English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

David Wallace

00:00

What might that external evidence comprise?

Cerberus

> She held the door ajar.

@DavidWallace Older usage? The way related words work?

Perhaps all "adjectives" that cannot be used before a noun are basically adverbial in nature?

Or perhaps it doesn't matter.

David Wallace

Maybe. I'll have to think about some more examples.

I shall have to start using "ajar" attributively, and see how people react. It could be like when I started using "outstand" as a verb.

Cerberus

Umm.

How does one use "outstand" as a verb?

> She outstood of the house.

David Wallace

There were some outstanding issues this morning, but maybe some of them have ceased to outstand.

Cerberus

Like that?

Uh.

Out-standing comes from "stand out", not "outstand"...

Good luck dealing with people's reactions...

David Wallace

00:10

I don't see what's wrong with outstand. It seems like a perfectly good verb to me.

Cerberus

Then why did you bring it up?

David Wallace

Because when I used it that way, people reacted in much the same way as I anticipate they might react if I start saying things like "the ajar window in the bathroom was letting in a draft that chilled the entire house".

Cerberus

Yeah.

I would correct that.

David Wallace

I should look for an answer, rather than just rant about it.

tchrist

@DavidWallace Moose. Kid. Joey. Kite. Griffon. Bumble. Gull. Chickadee. Weaver. Bluebird. Turtle. Fisher. Cat. Fly. Mole. Demon. Angel. Chip(monk:). Warren (rabbits). See here for confirmation.

Not a lot of Rhinos, though.

David Wallace

00:15

keepandshare.com/doc/57650/predicate-adjectives

Who calls their kid Turtle?

tchrist

I dunno, it’s in their list.

As a boys’ name.

Or maybe a boy’s name if there’s only one of them.

David Wallace

Of course. You'd never call a girl Turtle.

Everybody would Mock Turtle.

tchrist

But Terrapin would be a girls’ name. Call her Terra for short.

Maybe Woodie is short for Woodpecker. That would be so cruel.

David Wallace

Woodrow, actually.

tchrist

Gosh, Moss is a name.

Moose I knew, but not Moss.

David Wallace

00:18

Moss Burmester

tchrist

Like Moose Petersen, for example.

Fish names don’t work so well, apart from Marlin.

No Salmon, not quite.

David Wallace

John Dory?

tchrist

Yes.

I think girls can be named Delphine, or something like that.

Her brother could be Orca.

David Wallace

Orca sounds female to me.

tchrist

Oh.

Like Ilya? :)

What are all those funny English names for birds of prey that they used to hawk with?

Some of those might be in there.

There really was a kid name Falcon in the news here not that long ago.

I bet there are now some Peregrines out there.

Kestrel, Hobby, Merlin, Tercel, Laneret. Probably not Bustard.

David Wallace

00:26

According to that site that you linked to ...
The popularity of Ew is: 6.139
(where 0 = extremely rare, 6 = super popular)

tchrist

Ewe!

David Wallace

whereas ...

tchrist

Antipodean names: Koala, Kakapo, Wallaby, Possum, Roo.

David Wallace

The popularity of Maria is: 5.900
(where 0 = extremely rare, 6 = super popular)

Of course, there are far more Ews in the world than Marias.

tchrist

Speak for Ewself.

Loras?

David Wallace

00:28

Possum Bourne

I have met two different women called Tui.

tchrist

Stallion.

David Wallace

I don't know why I didn't think of it before.

tchrist

Not much in the way of barnyard beasts. Who names their kid Hog?

Hawkeye!

David Wallace

Bull Allen

tchrist

I’d said Bull earlier, I think maybe.

Foal could be a girl’s name. I still think Colt is a boy’s name.

David Wallace

00:32

The popularity of Heifer is: 2.185
(where 0 = extremely rare, 6 = super popular)

Oh, and let's not forget Jenny.

tchrist

Right.

I can see Hart, but not Hind.

Buck of course, but not Doe.

David Wallace

That site also claims ...

> Based on popular usage, it is 2.979 times more common for Richard to be a boy's name.

So, umm, 25% of Richards are female? I doubt it.

tchrist

I think I’ve heard of some female Rickies.

David Wallace

Probably short for Richelle.

tchrist

Sounds black.

