English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Araucaria - Him

00:03

@XanderHenderson @alphabet Welcome to the new world. Not required, but requested.

Xander Henderson

@Araucaria-Him Thank g-d I'm in academia.

I've never had to explain my presence on the web to anyone.

On the other hand, there is really nothing to explain, as I have no social media accounts (unless SE counts).

alphabet

Huh. I filled out a lot of job applications a couple years ago and I think some may have asked for my LinkedIn, but nothing else.

Xander Henderson

@alphabet I don't have a LinkedIn, either. Huzzah!

alphabet

I have LinkedIn because spam from recruiters makes me feel special.

Granted, if they'd asked for my Twitter or Facebook, I wouldn't've even noticed since I have neither.

There are some conversations in this chat that perhaps might not cast me in the best possible light, but I don't think I'd get fired for them.

Araucaria - Him

00:20

@alphabet Linked in's the same thing. No difference

Xander Henderson

@alphabet You are also pseudo-nonymous, and no one really knows if you are an actual trash panda or not.

CowperKettle

> If the patient is transportable, move them to a district-level hospital

I wonder how to write this in proper English.

The meaning is that the physical condition of the patient permits their transportation.

Xander Henderson

@CowperKettle That seems perfectly reasonable to me?

CowperKettle

@XanderHenderson Ah! Thank you!

Xander Henderson

Oh, I see. "If a patient is stable enough for transport"?

CowperKettle

00:23

Another Russian translator wrote "eligible for transfer" which gave some legalistic overtones to my taste;.

@XanderHenderson Very good! Thank you!

Xander Henderson

What is the original Russian?

CowperKettle

"пациент транспортабелен"

Xander Henderson

Oh, man... yeah. That is not terribly enlightening.

I like "stable enough to transfer / transport".

CowperKettle

Yes, it's not enlightening, because translators forget to provide details and context

Xander Henderson

Yeah.

CowperKettle

00:25

I was just reading a Russian translators' chat, and became curious

alphabet

@XanderHenderson Three of us have met in person; I'm sure the other two will confirm that I am, in fact, a raccoon.

So: this question should almost certainly go to ELL, but my question is: why does the speaker in their IELTS practice video talk in such an oddly stilted way?

Maybe I haven't done enough elocuting, but I don't think anybody actually talks like that.

jlliagre

00:49

@alphabet Glottophobia!

M.A.R.

01:02

@CowperKettle no rhyme or rhythm, just a bunch of, uh, poetry buzzwords crammed together. And it's not more than the sum of its parts. A Farsi speaker would only find it impressive if they didn't know AI could compose poems.

@CowperKettle stable

Mitch

@Araucaria-Him I think it is plausible that some interviewers might proffer, if that is indeed the word I am looking for, links to programming SE sites for programming jobs, somewhat like GitHub accounts for personal projects.

The label social media is somewhat irrelevant for the purpose. If the website has some personal job relevant info then that's OK to volunteer (by the applicant). Maybe some employers might ask for it as additional info. But necessary seems a bit too far.

M.A.R.

01:18

@CowperKettle it sounds like when people randomly cut their sentences in three to pretend it's a haiku

CowperKettle

01:47

@M.A.R. Ah! I found it on Twitter - some user was waxing poetic about how the text is imbued with qualities considered good in Farsi poetry

@XanderHenderson Reminded me of a mock Skype ad made by Russian students

Реклама скайпа

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"Don't even try to leave Omsk", a Russian meme

CowperKettle

02:08

Lil Johnson - Let's Get Drunk and Truck (1936)

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Hokum

Hokum is a particular song type of American blues music—a song which uses extended analogies or euphemistic terms to make humorous, sexual innuendos. This trope goes back to early dirty blues recordings, enjoyed huge commercial success in the 1920s and 1930s, and is used from time to time in modern American blues and blues rock. An example of hokum lyrics is this sample from "Meat Balls", by Lil Johnson, recorded in 1937: == Terminology == "Hokum", originally a vaudeville term used for a simple performance bordering on vulgarity, "old and sure-fire comedy", but hinting at a smart wordplay, was...

Xander Henderson

02:59

@CowperKettle that's great

And exactly the time I was going for.

Dannyu NDos

03:37

I'm out of instant noodles and I don't even have a single dollar. Dang.

