English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

CowperKettle

00:48

@Cerberus Oh

Cerberus

02:15

The new fruit, Priscus said, would be outwith the scope of the usufruct.

> "Outwith" is a British antonym of "within". The word is of Scots origin, and is less recognised outwith Scotland than within it. It features in British Standard English printed publications.

M.A.R.

That's so trippy. I can barely picture what "within" means

Cerberus

Woohoo you have a new colour!

Now I need to make Mitch red and all will be good.

Vikas

02:35

Questions on graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions?tab=Newest has significantly reduced. Couple of years ago there were guaranteed at least 10 questions asked per day. Now too less.

Cerberus

AI?

Vikas

Could be. But I'm not sure.

Cerberus

People in this chat said the number of questions was already decreasing before GPT.

Vikas

@Cerberus Questions in the chat?

Cerberus

No, on various SE sites.

Vikas

02:46

Maybe covid lockdowns changed something.

Cerberus

No idea.

I don't see an immediate conexion.

Vikas

05:27

Word of the day: Conexion

Cerberus

It is the etymologically proper spelling!

At least that is what I have always assumed.

Criggie

05:45

@Cerberus There's some Technology behind that (waits for reference gettation....)

Cerberus

trying to follow

Criggie

Technology Connections

Technology Connections is an American YouTube channel covering the history and mechanics of consumer electronics, home appliances, and other pieces of technology, created by Alec Watson of Chicago, Illinois. Subjects of focus include transportation, HVAC, refrigeration, photography, and home audio and video, among others. The channel, which has received praise for Watson's humor and the depth and insight of his research, has amassed a large following on YouTube. == Channel == Watson registered the Technology Connections channel on YouTube in November 2014, with his first video, exploring Alexander...

whaddabout that guy ?

Cerberus

06:25

Oh, I had not heard of it.

CowperKettle

08:53

Mitch

11:28

@Criggie that guy's awesome

@Cerberus give me a compliment

CowperKettle

11:57

Gammalsvenskby

Gammalsvenskby (Gammalsvenska: Gammölsvänskbi, lit. 'Old Swedish Village'; Ukrainian: Старошведське, romanized: Staroshvedske; German: Alt-Schwedendorf) is a former village that is now a neighbourhood of Zmiivka (Ukrainian: Зміївка) in Beryslav Raion of Kherson Oblast, Ukraine. It was briefly known as Verbivka (Ukrainian: Вербівка) prior to being integrated with Zmiivka. Gammalsvenskby is known for its Estonian Swedish cultural heritage. Zmiyivka also includes three former villages settled by ethnic Germans: The Lutheran villages of Schlangendorf and Mühlhausendorf and the Roman Catholic village...

alphabet

13:21

@Cerberus It's one of those words where Webster advocated for the more "logical" spelling to save us from the evil British aristocracy.

MetaEd

13:36

Wordle 1,219 4/6

⬛⬛⬛⬛🟨
🟨⬛⬛🟩⬛
⬛🟩🟩🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Robusto

#travle #676 +1
✅🟧✅✅✅✅✅
https://travle.earth

I disagree with their route. My original intention was more direct.

CowperKettle

Adynation of the day: One can expect an agreement between philosophers sooner than between clocks -- by Seneca, in The Pumpkinification of (the Divine) Claudius

Apocolocyntosis

The Apocolocyntosis (divi) Claudii, literally The Pumpkinification of (the Divine) Claudius, is a satire on the Roman emperor Claudius, which, according to Cassius Dio, was written by Seneca the Younger. A partly extant Menippean satire, an anonymous work called Ludus de morte Divi Claudii ("Play on the Death of the Divine Claudius") in its surviving manuscripts, may or may not be identical to the text mentioned by Cassius Dio. "Apocolocyntosis" is a word play on "apotheosis", the process by which dead Roman emperors were recognized as gods. == Authorship == The Ludus de morte Divi Claudii is one...

"Apocolocyntosis" is a word play on "apotheosis", the process by which dead Roman emperors were recognized as gods.

LOL

Robusto

13:58

#WhenTaken #236 (20.10.2024)

I scored 909/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 35 km - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 198 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 70 km - 🗓️ 3 yrs - ⚡ 194 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 3 km - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 560 km - 🗓️ 8 yrs - ⚡ 172 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 302 km - 🗓️ 20 yrs - ⚡ 145 / 200

https://whentaken.com

CowperKettle

Former mayor of Vladivostok has been sentenced to 15 years of jail for corruption, and enrolled to fight in Ukraine. His predecessor had been sentenced to 12 years of the same for the same, and is already at the front. Who needs O.Henry when you can just read Russian news.

