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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

00:01
@alphabet Plurimos!
Ignorabam te tam diu linguam Latinam didicisse.
Immo bene scribere posse!
00:15
@Cerberus I just had one year of Latin in the 7th grade but I can understand or at least guess your dialog :-)
@jlliagre Ergo bene didicisti tuum unum annum!
I'm afraid not that much :-)
Immo!
Maybe.
Vero pauca scriptavi. Plerumque necesse fuit solum legere.
00:23
Ita est ubique.
Apud universitatem uno solo cursui adfuimus de scribendo.
@Cerberus To become a fort en thème.
Adjective: fort en thème (feminine forte en thème, masculine plural forts en thème, feminine plural fortes en thème)
  1. (informal, literally) good at translation (especially into Latin and Ancient Greek)
  2. (informal) nerdy
Noun: fort en thème m (plural forts en thème, feminine forte en thème)
  1. (informal, literally) person who is good at translation (especially into Latin and Ancient Greek)
  2. (informal) nerd, egghead
  3. Synonym: intello
@GratefulDisciple post-Socratics are a drag man
It's like it's all so .... arbitrary
The whole soccer match between the Germ and Greek philosophers comes to mind
@jlliagre Oh, cool, do you know why thème is used to mean translation?
Also the drinking song
I don't get people who don't get Monty python
@Cerberus Tell me.
00:30
@jlliagre No idea!
@Cerberus elephantus non capit murem
Sed quatit?
Tamen Senecam legere posse fuit utile studiis meis de philosophia.
@jlliagre I'm still waiting for your finished puzzle. taps foot
51 mins ago, by jlliagre
First Puzzle
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00:34
@alphabet Utillimum credo!
@jlliagre Yay, you made it!
01:11
@Cerberus Stoicorum Veterum Fragmenta quoque. Non facile!
(Partes cuius numquam translati esse videntur. Cur? Cur sic me tormentavi? Nescio.)
@alphabet Oh, cool, all (reported) things that the Stoics said?
Doesn't look like easy reading!
Also a lot of Greek.
@Cerberus The surviving excerpts from the early Stoics whose works have all been lost. I only had to read a few sections.
But yeah, there are no complete published translations of this book. Ugh.
Fortunately the section titles and the introductory material are in fairly accessible Latin. The text is a mixture. If they cite a section from (say) Diogenes Laertius, you can at least find translations of that work, of course.
Of course, then you have to decide whether it's one of those obviously made-up jokes that Diogenes Laertius repeats as factual, like that thing about Pyrrho trying to walk off cliffs.
01:36
@alphabet What I saw at first glance was more like, "Zeno agreed with this".
Remind me again, in what programme did you read this?
@Cerberus Most of it consists of (say) excerpts from Cicero and Plutarch who claim to be repeating what they read from Chrysippus or what have you.
Yeah, that is what I saw.
Not even repeating but referring to.
Thesis for my philosophy major.
I chose to read this. Nobody assigned it to me.
I don't know why I did that either.
Ahh OK.
Of course we choose the sources that we need, when writing a thesis.
So well chosen.
Yes.
I also majored in Computer Science, of course. I ended up going into the field where you can find jobs.
02:02
@Cerberus Not sure the distinction exists in English or other languages but in French academics, a translation from Latin or Greek is called a version while a translation to Latin or Greek is called a thème. No need to guess why version is used because it comes from the Latin versionem/versio with a similar meaning. Thème comes from tesma (topic/subject) / thema / θέμα and it is unclear when and why it started to get this specific meaning.
Maybe at first the idea was you were given in French a thème (a subject) and you had to elaborate on it (in Latin or Greek).
@alphabet I may need to do that too.
The school might fire me.
And I like programming.
So maybe I should look there. But...I have no education in it.
And, what with AI, I bet programming jobs are much harder to find?
@Cerberus You don't need no education.
@jlliagre Right, that last bit is what I was wondering about.
@jlliagre That may very well be true.
@jlliagre Are you sure?
Maybe not during the peak.
