English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

14:01

Can you afford to drop IE7 support?

If so, every major browser supports box-sizing

And if you MUST support IE7, but decide that box-sizing is a drug you can't live without, you can use this: github.com/Schepp/box-sizing-polyfill

Gah why did JA post pictures of calendar-girl pinups in his answer to Yoichi-san's question?

KitFox

And how old are his Playboys anyway?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That is his only post, question or answer, on the site!

KitFox

Well, that explains is objection to boobs.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

/sarcasm ?

KitFox

I'm not sure.

Robusto

14:08

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 See, that's the problem, though. The definition of "table" in that context is being overloaded and that makes it confusing. I would prefer a new value for the display rule, such as "spring-box" or whatever.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto I agree that a new label might help. But that might confuse other people too: 'why do tables use "spring-box, spring-row, spring-cell", etc?' or whatever.

Anyway, the reason display-table is better than a table, semantically, is that the semantics come from the HTML: it is a table, or it is something else. The presentation comes from the CSS: it looks like a table, or it looks like something else.

Robusto

I wish I had more time to discuss this. It's an important concept and an interesting discussion, but alas I have too much work to do.

Noah

Hi

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto I'm available for opnionating on this topic any time :)

So I LOLed when I saw that JA has like a million SE accounts, most at 101 points, except his Christianity acct, which stands at 96 pts, because he's used it for downvoting.

Noah

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Who is jA?

Matt Эллен

14:14

Jeff Atwood

Noah

Omm, okay.

I think he is raising kids and has no time to increase his reputation here on SE

Read his last post on coding horror where he explained his resignation from hist job at SE

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 He might be a relegious person

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Noah I doubt it. But I find it amusing that of all the millions of beta SE sites, that one is the one he took the time to downvote on.

Noah

@MattЭллен I dont really see on the list. are you online?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What about SO?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Noah Oh, I'm sure he votes on SO. But he also takes part on SO.

Not asking anything or answering anything on a site is not really taking part.

Noah

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah. Agree.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 do you see Matt on the list?

He has turned into some sort of Ninja?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:25

No, I don't see him.

maybe he logged off right away.

Noah

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Maybe.

I have a bad pain in my upper neck area

Ed Guiness

ahoy hoy.

Noah

Took a pill but doesnt seem to be helping.

Cerberus

Apply heat?

Ed Guiness

"An error occurred performing this action. Click here to remove this notification bar"

Noah

14:28

@Cerberus Serioulsy?

Ed Guiness

OK then. I did try.

Heat can help muscle aches.

Cerberus

@Noah Yes, that can help. As in, a hot/warm water bottle.

Noah

@EdGuiness Keep trying until your soul departs from your body.

Cerberus

Nothing too hot of course.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Noah what pill? when did you take it?

Cerberus

14:29

And make sure you're in a comfortable position.

Ed Guiness

@Noah too late.

Cerberus

Typing on a computer is usually done from an uncomfortable position.

Noah

@Cerberus Thanks

its_me

Hi, does anyone know what this sentence means?

> But with all his asceticism, Vinoba has resisted pride of poverty - that subtlest temptation of the saints.

Noah

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ACETAMENOPHIN

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:31

@Noah 325mg? 500mg? 650mg? 975mg? 1000mg?

Cerberus

Ascetism means you're abstaining from various things, like luxury, money, good food, etc.

So he will be poor.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus or poor-ish

Mitch

and pride can be considered non-ascetic.

Robusto

Whoa, I just got my 69th Enlightened badge. Three more and I get a set of steak knives or something.

Cerberus

Some ascetics will take pride in their poverty.

But pride is bad, however tempting it is as an emotion.

And Vinoba has resisted this tempting emotion: he's not proud of his poverty.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:32

@Cerberus bah. pride is not bad. excessive pride is bad.

Cerberus

He presumably doesn't express any emotion about his poverty.

Mitch

and pride can be is considered a very subtle form of vanity which is indulgence in onesself which is not ascetic.

Cerberus

@Mitch Exactly.

its_me

@Cerberus Ah, awesome explanation. Thanks a lot!

Cerberus

No prob!

