English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

MetaEd

00:03

@CowperKettle "We're just a brain in a vat running a self-generated simulation". There are two possibilities. Either he's off his meds talking nonsense about the objective reality being a simulation, or he's figured out that our subjective reality is limited to the senses plus our cognate notions, and that's as old as Buddhism so he's a bit late to the party.

@tchrist waves

CowperKettle

I only listened half-ear to it, since I was writing a news item, and his speech is not very clear. But his other interviews were interesting.

MetaEd

@CowperKettle Be careful what you half-listen to. That's how the pinks get in your head.

tchrist

@MetaEd Hiho hiho.

MetaEd

@tchrist exactly. it's off from work I go

CowperKettle

I have pinking shears.

Word of the morn: left of boom - a military term for the moment before a bomb explodes, as opposed to "right of boom" which is after - based on a left to right timeline.

> The cut produced by pinking shears may have been derived from the garden plant called the pink, in the genus Dianthus (the carnations). As the pink has scalloped, or "pinked", edges to its petals, pinking shears can be thought to produce an edge similar to the flower.

> The earliest known use of the noun pinking shears is in the 1890s.

OED's earliest evidence for pinking shears is from 1891, in Pittsburg (Pennsylvania) Disp.

Cerberus

00:21

What is "de ces morts"?

Mitch

@MetaEd which comment?

Cerberus

But, yeah, travelling during rush hour every day, whether by car or by metro, is terrible.

Office slavery.

Or just bike to the office if you must be there in rush hour.

tchrist

@Cerberus What do you mean? You know the words, so what is the context?

Cerberus

28 mins ago, by CowperKettle

An city-dweller of one's deaths?

tchrist

Yeah, I don't know what a urbanite of their deaths means.

CowperKettle

00:28

My Google Translate translated it simply as "top 10 reasons not to live in a city"

Cerberus

It must be an expression.

CowperKettle

Without any death mentioned. So it might be some idiom.

jlliagre

@Cerberus De ses morts is a just a slang emphasis here, either from Arabic or Gipsy origin.

CowperKettle

Looks like it's some recent meme: reddit.com/r/france/comments/x5a29j/…

jlliagre

A curse like in La putain de tes morts (a variant of la putain de ta mère).

Cerberus

00:32

@jlliagre I figured.

jlliagre

All of these guys clearly do not work from home...

tchrist

@alphabet No, 745.

123 of your answers are deleted.

CowperKettle

user 726941

translation please

Cerberus

00:49

Is Captain Haddock known not to want to explain complex or embarrassing things?

And why the milk?

jlliagre

01:06

It's a parody of a famous TV ad from the 90's.

Publicité 1990 Lactel (Papa, comment on fait les bébés ?)

►

Cerberus

Ah.

jlliagre

Another parody:

Comment on fait les bébés (pub les Nuls)

►

jlliagre

02:46

La palabra del día #680 4/6

⬜⬜⬜🟨🟩
⬜🟩⬜🟩🟩
⬜🟩⬜🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

https://lapalabradeldia.com/

Ho indovinato questa parola italiana di 5 lettere in 4/6 tentativi.

🟩⬛🟨⬛🟨
🟩🟨⬛⬛🟨
🟩🟩🟩⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Riesci a indovinare questa parola?
https://wordlegame.org/it?challenge=cG9ldGE

#ElMot 687 5/6

⬜🟨🟨⬜🟩
⬜🟨🟩⬜🟩
⬜⬜🟩🟩🟩
🟩⬜🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

#WordleCAT
elmot.gelozp.com

Daily Octordle #663
7️⃣3️⃣
6️⃣🔟
5️⃣8️⃣
🕚9️⃣
Score: 59

alphabet

03:09

Apparently Tinder has added a new subscription level called "Tinder Select." It costs $500 a month.

They might've just called it "desperate incel mode."

Cerberus

03:36

Only 500?

What does it grant you, a golden photo frame?