@jlliagre I learned programming on my own in my 40s and I never wanted for work. Maybe it was the time for that, but on the other hand maybe I just clicked with it.
Oh, you never got a diploma in the field?
02:11
I had actually been programming for fun for a decade, but that's when I went for making myself useful.
@Cerberus I assume by "fire" you mean "lay off"?
@Cerberus True. No diploma in CS.
"Another Brick in the Wall" is a three-part composition on Pink Floyd's 1979 album The Wall, written by the bassist, Roger Waters. "Part 2", a protest song against corporal punishment and rigid and abusive schooling, features a children's choir. At the suggestion of the producer, Bob Ezrin, Pink Floyd added elements of disco. "Part 2" was Pink Floyd's first UK single since "Point Me at the Sky" (1968). It sold more than four million copies worldwide and topped singles charts in 14 countries, including the UK and the US. It was nominated for a Grammy Award and was ranked number 384 on Rolling Stone...
The hiring market has gotten tougher lately, I hear, but I don't know by how much.
02:14
@Robusto I suppose I am in a similar position, maybe. But now the job market is probably less favourable, and you possibly had more to show for yourself?
@alphabet What is the difference?
@alphabet So I feared.
Word of the morn: magnetotellurics
@Cerberus "Fire" often suggests that you specifically did something wrong leading to your expulsion.
@Robusto Cool! I learned C++ with a self-teaching book in the 2000s
The book came with a diskette that contained exercises :)
@Cerberus It was the Wild West when I got into it. I had to figure things out for myself. Tom West, who was the head of the Eclipse project for Data General back when there was a Data General, said he didn't like to hire people who got CS degrees because they would learn all the wrong things. That may still be true, I don't know. What I do know is that I could figure things out that a lot of CS grads couldn't.
@alphabet Oh, I didn't.
I just didn't want to make it sounds euphemistic.
02:22
> 'If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.' (Frank Zappa)
@Robusto Good to know. And how long ago was this?
@Cerberus From about the mid-90s right up until I retired in 2016.
Ah, OK.
It must be different now, thirty years after you began.
Different, yes, in many ways. But if I wanted a job I could get one. I still turn away work from companies and people I used to work with.
Frankly, I'd rather be riding.
That is good to know.
But...you are very experienced with a big CV now.
02:31
@Cerberus You could make your own CV and send it around. Look at the technologies you would need to get a job in a certain area, learn them, code some examples for show, and then start hunting for work. Be bold, and make no apologies about it.
You literally have nothing to lose by doing that.
@Robusto True.
You think code examples help if you have no education in the field?
I think people did this a few years ago.
I wonder whether it still works.
@Cerberus I was thinking more about creating your own apps, that sort of thing.
With the cooler job market.
@Robusto Right.
I could make a website or figure out how to make an Android application.
One problem is...the quickest way for me to make an Android application is probably by asking GPT to just do it haha.
Tell them you'd take on a project. Once you get somebody to try you, and you succeed for them, you're in.
Worst case you can use that as an example of your work you can show to someone else.
Right! If I were to get that far, be hired at all, I think that would be the main hurdle.
02:36
@Cerberus Well, don't do that. Android apps aren't that hard, and it's a good place to start these days.
Yeah, I wouldn't.
Or maybe as an example only.
And if there's an area that someone needs you to be good in on a prospective project, just tell them you already know that. Then learn it! None of this stuff is hard. Learning is fun, programming is fun, completing projects is fun. Do the math.
I feel that way too.
I just have no idea what the market is like now.
I do think GPT has shaken things up badly.
I could inform on Dutch fora.
You have good experience with AHK, and you didn't get a degree in that. You no doubt learned a lot of bad habits, but your coding has no doubt gotten better over time. It's the same with anything else in programming. Learn by doing.
@Cerberus One way to find out.
Yeah, and I can write stuff in Javascript, too.
Though I don't know about any frameworks, which is what all the kids use—at least until GPT.
02:43
@Cerberus Even better. Next try learning some kind of SQL, create a database and create a simple CRUD web app. Run it on Apache. Get CygWin for your PC and learn Unix.
Oh that sounds like a lot haha.