Mitch

14:33

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 any pride can be considered bad (if you're in that particular philosophical frame of mind, like shooting for sainthood or nirvana)

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, there are several meanings of pride, and the typical Biblical meaning is a bit different from what you're thinking of...

Mitch

@Cerberus I bet you're proud of having come up with that observation.

Cerberus

@Mitch Alas, I cannot take credit for it.

Mitch

So humble.

Cerberus

No, not at all.

But you are indeed touching on the catch-22 of sainthood.

Mitch

14:38

I will catch you somehow on the dimension of pride!

@Cerberus or depression.

Cerberus

Heh.

Why depression?

Mitch

I'm mixing up a lot of stuff. a better example is nirvana.

er.. satori.. or whatever it is...enlighenment...being non-attached to the world.

Cerberus

Nirvana the band, right?

Mitch

poor guy killed himself.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch not enough pride.

Robusto

14:45

@Cerberus Don't forget Theophrastus and his indictment of the "petty-proud man" ...

Mitch

@Robusto I forgot.

Cerberus

@Mitch Yeah, 'twas sad.

@Robusto Hmm I don't remember that?

Mitch

@Robusto Theophrastus thinks he's hot-shit.

Robusto

Thought. He's dead now, Zeus rest him.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Shouldn't it be Hades rest him?

Robusto

14:48

Whoever. Them gods is all dead too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Pluto rest them.

Cerberus

@Robusto You little Nietzsche!

Be silent!

Mitch

@Cerberus that sounds flaggable.

Cerberus

Does it?

Floggable, perhaps.

Matt Эллен

hiya @Noah - yeah I answered then went to the shop

cornbread ninja

15:02

the ELL is back on?

Matt Эллен

yeah!

tchrist

What do some people say last half instead of latter half? Doesn’t the second sound better?

cornbread ninja

!!!

Matt Эллен

not to those people?

tchrist

Maybe it is a first/last thing instead of former/latter or earlier/latter/later.

But it should a first/second thing, not a first/last thing.

Dang it, the new N-grams doesn’t let you grab the image any longer!!

How do I get the image from here?

Cerberus

15:05

This is the age-old, multi-lingual debate about whether to say "he is the better of the pair" or "he is the best of the pair".

@tchrist Oh yes, that is annoying.

tchrist

This will revolutionize ELU.

No more dodgy ngrams.

Cerberus

Take a screenshot, then; the image was never that good, what with the lack of English/British/American info.

tchrist

Well, yes.

RegDwighт

Pah. Kids these days.

I always took screenshots and gimped them into shape, uphill both ways, barefoot in the snow.

tchrist

RegDwighт

15:08

@tchrist make the G+/Twitter shit disappear.

tchrist

At least that preserves all the needed parameterization.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт WTF??

tchrist

@RegDwighт You expect me to edit the image?

Cerberus

@RegDwighт You didn't draw an impression by hand, then deliver it by pigeon?

tchrist

That would be image alteration.

Reporters lose their jobs over that.

Cerberus

15:09

OMG headlines.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I did. But then I took a screenshot and gimped it into shape. What's so hard to understand?

Cerberus

Tchrist will lose his job as an Ngram-poster at the ELU room!!

RegDwighт

@tchrist we are not here to make free advertisement for Twitter.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Oh, of course.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Grosses me out, too.

MετάEd

15:10

@tchrist Maybe just get the data.

I have.

tchrist

To what purpose?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I'm not even joking. The second image here had to be pretty much drawn by hand. Google Docs won't allow you to combine two graph styles like that.

MετάEd

@tchrist So I can apply regular expressions, aggregate, that sort of thing.

Cerberus

RegDwighт

Cerberus

15:11

I don't have a Twitter button.

MετάEd

@tchrist Normalization.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus G+ shares are at 0? That's a bargain. Let me call my broker.

tchrist

@Cerberus You’re still advertising the Gay-Plus Sharathon.

MετάEd

Any damned thing I can think of.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Ah, yes. Nice.

@RegDwighт And that's all they'll ever be worth.