KitFox

00:35

The return of the prodigal daughter.

tchrist

We’re still animating.

Rooster Cogburn.

Clem is kinda close to clam.

KitFox

Three hours later and you're still talking about animal names?

tchrist

No.

David Wallace

@tchrist Huh? There was a (blonde white) character called Richelle in a NZ TV series.

tchrist

There was a sizable lacuna.

Allegedly 20 "Blackest" Boy Names: DeShawn, DeAndre, Marquis, Darnell, Terrell, Malik, Trevon, Tyrone, Willie, Dominique, Demetrius, Reginald, Jamal, Maurice, Jalen, Darius, Xavier, Terrance, Andre, Darryl.

Disbelieve.

David Wallace

00:40

Oh, no, apparently Rochelle. I was sure it was Richelle.

tchrist

> 20 "Blackest" Girl Names: Imani, Ebony, Shanice, Aaliyah, Precious, Nia, Deja, Diamond, Asia, Aliyah, Jada, Tierra, Tiara, Kiara, Jazmine, Jasmin, Jazmin, Jasmine, Alexus, Raven.

David Wallace

And the only Dominique I know is female, and white.

tchrist

Me, too.

Dominic is a boy’s name, though.

David Wallace

Reginald? Seriously?

tchrist

That’s why I disbelieved.

But apparently it makes a difference in résumé call-backs.

David Wallace

00:41

Darryl?

tchrist

I only know white ones.

> 20 "Whitest" Boy Names: Jake, Connor, Tanner, Wyatt, Cody, Dustin, Luke, Jack, Scott, Logan, Cole, Lucas, Bradley, Jacob, Garrett, Dylan, Maxwell, Hunter, Brett, Colin.

> 20 "Whitest" Girl Names: Molly, Amy, Claire, Emily, Katie, Madeline, Katelyn, Emma, Abigail, Carly, Jenna, Heather, Katherine, Caitlin, Kaitlin, Holly, Allison, Kaitlyn, Hannah, Kathryn.

David Wallace

How many spelling variants of Caitlin are you allowed?

tchrist

►

David Wallace

Cornbreesha?

tchrist

Maybe black names exist because the parents want to make sure the kid’s name isn’t mistaken for one belonging to some persecuted minority. Enoch. Moses. Ezekiel. Yaakov.

David Wallace

00:51

And I can't hear Asia as a name, without thinking of Aja Rock - pronounced Asia.

tchrist

Vladimir. Black people never name their kids Vladimir.

David Wallace

Apart from this guy's parents

KitFox

01:34

I am so close to finishing my very first novel! I'm trying to edge out @Matt, but I am pretty sure he will be the first one past the post.

Mahnax

Wow, nice work!

KitFox

Matt's at 47K.

I'm trying to get ahead of him tonight.

How are you doing @Mahnax?

Mahnax

I'm almost at 45k, but I haven't written anything yet today.

Cerberus

Well done! Almost.

Mahnax

I'm going for 2k words tonight, 2k tomorrow night, and then finishing the night after.

Cerberus

01:37

Wow.

KitFox

I'm around 46K, but I only just started writing tonight. I hope to squeeze in 2K as well.

Cerberus

@tchrist How are your French listening skills?

►

KitFox

I'm around 800 words.

Mahnax

There was one day where I wrote four thousand words, I think.

I was behind.

KitFox

Wow!

Mahnax

01:38

Yep, it was just over four thousand.

Cerberus

@tchrist I really don't hear "désormais" there, but I don't understand what I hear. Où tu repose/a {tout?} jamais is what I seem to hear.

KitFox

The best I've done is around 2500.

@Cerberus That's what I thought too.

Mahnax

I've done one 4100 and one 3300.

Cerberus

@KitFox Hmm odd. Can you make anything out of it?

David Wallace

@Cerberus I also hear tout jamais there.

Cerberus

01:40

That is, can you make out what she sings between repos- and -jamais?

KitFox

Not tout. Sounds more like moue.

Cerberus

No t?

@DavidWallace Right.

KitFox

OK, tout.

Cerberus

I seem to hear an occlusive. It could be à bout?

KitFox

It occurred to me to look at her lips.

Cerberus

01:41

Not that that would make sense.

