English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

00:00

@DannyuNDos The Japanese is literally "Entry Ban" ... I see nothing about standing inside.

Perhaps that is understood, but it is not explicit.

Dannyu NDos

"立" means to "stand", no?

Robusto

You mean as in tateru?

Dannyu NDos

Yeah

Robusto

In those two kanji, taken together literally, the pronunciation is "tateiri" （たていり).

But it really just means "entry" ... "standing" is not specifically mentioned.

Dannyu NDos

Hmph. So this demonstrates the difference between perspectives of a native and a non-native so well.

Btw, the Korean hanja are 出入禁止, FYI.

Robusto

00:07

To get what you said you'd have to say something like 立ち入り禁止 (tachiiri kinshi)

Dannyu NDos

Aw right.

jlliagre

Do not enter in French.

Dannyu NDos

That's a road sign.

jlliagre

Works anywhere.

Dannyu NDos

Arrêté, right?

jlliagre

00:15

Not really.

Arrêté means stopped or arrested.

It's called sens interdit.

Forbidden direction.

Dannyu NDos

Aw right, the stop sign is different; an octagonal one.

They say Quebec people dislike to write any English in their road signs, while French people are just cool about it.

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos Right, that's one of the rare US sign that was adopted internationally. It is very convenient because it can be understood on both side by its shape.

@DannyuNDos Québec say Arrêt on their Stop sign indeed, but stop has been fully adopted in French probably a century ago or more. It no more feel like an English word here.

Interestingly, in the UK Halt was used before Stop was preferred, possibly because the former sounds too German.

s/on both side/from both sides/

Dannyu NDos

This fractal looked like a recursive stop sign to me, but when I asked my friend what this looks like, he said "a ninja".

jlliagre

00:30

Fractal sign?

Not a stop, a "no entry" sign.

Dannyu NDos

Aw right; I keep mixing them up.

jlliagre

Do you drive?

Dannyu NDos

Yes, I have the "1st kind" license.

I don't drive nowadays tho.

In case you're wondering: IIRC, Korean driving license comes in various kinds, including "2nd kind", "1st kind", "1st kind for big", and "1st kind for special".

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos Well, don't confuse Stop and No Entry signs when you drive, that might be dangerous or at least costly.

@DannyuNDos Yes, I googled that. That's a Permis B here.

Dannyu NDos

"2nd kind" allows you to drive only a sedan. "1st kind" allows you to drive a truck. "1st kind for big" allows you drive a bus. "1st kind for special" allows you to drive everything, including an excavator and a bulldozer.

tchrist

00:39

@DannyuNDos I know which people would count as big, but how do you decide if someone is special enough?

Dannyu NDos

Those refer to vehicles, not people.

@jlliagre For your relief, Korean stop signs are written "정지" and Korean no entry signs are written "출입금지". So I won't confuse them here.

jlliagre

Dannyu NDos

Weird. That sign isn't "do not enter", but "no going forward".

jlliagre

Dannyu NDos

Yeah, that's correct.

Any differences from your country's standards?

tchrist

00:50

@DannyuNDos You're kidding, right?

Dannyu NDos

????

I mean, any small difference?

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos Very similar. Most are identical. What is the one with a skyline or something?

tchrist

Like China, Canada, and Australia, the United States is not a signatory to the UN's Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals.

Dannyu NDos

So there is an international standard anyways and South Korea follows it.

ISO FTW!!

tchrist

@DannyuNDos Why would we care? Most people stay mostly in their own state, which has its own signs and laws, and mostly nobody ever leaves the country much if at all.

Dannyu NDos

00:54

@jlliagre That... I've never seen that, so no idea. Maybe something to do with noises from an airport nearby?

tchrist

Some of our signs lack words, though. I believe that makes them "international".

I know that doesn't help if you're used to base-7 arithmetic on speed limits. Sorry.

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos Maybe indeed, and what is the 30 km/h speed limit underscored?

tchrist

So like that one hasn't got any words, so that should work internationally, right?

Dannyu NDos

@tchrist Don't worry; Koreans use decimals. The real problem is, US uses miles, but South Korea uses kilometers.

tchrist

Why would you want a speed limit in something your car doesn't tell you? That would be useless here.

And distances to other places are only in miles, too.

So everything has to be that way.

Dannyu NDos

00:59

@jlliagre That's a speed limit below. Like, "You must drive at 30 km/h or faster." That is commonly used on highways.

@tchrist Here, cars tell your speed in km/h. So no problem there either.

tchrist

That would be bad.

Dannyu NDos

:(

tchrist

What's Korea's sign for that one?

Dannyu NDos

Mooses don't live here. So we don't have a sign for that.

Though, vampire deer would be an equivalent.

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos Ah, that's confusing and possibly a misinterpretation of the standard. The sign should be blue, not circled by red.

That one.

tchrist

01:02

You have eagles, right?

Dannyu NDos

No, we have vultures.

tchrist

Nobody cares about vultures.

Dannyu NDos

Yeah, because vultures don't appear in highways.

tchrist

They do if there's roadkill. I promise you. That's why the eagles are there, too.

Dannyu NDos

Here, it's vampire deer that are roadkilled on highways. Or cats on normal streets.

tchrist

01:07

Which sign is that?

Dannyu NDos

tchrist

Ahah! You use words, too!

I am satisfied now.

We have dozens and dozens of runaways every year. It keeps going up, too.

> Colorado’s runaway truck ramps were used 13 times in 2019, though CDOT suspects that some uses may have gone unrecorded, resulting in what appears to be a statistical outlier in comparison to subsequent years. In 2020, 30 uses were recorded, while 2021 had 32 and 2022 spiked to 44. So far this year, 31 trucks have taken advantage of them.