RegDwighт

15:13

@Cerberus You're too optimistic. Facebook started at 0, and they are well below that now.

tchrist

@MετάEd I would like to find the most frequently occurring word that falls immediately between a particular pair of words. Is that reasonably easy?

Cerberus

@tchrist Yeah, that's probably because I have to accept that cookie for something else to work. Or finding out which exact Google cookie I need and which I don't is too much work.

MετάEd

@tchrist That's a simple Perl script.

You know Perl?

:-P

Cerberus

@RegDwighт But you forget that Facebook moved up at some point. G+ has never left the placid zone of irrelevance.

@MετάEd Hey, have you tested the AHK script yet?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I mean the shares. The shares never went up. Not for a second.

MετάEd

15:14

The big issue is the data comes as flat files, not indexed. So you have to either iterate over all the lines or figure out your own indexing.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт I suppose not.

MετάEd

@Cerberus No, that's today's little project though.

Cerberus

OK.

RegDwighт

Cerberus

Well.

RegDwighт

15:18

I hear they have 1bn accounts now, rather than 0.901bn. That's 100000000 fake accounts in less than a year!

These guys must be busy.

Cerberus

Yay.

I know you're a big FB fan.

in The Frying Pan, 5 hours ago, by rumtscho

Totally unrelated.

It may amuse you. I knew zero, of course.

Except perhaps the Muppet.

RegDwighт

I recognize a couple, but it's got nothing to do with the shirts.

tchrist

@RegDwighт If you say so. I’m a 1-2-3-many guy, except on dice and cards. I can’t suss out 1e8 vs 1e9 w/o groupings.

Cerberus

What else is there to look at?

RegDwighт

Wayne's World, Jay and Silent Bob. These are not shirts.

Neither is James Dean.

It's rigged.

Cerberus

15:20

I have heard of James Dean.

Okay, that was all I got.

RegDwighт

Jack Nicholson could be anyone. They had to add hints of his facial features.

tchrist

Cerberus

I...would guess the left guy.

tchrist

No.

Right.

Cerberus

Oh.

Then I give up.

tchrist

15:22

The other is Rock Hudson.

RegDwighт

Why is Martin Semmelrogge going at Johnny Cash's nuts?

tchrist

Liz Taylor claims they weren’t really sleeping together.

Cerberus

Semmelrogge??

What a stupid name.

tchrist

Or that if they did, they had a big spat afterwards.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus google.com/…

Cerberus

15:24

Okay.

RegDwighт

tchrist

RegDwighт

Eww.

tchrist

Robusto

@Cerberus Interesting, the omission of punctuation in "what are you looking at dicknose": I would feel obliged to read the shirt aloud to its wearer as "What, are you looking at dicknose?" And then add, "Yes, I am." And look him right in the eye.

tchrist

15:26

Lotsa tude.

MετάEd

@tchrist Show me a cowboy who rides sidesaddle ...

Noah

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 500

Cerberus

@Robusto *in the nose

Robusto

Wevs.

Cerberus

But, yes, I agree.

tchrist

15:28

MετάEd

@tchrist Where do you find this stuff?

tchrist

Here.

MετάEd

@tchrist Damn you ... you used ... Google.

Cerberus

I don't get why people drink cocktails.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus why not? they taste good.

Noah

15:36

@Cerberus I dont get why people drink at all.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I don't think so.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus why do people drink beer? It tastes like crap.

Acquired taste.

Cerberus

@Noah For various reasons...mainly because it is a social habit, I think, and because it makes social interaction go a little bit smoother.

@RegDwighт Disagree!

RegDwighт

@Cerberus then you have instantly disqualified yourself.

Cocktails come closer to what you find in nature.

To make beer you have to jump through hoops.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Have not!

Nature is bad. It needs to be harnessed.

RegDwighт

15:38

Mar 7 '11 at 18:26, by RegDwight

►

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Lots of people disagree. Maybe the problem lies with you.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Or maybe there is no problem.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Oh, there are problems alright.

Cerberus

Like which?

Noah

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Why do we have to talk about problems? Problems, problems, problems.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:42

@Cerberus too many to list.