I have had to write simple commands to a Wordpress database in the past.
@Cerberus Even if they're using GPT they'll still be using it to do things that can be coded by hand. You won't learn a thing by using AI except how to avoid learning to do those things yourself. And what happens when the shit GPT turns out doesn't work? Those people better know how to code or they're done.
To replace all mentions of one domain with that of another.
@Robusto Oh, I didn't mean that I wanted to use GPT.
I just meant that I was curious to what extent demand for programmers has changed with the advent of GPT.
The point is, you have nothing to lose by improving yourself.
@Cerberus I'm sure there are sources for that kind of information.
Yeah I can try to research it a bit and ask people in the know.
@Cerberus Sounds good. Now I have to go, but let me leave you with this: you're smart, you already like programming, and you can find a way to do that for money. Even in this day and age. Believe it. Believe in yourself!
You're a combo of 30 trillion cells!
@Robusto Aw that is sweet of you, thanks.
Later!
This situation at work may at last make me change things up and do something—which I am not known for...
03:01
Believe in your cells!
I don't know.
I think that since we now know that we consist of cells, "Believe in yourself" should be replaced with "Believe in yourcells"
It's more democratic
@CowperKettle I have heard this slant before!
Pretty nice!
03:36
@CowperKettle One of the more serious STDs.
Seriously, it is.
Although it is the only one where I think the person infecting the other is the most devastated, usually.
At least it's preventable.
Curable, too, in some jurisdictions.
Yes.
 
1 hour later…
05:04
@GratefulDisciple Hey, sorry, I missed this message.
In Greek mythology, the Charites (; Ancient Greek: Χάριτες) or Graces were three or more goddesses of charm, beauty, nature, human creativity, goodwill, and fertility. Hesiod names three – Aglaea ("Shining"), Euphrosyne ("Joy"), and Thalia ("Blooming") – and names Aglaea as the youngest and the wife of Hephaestus. In Roman mythology they were known as the Gratiae, the "Graces". Some sources use the appellation "Charis" as the name of one of the Charites, and equate her with Aglaea, as she too is referred to as the wife of Hephaestus. The Charites were usually considered the daughters of Zeus and...
The Fates are a common motif in European polytheism, most frequently represented as a trio of goddesses. The Fates shape the destiny of each human, often expressed in textile metaphors such as spinning fibers into yarn, or weaving threads on a loom. The trio are generally conceived of as sisters and are often given the names Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos, which are the names of the Moirai, the version of the Fates who appear in Greek mythology. These divine figures are often artistically depicted as beautiful maidens with consideration to their serious responsibility: the life of mortals. Poets...
 
7 hours later…
11:44
@CowperKettle well there are plenty of exceptions to each of the pointers mentioned in the abstract
My 'normative' definition of a disease is something that a high proportion of people afflicted with seek to treat.
A high proportion of people don't seek to 'treat' their big nose, so a big nose isn't a disease. Likewise for pregnancy. Or old age.
'Like disease, pregnancy is caused by a pathogen' I don't even wanna dignify that with an analysis
@CowperKettle I'm about +480 minutes.
@jlliagre same here
Though now I've parked illegally in front of a medical center chatting on my phone
You didn't need that information but there you have it
Wondering if he can monetize that information.
Only if you build parking lots
The likelihood of that is small but something arrow something take the shot
11:59
It seems English has no straightforward translation for délation.
@Cerberus Thanks. I was about to ask again. Never heard of them before since they are rarely mentioned. I wonder how they were invoked / worshipped / sacrificed to (in temple, etc) in a Greek / Roman times.
@jlliagre GT says "informing" or "denouncement" and those two are pretty different
@jlliagre You can use it in English, but it's not very common and mostly confined to matters of law.
> An accusing or bringing a charge against, esp. on the part of an informer; informing against; accusation, denouncement, criminal information.
A délation is a shameful denouncement, made for bad reasons, immoral, like telling your neighbor is hiding jews to the gestapo.
Tattling on someone, turning someone in.
Not sure those always sound immoral.
