "a front and a side view" suggests two views, "a front and side view" instead suggests a single oblique view of multiple surfaces. — jwpat7 3 mins ago

This is wrong. I'm not wrong, he's wrong. So there.

But thanks for the downvote anyway, jw. Even though I am being a little post hoc ergo propter hoc about it.

Cerberus

Perhaps a little.

Athi

just include me also in your chat

so that i can also learn

Robusto

That's the beauty of chat. You're automatically included if you just show up.

tchrist

Him:

0

Q: Wide, Large, and Broad

Dictionaries vaguely suggest that 'wide', 'large', and 'broad' mean "including extreme ranges": There was a discussion on the wider/larger/broader issue of budgeting. The lack of experience played a large/wide/broad role in incident. Could all three of 'wide', 'large', 'broad' be the same...

Athi

for what your giving downvote

Robusto

17:09

@tchrist Broad is the one that doesn't fit, because it's a slang term for a woman.

tchrist

There are wide and large broads.

And wide and wide ones.

Robusto

Also, large refers to increments of $10,000. (See grand, as in ten grand).

tchrist

Proof-proof:

Robusto

And if you give a broad ten large, you ought to get something for that.

tchrist

0

Q: is it correct to say "Depicting by"

I'm trying to write an essay about traditions on African culture depending on Chinua Achebe novel "Things fall Apart". my introduction is : "Achebe leads readers through his novel "Things fall apart" to African culture.The African culture, depicting by the Igbo people in the novel,is heavy in t...

words

Athi

17:11

super i am not at all think about it

what is difference between super and superb?

Cerberus

Superb is more formal.

And super often implies thankfulness.

tchrist

Super is not used as an adjective in English. It sounds German.

Or very slangy.

Cerberus

And they can be used in many different ways.

Robusto

@Cerberus No, that's not it. They're two different words.

Athi

thnak you

Cerberus

17:12

Are they two different words, really?

Gosh.

Athi

sorry

tchrist

Last night I saw a superb showing of The Red Baron.

Athi

thank you

tchrist

You cannot use super there.

Cerberus

Indeed not.

Robusto

17:13

@Cerberus That's why we go over these things.

tchrist

-2

A: What is the difference between "scent" and "odor"?

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE THOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That one smells.

Cerberus

That's super!

tchrist

That’s German.

Not in the current vernacular.

Cerberus

It is used in English!

Robusto

The super is the janitor in an apartment building.

tchrist

17:14

Sound a little interbellum to me.

Cerberus

It's certainly not hip, no.

Robusto

And super is what imbeciles eat in the evening.

tchrist

@Cerberus By Germans. Or Depression-era survivors.

Cerberus

That's just super.

tchrist

Good luck with that.

Athi

17:15

dinner

supper means dinner

tchrist

Sometimes.

Sometimes dinner means lunch.

Like on Christmas.

Robusto

It's not clear what you're asking. The sentence is too poorly written for us to make a definitive assessment. — Robusto 16 secs ago

tchrist

Or Sundays.

Cerberus

> 'We've just returned from the Bahamas!' the woman gushed. 'We didn't see you this time!' 'The Bahamas? That's super!' trilled Eleanor with genuine sincerity, touching her hand.

The word is used like this.

Like it or not.

I didn't say I liked it...

tchrist

Pablum.

As I said, good luck with it. You’ll need it.

Cerberus

17:17

Used is used.

And tell Athi that, not me.

tchrist

Nope. Not here.

Cerberus

I don't use it except ironically.

Athi

pablum means?

Robusto

@Cerberus I would not use super and superb interchangeably.

tchrist

I’m a programmer, not a dictionary.

Nor a bot.

Cerberus

17:18

@Robusto Interchangeably? Nobody would do that.

Athi

me also a programmer

Cerberus

@tchrist Then restrain your broad claims!

Robusto

@Cerberus So you admit it.

Cerberus

I want no global variables saying "no"!

tchrist

use strict, not no strict.

Robusto

17:19

@Cerberus Generally, it's good practice to avoid global variables anyway.

Cerberus

Meh, you silly people are just trying to pick a fight over something utterly uninteresting. I will not coöperate.

tchrist

Déjà fait.

Robusto

Who you callin' fait?

Cerberus

inoperates

I'm cold, hungry, and tired.

Athi

i'm cold mens?

tchrist

17:20

OFFS

It means that she is sexually frigid.

Cerberus

I will remedy two of those mishaps presently.

tchrist

Those are not mishaps.

Athi

oh really

Cerberus

Not to Your Frigidity, perhaps.

tchrist

A mishap is a misadventure, a misfortune.

It is an event.