Cerberus

If some people enjoy sweet alcoholic drinks, spending tons of money on them, and waiting for half an hour at the bar, then let them.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus indeed! though "tons of money" and "waiting half an hour at the bar" are not part and parcel of "cocktails" in my experience.

But then I only have them in the carribbean.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus that is completely orthogonal to how a cocktail tastes.

You can wait half an hour for an icecream, too.

tchrist

Cocktail == Mixed Drink?

Noah

@Cerberus Some might just do it becuase others do it. They might be dragged by the crowd that they are in.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:45

@Noah well, they could still order a beer.

Noah

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hehehe, you got me there.

tchrist

RegDwighт

Detergent?

tchrist

Grasshopper.

RegDwighт

Ah. So yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:46

looks like a big glass of toothpaste

mmmmmmmmm!

tchrist

You prefer cicadas?

Noah

Paint

tchrist

Grasshopper (cocktail)

A grasshopper is a sweet, mint-flavored, after-dinner drink. The name of the drink is derived from its green color, which is provided by the crème de menthe. The drink reputedly originated at Tujague's, a landmark bar in the French Quarter of New Orleans, Louisiana, and gained popularity during the 1950s and 1960s throughout the American South. Composition A typical grasshopper cocktail consists of equal parts Crème de menthe, Crème de cacao and fresh cream, shaken with ice and strained into a chilled cocktail glass. Variations A "Vodka" or "Flying" Grasshopper substitutes vodka for fr...

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 well, everyone uses toothpaste. Even Cerberus.

tchrist

Actually, I’ve only ever had it with vanilla ice cream, not cream.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:48

@RegDwighт uses: yes. eats/drinks a big glass of? no.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Except where interdit par la loi.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

so mint + chocolate liqueur + cream is probably okay.

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 the absolute amount of mint is probably the same.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Snob.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus snob?

RegDwighт

15:50

Studs not on bottom.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Oh, so that makes it all right, then. Sure, I'll wait for half an hour!

@Noah Absolutely.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Depends on the stud.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I have no idea what you're talking about.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus You're missing the point

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, if all your friends are ordering cocktails...

RegDwighт

15:51

My point is, make your mind up what you're criticizing and then stick to it. No non sequiturs, no moving targets.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Scuse me? I just chew on some old bones if I want to clean my teeth.

tchrist

Nothing wrong with a drive-by shooting gallery.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 faints

@RegDwighт Why not?

Robusto

You can't run 'n' gun unless you're a moving target. QED.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus because nobody is going to argue with you if you are trolling.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:53

@Cerberus I don't see how it's relevant? when I go to a bar with a lot of friends, we often have to wait for whatever we order. Who cares if it's cocktails? Are you just whinging because a large order might have to wait for a large number of cocktails to be made, and that takes longer?

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Why not?

RegDwighт

Commute.

Robusto

Just like a commutist.

Noah

@RegDwighт You seem to be talking like a wise man today.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 A beer takes twenty seconds to make here. Cocktails often take twenty minutes, yes, in a cocktail bar.

Noah

15:54

@Robusto Or Communist

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus 20 mins for one cocktail?

ridiculous.

Robusto

@Noah Thanks for explaining my joke to me.

tchrist

@Cerberus I am pretty sure euros have a fucked up notion of what a cocktail is then.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It's probably a combination of taking a much longer time, inexperience (so many recipes to remember!), and bad logistics, but that is often what you will see. Part of the twenty minutes is waiting for back-orders to finish, probably.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Any place that can pour a glass of beer in literally 20s is going to be able to assemble a cocktail in maybe 120s. Sure, that' a big difference, but come on? 20 minutes? rubbish.

tchrist

15:56

A beer takes longer to make than a cocktail does.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus So what you don't like is cocktail bars, not cocktails then.

Robusto

@tchrist That depends on the exchange rate.

tchrist

A jigger of whisky and a squirt of soda is done in a trice, while drawing off a pint of ale from a cask without overflowing it takes some time.

So the cocktail is faster.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist well, that would depend on the cocktail. Some require blending, garnishing, etc.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I have literally waited that long.

tchrist

15:59

Well drinks do not require umbrellas.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The waiting is one aspect.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…