12:16
Besides tattletale I can think of "snitch on" and "rat out" but again, doesn't connotate immoral.
Looks like Dutch has verklikking that looks close.
My primary school deskmate used to tattle on me when I forgot to do my homework. Even so, I never think what she did was immoral, just greatly unnecessary and annoying :-) .
@GratefulDisciple yes, exactly right
It was usually preceded by her urging me "to confess" or "to come clean" ("ngaku" in Indonesian), an act that may have a moral connotation in both languages, but when I refused, maybe she felt it was her moral duty to tattle on me. Still remember her name.
12:31
Oh, that's telling on somebody.
@Cerberus I was 18, my parents were in their early 50s.
> wraying Old English–1425

information 1387–1660
The action of imparting accusatory or incriminatory intelligence against a person; an instance of this, a charge, an accusation. Obsolete.

promotion ?1533

The accusing or denouncing of offenders against the law. Cf. promote, v. III.6. Obsolete.

talebearing 1571–
The carrying of injurious or malicious reports. Also attributive.

delation 1578–
An accusing or bringing a charge against, esp. on the part of an informer; informing against; accusation, denouncement, criminal information.
@tchrist yes, I think that's better suited in my case. At any rate. the teacher did ask: "Please raise your hand if you didn't do your homework!" and I didn't want to.
> I.11.c.
Chiefly colloquial. To disclose something wished to be kept secret; to play the informer, inform, tell tales, blab.
I.11.c.i.
1537–
intransitive. With on, (less commonly) of (a person).
Apparently rare before the 18th cent.
On hindsight maybe she instinctively cared for my character for me to do the right thing? Or was it just spite since she did hers?
12:43
Maybe ratting on someone, ratting someone out. These are former criminal slang.
There's some betrayal involved.
I think I did try to shhhhh her (keep her quiet) before she "ratted me out".
I think I did try to shhhhh her (keep her quiet) before she "ratted me out". Did feel a slight amount of betrayal there. I was ready to be quiet if she were to forget to do her homework.
> I.1.b. 1912– intransitive. With on. To abandon a person or cause, to desert; to renege or default on. Also occasionally with out: to back out on; to betray, let down.
Just since 1969, really?
Also Nark.
46 transitive verbs for informing on someone.
@Conrado Odd that that one first appeared late in Queen Victoria's reign.
> 1.b. 1894– intransitive. To act as an informer; to inform on.
@Mitch Really? As a programmer and musician I gravitate to a harmonious system that systematize everything under the sun, so to me Plato and Aristotle systems are anything but arbitrary.
@Mitch But yes, of course the history of Western philosophy sees competing systems, although wouldn't we as humans (philosophical system is created for human) want to pick the most satisfying winner?
13:04
> 1859, "to act as a police informer" (v.); 1860, "police informer" (n.), probably from Romany nak "nose," from Hindi nak, from Sanskrit nakra, which probably is related to Sanskrit nasa "nose" (from PIE root *nas- "nose"). Sense and spelling tending to merge with etymologically unrelated narc (q.v.). Etymonline
@tchrist Did it just mean "nosey", like a busybody?
> E. Partridge Dict. Underworld (1949) at cited word suggests that the word may be shortened < French narquois (adjective) mocking (1842), cunning, deceitful (1694; earlier in sense ‘slang’ 1653), (noun; now archaic) vagabond soldier (c1590), (obsolete) thief, crook (1620; also in sense ‘slang’ (1611)), of uncertain origin.
Narquois. I like that.
"You nasty narkwah, mind your own beeswax!"
Also, this is the first time I hear of Welsh Romani.
"She's way too narquoise for you."
@Conrado hahah are you teasing?
Related and possible duplication. In English, "BE the first time that" always requires that you use the perfect aspect in the following clause, but which one depends on the tense you use for be. — tchrist ♦ 56 mins ago
> Also, this is the first time that I've (ever) heard of Welsh Romani.
Are you hanging out with too many L2 English speakers? :)
@tchrist No, I truly didn't know that, and I didn't read the chat logs for the day. I'm not trolling today, just being my normal dense self.
okokok
> That was the first time (that) I'd (ever) heard of Welsh Romani.