Robusto

Wordle 1,219 3/6

⬛⬛⬛🟩⬛
⬛🟨⬛🟨🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

CowperKettle

The best thing since bloodletting.

Robusto

@CowperKettle Prevention and elimination of colds by terminating life.

Vikas

15:14

Is any of you also like me - I listen/watch the songs/movies the least which I love the most. So, they remain fresh forever.

Robusto

15:27

@Vikas I go a honeymoon period with songs and other music, then get tired of it, but always come back.

Vikas

I always avoid listening a song until I get tired/bored.

But I do listen some songs in loop if they are just for focus while working on something. I don't do that with my favorite songs.

Robusto

@Vikas Drinking until you're full doesn't mean you never drink again.

Besides, it's great to keep on finding new music to love.

Vikas

15:48

@Robusto I do but I tend to like less the new music.

Robusto

@Vikas There's all kinds of music out there. You don't need to stick with the current pop music.

Vikas

16:01

@Robusto I sometimes discover "new" old music.

CowperKettle

> A two-fold increase in genetically-predicted alcohol use disorder prevalence was associated with a 16 % increase in dementia cases (IVW OR=1.16[1.03-1.30]), and a one standard deviation increase in log-transformed drinks per week was associated with a 15 % increase (IVW OR=1.15[1.03-1.27]).

What is the meaning of "log-transformed drinks per week"? I wonder if this can be somehow put in words for the lay reader.

Robusto

Daily Octordle #1000
5️⃣🔟
🕛9️⃣
4️⃣6️⃣
8️⃣🕚
Score: 65

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle meaning they drew a plot where 10 drinks corresponded to the number 1 and 100 (!) drinks to 2.

A less compact but more understandable passing would naturally go like "there was a correlation between x and the number of drinks on a logarithmic scale"

BTW I'm so happy you've gone back to translating @Cowp!

Robusto

Daily Sequence Octordle #1000
4️⃣5️⃣
6️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣9️⃣
🔟🕚
Score: 60

@M.A.R. So 100 drinks doesn't look like that much, eh?

M.A.R.

16:17

@CowperKettle if there was such a thing as "ultraprocessed humor" this would be it

Robusto

And here I thought the chief benefit of log-scale charts was so you could draw curves with a straight line. Who knew they let you drink more?

M.A.R.

@Robusto imagine if drug addicts were talked about the same way as alcoholics.

They get so much leeway

Robusto

@M.A.R. Lots more alcoholics out there. Unless you include them in drug addicts, since alcohol is itself a drug.

M.A.R.

There should be an image of a cirrhotic liver on high-alcohol drinks

M.A.R.

16:36

@CowperKettle should have just skipped the fancy stuff and gargled hydrochloric acid.

It goes to show the story state of the science of pharmacy only a century ago.

@CowperKettle oh I wonder if we could send the people that embezzled trillions of tomans to fight our proxy wars

jlliagre

17:01

#WhenTaken #236 (20.10.2024)

I scored 961/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 50 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 197 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 3 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 198 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 2 km - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 28 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 197 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 527 km - 🗓️ 10 yrs - ⚡ 169 / 200

https://whentaken.com

alphabet

17:11

@M.A.R. Do they though? I think here they're about equally stigmatized.

Robusto

17:59

Tightrope, a daily trivia game | Britannica

Oct. 20, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 2230

alphabet

Tightrope, a daily trivia game | Britannica

Oct. 20, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 2350

Cerberus

18:28

@Mitch Oh, you look so pretty and naughty, mister cat. Imagine how pretty you looked against the background of a red curtain.

@alphabet I forget who he was, but which was deemed the more logical spelling by him?

alphabet

@Cerberus He preferred connection, since the corresponding verb is connect. But connexion is closer to the immediate etymological predecessor.

Cerberus

OK.

alphabet

Noah Webster

Noah Webster (October 16, 1758 – May 28, 1843) was an American lexicographer, textbook pioneer, English-language spelling reformer, political writer, editor, and author. He has been called the "Father of American Scholarship and Education". His "Blue-Backed Speller" books taught generations of American children how to spell and read. Webster's name has become synonymous with "dictionary" in the United States, especially the modern Merriam-Webster dictionary that was first published in 1828 as An American Dictionary of the English Language. Born in West Hartford, Connecticut, Webster graduated from...

Cerberus

I actually believe just one n is enough.

alphabet

He's why we spell it color instead of colour. (Both spellings had been in existence for some time, but Webster convinced Americans to adopt the more "correct" one.)