MetaEd

03:49

It is a reference to the law firm of Gray, Cary. The True Story of Betty Broderick’s Divorce (Oprah Daily) — MetaEd 5 hours ago

alphabet

Apparently you can message people without matching with them, and get easy access to "the most sought after profiles."

If your using it for hookups: at what point does this get more expensive than an escort service?

But I kinda imagine most subscribers will be less-than-attractive straight guys angry at how women are too "hypergamous."

Cerberus

Haha.

Gamos can mean many things.

Being able to message anything, that sounds almost like...Grinder?

alphabet

Yes. But for straight people with money to burn. I'm guessing they'll have trouble getting gays to sign up; there are better apps for that.

I assume the Dutch version will have a new, even more expensive level where they just pay sex workers to match with you and pretend it's mutual attraction.

Oddly enough, while some straight people see Tinder as a hookup app, gay guys seem to mostly use it for dating, purely because other apps are the hookup apps.

Cerberus

04:47

@alphabet Like most 'dating' websites for straight people...you're actually paying €1 per message to some person in a call centre who looks nothing like her pictures, and who have no intention of ever meeting you. I have seen a documentary about this. They prey on vulnerable straight men.

@alphabet Exactly.

Men are just so much easier than women in this regard.

alphabet

Indeed. It must be a sad existence, being heterosexual.

Cerberus

Aww.

alphabet

Do you have Sniffies in the Netherlands? It seems to be displacing Grindr.

Cerberus

I don't think so.

I read about online recently, it seems to be a website?

With more anonymous people on it?

alphabet

It's banned from the App Store because it violates their policies, since it allows people to post nudes as profile pics.

So you have to use it as a website on your phone.

Cerberus

04:54

Ah, the silly American prudes.

There is no reason why it couldn't be a website.

You can just let people pick their own location.

alphabet

@Cerberus You mean there's no reason it couldn't be an app?

Cerberus

No.

I mean, Grinder could be a website.

I think it even used to have a web interface.

alphabet

Well, yeah. But Sniffies can't be an app, is what I'm trying to say.

I don't think it's just an American thing. Probably would somehow hurt Apple's brand if they platformed it.

Cerberus

@alphabet I know.

@alphabet Because of American prudes.

alphabet

@Cerberus You Europeans. I'm reminded of when the American news media freaked out about John Dillermand.

Cerberus

05:00

Cute.

But, yeah, I think Americans would faint.

alphabet

I think most Americans--even us not-particularly-prudish types--find the Dutch attitude towards sex at least as unusual as the Dutch find ours.

Cerberus

We also have a television programme here where a number of adults on a stage drop their clothes, and the audience of children can ask them any questions.

@alphabet It is not really Dutch.

alphabet

Also, if anyone underage got caught using it--as certainly happens on Grindr--you'd have some sort of child porn distribution scandal.

Cerberus

America is the outlier here.

alphabet

@Cerberus I've heard about that. Bizarre.

Cerberus

05:02

Why bizarre?

It is a healthy way for children to learn about the human body.

I think they will probably not allow questions that are too sexual.

alphabet

@Cerberus There is--in American culture--a strong association between nudity and sex that doesn't exist in Europe. I think most of us would assume such a show could only involve sexual questions.

Cerberus

There has been American influence on Dutch society via the Internet: especially the lower classes have already become more prudish thanks to American media.

And of course our Muslims are very prudish.

@alphabet Yeah and it is America that is bizarre here, not the rest of the West.

alphabet

@Cerberus Well, compared to Europe, yeah. If you compare it to Saudi Arabia, not so much.

Cerberus

Do you want to be compared to a barbarian society like SA?

alphabet

@Cerberus I just mean in terms of which culture is more of an outlier, globally speaking.

Cerberus

05:06

I read that being naked in public is a common nightmare in America. It is not in Europe.