So is the first time that takes have + PP, while was the first time that takes had + PP.
And I have no idea what to do with That will have been the first time that. :)
I think I'd just give up and say That must have been the first time she ever heard that.
I don't know that I'd feel constrained to use had in the second clause in that case.
13:17
@tchrist Haha. Yes, that is probably the case. I am part of a relatively isolated and partially aculturated bubble of English-speaking US and English expats (that is my old folks and my brothers) in the Southern Cone.
> Surely that will have been the very first time she'll have heard that!
Very dubious.
Angloparlante is the word I wanted but its cognate apparently isn't in the lexicon.
That's because it's anglohablante.
:)
Me imagino que serán anglophones en su lengua.
Because X + phone means speaker of X.
In English.
Whereas X + hablante is the same thing in Spanish. The X + parlante thing is some Gallic intrusion. :)
@tchrist Ah, yes. That is the word that I was trying to remember.
Of parlous history.
13:53
@Robusto Thanks, will do that. By the way, I'm in the middle of reading his 1950 Nobel lecture: What Desires Are Politically Important? which is surprisingly very relevant in America in recent years. The History was published in 1946 and was cited as one of the books that won him the award. I have a strong hunch that the lecture contains motifs in the book.
14:19
@GratefulDisciple I was making fun (also repeating a Steve Martin but) about how sophomoric and pseudo philosophic it is. Before college like a child you think everything is rule based and the rules haves rules and everything is preordained and then after your first class in philosophy you flip and feel like everything can be questioned there are no rules and anything goes (ie "it'ss all so arbitrary")
@GratefulDisciple I've read Russell's intro to Western Phil too but I can't remember anything except you can't step into the same river twice and there are two competing trends in Western culture, classicism and romanticism and the pendulum swings back and forth between them. (That's actually adding to the memory I had)
@Mitch Thus the soccer match between the Greeks, the Medieval, the British, and the German (continental) philosophers.
So I think there's room for people to some people to be satisfied by one, and some by the other to varying degrees and trends cycle between the two because people hype up one, get sick of it and want to remember the other, back and forth for eternity like it's all so arbitrary man
But yeah that's way more than I remember .
I've heard that other (modern) philosophers thought intro to Western Phil was simplistic and not accurate, but I thought it was very accessible and informative. (Those two things may be consistent)
@Mitch that sounds like high school chemistry
@Mitch what if the river bends and makes a U-turn
I like Russell because he spent 12 years of the most important years of his life proving 1+1=2 using only rules of logic (ie no Peano axioms - that would be too easy!).
@Mitch I got your perspective, I think. In contrast, I come to philosophy expecting from it as a discipline that integrates all other disciplines to see the forest instead of the trees. And despite beholding nature as mechanistic (as a kid), I was more impressed by its beauty (Indonesia is beautiful) and humans as producer of beautiful things (Bach, Mozart), thus I expect philosophy to yield a knowledge of "how nature fits together" and how "humans cognize nature" as a kid and now.
So to me the "satisfying" criteria is a philosophy that shows whether the Center Hold (textbook used in my Philosophy 101 course).
14:33
@M.A.R. everything you were taught in school is wrong.
I also know how to give someone a tracheotomy with a butter knife and a ball point pen. I learned it from a tiktok video short
@Mitch Herakleitos
@Mitch That river thing is Heraclitus on philosophy of change (see Wikipedia).
jinx
@M.A.R. that one sticks in my craw. Look I just stepped into it, I stepped out, now I stepped into it effing again. A second time. Twice. I just effing did it.
@Mitch Wasn't he the one who tried to come up with a logical foundation for mathematics? But philosophy is much more than Math!
14:35
@MetaEd bless you!
Can I get you a tissue?
@Mitch the tissue neither is, nor is not, nor both is and is not, nor neither is nor is not.
@Mitch to be fair most everything taught outside school is also wrong, but we make do
@GratefulDisciple yes. That's exactly what I'm alluding to, the 'logicist' program as a foundation of mathematics. But that is philosophy of mathematics, which as you say is not all of philosophy.