Cerberus

17:21

D'oh.

tchrist

Being hungry is not an event.

Cerberus

It is.

It overcame me on the way home.

As did the cold.

tchrist

Being overcome might be an event. Being hungry, not so.

Robusto

@Cerberus What about the tired?

Cerberus

My feet are slightly wet from the rain too.

Robusto

17:22

@Cerberus You should try shoes. They keep my feet nice and dry.

tchrist

Getting tired is not a terrible accident.

And pants.

Cerberus

My shoes are cold too.

Athi

is it wet?

Cerberus

But there is nothing quicker than a bike.

Slightly wet.

Robusto

@Cerberus What about a jet?

Cerberus

17:23

Far slower.

Unless arriving alive is not required.

Robusto

Details.

Cerberus

I think you learned that firth and.

Arghh! Stupid spelling correector.

Athi

firth means?

Robusto

Same as fjord.

Cerberus

I'm not correcting that no more. I refuse.

Robusto

17:24

I refute.

Cerberus

*myself

Robusto

I refuge.

Cerberus

All the time.

Robusto

I refuel.

Cerberus

I must remove myself from the company of your clever puns for a moment while I take refreshments.

Robusto

17:25

And I am refulgent.

Athi

i am so poor

in english

Robusto

And I am OTL. Latoors.

Athi

Latoors?

Cerberus

eating home-made bread and sipping tea with a splash of milk

Athi

OTL?

Cerberus

17:28

Latoors = see you later = bye.

Hugo

On the loo. (Maybe.)

Cerberus

Ugh.

How dare he!

Athi

me?

Cerberus

@Hugo Is your main account really on Movies?

I am surprised!

Hugo

@Cerberus Erm, if so, I don't know why...

Cerberus

17:30

Yeah, yeah...

hands on hips

Hugo

Just changed it. What does it mean, anyway?

Cerberus

I...don't know.

That that's where you created your first SE account?

Hugo

No, SO I think

Athi

ok friends i am leaving buy

Cerberus

Buy!

@Hugo Then the most logical explanation is that your cat did it.

Does she like movies?

Mickey Mouse, perchance?

Hugo

17:35

@Cerberus That must be it!

Cerberus

I knew it.

Make sure you feed her on time, lest she subscribe you to unlawful websites...

Or, worse, ones that your wife will disapprove of.

Hugo

"It wasn't me! The cat did it!!!"

Cerberus

nods

Next in line are the octopus and the child, and finally the wife.

Hugo

I don't even have a cat

Cerberus

What stops you?

Hugo

17:45

the octopus

Cerberus

Ah yes.

Maybe put it in a tank.

Matt Эллен

18:25

@Cerberus why thank you, kind sir

KitFox

18:40

@RegDwighт You know you can't, right? Or is there something you are trying to tell me?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен It was a please.

KitFox

So @Matt, code repositories.

Robusto

18:58

amazon.com/The-Anatomy-Type-Graphic-Typefaces/dp/0062203126/…

For @tchrist. ^

KitFox

OK @Robusto. Code repositories.

;-)

tchrist

I sure hope centee is not NS.

KitFox

Can I ask you questions, @Rob?

tchrist

What, more than one? :)

KitFox

Yes.

Robusto

19:02

@KitFox That's a question already.

tchrist

@Robusto Hence my question.

KitFox

@Robusto Is that an answer?

tchrist

Would you like it to be?

Robusto

Do you always answer a question with a question?

tchrist

Does questioning further you in your life’s odyssey?

KitFox

19:04

Are we playing a game?

tchrist

Pends on whether it’s about svn.

Robusto

@tchrist 15-love.

KitFox

OK, so really. About version control. We're about to divide the production site/database into two. I really feel like I need to do version control now, but I am having a really hard time conceiving of how the pieces need to fit together.

Robusto

I can't help you with the database side. But you must have stored procedures that need to be version-controlled, no? As for the rest of it, don't you create a base platform, common modules, and then maven projects (or whatever you C# people call them) for the different manifestations of your application?

KitFox

I don't understand what any of that means.

Well, scripts for sprocs, I know what that means.

Meysam

19:13

@KitFox for database version control if it's sql server I would recommend redgate's database version control

KitFox

I'm not worried about what tool to use. I am concerned with reducing the maintenance of two identical applications.

Meysam

what is Stanislaus? is it a city? a region? or what? "Thirty-five years ago I was out prospecting on the Stanislaus, tramping all day long with pick and pan and horn, and washing a hatful of dirt here and there, always expecting to make a rich strike, and never doing it"

tchrist

centree

17 1

meaning-in-context usage word-meaning grammar

Well, it isn’t prepositions.