@alphabet I am not comparing Western countries with primitive societies.

alphabet

@Cerberus I mean, there are nudist colonies, but outside of that you'd likely get arrested. Maybe not in San Francisco; I'm not sure there are any laws there.

Cerberus

@alphabet Nightmare.

This is about nightmares.

alphabet

@Cerberus It mystifies me that someone would be comfortable being nude in public. It's too ingrained.

Cerberus

People here are not comfortable naked in public.

But it's just not such a big fear that they have nightmares about it.

alphabet

@Cerberus Ah. I mean, I think there's kind of a stereotype of it being a common nightmare, but I don't think it's actually common.

Cerberus

05:09

We content ourselves with falling off cliffs or being shot by murderers.

@alphabet From what I read, it was.

alphabet

@Cerberus I doubt it. There isn't that much consistency in nightmare topics, I think.

Cerberus

There was from what I read.

Many dreams are common across cultures.

Or at least across Western countries.

But some are more 'local'.

alphabet

Dunno.

But I have no idea where they find adults to participate in that TV show.

I feel like, in the US, people would ask if the participants were all pervs who liked exposing themselves to kids.

Cerberus

That is why I said America is more prudish.

A well known fact.

Probably mostly to do with its history, mainly religion, and the type of immigrants.

alphabet

Definitely more religion. Probably also something about differing attitudes towards personal privacy, I suspect.

Historically, of course. This culture certainly affects nonreligious people also, albeit (on average) to a lesser extent.

CowperKettle

05:18

The winter has started here. Minus 5 C today

alphabet

How about Russia? You got any TV shows where nude adults take questions from kids? I'm sure it'd be incredibly popular /s

CowperKettle

@alphabet I heard about such shows. No, of course we don't have these. We had a reality show House and House 2, where young adults were sometimes shown naked and making love, or washing each other in a shower.

I did not watch it though, even though there were huge billboards everywhere.

Dom-2

Dom-2 (Russian: Дом-2, literally: "House-2") is a Russian reality TV show created by TNT channel. In the show, the contestants' main objective is to construct a house whilst trying to find a partner in the process. Couples then compete for the house itself. The first episode of Dom-2 was aired on May 11, 2004. It remains one of the most highly rated, profitable and longest-running reality shows on television in Russia. Dom-2 broadcasts on the TNT channel at 11 pm every day. It is hosted by Kseniya Sobchak and Kseniya Borodina. After more than 5,500 episodes, as of July 2019, it is the longest running...

Cerberus

@alphabet What do you mean?

Privacy is valued much less in America than in Europe.

You can see that in the laws and in people's opinions.

I think one reason for that may be WWII and the Soviet occupations, though.

@alphabet Russia is hardly comparable to Western countries.

CowperKettle

There are videos with Dom-2 participants, making love during the show, for instance, one guy pleasing his girlfriend orally, but these videos are boring compared with CornHub

Cerberus

The images won't load for me.

I assume they must be very hot.

alphabet

05:28

It's Corn

@CowperKettle I'm sure there's some (non-broadcast) American TV channel that would have a similar show. But not the mainstream ones.

Sadly, the gay version was cancelled after all of its producers fell out of windows.

(Though it'd depend on exactly how explicit the imagery was. TV is weird in that way.)

Have I recommended the book Sadly, Porn to this chat yet? It's a truly bizarre surrealist book consisting of 10% pornographic material, 90% an extensive series of nested footnotes giving a blistering critique of Society These Days.

It's self-published on Amazon but got attention from a few blog posts I saw

Cerberus

Your society?

alphabet

Yes, though I suspect much of it applies elsewhere.

Cerberus

Not if it is about a subject related to prudeness...

alphabet

That's not the topic, no.

It's mostly about the imminent downfall of democracy.

It's a very strange book.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

alphabet

05:42

But good.

I think it's right on a number of points.

Cerberus

That also seems to apply more to your society than those of other Western countries?

If it is about Trump.

alphabet

Not...really.