@MetaEd after you've used it, I'd rather it not.
@MetaEd spelling it with a 'k' makes it sound so foreign
I realize I say that as a foreigner
@M.A.R. It's just Greek to me.
14:39
Hippokrates
@M.A.R. see! Everything is arbitrary, we can't know anything for certain, it's all in doubt, even what I'm saying now. Why bother with anything at all?
I can't even decide between heroin and fentanyl.
Play Toe.
Katarina Wittgenstein, the most thoughtful skater.
@Mitch Is she any relation to Ludwig Wittgenstein?
@GratefulDisciple He's getting silly now, is all you need to know.
#travle #763 +2
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https://travle.earth
@Robusto Got it :-). But this illustrates the impact of skepticism of our ability to really know nature, that I think Russell links with Subjectivism (as a way to cope) identified in his Introduction. I'm looking forward to reading how he deals with Aristotle and Aquinas (and their moderate realism) because it's in between Skepticism and Dogma.
@Mitch Vanity, everything is vanity? :-)
Connections
Puzzle #584
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@Mitch Oh, I got it Katarina Witt.
14:59
@tchrist Or just Catalan.
#WhenTaken #323 (15.01.2025)

I scored 827/1000🏅

1️⃣📍435 m - 🗓️6 yrs - 🥇193/200
2️⃣📍352 km - 🗓️22 yrs - 🥈136/200
3️⃣📍16.4 km - 🗓️1 yrs - 🥇198/200
4️⃣📍1.5K km - 🗓️6 yrs - 🥈153/200
5️⃣📍1.6 km - 🗓️22 yrs - 🥈147/200

https://whentaken.com
Wordle 1,306 3/6

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@Mitch I'm glad when I had my tonsillectomy (in primary school) there was no TikTok yet.
15:21
@GratefulDisciple She's the half sister of Ludwig and a second cousin once removed former late ex-girlfriend of his barber.
@Robusto I've barely started...
... like Lady Godiva's horse after a loud noise.
Jan 10 at 16:44, by Mitch
@GratefulDisciple searching ELU search for 'there's nothing new under the sun'.
@Mitch Your favorite quote, yes I already did (you dared me).
@Mitch Between any 2 people there are at most six degrees of separation?
Connections
Puzzle #584
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@GratefulDisciple Oh wow... she was in Ronin. Awesome movie.
@Mitch seeks shelter
@Mitch They don't make them like that anymore.
15:30
@GratefulDisciple On the other hand... well you're giving the other hand, I'm going back to the first hand, you can see every possible surgery on youtube. Which, as you allude to, is maybe not such a great thing. I don't know if I'd want to see my bowel being resected... or anyone's really. Sure, intellectual curiosity, potential training even, but morbid curiosity and vicarious imagining someone else's pain maybe not.
Strands #318
“Thar she blows!”
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@GratefulDisciple There are probably some some groups of people in the amazon who really really would not want to be connected to us at all.
@Mitch Everything under the sun is on YouTube?
@Robusto A potential example for OED's definition of 'boat load'
I was going to say 'shit storm' but that's unnecessarily dysphemistic.
@Robusto That Donald Palmer textbook (the 500+ illustrations are entertaining) has quote from Russell's The Problems of Philosophy (c. 1912, indicating he was into philosophy from early on):
> Philosophy is to be studied, not for the sake of any definite answers to its questions, since no definite answers can, as a rule, be known to be true, but rather for the sake of the questions themselves; because these questions enlarge our conception of what is possible, enrich our intellectual imagination, and diminish the dogmatic assurance which closes the mind against speculation;
> but above all because, through the greatness of the universe which philosophy contemplates, the mind also is rendered great, and becomes capable of that union with the universe which constitutes its highest good.
15:33
@Mitch File under banana boat load.
Yes, I wrote that simply to motivate saying 'dysphemistic'.
@GratefulDisciple As the swaying goes, "It's better to ask some of the questions than to know all of the answers."