Mitch

18:36

@Cerberus blushes

a lot

Oh

Oh no

Oh you mean in the picture.

Yeah red ain't my color

Or my background's

I am very happy with my dull gray

No one else can match it.

alphabet

@Cerberus I don't think anyone considers spelling it "conexion" to be correct.

Certainly it would suggest that the first syllable should be pronounced like cone rather than con.

Of course it comes from Latin connexiō, but there the double n indicates a geminated consonant rather than anything related to vowel quality.

Cerberus

@Mitch Another bright colour not being blue or green is also possible.

@alphabet What I mean is that I believe single n is considered more correct in Latin.

@alphabet Here we go again...

alphabet

@Cerberus If you spelled it with a single n it'd be pronounced differently. Note that Latin anus and annus weren't homophones; the double n in the latter indicates a phonemic difference in consonant length.

@Cerberus It's no different from spelling it "konnection."

Cerberus

@alphabet I don't know why you are saying this. It would also have a different number of letters.

@alphabet Can you think of no difference?

alphabet

@Cerberus Yes, but that's why the spelling with a double n is used in Latin; if you spelled it with a single n it wouldn't correspond to proper pronunciation.

@Cerberus No, there is literally no difference. People who know how to spell do not use conexion, which is why dictionaries don't list it.

Cerberus

18:47

@alphabet I don't understand this.

@alphabet I gave you a difference: one is more etymologically correct than another.

alphabet

@Cerberus You need to understand it to understand why it wouldn't be etymologically correct to misspell it with a single n.

Cerberus

I understand this even less.

But I don't really care for an uncoöperative discussion, I have made a simple remark and there isn't really much more to say about it.

alphabet

Sure. But I guarantee you that most native speakers will not perceive this spelling as any better than konnection or connecshun or the like.

Cerberus

You know that this type or argument holds no value for me. And yet you repeat it and repeat it.

Penguins also like fish.

alphabet

Most native speakers. 99% of well-educated native speakers.

Cerberus

18:57

You're still doing it.

It is like a debate between American presidential candidates.

No real conversation.

alphabet

You may recall from our argument earlier that the reason for adopting (say) spellings considered aesthetically pleasing, like the reason for adopting clothing that looks fashionable, is fundamentally a pragmatic one: it benefits you by improving how others perceive you.

Spelling it conexion or konnection or connecshun will have the same effect on listeners.

Cerberus

There are several things I disagree with in this argument.

But at least it is better than what you said above.

alphabet

Aww, thanks, you're too kind.

Aren't these arguments fun and productive?

Cerberus

Incredibly.

BTW I had a cuddle date yesterday.

And now I need to buy groceries.

alphabet

Incidentally: it seems conexio and connexio are both found in Latin. These would of course correspond to different pronunciations of the Latin word. I'm not sure why the latter ended up being the one that entered English.

@Cerberus Aww. I assume it went well?

Cerberus

19:13

@alphabet That is what I told you.

@alphabet Yeah we are friends, so it is not a date date.

But it was fun to do just cuddling.

alphabet

@Cerberus Compare it with conative; obviously there was no Latin spelling connative (because it wasn't derived from a prefix con-), so obviously only the single-letter spelling ended up in English.

Sorry, I mean that there was no Latin spelling connatio--the only Latin spelling was conatio.

alphabet

19:32

Of course Latin con(n)exio comes from con(n)ecto which comes from con- + -necto. conecto was (as I recall) the older pattern used for the con- prefix--with the extra n getting dropped.

The pattern in connecto--with the extra n (I assume?) creating a geminated consonant reflected in the spelling--apparently arrived later.

Of course the spelling conexion makes sense if and only if the spelling conect does.

alphabet

19:51

This actually happens with a few words--connubial from Latin con(n)ubium from con- + -nubo.

Huh.

(Oddly enough, Wiktionary provides a definition for English conubial: "Misspelling of connubial.")

I'm not sure why you'd make a dictionary entry for the sake of saying that something isn't a properly spelled word.

Cerberus

I wouldn't trust Wiktionary in this.

alphabet

@Cerberus Historically, most of my friends have been straight guys of the "all of us here are manly man men who do not cuddle" type.

Cerberus

20:06

I only cuddle with friends with benefits.

The verb is to conex, the noun conexion.

alphabet

Ah, that kind of friend, makes more sense.

Cerberus

Yeah.

Now you have learned the proper spelling.

alphabet

@Cerberus Ah. Like looksmaxxing.