I have so many eggs tho

alphabet

2

Q: listening and pronunciation of contractions, 'd

I can't exactly hear the sound of 'd in cassettes, like: She'd make it. She'd be with them very soon. I tried to listen them in youtube. I found I could hear it when some native english speakers speak slowly and clearly. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzhjD-XrYjg) But in another video ...

Filing this under "Questions that sound simple but are actually so complicated that I won't even try to answer them"

Strange, innit, how non-native speakers hear the sounds we actually make, instead of the ones we think we make?

alphabet

04:03

It can be a [d], or a [ɾ], or a [d̥], or a [b], or...grr my brain hurts

When I say "I'd consider" out loud, I pronounce the "-'d" as a [g]. There's probably some fancy word for this.

CowperKettle

06:30

Word of the day: pagophagia - compulsive consumption of ice and iced drinks - associated with iron deficiency anemia

@DannyuNDos I'm never out of buckwheat, which I love dearly and can eat the year round.

Dannyu NDos

07:12

Yeah, buckwheat noodles are the best.

Dannyu NDos

09:18

You say ignorance is bliss. Koreans say ignorance is remedy.

CowperKettle

And Russians have a whole fairy-tale about a hero called Ignorance-ka (Neznayka)

Dunno on the Moon

Dunno on the Moon (Russian: Незнайка на Луне) is a fairytale novel by Nikolay Nosov from the series about the adventures of Dunno with elements of science fiction. This is the final part of a trilogy of Nosov's novels, consisting of the works The Adventures of Dunno and His Friends (1953-1954), Dunno in the Sun City (1958), and Dunno on the Moon (1964-1965). For the first time novel, Dunno on the Moon was published in the magazine Family and School (rus. Семья и школа) in the years 1964–1965. A separate edition of the book was published by Detskaya Literatura in 1965. In 1969 Nosov was awarded...

I loved these illustrations as a kid:

flomaster.top/68721-neznajka-na-lune-illjustracii.html

The Moon in this fairy tale is a send-up of the USA, of course.

Since the book was written in the 1960s

Gun stores, as in the USA

The media frenzy as our hero arrives on the Moon

He gets thrown into jail, with a lot of innocent proletariate there

Does menial work for the carpicious rich

His friend becomes filthy rich on using his knowledge of salt's appetitive capacity

Greedy millionaires in cahoots

Sleeping under the bridge, with skyscrapers in the background

Despite all this, it's a great book.

It does not go further in criticizing capitalism than books published in the USA went at the time.

Because it's a children's book, and it was not ordered to go 'no holds barred' in denigrating capitalism

So you could easily imagine Steinbeck writing it, actually.

neznaika na lune [english subs] Незнайка на Луне

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SmokeDetector

11:07

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in title, toxic body detected, blacklisted user (134): Ok thanks fаggоt nіggеr сunt rеtаrd trаnnу fuсk go play with your little dісk lil disgusting fеm‭ by mean mean‭ on english.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, toxic answer detected, blacklisted user (152): Ok thanks fаggоt nіggеr сunt rеtаrd trаnnу fuсk go play with your little dісk lil disgusting fеm‭ by mean mean‭ on english.SE

tchrist

13:02

@CowperKettle You'd be surprised at how polysemous polycarpous is. :)

Xander Henderson

#WhenTaken #38 (05.04.2024)

I scored 849/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 194 km - 🗓️ 10 yrs - ⚡ 170 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 1358 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 147 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 408 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 174 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 224 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 183 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 183 km - 🗓️ 8 yrs - ⚡ 175 / 200

https://whentaken.com

How the heck was anyone supposed to locate 2? "Oh, I hear you like nondescript brick buildings, eh? Well, here's a great one!"

I do feel really good about 1---there were a couple of really good clues, and I feel smart for noticing them.

tchrist

13:20

Inviolable laws of mathematics are the ones that can't be fiddled with.

Robusto

@tchrist You can't fiddle with the violin section of the orchestra, either.

tchrist

And he called for his fiddlers three.

Xander Henderson

13:40

@tchrist You'd be surprised.

Robusto

14:14

Wordle 1,021 4/6

⬛⬛🟨⬛🟩
⬛⬛🟨🟨⬛
🟨⬛🟩🟨🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Lambie

14:48

Why doesn't SE just throw that asshole "mean mean" OUT?