@Robusto Of course, I completely agree with that. I'm beginning to feel that humanity needs to mount a campaign to highlight our distinctiveness against artificial intelligences that don't ask questions.
Amazing how Sisyphus keeps cropping up, innit?
Anyway, gotta go and freeze on a bike ride. Laterz.
@Robusto Have a good ride. I need to start working too. TTYL.
15:36
@Robusto Going through my memory of it... the whole final set piece at the skating competition is kind of out of place, and feels arbitrary and cartoonish. Which is funny because for those who don't care for such movies, the whole thing is probably cartoonish. But, as I am one who cares for such movies, I think everything up until the skating rink scene is entirely realistic.
@Mitch Will put Ronin in my list of movie to watch. Have a good day!
@GratefulDisciple Unfortunately no. There's quite a lot. But not absolutely everything.
If you want to know how to tie your shoelaces without letting go, using mathematical topology, yes it's there.
If you want that one album you had as a kid... maybe they have it, maybe you have to pay for it, maybe it's as though it doesn't exist.
@GratefulDisciple Be forewarned, there's a lot of shooting.
Fun if you like that sort of thing.
Not as much as John Wick.
More than Pride and Prejudice.
A little closer to John Wick than Pride and Prejudice.
@Mitch Seeing Robert de Niro starring it, not surprising.
Though in that one movie, or was it Emma?, she gets a nose bleed.
-on screen-
I thought that was a little much though.
@Mitch Keanu Reeves as a hitman? Feels right wrong casting.
15:41
@GratefulDisciple Also Jean Reno, and Natasha McElhone, and that guy from Brazil.
The movie, not the country.
@Mitch It was an accident but the director kept it (see here).
@GratefulDisciple Yes. The first one is awesome.
Also the other ones.
But with more shooting.
@GratefulDisciple Yes. As a person who is not a director or connected with movie making whatsoever, I thought it was a bad decision. Really changed the tone of things.
There is a place for ultra-realism, let's say like in Sid and Nancy Gosford Park.
That one bit in Emma is just totally out of place.
@Mitch I don't think it adds anything either, so I agree with you. Should have done a retake.
@Mitch Yeah, looks like the violence is quite graphic; not the kind of movies I usually watch.
@GratefulDisciple It's not like digital recording has a high cost, like there is with film.
@GratefulDisciple Yes, it's in the mindless graphic violence category.
as opposed to the motivated thrilling fear of light violence category.
@Mitch Yup.
15:48
But as we have established (@Cerberus) fist fight scenes tend towards the ... stupid. As esthetically meaningful as a sports movie.
Unless there is motivated choreography.
Like in a Jackie Chan movie.
@alphabet
A raccoon coat is a full-length fur coat made of raccoon pelts, which became a fashion fad in the United States during the 1920s. Such coats were particularly popular with male college students in the middle and later years of the decade. Many automobiles in the 1920s still had open tops or were made of wood and canvas, and had poor heaters or no heaters at all, and the speed of these automobiles was increasing where winter drives without heat became very uncomfortable. Purportedly fur coats became popular due to this, and due to the stories of Davy Crockett and popular artist James Van Der Zee...
> A raccoon coat is a full-length fur coat made of raccoon pelts, which became a fashion fad in the United States during the 1920s. Such coats were particularly popular with male college students in the middle and later years of the decade.
@Mitch I was about to say. And Jackie Chan adds humor.
Or for esthetically meaningful, like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
Nice talking to you. Gotta go.
@GratefulDisciple Yeah. The plots and continuity and acting are pretty awful in Jackie Chan movies. But the humor and choreography and stunts are pretty unattainable by anybody else.
@GratefulDisciple same 🫡
15:55
@Mitch (before I go) Yes, that's the feeling I got from reading modern philosophy, a lot of whiplash compared to the classical + medieval periods where it was more of philosopher building on or diverging on relatively minor issues while maintaining a large common ground.
16:14
> Arrested by AI: Police ignore standards after facial recognition matches Confident in unproven facial recognition technology, sometimes investigators skip steps; at least eight Americans have been wrongfully arrested.