Why that new coinage ended up with a doubled 'x' I do not know.

Cerberus

I didn't know that word, beautiful.

@alphabet Isn't it logical to geminnate the consonnant.

alphabet

@Cerberus The rule is that you don't double consonant letters that correspond to multiple consonant sounds. Note that the verb fax usually gives faxing rather than faxxing.

Cerberus

20:12

Just as in respectable words such as anti-vaxxer.

@alphabet Yes, faxxing is the correct spelling.

alphabet

@Cerberus It's a word for straight guys with body dysmorphia getting, e.g., surgical procedures to make themselves taller, or doing tongue exercises to make their jawlines sharper.

I Tried "Looksmaxxing"

►

Cerberus

Oh, true scientists.

h elooks like a different person.

In the first picture, he was closer to the lens or used a different camera, probably.

bigger nose.

And bigger eyes.

But I will tell him what needs unmaxxing, his hair.

alphabet

@Cerberus I think he mentions at the end of the video that he actually looked no different, he just took a picture with better lighting and such to prove how people were faking their own "before and after" photos.

Cerberus

I will believe it.

If there were exercises that you make your jawline look sharper, wouldn't those be widely known by now?

Surgery to become taller: maybe you could lengthen your leg bones a tiny bit, but wouldn't you either look weird or only minimally taller? And won't it result in problems if your bones are suddenly longer than your muscles, tendons, nerves, arteries?

alphabet

@Cerberus I suppose if they help you lose weight they would work.

@Cerberus This is actually a thing and apparently works reasonably well.

Cerberus

20:20

> The body has a natural ability to regenerate bone. For cosmetic height surgery, doctors break either your thigh bones or your shin bones, and insert a device that has the ability to lengthen. As the device slowly pulls the two bone segments apart, new bone forms in the space between them, and hardens. With one surgery, you can be up to three inches taller. With two surgeries, you could be up to six inches taller.

That's crazy.

How much is six inches.

Ok 15 cm.

Wouldn't you look weird if your legs were 15 cm longer??

@alphabet Oh, if that is the problem, then yeah.

alphabet

@Cerberus I mean, if I were 5'5" I could see myself wanting that surgery.

@Cerberus These exercises, though, involve holding your tongue in weird positions to "strengthen your jaw muscles" somehow (?!).

Cerberus

Yeah I think we'd know if that worked.

> Doctor Assayag says his patients do get back to normal with physical activity, but some lose "explosive power" like jumping or sprinting. A few months post-surgery, this patient can now walk on crutches, ..

Oh, all you lose is the ability to jump or run.

And how will your condition be thirty years later?

alphabet

Doesn't matter, point is you'll be able to get more girls, I think.

Cerberus

Oh, those people complaining about one thing in their appearance and blaming their low success on it.

I don't really care about height.

If someone is 15 cm shorter than I am, that's fine.

If it is 25, that is a small disadvantage but no deal-breaker.

alphabet

Moreso people willing to go to fairly extreme lengths to be more attractive. Usually because they think that they are currently extremely unattractive. Usually because of some sort of underlying body image issue.

Cerberus

20:25

I think so too.

I mean, in some cases I can understand it.

E.g. hair transplants or cutting away loose skin after having been very obese.

alphabet

Of course, one might reason that, if you spend $X to get a Y% change of being Z% more attractive, leading you to get N more partners of greater attractiveness, the calculation might show that the benefits outweigh the risks.

Cerberus

Or when there is really something wrong.

alphabet

But I'm not sure how you'd do that math.

Cerberus

Always the quantitative raccoon.

alphabet

I'm not wrong, though? You could certainly justify (say) plastic surgery that way; for some people it might genuinely provide sufficient benefits to outweigh the costs.

Cerberus

20:29

Only for some.

But, in many cases, I think it won't really increase their chance of success.

alphabet

I'm not sure how you'd actually calculate that in any sort of objective way, though.

Cerberus

For other, they could increase their chances far more by psychological and other means.

@alphabet That's the raccoon part.

alphabet

Imma develop a new service where you get a whole body MRI and then it tells you the most cost-effective set of cosmetic alterations that will result in you having a specific increased probability of getting a girlfriend someday.

How will the calculations work? AI, of course.

Cerberus

Makes perfect sense.

What if you're a girl but not lesbian?

alphabet

No straight woman would need to go to such extremes.

As I recall, straight men on Tinder swipe right 50% of the time, whereas straight women swipe right 5% of the time.

Cerberus

20:35

Right.

I have seen women swipe, it's crazy.