Cerberus

Then why would there be an "imminent downfall of democracy"?

We don't have that stuff here.

alphabet

It does refer to Trump, but it isn't obviously about him in any meaningful sense.

That said, it's rather cryptic.

Cerberus

I don't see how it could apply to other Western societies?

alphabet

05:47

You'd need to read it.

Cerberus

OK.

alphabet

It's more about people's declining sense of civic responsibility and the resulting inaction and paralysis of society in the face of (internal or external) threats.

Supposedly porn-viewing habits illustrate the ways in which people try to deny being responsible for things.

(Yes, this sounds crazy. Trust me, I think it's basically right on a number of points.)

Cerberus

Hmm.

Inaction and paralysis of society: and yet protest movements and demonstrations are bigger than ever?

One of the main highways into The Hague, where the government is, was blocked by climate protesters for a month or so, until at last a law they wanted was adopted by parliament.

alphabet

06:04

But how many of those people want to be involved in the implementation of those policies? You don't see many of them, say, going to school for engineering to work on building more efficient wind turbines, or working for local government to oversee the development of a new power plant.

Protesting doesn't involve taking on responsibility for the actual work of getting things done.

Cerberus

Hmm.

But the government is doing that?

They hire the people and set up the projects and make the laws that let companies do it?

alphabet

How convenient, that we just assume "the government" will take care of all the actual work that's much more difficult--and ultimately more necessary--than protesting.

Cerberus

Well, we vote for parties that form governments to do it

And we pressure the government to do it by protests?

Sure, it is good of individual citizens also do what they can.

alphabet

If, say, 100 of those protestors became chemistry PhDs working on improving electric car batteries, they'd be making quite a big commitment to helping the climate. But most of them won't.

Cerberus

Maybe they will make the government spend more on the education of chemistry students and on research projects and salaries...

But, sure, it would be better if people chose more actually useful jobs.

alphabet

06:14

Or if climate activists started actually running the companies doing those sorts of projects? That'd make a huge difference, if we had people with principles instead of random corporate bureaucrats.

Cerberus

Instead of the endless marketing types and lawyers and coaches and all.

@alphabet Sure, but how?

They are now trying to influence companies by influencing the big pension funds.

alphabet

@Cerberus The same way as anyone does. Start a new company (say) making electric cars, or try to climb the ranks in an existing one.

Cerberus

For example, my pension fund is sitting on €500 billion. It invests in a ton of companies.

alphabet

Or become one of those people the government is supposed to hire. Or propose the projects the government is supposed to fund.

Cerberus

Would be nice.

alphabet

06:16

@Cerberus Conveniently, divestment has almost zero effect on the corporations it targets. But it is a very easy thing to do.

Cerberus

But, if my pension fund buys 10% of some big company, and then tells it to change its policy, that does have an effect.

alphabet

It requires little effort or serious planning. Which is why people like it.

Cerberus

@alphabet It is not mainly divestment.

The pension fund buys part of a company and tells it to change its policies.

Because the climate activists have pressured the pension fund.

All this is going on right now.

alphabet

@Cerberus BP's market cap is $100 billion. Exonn's is $415 billion.

Cerberus

So?

alphabet

06:18

Sure, you can try to influence smaller companies. But starting one--or even just rising through the ranks at an existing one--would have the potential to do a lot more.

Cerberus

No, they buy a substantial share of a big company.

Like Shell.

Or Unilever.

And that is just one pension fund. There are many in my country, and countless around the world.

It is not enough.

And it goes slowly.

But the pressure is increasing.

And the government and the E. U. are of course making laws under that same pressure.

So I wouldn't say the pressure from protesters is useless.

It depends.

alphabet

Here's a question: why aren't those protestors working for the pension fund? Why are so few of them, at least in the US, running for political offices that control such things?

Cerberus

Why wouldn't they be working there?

alphabet

Regardless, I find it extremely unlikely that this sort of investment will be able to influence sufficiently large companies that are actual major contributors to climate change. It would essentially be a hostile takeover of a corporation.