I don't think it's because the mountains are getting higher.

jlliagre

@tchrist As far as I remember, it's a "Purina Dog Chow Next Exit" ;-)

tchrist

That's here on I-70 in Glenwood Canyon. It's really called that. They couldn't think of a name, and it stuck.

It's very important to remember who has priority, or unfortunate accidents may occur.

Dannyu NDos

tchrist

01:19

Dannyu NDos

똥섬 lit. Poo Island

tchrist

Vail is so confusing.

You feel like you're playing Wheel of Fortune.

jlliagre

Dannyu NDos

A cake of signs.

tchrist

@jlliagre That was taken at the West Pole!

jlliagre

01:27

Precisely!

tchrist

By derechistas.

We had to put these up because of deadly accidents involving gigantic trucks.

I hate those kind.

jlliagre

We love roundabouts in France but the British are the champions.

See How an Insane 7-Circle Roundabout Actually Works | WIRED

►

tchrist

That's crazy stuff.

jlliagre

I remember having to cross a similar although less complex roundabout in England several decades ago and that was a nightmare, especially as we have to drive left so you can't trust your reflexes.

tchrist

We have lots of roundabouts in Colorado but nothing like that.

@jlliagre Yes, that was always my main fear doing that there.

Dannyu NDos

01:42

Fun fact: Koreans call a roundabout a "rotary".

Mitch

@jlliagre Both sides? From the front and from behind?

@DannyuNDos That's not a runaway truck ramp. It's a truck launch ramp.

It's sort of a short cut.

jlliagre

@Mitch Yes, that's the only octagonal shaped sign so even if you only see it's "neutral" back, you know it's a stop sign.

tchrist

jlliagre

Mitch

01:59

@jlliagre ohhhhhhh

I wasn't thinking

I was thinking that you could somehow see through the sign.

@jlliagre not anymore

I hope you've registered with the authorities

jlliagre

Hehe

Mitch

Oh about that screen shot of yours, the one with the Israeli flag but Arabic writing...

Do you know what the Arabic writing said?

jlliagre

@Mitch Arabic.

Mitch

It didn't look like it could have been an Arabic transcription of 'Israel'

@jlliagre oh..the name of the Arabic language?

In Arabic?

jlliagre

Yes. A large population of Israel is native Arabic speaker.

Mitch

02:10

Yes, all the 'Israeli Arabs'

@jlliagre was it غريب or عربي ?

(I can't find your post)

jlliagre

@Mitch The Department of Homeland site is intended for people who can benefit from a visa exemption while traveling to the US. The only arab speaking people who are allowed to apply are Israeli arabs, that explains the flag.

15 hours ago, by jlliagre

jlliagre

02:32

'Homeland Security' I mean.

Mitch

03:03

@jlliagre thanks. I couldn't for the life of me figure it out.

CowperKettle

Word of the morn: Einstellung effect

Physiology of the day: cremasteric reflex

Miltary of the day: mine flail

Robusto

04:11

@tchrist That's the women's stop sign. Is there a TENOR for the men's?

<joke>

alphabet

@Robusto All those woke liberals, trying to get us to switch to gender-neutral stop signs! /s

Robusto

inorite

alphabet

04:29

It'd be dangerous if we men had to share our stop signs with women. I know, not all of them are bad drivers, but some of them are, and are you willing to expose your sons to that risk? /s

CowperKettle

Xanne

07:09

Wordle 1,012 3/6

⬜⬜⬜🟩⬜
⬜⬜🟩⬜🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

That was nice.

CowperKettle

Dannyu NDos

I don't get why garlic is uncountable. Mostly because Korean cuisines use it very much.

CowperKettle

Dannyu NDos

And I don't get why Buddhists are allowed to eat onions. If spices are supposed to interrupt their training, why did they specifically pick five?

CowperKettle

> Illustration from the Japanese agricultural encyclopedia Seikei Zusetsu (1804)

@DannyuNDos Five what?

Dannyu NDos

07:21

Garlic, spring onion, garlic chives, Korean wild chives, and asafoetida.

Buddhists are disallowed from eating those, but onion isn't amongst them.

user 85795

So a spring onion is not an onion.

Dannyu NDos

Yeah. In Korean, an onion is 양파 yangpa, and a spring onion is 파 pa.

Nor they disallow chili pepper.

user 85795

Perhaps buddhism is too broadly defined here

Dannyu NDos

I meant Korean standards of Buddhism; other branches may have different standards.

Even in Korea, there is a notable separate branch of Buddhism, namely Won-Buddhism. Dunno whether they have the same taboos, but it's worth mentioning.

user 85795

07:36

Perhaps different levels of training require different restrictions on diet also.

SmokeDetector

08:19

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer, link at beginning of answer, potentially bad ip for hostname in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (133): What does "rule" mean in "the rule of law"?‭ by Karia Jules‭ on english.SE

jlliagre

09:13

@CowperKettle French has cèbe, cébette and ciboulette from Occitan.

CowperKettle

@jlliagre I had this huge book as a kid, with great illustrations:

Cipollino

Cipollino (pronounced [tʃipolˈliːno]), or Little Onion as translated from the original, is a fictional character from Gianni Rodari's eponymous Tale of Cipollino (Italian: Il romanzo di Cipollino), also known under its 1957 renamed title Adventures of Cipollino (Italian: Le avventure di Cipollino), a children's tale about political oppression. He also appeared before the publication of the book in the children's magazine Il Pioniere of which Rodari was the editor. Cipollino was popular in the Soviet Union, up to the point of being adapted as a ballet composed by Karen Khachaturian and choreographed...

Chipollino - adventures of the onion boy 🧅 PART 1 (English subtitles)

►

jlliagre