Hmm ah.

KitFox

abut?

David Wallace

Listening again, I think dou.

I mean, doux, obviously.

Cerberus

Or maybe à coup...I really have no idea.

KitFox

Oh, yeah, doux would make sense.

David Wallace

And I'm not sure whether it's j'amais (I loved) or jamais (never).

KitFox

01:44

No, jamais. Where you never slept well.

That seems to make sense.

Cerberus

►

In this version I definitely hear tou-.

David Wallace

I don't think it's reposes either.

I don't hear an S sound.

Cerberus

@KitFox Hmm où tu reposas tout jamais, I like it.

tchrist

@Cerberus I agree with what you heard, rather than what’s subtitled.

Cerberus

OK.

David Wallace

01:46

OK, so could it be "doux" - where you never slept sweetly?

I'm still not buying reposes / reposas at all.

Cerberus

Perhaps...but I seem to hear a t.

I definitely hear repos-.

KitFox

où tu repose à tout jamais would make sense. If I could remember how to accent it.

Cerberus

*reposes

David Wallace

Umm, "tout jamais" means "forever", right?

Cerberus

I'm not sure that is good French...

tchrist

01:48

reposes à tout might be being misheard as reposas à tout. I don’t know if I believe passé simple there.

Cerberus

À tout jamais is idiomatic.

KitFox

@DavidWallace Yeah.

David Wallace

@tchrist No, that would be 2 Ss, where I hear zero.

Cerberus

@DavidWallace You would hear z and zero, respectively.

KitFox

It's not reposes. It's repose.

David Wallace

01:49

I hear neither Z nor S.

Cerberus

@KitFox Uhm how is that grammatical?

tchrist

@KitFox With tu? How?

Cerberus

Repose and reposes sound identical anyway.

tchrist

Modulo liaison.

Cerberus

It must be où tu reposes à tout jamais, I think we have solved it.

tchrist

01:50

Or maybe even with.

I wonder why it is mis-subtitled.

Cerberus

Yeah.

David Wallace

Isn't reposer transitive? You have to write tu te reposes? Or do I have that completely wrong?

Cerberus

Perhaps there was another version that they took the lyrics from.

tchrist

You mean reflexive?

David Wallace

Yeah, well reflexive unless you rest something else.

KitFox

01:51

Ergh. I didn't mean that. I meant reposas and reposes respectively.

David Wallace

Like I rest my weary head.

Cerberus

I don't think it is or has to be reflexive.

@KitFox Ah OK.

tchrist

I’d have to go dig into the paper shelves.

Cerberus

Now for the grand finale, I will check the lyrics. I'm sure I can find them easily.

KitFox

Desormais does kind of make sense. It's just not what she's singing.

David Wallace

01:53

I'm not happy about not being able to hear her sibilants.

tchrist

Maybe she has an unlisp.

KitFox

You shouldn't hear the final s on reposes, should you? I suppose maybe if she elided it...

David Wallace

No, I mean the previous S.

Cerberus

@KitFox Yeah, and à tout jamais makes just as much sense, same meaning.

KitFox

Oh. That makes sense. The backup singers sing "desormais."

I guess that means she's dead?

tchrist

01:55

What is this mamy thing? I hear Mommy.

KitFox

Mamé ish.

David Wallace

Don't make me link to the tomatoes again.

Definitely Mamy.

KitFox

I can't remember the tomatoes sentence.

David Wallace

@KitFox You recorded it yourself too!

KitFox

Oh my God, there's no tomatoes.

I had to go listen to it again.

David Wallace

01:57

See, you can do it if you try.

Cerberus

@KitFox I hoped they would, but I don't hear it...

@tchrist Mamy is mommy, yes.

KitFox

@DavidWallace Hahaha. Apparently I kept @Mr.Shiny's too. rofl

David Wallace

in lɪŋˈgwɪstɪks, May 27 at 3:00, by Cerberus

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dcsqwz9ahtc7c9/tomatoes2.wmv

@KitFox I intended to keep yours, but the laptop that I downloaded it to is now fried. I shall have to boot it off a disc, and see what can be salvaged from the hard drive. I may or may not get to enjoy your dulcet tones again.

KitFox

I can upload it again.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…