Although I must say I also say my yesterday's friend swipe, and he is the same, barely looks before swiping.

One of many explosions in Beirut from Israeli bombs.

Imagine living there.

alphabet

@Cerberus In what respect?

Cerberus

War is the greatest evil, bombing cities the apex of that.

@alphabet Very fast, disapproving over tiny things or not really looking at all.

alphabet

@Cerberus Imagine your government making and selling the vast majority of the bombs.

Cerberus

Still better than living there.

Laurel

@alphabet Pretty sure women are a tiny minority on most of these apps

I've never used dating apps tho

alphabet

20:40

@Laurel I suspect 90% of Tinder's revenue comes from men paying for "boosts" to show up in more womens' queues.

Cerberus

Ugh.

alphabet

@Cerberus Pretty much guaranteed when the app only shows you someone's picture and a few other data points unless you scroll down.

Cerberus

I always look at all of someone's pictures and read the profile text.

Unless I immediately know this person cannot be my type ever.

alphabet

I do also--though mostly because it lets me filter out people who (for whatever reason) I wouldn't be compatible with more quickly.

Cerberus

There is also that, absolutely.

I think it is also because a straight women gets to see sooo many more profiles than we do.

I remember reading about a gay man who let his straight friend do his swiping.

Mitch

20:44

@Cerberus OK now you've gone too far.

Cerberus

After not too long, she complained that his phone was broken.

Somehow, the app wouldn't show the next profile to her.

alphabet

@Laurel Because you actually find dates in person, or you aren't looking for them at all?

Cerberus

Then the gay man explained to her that she had swiped through all the gay men on Tinder; there wouldn't be any more profiles. She was shocked.

@Mitch You log reader!

alphabet

@Cerberus Because there are more straight men total, or because more of them use Tinder?

Cerberus

@alphabet Especially the former.

A straight woman can afford to swipe recklessly. There will always be more.

A straight man, less so.

A gay man/person, least of all.

Mitch

20:49

@Cerberus goes back years to find something to respond to

Laurel

@alphabet I'm dating someone I met at a Meetup rn. Before that, it was guys I met at school

alphabet

@Cerberus Yes. I've thought about moving to an actual big city someday in part for that reason.

Laurel

@Cerberus That sounds like you'd match with everyone

Mitch

Which is which, what is left vs right in swiping? Is it like 'press A to continue' on a play station console?

(which I also don't understand)

Cerberus

@Mitch Go back to when we first met.

@Laurel Isn't Meetup like an app where you arrange game nights and stuff?

Mitch

20:51

@Cerberus any keyword hints?

alphabet

@Laurel As a friend of mine put it: "Yeah, I don't try to get guys I meet in person, cause they might be straight and I don't wanna get hate-crimed."

Cerberus

@alphabet So you live too far from Boston?

@Laurel Hmm who is "you" and why?

Mitch

Too far in Boston

Cerberus

@Mitch I don't remember, it was 2010!

We could have had a pubescent child together by now.

Complaining about everything.

Mitch

Mar 2011is when I found chat here.

Cerberus

20:52

@Mitch I can never remember because I haven't used Tinder since 2014. But I think swiping right means you like someone, left, dislike.

Mitch

@Cerberus ugh gross

Laurel

@Cerberus There's all types of stuff. This was bowling & karaoke

alphabet

@Cerberus No, I'm near the very center of the city. But Boston isn't the biggest of big cities.

Mitch

@Cerberus how Roman

Laurel

@Cerberus Women on apps

Cerberus

20:53

@Mitch Yes, we are lucky that didn't happen.

@Laurel Sounds like a fun way to meet.

Mitch

@alphabet it's the smallest big city

Cerberus

@alphabet How big is it, then?

@Mitch Why Roman?

Mitch

@Cerberus we'd have to listen to them complain about puns.

That's our right!

Cerberus

@Laurel Oh, right: I think a woman will get lots of matches, yes.

Mitch

@Cerberus something something right side of the king something

Cerberus

20:54

@Mitch Several, even??

Mitch

Or was that just the French?

Cerberus

@Mitch Chess?

alphabet

@Cerberus That is...hard to measure exactly. The city is the 25th biggest in the US, but that's because a large percentage of the population lives just outside the city limits.

Mitch

@Cerberus what kind of games did Romans play?

Didn't Romans have the ... did they have anything like political parties in the Republican Senate?

alphabet

The obvious choice would be to move to NYC, which might be good for other reasons.

Cerberus

20:59

So the urban area is pretty big: not enough people for you?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…