KitFox

Could be. Keeping an eye on it.

tchrist

Thanks.

KitFox

19:22

@Meysam Probably this river.

Stanislaus River

The Stanislaus River () in the U.S. state of California is one of the largest tributaries of the San Joaquin River. The river is long and has north, middle and south forks. It drains a long, narrow area of the western Sierra Nevada and the northern part of the San Joaquin Valley. Course The north and south forks meet several miles upstream from New Melones Lake and the middle fork joins the north fork a few miles before that. The Stanislaus River is extensively dammed and diverted. Donnells Dam on the middle fork forms Donell Lake, high in the Sierra Nevada. Downstream is Beardsley Da...

Given the gold digging references.

tchrist

Does that rhyme with Menelaus?

Helen was a gold digger.

Meysam

@KitFox Should be it!

Matt Эллен

19:39

@Kit ohai, sorry, I was eating

tchrist

@Cerberus Didn’t Greek have both periphrastic tenses (a.k.a. analytic tenses) as well as synthetic tenses (a.k.a. inflectional tenses)?

KitFox

@MattЭллен Ohai. We're talking in the jQuery room.

Matt Эллен

tchrist

Why is there no periphrasis tag?

Cerberus

20:00

@tchrist Yes, although the periphrastic ones are rare.

Much rarer than in Latin.

tchrist

For Latin, are you thinking of periphrastic passives, or something else?

Cerberus

Mostly the optative and subjunctive of the middle perfect in Greek. There are probably a few others, but I can't remember. In latin, all passive perfective forms are periphrastic, and the future subjunctive...

By passive perfective forms I mean forms of which the active counterpart is based on the perfect stem.

Robusto

This totally sucks. I just made a Christo reference and none of my colleagues got it.

tchrist

Yes, ok.

Cerberus

So quite a lot.

Whereas, in Greek, the perfect is fairly uncommon.

tchrist

20:04

@Robusto What, you put up funny draperies all over the place?

Or you genuflected?

Cerberus

The Count of Monte Christo?

Tomaso Christo?

Meysam

what's the meaning of "fire company" in this?
"In one place, where a busy little city with banks and newspapers and fire companies and a mayor and aldermen had been, was nothing but a wide expanse of emerald turf"
1. (Business / Insurance) an insurance company selling policies relating to fire risk
2. US an organized body of firemen

Cerberus

2.

Most probably.

Meysam

so, fire company = fire station?

Cerberus

Rather like a fire brigade, I would say.

KitFox

20:06

Company refers to the fire fighters.

Not the building.

Cerberus

So an organised group of firefighters.

Meysam

@KitFox Got it

Cerberus

They may have their own building, and that's what the scene probably intends to call to mind, but that is metonymous.

@MattЭллен Haha. I know this problem.

@tchrist Oh, and of course the future infinitives...

Why did you ask btw.?

tchrist

Because I’m going to make trouble.

Cerberus

Oh nice.

Where?

Of course the question is, what is a tense?

tchrist

20:11

Yes, that.

Here. Well, as a question.

Cerberus

A participle is a verb but also an adjective, and it only makes sense that you can use adjectives predicatively.

So there is nothing surprising about it.

To be angry =~ to be angered.

tchrist

For example, in Jeremy Butterfield’s The Arguments of Time (OUP 2006), he writes:

> A tense is inflectional if it is realized as an affix on a head (in English, a verb), periphrastic if it is realized as an independent word. Thus the English past is inflectional, but the future is periphrastic, co-opting the modal will.

Cerberus

Yes.

tchrist

This argues that English has a future tense, but that it is a periphrastic tense not an inflectional tense.

Therefore, my question is: Does “periphrastic” mean “bogus”?

Cerberus

And silly Lawler will flat out declare that an periphrastic tense is not a tense without considering alternative models.

Robusto

20:13

@tchrist We have a bearing pillar in our high-tech workspace, which got covered in foam padding and cloth because some idiot walked into it and chipped a tooth. Cut to: months later, new people come in and ask why the pillar is wrapped. I pipe up, "You don't recognize a Christo installation when you see one?"

Cerberus

It does not mean bogus.

tchrist

It may to Lawler.

Cerberus

It just means a phrase serves the same function as a synthetic tense normally does.

tchrist

> The tenses of the English verb are made partly by inflection, partly by the use of auxiliary verbs.

Cerberus

You may or may not call periphrastic verbal constructions tenses.

It is ultimately unimportant.

Lawler can't see beyond his particular doctrinal terminology.

tchrist

20:15

Some of the old sources I’ve looked at call these analytic tenses instead of periphrastic ones.