16:57
@CowperKettle Such cruelty. Imagine the outrage if raccoons started wearing human coats.
17:15
@alphabet I know man that's plain robbery.
I mean raccoons are commies right so there's no property as such so it's not like it's a big deal for them if you 'borrow' their coat.
@CowperKettle It's making me anxious wondering whether web browse that article.
17:48
@Mitch I was wrong; reading that article turns out it was planned in the script! The unplanned was that it was naturally provided due to actress's own stress, rather than artificially provided by the makeup artist.
Wordle 1,306 4/6

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18:02
Strands #318
“Thar she blows!”
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@Mitch Back to Katarina, she discovered 3,500 pages on her by the secret police! How would you feel if the NSA has been keeping tab on you, do you feel special, chagrinned, offended, fearful, or I-knew-it-all-along? Reminds me of a good movie Das Leben der Anderen.
Strands #318
“Thar she blows!”
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18:18
Hi, guys. Can I check with you these sentences? Do they sound natural enough to say?

1. Being alone doesn't scare me, but knowing I'm not does.
2. Perun is the Slavic god of thunder.
3. Chasing her, he eventually got out of breath, stopped and sat on the ground to rest.
4. The blow made him breathless. He couln't breathe for a few seconds.
5. It is absolutely criminal how underrated this era of Black Sabbath was.
18:28
@Mitch it's important that we know that we don't know anything, otherwise we'd be like everyone else
@MichaelRybkin 3 is wordy. "Chasing her, he eventually sat down to catch his breath."
@MichaelRybkin 1) It's easier for the reader if you insert a comma between "not" and "does. 4) It's not clear what "blow" means. Was he hit by someone or accidently ran into a pole, etc.? Or was he blowing (a balloon)? If the latter, I would say "Blowing [the balloon] made him breathless." Or probably more idiomatic to say "gasping for breath".
@MichaelRybkin an idiomatic way of putting 4 is "The blow knocked the wind out of him"
Though @Grateful is right in that whether or not that sentence makes sense depends on what 'the blow' is.
18:46
@GratefulDisciple I disagree about the comma.
@GratefulDisciple By "the blow" I meant something like a punch.
@MichaelRybkin These are all fine, though some are less fine than others.
I would put a comma after "stopped" in #3. Works without it, though.
The Oxford comma.
For #4 a native speaker would likely write: "The blow knocked the wind out of him. He couldn't breathe for a few seconds."
@M.A.R. Thank you very much.
18:50
@Cerberus Not really. I think that you don't want to run together the list here, especially since "stopped" does better with the sudden arrest brought about by a comma.
@GratefulDisciple I appreciate your help.
@Robusto Got that. Thank you very much.
> got out of breath, stopped, and sat on the ground
A tricolon.
@Robusto If I'm an actor given the line "Being alone doesn't scare me, but knowing that I'm not does", wouldn't it be more natural to insert a pause between "not" and "does"? Am I right that not putting a comma there is a matter of writing style?
An enumeration of three parts.
@GratefulDisciple Sure, but it makes a separation between the the subject and the verb of that clause, which makes me feel icky.
18:54
@Cerberus Couldn't resist to re-post this.
Cf. "Patriots fight, cowards run." Try putting a comment in that, if you dare.
@GratefulDisciple Haha right.
@GratefulDisciple I believe you don't need a comma here because "knowing I'm not" is the subject of "does". You don't separate the subject and the predicate with a comma. I think that's how it usually works. And I think that is what was meant when Robusto said that you don't need a comma there.
@Robusto I feel it(,) too.
But I know some people would place a comma there.
So to some extent it is a matter of style. Then again, what isn't?
Yes.
18:57
@MichaelRybkin Grammatically, sure. I guess I have been guilty of putting a comma when I would pause when speaking the sentence. This is an area where I feel I still need to learn.
In the well-worn witticism (WWW) "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach" one rather requires a comma, I think, else the latter clause sounds too much like a subject without a verb because of the two senses of the auxiliary.
@GratefulDisciple Got ya, my friend.
@Robusto Good example. It does feel icky in this example.
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