English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

21:00

We have fresh-squeezed tangerine juice at my local Whole Foods here this time of year. It is better than orange juice even.

Cerberus

It doesn't taste like fresh juice at all. Freshly pressed orange juice doesn't taste fresh either, after a day.

@tchrist That's great. How fresh?

tchrist

Well, they make it there at the store, on site.

Cerberus

On the same day?

tchrist

It can be.

It sells very quickly, so they restock frequently.

Cerberus

We have this orange stand that's usually opposite the supermarket. They sell freshly pressed juice, but I suspect that they might add water.

tchrist

21:02

It would never sit there unbought for a week.

Cerberus

Such stands often do.

tchrist

No, this is very strong. No added water.

Cerberus

@tchrist Have you tried pressing orange juice, then drinking it the next day? Not nearly as good.

It needs to be really fresh.

tchrist

Don’t let it oxidize.

That is what screws it up.

You must keep it in a closed container.

Cerberus

I store my oranges in the fridge, just so that I can have fresh and cool orange juice in summer. Adding ice dilutes it too much.

tchrist

21:03

If you keep it in an open pitcher, it oxidizes.

Cerberus

Yes, but even closed container will contain lots of air, unless you fill it to the rim.

I haven't tested that.

tchrist

I really see nothing wrong with making it from high-grade concentrate and drinking it right away. Do not use as much water as they tell you to. Yes, I have tasted all the variants. It is not worth the price.

I have another nice summer drink. Make iced tea, and cut fresh oranges into it, with fresh mint.

Cerberus

Why and how would you concentrate fresh juice?

Concentrate cannot be fresh.

@tchrist Sounds good.

Won't the orange peel make it bitter?

tchrist

Well, you squeeze the slices a bit, and you drink it reasonably quickly. Plus people sometimes add sugar to their own glasses, although you don’t have to given the orange juice. I like orange and lime slices both, but you really need the fresh garden mint.

We always had both lemon and lime slices in our iced tea as kids, but I have come to prefer orange slices over lemon ones there sometimes during the summer.

It sweetens it.

Cerberus

21:19

Nice.

tchrist

Also, both my mom and I have always grown massive amounts of garden mint, so there is always mint for (summertime) iced tea. It seems incomplete without it.

Do you get satsumas in Europe?

There are a type of mandarin/tangerine.

Cerberus

Never heard of it.

tchrist

Citrus unshiu

Citrus unshiu is a seedless and easy-peeling citrus species, also known as cold hardy mandarin, satsuma mandarin, In Japan, it is known as mikan or formally unshu mikan (Japanese: , unshū mikan). In China, it is known as Wenzhou migan (), the Japanese name is a result of the local reading of the same characters used in the Chinese. In both languages, the name meaning "Honey Citrus of Wenzhou", Wenzhou being a city in Zhejiang province, China. It is also often known as "Seedless mandarin" (). One of the English names for the fruit, "satsuma", is derived from the former Satsuma Provinc...

Cerberus

I would call that a mandarin.

I know there are several (sub)species of small orange citri.

tchrist

They are very loose-skinned and seedless.

Cerberus

21:24

We have seedless species.

tchrist

The mandarins and clementines sold here usually have tighter skin than the satsumas. The name was new to me, too.

Cerberus

And I actually like the yellowish, thin-skinned kind of "mandarin" best, so perhaps we do have satsusomethings.

tchrist

But they are fabulous. They have a short season, centered about Christmas, and at most extending from Thanksgiving to Valentine’s.

Cerberus

We have things sold as clementines, but I call them all mandarins. Most people don't know what's what here, including myself.

tchrist

It is more cold-hardy than most citrus.

In Spain, things sold as clementines are larger than things sold as mandarins.

Cerberus

21:26

The problem with most mandarins that they are not acidic enough, and too sweet-bland.

tchrist

Here, it is usually the reverse of that, which I do not understand.