Cerberus

Same thing.

tchrist

But here is a related question: are compound tenses periphrastic or synthetic?

Cerberus

Is not "compound tense" synonymic to "periphrastic/analytic" tense?

I would say so.

As in the passé composé.

tchrist

Je vais te dire qqch, Je te dirai qqch.

Yes, exactly.

Cerberus

*dirai

tchrist

20:16

right.

Cerberus

Je viens de te dire quelque chose =~ je te disais.

tchrist

For spoken French, the normal past tense is the passé composé.

No one calls j’ai dit qqch a present-tense sentence.

Robusto

What does any of this have to do with "the meaning of crime and grime"?

Cerberus

@tchrist And yet in some way it makes sense to call it a present, as in the present perfect. It all depends on your definition. It doesn't really matter.

Words ≠ things.

There you have the fallacy that we all fall for now and then, some more often than others.

tchrist

If it doesn’t matter, then why do all the amici Pulli keep yelling at people about English having no future tense? It clearly has a periphastic/analytic tense there.

Cerberus

20:20

Because they are narrow minded and have a political agenda.

tchrist

So it’s all a devious plot?

What is that agenda?

Cerberus

They should study philosophy of science and try to see the bigger picture.

The agenda is to push their own novel terminology, like a civil servant destroying the old town hall and erecting a new one in his own name.

tchrist

That is what I was afraid of. It pisses me off.

Cerberus

Yeah.

Graduate

hi

Cerberus

20:22

Some novelties of modern Anglo-Saxon linguistics are pretty good. It is a shame they push their agenda in such an odd way.

Hi.

Pragmatics and speech-act theory and predicate frames and such are great.

Robusto

5 mins ago, by Robusto

What does any of this have to do with "the meaning of crime and grime"?

These are the important questions of the day, people.

Cerberus

Both this and that consist of words.

Robusto

-2

Q: The meaning of "crime and grime"

What does the expression crime and grime mean? It was mentioned from this comment: My dad's SUV got jacked when I was living in Saga Bay. Don't live in FL anymore. Too much f-king crime and grime.

meaning phrases meaning-in-context expressions

Cerberus

Happy now?

Robusto

I am always happy. Except when I'm not.

Cerberus

20:24

Oh that's great.

Do you ever hear "happy Christmas"?

Robusto

@Cerberus: You strike me as someone who might like the novels of Mary Renault.

Cerberus

I know this guy who says "happy Christmas" is the (only) correct form in certain circles in Britain.

Who is she? Is she French?

Robusto

I sense that you and she would have had some homophrosyne between you.

Cerberus

Like-mindedness?

Robusto

Mary Renault

Mary Renault (pronounced Ren-olt) (4 September 1905 – 13 December 1983) born Eileen Mary Challans, was an English writer best known for her historical novels set in Ancient Greece. In addition to vivid fictional portrayals of Theseus, Socrates, Plato and Alexander the Great, she wrote a non-fiction biography of Alexander. Biography Born at Dacre Lodge, 49 Plashet Road, Forest Gate, Essex (now in London), Renault was educated at St Hugh's College, Oxford, then an all-women's college, receiving an undergraduate degree in English in 1928. In 1933 she began training as a nurse at the Radcli...

Si.

Cerberus

20:26

Hmm I may have heard of her.

Too bad she died the year I was born.

Robusto

That would have made contact difficult, yes. But homophrosyne may yet be possible.

Cerberus

Does it work like a Vulcan mind-meld?

Robusto

You're the classical scholar, you tell me.

Cerberus

I see.

RegDwighт

@KitFox no, I don't know that, in point of fact.

KitFox

20:38

Mods can't earn that badge unless they lose their diamond.

RegDwighт

Well that is so not what the badge description says.

And good thing I learn it now and not two years ago.

Well, then I guess I can go on hiatus for an au pair year, and then get myself elected again. Or just never come back cuz au pair is where's the big sponduli's at.

KitFox

I looked it up recently because I didn't get the other one.

@RegDwighт No, no, no!

RegDwighт

Which other one?

KitFox

@RegDwighт The other helpful flags one. The mini marshal.

RegDwighт

Uh.

KitFox

20:41

sighs Hang on, I'll look.

RegDwighт

Deputy.

KitFox

Deputy.

Jinx!

RegDwighт

But I am a Deputy.

Jinx.

Meta-jinx.

KitFox

Too slow.

RegDwighт

And I gotta run.

KitFox

20:42

Bye!

RegDwighт

No u.

Over and out.

KitFox

@RegDwighт You must have gotten it before your diamond or before they changed the rules, because I can't get it.

Matt Эллен

deputy dawg?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…