Cerberus

They work in all kinds of functions cross society?

@alphabet It is a combination of factors.

alphabet

06:23

Yes, but really all of them should be trying to (say) work at a pension fund, or trying to get into positions of direct power and responsibility, rather than just trying to influence other people who already have that power.

Cerberus

Maybe!

alphabet

@Cerberus Likewise, why aren't the protestors becoming EU lawmakers?

Answer: doing so entails being responsible for achieving things.

Cerberus

One problem is that the majority of the people don't want mo drastic actions. So you can't force society.

alphabet

Nobody likes feeling like they have obligations and need to be consistently relied upon.

Cerberus

@alphabet Well, many Europarliamentarians are already like that?

The Greens, for example.

The problem is not a lack of green politicians, but of voters for their plans.

alphabet

06:26

@Cerberus This reluctance to try to fix things is a serious problem in society. It's not just climate. It's every political issue.

Cerberus

And you can't 'infiltrate', say, the Ministry of Energy with climate protesters and ignore the commands issued to the ministry by parliament.

@alphabet Yeah, many people may have the wrong priorities.

But things are changing.

Climate laws are being passed.

It's just too slow.

But it is accelerating.

alphabet

@Cerberus You hardly need to infiltrate it. You just need to get the credentials that the job requires.

Cerberus

You need to do what you are told by politicians, right?

alphabet

Let's say you start working at the Ministry of Energy in a job, say, planning new wind farms. If you just do your job--but do it really well, because you're particularly skilled and dedicated--then you can achieve quite a lot. And if everyone starts doing that, and starts taking their responsibilities seriously, then society would be in a much better place.

Cerberus

All right.

Maybe!

Although I think pretty skilful and motivated people are already doing those jobs!

alphabet

06:31

Some of them, some of the time. We need a lot more, and the activist movement mostly isn't pushing its members to (say) run for City Council or go to engineering school.

The problem is that then you're required to be dependable; people are actually counting on you. Protesting does something, yes. But merely participating in the protest generally doesn't require taking on long-term responsibilities towards other people.

Cerberus

It is true that those people already have jobs.

They could be nurses, lawyers, anything.

alphabet

Yes, and the lawyers, at least, should stop doing those jobs. Or they should be encouraging others not to take up those jobs.

They can always change career paths. But it's easier to live life on autopilot.

At least, many of them can. And almost none of them do.

It is truly foolish that some people are willing to take immense personal risks in acts of protest, but unwilling to switch jobs.

Cerberus

Maybe!

alphabet

Anyway, that's my rant for the night.

Cerberus

But it's not so easy to figure out what one could do, then.

In practice.

alphabet

06:37

Exactly. Figuring that out is difficult. And you're obligated to do that, as best as you can. Despite it being difficult.

The fact that it's difficult is exactly why people avoid it.

Cerberus

Yeah it's not easy.

alphabet

What makes this really pernicious is that people will claim that they can't do such things to avoid facing the fact that they just won't. It's easier to pretend to have no power than to acknowledge that you do.

It's also difficult to avoid just moving forward on autopilot, being unwilling to make major changes in the direction of one's life.

Anyway, I should go to sleep sometime before 2am. Ciao.

Cerberus

06:57

Sleep well.

CowperKettle

07:18

I understand that a human can survive on a low-carb, high-fat diet. I wonder if it's the same with a low-carb, high-protein diet, or this diet would induce starvation.

M.A.R.

09:12

@CowperKettle surviving is a pretty low bar

@alphabet this is a very good point, and very relevant about protests here also

CowperKettle

09:24

@M.A.R. By description, people go on living on it, not barely surviving. I wonder if the same goes for 30 g carb + LOTS of protein + normal amount of fat

Or maybe one needs ketone bodies as substitutes of carbs, in order to go on functioning well.