Lambie

14:58

Separate question: I keep seeing on Lit. site, that asking for opinions is not allowed? When has art in all its forms not been about opinions?

jlliagre

#WhenTaken #38 (05.04.2024)

I scored 737/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 793 km - 🗓️ 5 yrs - ⚡ 153 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 990 km - 🗓️ 9 yrs - ⚡ 137 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 511 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 169 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 1036 km - 🗓️ 14 yrs - ⚡ 123 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 56 km - 🗓️ 18 yrs - ⚡ 155 / 200

https://whentaken.com

Robusto

15:17

@Lambie Art doesn't fit well into the SE format.

Lambie

@Robusto Yes, but telling OPs over and over that they can't ask for/give opinions on a Lit. site is pretty ridiculous. When you cite some academic re some novel, that's the academic's opinion. We're heading for a pc-controlled world unless the earthquakes (New Jersey an hour ago?) get us first. :)

Robusto

@Lambie The only questions that really do fit into the format are ones about technical details and history. Which is like a flock of pigeons pecking around for breadcrumbs at the foot of the Pieta.

Lambie

@Robusto I understand about the pigeons but not the rest of what you just said. In any event, "fit into the format" is kinda shaky, ain't it?

Robusto

@Lambie My point is that the art is the art and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You can't give a "wrong" answer on what you see and feel. Me, I'd just dump Lit.SE because it is useless in dealing with such things. Did Leonardo prefer marble to bronze, or vice versa? Sure, that works for SE, but so what? Just look at the fucking art and draw your own impressions and conclusions.

Xander Henderson

16:01

@Lambie You seem to be conflating "good question" with "good question for the SE format".

SE is not trying to be all things to all people---it is trying to be a repository of factual information.

Critique and criticism are important, but they are orthogonal to the goal of SE, and are typically off-topic. Doesn't mean that they are bad or wrong or whatever---just that they aren't well-suited to the mission of SE.

MetaEd

@tchrist I remember The Day Gravity Was Turned Off in Topeka

Lambie

Robusto Ahhhh. Now you are clear. And I do agree.

@XanderHenderson I am not conflating anything at all. Re Lit. there is no such thing as a repository of factual information. Factual information about books is found on google, whatever factual may mean. The people on Lit. post a bunch of sources citing academics all of which boil down to opinions. People ask: What does X mean in Y book? SE, if smarter, would change its "mission" regarding language and literature, all of which is metonymous anyway.

If I ask you what does X mean in language, the answer will always be qualitative in the end. And I see people being hounded about this about several sites (this opinion thing).

So, whatever you say to me here, it's your opinion which is not quantifiable per se.

Robusto

16:17

@Lambie Yes. And what one "expert" believes, another refutes. And it's refutations all the way down.

Lambie

@Robusto That's exactly right. //To be funny, What if this were all reversed and we said: Only opinions are allowed on this site? The point is that human knowledge is vast, variable and not all quantifiably "objectivable". Even mathematicians get into arguments (language).

Answer: downstream with a paddle. But not up shit's creek.

Robusto

And even when you know what the artist intended (see Le cafe de la nuit, about which the artist said, "I have tried to express the terrible passions of humanity using the colors of red and green," that is still an opinion. Once the art is birthed, the artist ismerely an observer, with his own opinions. It doesn't mean that red and green do exhibit those "terrible passions."

Fuck it, I can't edit that answer any more. This is what's wrong with the small quantity of text you can enter without it being "too long"; and if you do break paragraphs to enter an answer of any size, then you can't use the markdown. Grrr.

alphabet

16:47

@Lambie Surely "what does X mean" questions can be answered objectively; if you have a well-written dictionary, it will do a good job of reflecting the views of a typical native speaker.

MetaEd

17:03

"No violence, gentlemen -- no violence, I beg of you! Consider the furniture!" ---Sherlock Holmes

Xander Henderson

@alphabet Beyond that, you very likely have other works written by the author (e.g. letters) which might expand on what the author meant; and the author wrote in some context which is knowable; and so on. It is very often possible to have a very good idea about what the author "meant", which goes beyond "well, like, that's just your opinion, man".