Cerberus

I hate most.

tchrist

You mean they are bland?

Cerberus

Basically. But other people might call that "sweet" and actually like it.

I dislike most mandarin-like fruits sold here.

Especially when they're old.

tchrist

I almost always prefer tangerine-group to orange-group. It does depend a bit on the fruit and on my mood.

Yes, the clementines mass-marketed here as Cuties tend to be small and dried out and tasteless. Those are hate-worthy.

They would be fed to livestock in Spain, not sold to people.

Cerberus

21:28

I distinguish only between oranges and mandarins.

tchrist

Tangerine-group comprises tangerines, clementines, mandarins.

I am too medicated to know if there is a better term for that, or more members.

A satsuma is a kind of mandarin, but it is not the icky dried out things they sell as Cuties.

They are all easier to peel than oranges.

And aren’t usually as sour.

But miracle berry makes a lemon taste like an orange.

Here is an article about all these from the UK Independent.

Cerberus

I like sour!

tchrist

So apparently Britain knows of satsumas as well, so I bet they are also in your markets.

No miracle berry for you then.

Cerberus

I would always eat oranges, but their fibrosity is annoying. Or whatever you call it.

I know about these berries.

tchrist

A clementine is sweeter than a satsuma.

You mean the white stuff is annoying?

> So, how do you distinguish between a tangerine and a clementine, between a satsuma and an ordinary mandarin?

> Interestingly, it is now believed that mandarins may have been the original orange and along with citrons (related to lemons) and pummelo (a type of grapefruit ) were the three primordial varieties from which all the other varieties of citrus fruits – lemons, limes, sweet and sour oranges etc – later derived.

Cerberus

21:37

@tchrist No, the transparent stuff that gives the pieces structure/texture.

The stuff they burn away with chemicals for canned mandarin.

tchrist

Oh.

Membrane.

Cerberus

Actually, there are factories where they burn it away, and those where women peel it away, I believe. Hmm not sure about the latter.

Yes, the membranes.

tchrist

> But seeds or no seeds, satsuma or clementine, tangerine or tangelo, there remains an elemental quality uniting all these fruits in our minds. It is an elusive matter, but somehow they combine an integral symbolism of the festive season, where they revive memories of excited Christmas mornings for even the most jaded of adults, with an ability to deliver a taste of warm sunshine onto our chilled winter palates.

They are Christmassy fruit.

Cerberus

We make mandarin candles at Christmas.

It's really easy.

tchrist

How?

Cerberus

21:39

Peel it so that you get the entire peel off in two parts.

A bottom and a top.

The bottom needs to include the white thingie that's in the bottom centre and goes up. That's your wick.

Cut a whole in the lid.

Drop parafin or whatever you call it, candle-drip, from a candle onto the wick.

It needs to be sort of drenched.

Some parafin will end up at thebottom, around the wick. That's good. The more you add, the longer until it burns out.

tchrist

So you use the shell/hull/peel of a mandarin to pour wax into? Why?

Cerberus

You could probably full up half the bottom part with wax, and it will burn for a long time.

Because it is fun to do, you can easily do it at the dinner table with your bare hands, and it gives a very pleasant orange light.

It takes about 5–10 minutes.

tchrist

Ok.

Cerberus

I meant a hole in the lid, obviously, or the flame will burn the lid.

tchrist

Sounds like one of those projects that would be good for snow-bound kids.

Cerberus

21:44

You should try it sometime, at a family dinner.

It is really cool. People will be surprised and impressed.

tchrist

This question somehow amuses me in my stupor:

1

Q: English equivalent of Catalan expression "fer la senyora" for moving heavy furniture

There is an expression in Catalan: Fer la senyora Which would be translated as moving it "like a lady" defined as the action of moving a heavy piece of furniture (e.g. a wardrobe) that involves lifting from one side, tilting and turning it forward, then letting the lifted side touch the flo...