Xanne

12:16

@CowperKettle There have been articles written about rabbit diets (diets of rabbit, not for rabbits). But see en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning

CowperKettle

13:13

@Xanne Thank you! Looks like a bad idea :)

I recall reading it a long time ago, but I forgot

Xanne

13:31

Sam Altman has been fired from OpenAI by the board. Odd. Not good.

CowperKettle

@Xanne Maybe the AI has become sentient and started getting rid of people.

Xanne

Aha! It’s taking over already.

CowperKettle

13:48

> However, near the end of the burn contact with the vehicle was lost. At the time of the loss of telemetry, Starship was at an altitude of 148 kilometers and going more than 24,000 kilometers per hour, close to orbital velocity.

This is very good. 148 kilometers is actually space.

Korolyov's huge Moon rocket also took a lot of attempts to lift off.

Multi-engine, multi-stage rockets are complicated.

Korolev's N1 rocket only reached 40 km on its final launch.

CowperKettle

14:40

Le LOL

Vikas

15:08

@CowperKettle commenting for better reach.

M.A.R.

18:55

@CowperKettle that doesn't make sense. Ketone bodies are the results of lipid metabolism. They're waste products for the most part.

CowperKettle

19:10

@M.A.R. I thought that the use of the keto diet depended on their generation.

tchrist

19:30

@alphabet Your examples of present tense used for something that occurred already are interesting in their marked lack of the progressive aspect. Is that lack itself some sort of signal?

alphabet

@tchrist Sorry, you mean in the question I just answered?

tchrist

I do.

alphabet

@tchrist Ah. I don't think the present progressive is necessarily excluded in the usage with reporting verbs ("John's telling me he's leaving soon") but that would typically be interpreted as describing either a recurring situation or something that's currently happening.

Certainly the historical present allows the progressive: "Here's what happened yesterday. I leave to go to work, and I'm walking down the street, when I see the road is under construction..."

tchrist

> 1. I hear that she already quit.
2. I hear that she's already quit.
3. I heard that she already quit.
4. I've heard that she already quit.
5. I've been hearing that she already quit.
6. I'm hearing that she already quit.
7. I'm hearing that she's already quit.
8. I'd heard that she already quit.
9. I'd heard that she'd already quit.

I forget the technical linguistic term for this sort of use, but I do know they is one.

alphabet

Whether you use "she already quit" or "she's already quit" in (1)-(2) depends on dialect. In AmE the simple past (which for "quit" is of course identical to the simple present) is much more likely, whereas many BrE speakers would prefer the perfect "has quit."

tchrist

19:40

It's the "this glass leaks" vs "this glass is leaking" distinction.

So case 1 is something that keeps happening.

Not something en train de happening this instant.

I'm wondering whether that's licensing the present for the past here. Very uncertain.

alphabet

H&P call this "serial multiplicity." It's the use of the present tense found in things like "She bikes to work every day."

Essentially this is because, when a single event is considered as recurring an unbounded number of times, it's treated as a state rather than an event, allowing the use of the simple present.

In other words, the present is describing something happening in the present, not in the past. What's happening in the present is the ongoing state of affairs in which the glass regularly leaks.

Strictly speaking, sentences like "She tells me she's leaving tomorrow" are ambiguous. It would usually be interpreted as describing a single report in the past, but it could also mean that she keeps telling me this repeatedly, on an ongoing basis.

In "Every ten seconds she tells me she's leaving tomorrow" it has the latter meaning.

tchrist

Suzie tells everybody it's gone.

I hear Susie tells everybody she's out of time.

user 726941

"is" indicates existence.

alphabet

In general -- I didn't get into this in my answer -- the use of the simple present with "reporting verbs" is much more common when the object is me ("Suzie tells me...") than with other objects ("Suzie tells everyone...").

user 726941

The so called backwards E

tchrist

19:50

I hear she teaches French.

alphabet

So "Suzie tells everyone..." is more likely to be interpreted in the serial-multiplicity sense.

tchrist

She says she teaches French but I never believe her.