Of course, post-modernism has kind of f*ck*ed that up, but there is no reason that we should insist on post-modern tools of literary analysis. :/

Lambie

17:19

@alphabet Dictionaries often do not agree. Why is that? Because natural language is not math (a mathematical language). Language is hermeneutical. ///Often, what an author meant is completely hidden from the author themselves. Language is messy; get over it. And that's fine. Surely, you've heard authors interviewed who are surprised by meaning their readers find...

MetaEd

17:40

Wordle 1,021 3/6

🟨⬛⬛🟨🟩
🟩⬛🟨🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

jlliagre

19:37

Wordle 1 021 3/6

⬛⬛🟩⬛🟩
⬛🟩⬛⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Robusto

21:42

OK, showing my age here: WTF does "no tea, no shade" mean? I get that shade is a diss, but what about tea? Urban Dictionary has different glosses on that. And why that word?

Xander Henderson

You've never spilled the tea?

Before I answer your question, were you born before or after 1985?

@Robusto forgot to ping (mobile sucks)

Robusto

@XanderHenderson My elder son was born in that year.

Xander Henderson

Good. Then I didn't feel like a old man explaining things to a younger person.

"Tea" means gossip. My understand is the it started in the 90s as a shorthand for Truth.

Robusto

OK, thanks.

Xander Henderson

"What's the T?" is like "What do you know? What's going on?"

Which is, implicitly, a request for new gossip.

Robusto

21:56

So it's a synonym of scuttlebutt, rumor, grapevine, rumors, etc.

Xander Henderson

T and tea are the same when spoken, so "What's the tea?", and tea can be spilled. So "spill the tea" is a request that one "dish".

"No tea, no shade" then means "I'm about to tell you some things you aren't gonna like, but I'm not trying to disrespect you or spread gossip."

2

@Robusto yes.

user 85795

> “No tea, no shade” (or “no T, no shade") means “this is the truth, no gossip and no disrespect.” “My T” was said by the transgender club performer The Lady Chablis and printed in the non-fiction book Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil (1994) by John Berendt .

ref: Quora

no tea, no shade

Adverb: no tea, no shade (not comparable)

(LGBT slang) Indicating that no offence is meant, that the speaker is merely making an observation.

Robusto

"Don't blame me for this, but ..."

user 85795

yup

Used as a softening preface to a statement that might be taken as offensive or malicious.

Xander Henderson

22:12

Yay! It seems like I grok the slang on the chillins!

Robusto

22:45

Dec 11, 2018 at 1:18, by Robusto

That's just, like, you know, your opinion, man.

@XanderHenderson I think that should be "chilluns" ... "chillins" would be something people do to relax.

alphabet

23:08

@user85795 Interesting that they list it as "LGBT slang." Both tea and shade started out in drag culture but by now I think they've gone thoroughly mainstream.

user 85795

yup

Dannyu NDos

As a non-native, I'll never get used to English slangs... or will I?

I mean, "LOL", "LMAO", "WTH", "NGL", "TBH", "BTW", "FTW" are quite straightforward, compared to the one y'all are discussing.

If Koreans say "T", they're referring to the "thinking" MBTI.

@XanderHenderson Reminds me of that German programmer who sought for "grok" in English-to-German dictionary, couldn't find it, and became furious.

tchrist

23:42

@DannyuNDos First, those are just text-messaging abbreviations. They are not slang expressions because they are not things people should feel the need to spell out the letters to when speaking. If they do, it's a peculiar affectation.

@DannyuNDos Second, "slang" is a mass noun, perhaps unless you're under thirty or so.

It's certainly officially so.

But you will hear little kids talking about "swears" and "slangs" as count nouns, like "he has bad swears" or "I don't understand her slangs". It isn't really accepted in standard English outside rather puerile environs.

Dannyu NDos

@tchrist I'm 25, so whatever

tchrist

@DannyuNDos Always took you for a person who slangs a lot. :)

Sir Slangsalot isn't half so despised as Sir Swearsalot.

Dannyu NDos

> On the other hand, Korean has so many swearing words. Believe me, a skillful Korean can KO you by just words! ― Me, on a Twitch room, years ago
> Are you one of those people?
> No

tchrist

@DannyuNDos You've been reading ESR's Jargon File again, haven't you?

Dannyu NDos

23:57

No, I read that on Steve Oualline's How Not To Program In C++.

tchrist

Hacker culture has a broad overlap with habitués of what they now would refer to as genre fiction. So of course we'd all read Heinlein.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…