That’s fer as in French faire, of course.

Cerberus

tchrist

That is pretty.

Cerberus

And very easy.

And safe, in that the peel doesn't really burn well.

It blackens.

tchrist

Oh.

Cerberus

21:47

Maybe not leave the room for too long.

tchrist

Is it aromatic?

I was worried about that, yes.

Cerberus

It is often a bit aromatic, because the lid will usually blacken a little bit. Smells good and Christmassy.

The edges around the hole.

@tchrist Makes me think of far' il gentilhuomo.

But that is a different kind of fare.

Play the gentleman, as you no doubt know.

tchrist

That is kinda the same, I think.

Make like a woman.

Cerberus

Ah yes, I didn't read the entire description.

It is.

This is the one I made at Christmas.

tchrist

Phone “camera”?

Cerberus

21:53

Yup.

tchrist

Candle light is always challenging to photograph well.

Cerberus

Actually my last snapshot camera was no better.

tchrist

There are white balance issues and exposure issues.

Cerberus

An old digital Olympus.

Especially exposure, I would say.

Always grainy.

tchrist

That looks a bit not warm enough, and a bit over-exposed, and the ISO is super-jacked into the land of waving grain.

Cerberus

21:55

Yeah.

It's not going to get any better.

tchrist

Sure it is.

Cerberus

Not with my phone.

tchrist

Of course not.

It is a phone.

Not a camera.

Cerberus

That's what I'm saying.

I tried this HDR programme, which takes three shots at different exposures and combines them, but that is even worse in very low light.

tchrist

With an SLR, you can fix all those things. But fixing the white balance in analogue requires a blue filter.

Cerberus

21:56

It does work well if you're shooting against the sun.

Sure, a good camera is nice.

tchrist

And you cannot fix it in digital, really. Not enough blue no matter what.

Cerberus

But it is expensive, and not something you will have with all the time.

tchrist

But you do not want true white balancing in candle light.

Your camera does not know that, so tries too hard.

Cerberus

It's stupid.

Now I have to run.

I wish you a good afternoon!

tchrist

Trying.

Should lie down.

Cerberus

21:58

Are you still sick?

tchrist

Bye.

Cerberus

That's long.

tchrist

New sick.

Strep throat.

Cerberus

Unrelated?

tchrist

Damn airports.

Cerberus

21:58

Oh, that sucks.

tchrist

Yes, unrelated.

Cerberus

Aspirin/paracetamol?

Work pretty well for me, with a sore throat.

Or, no, maybe Ibuprofen.

tchrist

This is bad sore throat, plus sinusitis and bronchitis.

Cerberus

I forgot what I took last time.

That sucks.

tchrist

Got arithromycin, prednisone, codeine.

Cerberus

21:59

Well, nothing I can do about it now...take care!

tchrist

They were worried because my lungs were kinda wheezing.

Yes, thanks. Bye. run.

Cerberus

poof

MετάEd

22:23

@Cerberus I knew it.

@tchrist Generally speaking, people tell.

user19161

22:47

Hello @theta!

user19161

@Cerberus Looks as lovely as you!

HaLaBi

guys, I got a simple question

is there any other name for the "name badges"

the ones employees put in their shirts.. like in hotels..

@JasperLoy hi there

Johan Larsson

Jon Skeet visited C#, he might still be there

user19161

@HaLaBi You deleted your account.

user19161

@JohanLarsson He posted an answer here but deleted it long ago.

HaLaBi

22:50

@JasperLoy yup I did.. u still remember ;)

Johan Larsson

@JasperLoy on ELU?

user19161

@JohanLarsson Yes.

user19161

@HaLaBi Yes. I remember it all.

HaLaBi

@JasperLoy good that I am remembered.. I suppose :) now can you tell me if there are other names for the "name badges"?

user19161

@HaLaBi No idea what they are.

HaLaBi

22:56

ok thanks

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