@alphabet yeah

alphabet

Sometimes grammar hurts my little raccoon brain.

tchrist

You just need a eureka heuristic.

user 726941

Growing pains are never very pleasant

tchrist

20:00

Interesting that we spell those two differently.

> < Greek εὕρηκα, 1st person singular perfect of εὑρίσκειν to find. The correct spelling heureka is rare.

Something about going through Latin and thence French or German before getting to us.

Or not doing so, respectively.

> Summary
A borrowing from Latin; originally partly modelled on a French lexical item, and partly modelled on a German lexical item.
Etymon: Latin heuristicus.
Ultimately < post-classical Latin heuristicus (1728 or earlier), irregularly < the stem of ancient Greek εὑρίσκειν to find (see Eureka int.) + post-classical Latin -isticus -istic suffix.

As noun originally after French †héuristique (1768 in the passage translated in quot. 1770 at sense A.1; now heuristique); compare German Heuristik (1750 or earlier).

I always though Eureka was real but OED says int.

user 726941

20:24

You lost me.

Is it an interjection?

tchrist

It is.

alphabet

Americans Try to Pronounce French Words

►

tchrist

> a1631
That it were deadly sinne in him to de-relinquish the Church.
J. Donne, Βιαθανατος (1647) ii. iv. §6

Is derelinquish the opposite of relinquish? Are discarded relics derelicts?

Parisians Try to Pronounce Words in English

►

user 726941

Eureka (word)

Eureka (Ancient Greek: εὕρηκα, romanized: héurēka) is an interjection used to celebrate a discovery or invention. It is a transliteration of an exclamation attributed to Ancient Greek mathematician and inventor Archimedes. == Etymology == "Eureka" comes from the Ancient Greek word εὕρηκα heúrēka, meaning "I have found (it)", which is the first person singular perfect indicative active of the verb εὑρίσκω heurískō "I find". It is closely related to heuristic, which refers to experience-based techniques for problem-solving, learning, and discovery. == Pronunciation == The accent of the English word...

TIL Gauss said it also.

Thanks tchrist

CowperKettle

21:42

I learned that haute is pronounced "o".

In Russia, we pronounce haute couture as "ot kutyur", so I had thought that the "t" is pronounced.

Up to age 40 I thought that "ot" there meant the Russian preposition от, meaning "from".

Mitch

21:53

@CowperKettle 'haute' is pronounced /hot/ (closed mid back rounded).

It is 'haut' that is pronounced /o/

I'm not sure exactly about the vowel (closed?)

CowperKettle

@Mitch oops!

Couture is feminine, hence haute. I know now.

Mitch

Yes!

Does Russian have such sound changes for gender?

tchrist

That's the kind of silent h- that blocks/breaks liaison, which they call aspiré but really is not heard at all, let alone aspirated. So la haute cuisine not ✱l’haute cuisine, and le haut pays breton not ✱l’haut pays breton

CowperKettle

@Mitch Yes: vysoky (male) and vysokaya (female), both adjectives meaning "high"

Mitch

Languages are too complex. Get rid of gender and declensions and conjugations

Spell phonetically always

Use an alphabet

Everything analytic, no inflections

CowperKettle

22:02

Too late to change now.

tchrist

So you would leave off the final written consonant in French when the next word starts with a consonant sound but not with a vowel sound? That would be very confusing to write.

Mitch

@tchrist also none of that exception to exceptions stuff

Just no exceptions

CowperKettle

In 2030, we'll have Babel Fish interfaces, instantly translating any language to any language on the fly and directly delivering the translation to the appropriate parts of the cortex.

Mitch

@CowperKettle we can always change

@tchrist well...

Uh....

tchrist

Well, it's too late: Je suis un peu confus et effrayé.

Mitch

22:04

None of that weird stuff to begin with.

tchrist

Which letters there are we supposed to not write in your system?

Mitch

@CowperKettle and nobody will read

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle it doesn't depend on them, it's named after them. On a keto diet, you consume so little carb that cells have to metabolize lipids to create ATP, often by beta-oxidation.

Mitch

@tchrist you wouldn't have the silent sound change that begin with

Lol man this is a revolution - we can change -anything-

tchrist

@Mitch A napple for Sandy?

Mitch

22:07

@M.A.R. ok just bear with me why don't we just injects ATP straight into our veins?

@tchrist Sandy needs an eke-name

CowperKettle

@M.A.R. Ah! I though that keto bodies were somehow useful

Interesting.

tchrist

Which R's do we write in farmer and farmer?

Mitch

Wait do you stress the second syllable?

tchrist

Farmer, not fermer.

CowperKettle

Mitch

22:09

This ain't just spelling reform, it's everything reform

@CowperKettle no one thought this is what transhumanism would be like

tchrist

No love for the homosimian lifestyle?

Mitch

Now that Sam Altman has a lot more free time.in his hands he should think about growing a tail or, as ambitious as he seems to be, a third arm

You know for extra hard juggling routines

@tchrist the Brits picked up non-rhoticism from trying to sound fancy like the French

tchrist

Champ chimps chomp chump chimps.

CowperKettle

Irish Passport of the Day:

user 726941

Recieved Pronunciation?

Received Intonation.

Decieved by intonation!

jlliagre

22:25

@Mitch Yes, haut is pronounced /o/, along with its plural hauts, and also eau (water), eaux (plural water), au (to +masc. def. article), aux (plural of au), aulx (garlics), ho (ho), oh (oh), ô (literary o/oh), os (bones).

user 726941

Damn it e before i :(

tchrist

22:38

@user726941 E Ignacio y Nacho, además.

jlliagre

@user726941 French has more words containing 'ie' than 'ei'. Modern French spelling is consistent here: reçu(e) and déçu(e)

tchrist

@jlliagre When would you use aulx not ails?

Which sounds almost insane read aloud. :)

> Le nom français des plantes de ce genre donne au pluriel "ails" pour les botanistes, "aulx" pour les négociants.

> Ail possède deux pluriels. Le plus ancien, « des aulx », a tendance à disparaître. On utilise plus fréquemment la forme botanique « des ails » mais les deux formes sont correctes.

jlliagre

@tchrist I almost never use ail at the plural, it's generally uncountable (de l'ail). I have read aulx and its unusual spelling and pronunciation made me remembering it.

tchrist

@jlliagre Yes, using it in the plural seems really rare. I'd still say different sorts of garlic, not different garlics.

jlliagre

Yes, it would be understood in written form but would be very confusing orally.

tchrist

22:46

At least I can tell you didn't just say aurally. :)

jlliagre

@tchrist Not O'Reilly either ;-)

Recette | Poulet au Citron et aux Olives | Notre Repas de Famille

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Aulx at the third minute, very rare usage.

CowperKettle

Perhaps most notably, the study found that men who had a less negative view of masculinity reported higher levels of mental positivity.

Masculinity is good.

tchrist

@jlliagre I'm too hungry to watch that safely right now. :)

@CowperKettle Except in the locker room, where it stinks.

People have a lot of weird ideas. Always had, always will.

CowperKettle

Living In An Airplane In The Woods For $370 A Month | Unlocked

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Walden 2.0

tchrist

> Older men, more than their younger counterparts, disagreed with the notion that masculinity “makes me inclined to be violent toward women.” On average, men over the age of 60 largely disagreed with this proposition, whereas men under the age of 40 were notably more inclined to agree with it.

See, that strikes me as completely insane. I don't understand it at all.

@CowperKettle As long as Mom does the laundry back home for you.

And I don't see protecting those who cannot protect themselves being anything other than basic human kindness and common decency. I don't see it as the sole domain of either sex. Why would it be?

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